grr

I made it better XD

yeah you actually did...

I've always wanted to literally put "fix it for me" in a question. In that one it actually makes it better XD

lol see dreams do come true.

@TARDISMaker you ever heard of blendervelvets.org? (seams to be a set of addons for the VSE)

:O

@David Wowie, nice!

@VRM Any good?

I wouldn't call it spectacular, but it certainly isn't bad.

lol, for that matter, what do you think of this one?

@gandalf3 :O :O

stackoverflow.blog/2018/04/26/…

^^

We are like stackoverflow these days. I see some spectacular snarks. While they are currently reserved for the worst offenders, there is a clear upward trend. I hope these changes bear fruit before we get a reputation for being cranky. Half the reason I only participate in the review queue in short and infrequent spurts is that I quickly loose patience with the idiotic questions I see. I stop before I show my frustration.

same here

Have to admit I have fallen prey for the rage quite a few times, been trying to improve lately

@GiantCowFilms you'll be happy. Ford will stop selling most of its cars.

Ehh, Ford was only ever good with its trucks and SUVs :)

ever is a strong word since they've been around for a while...

ok, so in recent years Ford's main selling point was their trucks and SUVs.

@GiantCowFilms part of that rubbed me the wrong way "especially women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups" I do not care if you are black or white, man woman, in some oppressed minority etc. If you write a lousy question, it will get DV and closed. Equally as true if that same group writes a good question, I'll UV it. If I know that answer, I might even answer it.

That is just how this site works, there is no racial prejudiced here (heck how are we even supposed to know who or what someone is. All we get is an avatar, a user name and a question.)

This question did not get closed and DVed because the OP is an oppressed hispanic woman. It got closed and DVed because there was no question.

I don't know. maybe someone out there goes searching to see if they can decipher a user's race, and then votes to close their post accordingly. Nobody does that!

Now if that does happen then that is a problem, and SE needs to do something to stop it.

But from what I've seen votes (DVs and CVs) are purely on the content. Bad questions, vs good answerable questions.

I have never not even once in over 4 years seen a single good post get down voted because of the OP's race, color, religion, etc.

YES new users can have a hard time with the site. True we (as established and regular users) sometimes do not make them feel welcome. Is there a problem here, yes. Is it only with the established users? I would say no. A site only has so many active users, and they just can't cope with the sheer volume of bad questions that come through.

After the Nth hundredth time we really just do not feel like adding a comment saying "we have no idea what is wrong, you need to add the details of X before we can even begin to guess."

There is a plethora of questions on the meta, and site metas about the site quality going down as the site grows. This issue of new users not being welcome is very much connected with the over all quality of sites degrading.

If we can "fix" new users asking BAD questions, then all the established users will be less worn out and be more friendly and willing to leave that helpful comment.

which in turn will fix the problem of new users not feeling welcome.

i wonder how many new users actually read the tour.

and i wonder if some individual SE sites would benefit from being able to tweak their points, privilege, and badge system for their audience.

Conversely we will never fix the continual decline of the sites' quality if we are only trying to be more "welcoming." At the end of the day we still have to deal with the same number of bad questions.

the documentation of blender and the quality and number of tutorials out there is continually improving, i see a big difference from when i started learning.

hopefully that will help.

@kimholder the question is two fold. #1 no idea how many actually read it. The bigger issue, is (at least on BSE) it stinks. I would not send anyone there to learn the site.

yes... it isn't specific enough.

@kimholder what happened to your diamond?

i felt too involved with my own project to spend the time i tend to spend when i am moderating. it was about my tendency to get too involved, really.

i was using moderating as a way to avoid work. which is hard on a small site like that, but i managed to do it.

waaiiitttt... you mean that you had less time, and actually stepped down? Most mods would just stay there inactive XD

yeah, well, in my case, i actually became a mod because i was replacing somebody who got fed up and left - the entire site, and all of SE, not just SX

and he warned me not to get too involved, because he knew me.

@kimholder I respect that. Glad you could move in a healthful direction.

i'd like to mod again someday. it's a good match for my actual work. we'll see how things go.

→ 2 messages moved to /blender/bin

@X-27 I wanted to keep all my text together.

That is ok, I completely understand the necessity for a good rant :)

its not so much a rant as a rebuttal.

fitting I started it with a ping to the cow :)

same difference.

@David I disagree with some of your points. In particular, 1) Even if a question gets closed/DV'd, there is absoultely no need to leave sarcastic comments. Some of the remarks made on SO and esp. Server Fault make me wince. Infact, I closed my server fault account I was so horrified with what they did to people. 2) I think getting closed as duplicate needs to feel less like users committed a crime. Finding dups, even as a power user of this site can be tricky, new users don't stand a chance.

3) There is something I call the SO meta affect. Basically, you ask a question on SO, get beat up for it, then take the issue to meta (because you happen to be a 10k+ network rep user who knows how to play the game), and suddenly everyone lovingly helps you. If they had the same attitude before you went to meta as afterwards, it would be fine.

I understand garbage questions need to get closed, but they need to be closed with respect. Also, I don't know how this affects minorities more.... I do know it really hits kids who are just getting into this stuff and don't know how to communicate that effectively, but really, really want help. I got SO question banned when I first used SO, because I was pretty clueless about the topic I was asking about (hence asking), and I was completely clueless about how to play the SO game.

That stung badly. Fortunately, I saw blender SE, I realized that there was a site I knew the topic for, and I could learn to stackexchange, so to speak. However, I still don't post on SO because I know every question is a huge risk and a huge challenge to get answered.

@GiantCowFilms whoa whoa whoa. You say you disagree with my points, then start off talking about something that I did not even bring up. If people are jerks/rude, that again is a separate issue then new users being welcome. SE already has rules about being nice.

Like I said "YES new users can have a hard time with the site." My point here was the blog post mixed two very different issues discrimination, and welcoming new users.

@David I agree, the discrimination thing was weird. I didn't see how that tied together.

It is a double edged problem. How to keep new users coming, and feel welcome, yet how to deal with the ever increasing stream of bad posts.

@GiantCowFilms after I posted that someone sent me a link to a meta SO question (with 159 UVs) that was about exactly this.

I don't know maybe change the "closed as a dup" so that it is not the same as all the other closed reasons. A dup is completely different then all the other. The dup is on topic, and maybe even a good question. All the rest are put succinctly bad questions.

and thus i have my only gold badge on SO...

39UVs I'm impressed.

answered by nick no less! :)

yeah, i guess i should have put the link.

@kimholder its ok I know how to find them ;)

it's good manners :)

that is a example of a good "noob" question. Stupidly simple. Yet a good question. clear, on topic and answerable.

@kimholder you were on SE 8 years ago? wow.

many things have changed...

see, i really am 50.

many things have changed. in 8 years. yeah A LOT.

8 years in "computer time" is like 80 human years :)

no kidding. wow 8 years ago I was messing around in action script.

and we all know where that is going...

@David I think we are actually mostly in agreement. I do feel that there is no excuse to develop an attitude about bad questions. Otherwise, your rebuttals are solid :P

@GiantCowFilms well you know something is up when you and I agree :)

That makes what the third time?

Lol

Did they remove comments from the SO blog, I don't see any.

Thoughts?

@GiantCowFilms I randomly found that before seeing the link in here. Good concept. I dont know about giving rep for "accepting a dup" but its at least looking in the right direction.

Not only did we agree, but had similar ideas. chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/44259324#44259324

@David That sort of inspired my thinking on this.

That and this post: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/366716/…

which kind of captures the mentality I wish to squash, that of overzealous aggressive duping.

@GiantCowFilms As far as a more SE-wide answer on discrimination, there's this meta post: meta.stackexchange.com/q/309513/357942

I'll be interested to see some data from SE on this, though.

I'm one of the only women on Space.se. Don't ask me how i know that, i can just tell. I guess there are all these little clues, and over time, yep, i'm pretty sure i'm the only regular contributor who's female.

It isn't an issue for me, but i gotta say, there is this default thing when you are in a group that has been marginalized in the past by another group, that you just go on your guard a little, you know? It's just instinct.

I've been treated very well, but i remain very aware of the situation.

maybe that's all this is, really.

@kimholder do you feel in general on SE that just because you are a woman you need to "be on guard"?

because if so then I am more unaware of things like this then I thought.

It doesn't come from SE, it comes from my past in general. Have a few experiences of discrimination > forever after if you see signs it could happen, you go on alert, just a little.

I can speak for myself, that I have not treated you, nor talked any differently with you because you are a woman.

and I would hope that it never happens on SE.

(or anywhere for that matter)

No, you haven't at all. But it doesn't matter. It's happened to me before. I know it could happen again. In that situation, i'm just a little less inclined to go out on a limb.

If people feel SE is less welcoming, it could be little more than having that same intuition that most people aren't like you. And so you just become a bit nervous, and instantly, the thing is less welcoming.

It might be helpful to be aware that it's a situation nobody can do anything about.