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22:11
too quiet.
I'm pretty well convinced that the exclamation point, which is the implicitly-unwrap-optional operator, in Swift is just a giant sign that says "I LOVE IT WHEN MY APP CRASHES!"
Other than example code where you're going to be passing literals to things, I can't see any reason to use it.
22:28
Cordova now supported by Visual Studio
22:43
@JeroenVannevel did you do Cordova?
No, I abandoned my attempt after the hassle you had to go through to set it all up
I have heard of it but never used it. however, I am researching different method of developing an app our company might need in the near future
Used Xamarin recently
considering that Xamarin supports Visual Studio (or the other way around) and I am quite comfortable with C# but I was still a little bit lost
@JeroenVannevel did you came up with a final choice that would like to share?
0
Q: Hangman in COBOL

rightfoldWhenever I learn a new programming language, I implement hangman in it. This time it's COBOL. identification division. program-id. hangman. data division. working-storage section. 01 state. 05 word pic A(100). 05 word-length pic 9(3). ...

What's Cordova exactly?
I went with Xamarin as well but due to other life constraints I wasn't able to get much out of it
It's basically HTML + CSS + JS to develop apps
Instead of C#/XAML, Java/XML, Swift/Whatever
22:47
Swift and WYSIWYG
You know... if writing an app once for all platforms really was the best solution for making really good apps, then it seems to me that this is what the company that just hired me would be doing.
@JeroenVannevel what is
Xamarin shows a lot of promise though, although I always felt a little wary about it. I can never shake the feeling it must be missing native options somewhere
Yes an no
I probably should spend a little bit more on it before I can give an opinion
Spending time on creating the same app on different platforms sounds like a lot of effort
Or, if you're a company, a lot of payroll.
22:51
Xamarin shakes some of them, but it's not exactly as they preach. You still need a Mac and Windows 8 and so an so to do the whole thing. I'd say Android is the only OS which you can make something for it using Xamarin straight away
The mac isn't very important though
Can't you write Xamarin.IOs on a windows pc?
@nhgrif Yeah. I am not gonna argue that each one of the separately developed ones going to ace and surely be better than something which is developed in a One-for-all env. but you know depends what you need
And yet, I just took a job which does contract work for mobile apps. You hire them, they develop Android/iOS app (and I think also Windows mobile).
@JeroenVannevel Unfortunately, no
I thought it was just the license you needed from a Mac
22:53
@JeroenVannevel Nah. You need a Mac to connect to it to be able to build it
Yeah
But they don't develop it once. There's a Ruby developer who does the backend, an iOS developer who does the iOS app, an Android developer who does the Android app, etc.
and to submit it to Apple Connect
And this is a very successfully, very profitable company...
easy: develop on windows, transfer to Mac when you want to build!
Company only needs one mac
22:54
Even android, you surely need a Ando phone at the end of the day. You can't test Bluetooth and all using the emulator
@JeroenVannevel Easier: You can develop and build Android apps on OS X. Don't need any Windows machines.
but what about the Windows Phone users?!
Although I think you can just develop on Mac with Xamarin Studio, no?
Who?
@JeroenVannevel Yeah. It's not too bad. I borrowed my bosses' old mac to start with but I mean everybody installs Xamarin thinking all I need is this env and i will have an app for Windows, Android and Mac in no time all tested in an emulators :)
at least I did. and couple of others I talked to
There isn't an iOS emulator.
22:55
so lets not generalise
@nhgrif There is an iPhone one but you can run it in a Mac not in Windows :D
It's not an emulator.
It's a simulator.
@JeroenVannevel Not sure. cuz I am not a Mac user after all. And you can't develop for Windows phone if you have Windows 7 so...
@Mehrad In my current job, I am an iOS/.NET/SQL developer. I have 3 apps on the iOS app store. In June, I am starting a new job as a senior iOS developer. I'm completely aware of the entirety of iOS development.
Ah right, WP requires Win8.1 Pro
@nhgrif Yes ? yes
22:57
A simulator and an emulator are different.
@nhgrif so we know who to go for when we get to the iOs part
A simulator only simulates the operating system, but uses all of the computer's resources (hard drive, RAM, processor, etc).
An emulator will also emulate the hardware.
You must test your app on an actual iOS device before you can even pretend to have any amount of confidence that it actually works right.
@nhgrif Xamarin offers a cloud testing as well which tests your app against 400 odd different phones if I remember the numbers right
pretty sure you already know about it
Yeah, that's common.
I don't know about Xamarin.
but yeah. you won't serve the food without tasting it.
23:00
Where I work, they have a build server. Whenever you push a commit, it automatically builds the app on a zillion different actual devices and then runs a really in-depth UI test on all of the devices.
I think for iOS they have every iOS device going back to the 4s. I don't know (or necessarily particularly care) what they have for Android. Android is kind of a pain to keep up with all the different devices.
it's a luxury to have an access to zillion different devices though, cuz you still need to pay an arm and a leg to get it tested on 100 devices with Xamarin.
Yeah. There's "a zillion" at the build server. But there's also a selection of different devices I'll have immediate access to for actually playing around and testing.
Plus, they have an enterprise account, so I think that's unlimited Apple device registrations.
@nhgrif pain is just an starter. There is a problem with Android called different APIs :) and if you're thinking backward and forward compatibility, forget about it
100 is still large enough to encompass the lot
Android development is horrible with those APIs
23:04
So making a decision to which API to start your app with is an life or death one :)
I couldn't tell you what version I'm developing now even if I wanted to
@Quill exactly.
as you see the most are on 3db range
I think I took level 16 in the project creation screen, but I'm using some v4 support libraries. No clue why they decided on a different versioning system for that
I'm going to get that on a canvas
And fortunately, with iOS you just have to worry about iOS version.
and iOS users tend to adopt the new updates quickly, with a really high rate.
23:06
@JeroenVannevel When I started, i hoped into Android room and asked the prime question of which API should I start cuz Bluetooth doesn't support one version higher and one lower of itself and they all laughed and said yeah yeah, we all been there :D
The other day, I helped my parents migrate from iPhone 5 to 6/6+ and my mother was still on iOS 6
She refused to update her iPhone for two years
@Mehrad …
ಠ_ಠ
@Quill that's like… unsupportedly old
@bjb568 I didn't say it's new my friend :)
by the way nice talking to you man/feman. don't think I have seen this ID in here in the past :) (I am not a regular though)
… I should use message replies
@bjb568 Oops I read the wrong message my bad
23:10
In other news, i haz question on front page
@bjb568 hahah... yes
Oh, you're the markdown guy
I noped out of there
:P
:P
Hey, it's only my third md question.
@Quill Government should pull the tax plug for the people on old phones such as the one they did with the anti vaccination people :P
it's an encouragement to upgrade right :)
@bjb568 Pimp your question here. somebody might know something about it
Paste the link I mean :)
1
Q: Markdown to HTML, yet again

bjb568String.prototype.replaceAll = function(find, replace) { if (typeof find == 'string') return this.split(find).join(replace); var t = this, i, j; while (typeof(i = find.shift()) == 'string' && typeof(j = replace.shift()) == 'string') t = t.replaceAll(i || '', j || ''); return t; }; ...

23:13
anybody can paste the link :P
Yep. not me. I don't even know what Markdown means. The only thing I have heard so far is markup
I wonder what I'd title my fourth markdown question…
@Mehrad It's the format of styling you use to post question on SE
@bjb568 Markdown the forth
@bjb568 'I'm sorry everybody, I really am'
3
23:14
:p
@Quill star star star
2
@Quill thnx
I'll say hello to @sᴉɔuɐɹɥԀ and get back to my I2C
Hey @Mehrad :)
@sᴉɔuɐɹɥԀ Hope you're doing great man
Not bad, not bad. Yourself?
23:19
Yep, I am good to. Can see that you racked up 1K rep on seasoned advice :O
killing it in all the branches
Believe it or not lol. Their voting is better than SO. I keep getting random +1s on an answer about canning soup. Go figure
0
Q: testing fibonacci conjecture

marmeladze The sequence of Fibonacci numbers is defined as F1 = 1, Fn = Fn−2 + Fn−1. It has been conjectured that for any Fibonacci number F, F2 + 41 is composite. ... [T]ask is to either prove the conjecture to be true or find a counter-example that demonstrates it is false. source here i...

@sᴉɔuɐɹɥԀ Not to generalize again but every voting is better than SO is like.
@all, is Python worth learning?
23:22
@Quill Yes, even if you don't use it
it'll come handy sometime sooner or later
I've been meaning to get a Raspberry Pi 2 for a while, which runs Python, so I've considered it, but I'm tossing up between Java and Python
0
Q: Bills and Coin Denomination Program

AlexI am currently in an intro C++ programming class. We have an assignment where we have to convert a dollar and cents amount, say $192.89, to bills and coins using the least amount of both. Below is the program I have written and everything works, however, when I enter a value $XXX.89 it always tru...

Hey guys, I have a question. To tie a REST API for a Point of Sale(POS) System to a front end application requires a database?
it uses JSON
@SeanParsons, try
23:54
You know what's irritating?
@nhgrif Bad grammar on SE questions?
Downvote an answer, explain in a comment the problem with the answer, answerer replies "I suggest you try it and remove your erroneous vote." when... if they'd just try their own answer themselves, they'd see that they're wrong.
@nhgrif Oh ... That too
What's very interesting however is that there is a user with 29k rep on SO asking several fairly rudimentary Swift questions.
@nhgrif Just because someone has 29k reputation, doesn't make them exempt from stupidity, also, he may have points for Java or something and be branching into Swift.

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