The 2nd Monitor

Mat's Mug

22:06

But this is only the beta version of code review right? Could someone propose a change where understanding other's people code would be a legal question to ask on here? — committedandroider 31 mins ago

well that's interesting

SirPython

Could someone do that?

Mat's Mug

Yes! Let's downvote some meta!!

SirPython

How long until Code Review is out of beta?

Phrancis

~~6-8 weeks~~ 6-8 months, with luck

SirPython

Wow.

Has Code Review been "up"(public beta) for a while?

Phrancis

22:09

Give you plenty of time to build up some rep so you have good privileges when the requirements change :)

Mat's Mug

we're already technically out of beta -- and that ^^^

Phrancis

@SirPython 4 years or so?

SirPython

Wow - I didn't know it took such a long time.

Phrancis

Sep 17 '14 at 0:02, by Simon André Forsberg

Beta day #1337 has started

Mat's Mug

but only really flying for a little bit more than a year

200_success

22:10

We're basically waiting for a website design. Surely $40 million could get some more website designers?

4

rolfl

What's that website where you paste wtf code for ridicule?

Mat's Mug

codecrap?

nhgrif

I prefer prefix on for loop update statements rather than postfix

rolfl

@Mat'sMug that's the one, thanks.

SirPython

@200_success Is that how much it will cost to for a new website design?

Phrancis

22:13

lol

200_success

Well, I'm not suggesting that they blow all of it on a design for CR.

SirPython

How does SE get money to pay for designers, anyway?

nhgrif

@Phrancis This isn't entirely true...

31 mins ago, by Phrancis

Then while(quot > 0) indicates that the program expects the colNum to be greater than 0

200_success

Most SE revenue comes from [careers.stackoverflow.com]. Some of it comes from ads.

Phrancis

Over-simplification, eh?

SirPython

22:15

Thanks, @200_success

nhgrif

while(quote > 0) only indicates that the loop body should only execute if quote > 0 returns true, and should continue to execute until it returns false.

Phrancis

@nhgrif Ahhh ok, that makes a lot of sense

nhgrif

In fact, while(quote > 0) indicates that the program expects quot to sometimes be 0 or less.

Otherwise, that's an infinite loop.

200_success

Stack Overflow also has sponsored tags.

SirPython

Like the Google Chrome ones?

Phrancis

22:17

I would guess that the massive amount of traffic from Google to SO may somehow generate revenue

200_success

22

Q: What benefits does a sponsor gain from a sponsored tag?

Stack Overflow has sponsored tags. These tags have a logo of their relevant company or sponsor, but the benefit to said sponsor is unclear to me. There is additional brand recognition, sure, and I've read here that the sponsor "owns the tag", but what does that mean, ultimately? Do sponsors get ...

rolfl

@200_success / @Jamal / @All - I have heavily revised this meta answer: meta.codereview.stackexchange.com/a/1295/31503 please review it.

SirPython

Will all pro-tem moderators lose their moderator status once the site is out of public beta?

Mat's Mug

@SirPython there will be elections

then they will go from "pro-tem" to "elected"

nhgrif

I still absolutely abhor this line of reasoning:

> If the reviewer has questions like "why are you doing it this way?" then the developer is right there to give the appropriate answer.

In an actual code review, yes. On CodeReview.StackExchange.com? Maybe.

Moreover, for most reviews I've seen, some back and forth questioning with the code's author is actually unnecessary. It happens sometimes, yes.

But if some "why are you doing it this way?" questions are necessary and cannot be answered, can't the question be closed as unclear?

rolfl

22:22

It happens, but it is not the purpose of the review.

and yes, it can be closed as unclear.... but a comment with: please expand on why you do XXX

would allow the asker to edit, and get reopened.

nhgrif

Yes. But those questions go unanswered sometimes even with the person who posted the question actually is the author. And that's my primary objection to that line of reasoning for the rule.

And note, I'm not 100% against the rule.

rolfl

The purpose of a code review is for a programmer to sit with the reviewer, and for the reviewer to approve or suggest improvements, for the code.

If the reviewer needs more information before 'passing judgement', then he gets to ask the programmer.

nhgrif

But basically, this line part of logic behind this rule is "Questions for which the asker isn't the author could be unclear and the asker is incapable of clarifying because he is not the answer tend to be unclear." And the end result of this line of reasoning is that questions which are unclear should be closed.

rolfl

A good programmer will have it all ready.

nhgrif

I'm not saying that we should change the rule in question. I'm saying that this line of reasoning shouldn't be part of the justification for the rule.

For one, it leads to people like me saying "Well, I didn't write this, but I can answer any question of clarification about it", and for two, it minimizes the closing as unclear what you're asking reason.

That the question is asked clearly seems a far more important consideration than whether or not the asker and the author are one in the same.

rolfl

22:27

I am OK with your line of reasoning, let me think of a way to express it... 2 minutes...

SirPython

This is a very fiery debate :-)

syb0rg

If someone comes in here named @Katie, can you guys tell her to ping me?

It's sorta important

SirPython

Of course.

Captain Obvious

0

Q: Just HOW evil is eval? And exec? Python

I have read through a lot of material on the evils of eval and exec. However, I'm NOT taking any user input. I have a structure like this: _dict = { name1: { 'units':'[x["value"] for x in soup.find_all("table",class_="variations")[0].find_all("option")]', 'unit_of_measure': ...

python

syb0rg

But I'm too busy to linger for long

@SirPython Thanks!

nhgrif

22:29

I think the "Moral/Politeness" section is perfectly valid. And while I think the "Legal" section is ultimately not our responsibility (as a community or as moderators) to police, I think it's appropriate to remain in that answer and as something to explain to people why this rule exist (although the legal reasons are only a tertiary side effect of the other good reason the rule exists).

Mat's Mug

@CaptainObvious example code?

SirPython

@CaptainObvious Is this kind of question on-topic - a question asking for preferences on a specific function/bit of code?

Mat's Mug

How about you show us the real deal? ;) "Example code" that's there just to make a point, isn't really asking to be reviewed - that's off-topic for this site. Cheers! — Mat's Mug 55 secs ago

rolfl

> In Code Review, as an online resource, in a Q&A format, the expectation is that the text describing the code should explain why the code does things the way it does. Code that is just dumped without an explanation is, in Code Review terms, "unclear", and is likely to be closed as "Unclear what you are asking."

^^^ @nhgrif - I edited a few things, but how about that part?

nhgrif

That's good. We should be closing these as unclear... because unclear is bigger problem than unowned.

Now my final suggestion would be moving the "Moral/Politeness" section to the top.

Phrancis

22:34

> However, I'm NOT taking any user input.

KTHXBAI

2

nhgrif

It's also important to consider that "I don't know why, I just copy&pasted from SO and it worked." is a real answer that real programmers give in real code reviews to the question "Why did you do this like this?" It's not a good one, but it is very much a real answer...

rolfl

anyone presenting code to me in a review and they can't explain why it works, would get severely reprimanded IRL.

nhgrif

Yeah. I'm not saying it's a good answer... but it is an answer.

rolfl

> You are about to check in code to application XYZ and YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT DOES?????

2

nhgrif

In every single profession there are people who are bad at their jobs.

rolfl

22:37

copy/paste is fine just so long as you know what it does, and why you are doing it. That's the part where you go from the author to the maintainer.

nhgrif

Sometimes, when my girlfriend's 4-year-old son is playing a game on the iPad and it is a crappy game full of bugs, when he asks me why it doesn't work, I sometimes just tell him "Well, there are people in this world who aren't as good at their job as me."

7

Mat's Mug

@nhgrif lol

SirPython

And I bet those people got payed a lot for that crappy game.

nhgrif

Maybe.

I don't think there are that many examples of people getting extraordinarily rich off the app store.

And by people, I mean individual programmers.

Mat's Mug

2048?

Phrancis

22:40

@SirPython Actually, maybe not. It's not as hard to publish an app as you would imagine. A one or two person developed app I don't imagine is that uncommon

nhgrif

Does 2048 have ads even?

Phrancis

Simon made and published an Android app all by himself

SirPython

Wow

That's pretty cool.

nhgrif

I mean, outside of Flappy Bird, what game has become super-ultra-mega-popular on a mobile devices that wasn't developed by a team of some sort of size?

SirPython

How many people was 2048 developed by?

Mat's Mug

22:42

1

Phrancis

20

Q: Advanced and Detailed Minesweeper Probabilities

In an earlier question, I showed my code for calculating the mine probability for each and every field in a Minesweeper board. But it doesn't stop there. In that very same Minesweeper Analyze project, there is also an algorithm for calculating the probability of each and every number for each and...

java algorithm combinatorics minesweeper

Mat's Mug

and then cloned by 2 million

nhgrif

But what sort of income does it make? Does it have ads? I don't remember paying for it.

And yes, tons of people made copies of it, so that waters down anyone's chances of making a lot individually.

SirPython

But didn't the developer of 2048 just copy 1024 from the Android/Apple store?

nhgrif

Also... it's worth noting that at work, I individually develop and maintain an iOS ERP app.

Mat's Mug

22:43

@nhgrif a small little banner at the bottom that's not even spanning full width

Phrancis

Personally, I would take a small add over endless micro-purchases

SirPython

I agree.

Phrancis

I think micro-purchases is how a lot of apps bring revenue... Think Farmville and others.

nhgrif

Rovio (Angry Birds, etc) reported 156 million Euros revenue in 2013.

They have 800 employees.

SirPython

I totally forgot about Angry Birds.

Phrancis

22:45

I bet Fruit Ninja made a pretty penny too.

nhgrif

Rovio has 23 games.

Plus, they've now got TONS of merchandise.

SirPython

I haven't seen any FizzBuzz apps on the app stores...

nhgrif

There will probably be an Angry Birds movie soon.

There are lots of Angry Birds cartoons.

Phrancis

@SirPython noooooooo-more-fizzbuzz

nhgrif

But again, 800 employees. They're all well paid, I'm sure... but this is more like a regular software development company--they just happen to make mobile games.

syb0rg

22:48

My professor is telling the class to use the compilation option -Wall -ansi -std=c++11 for our latest project

But I don't think he realizes that -std=c++11 is overriding -ansi

nhgrif

This isn't one guy getting rich off one game that he made in a month (Flappy Bird)

syb0rg

And therefore that flag is useless

SirPython

@syb0rg Hahahaha!

nhgrif

Maybe it's extra credit for pointing it out.

SirPython

I've never tried using -Wall before, what does it do?

syb0rg

22:49

I just emailed him about it, pointing to the docs: gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/C-Dialect-Options.html

@SirPython Enables all warnings

@nhgrif Ohhh, I should try to get that out of him! haha

SirPython

Or you could blackmail him.

syb0rg

I don't want him to hate me for the rest of the semester lol

SirPython

That didn't make any sense...

Mat's Mug

TTQW

Phrancis

WEEKEND!

Hosch250

23:02

Nice for you.

Captain Obvious

2

Q: Unit testing a click event with asynchronous content

I'm writing unit tests for a web application that has quite a lot of UI interactions. I would like some feedback regarding on how to handle click events with asynchronous code. My goal here is to simluate users interacting with the page. That's why I'm triggering events rather than making funct...

javascript jquery unit-testing

bazola

hey @nhgrif, I was considering the advice that you gave me on my unit testing question. Of course it is true that ideally the unit test would cover every single combination of tiles.. but how would the unit test know how many matches to expect for each combination? Or are you suggesting that I output what the combination was, and the number of matches that were found, and then manually check the results?

SirPython

23:17

TTGDSE See you guys later!

nhgrif

> "for simplicity and quick implementation, I often prefer recursions to loops etc etc."

uh wut

@bazola I'm not sure

bazola

@nhgrif its kind of a chicken and egg thing, because I would want to run the generated combination through the match evaluator to see how many matches there should be, but that is the thing i am unit testing in the first place

200_success

Sure, recursive formulations are often simpler than iterative ones.

overexchange

@200_success hai

how are you?

200_success

Hi

syb0rg

23:24

At the sacrifice of speed

200_success

and the possibility of stack overflow.

overexchange

after a gap, i resumed my work on cs 61B, with game tree

I would need your comments on my homeworks, based on your convenience, going further

one of them is posted just now.

@200_success thank you, thank you so much

@200_success i had one specific query wrt to my learning exercise to improve my programming

can i ask?

nhgrif

So... at work, we develop .NET application, and in 2013 they hired me, and since then, I've added an iOS application to our products. Our sister company builds machines... and as such, have programmers who write the software for the machines. The programmer in the office with me recently got moved from working on our software to working on their software.

200_success

You can ask, though I may or may not have an answer.

(I also need to leave soon.)

Captain Obvious

1

Q: Does this Tic-Tac-Toe game follow abstraction and encapsulation?

This below program will be further enhanced for TicTacToe game with Human and Computer as players. Currently this program is written for choosing best move for a given grid position. package project2.tictactoe; enum TicTacToe{ X, O, NULL; @Override public String toString(){ ...

java oop tic-tac-toe ai

bazola

23:32

@overexchange i don't have time to write up a full answer, but have you considered creating a row or column class? I find that doing so can greatly simplify the logic for grid based games

nhgrif

He and one of their other developers are the only two programmers between the companies that prefer Linux... and when they started working together, they found out they use different Linux flavors... and there have been insults mentioned behind each others backs...

overexchange

@bazola i could not realise the simplicity with your approach, can u elaborate with an answer in the query?

nhgrif

I think a row or column class isn't necessarily right. I like the approach that iOS uses for table and collection views.

bazola

@overexchange if i get some time over the weekend I will try to write something up

overexchange

@200_success my query is, am going thru, cs 61B course to improve my programming skills in OOPS paradigm and learning Java multi threading concepts from this link. With these skills, Do I add any value as a Java programmer in a software product dev company? from-scratch development?

@bazola please.. with some good hints.

bazola

23:41

@overexchange the basic idea is that it is better abstraction. rather than saying board[i][j], the board object could contain an array of row or column objects

overexchange

@bazola my definition of abstration is: "Abstraction is more about taking common functionality out of multiple places and putting it into a single common place instead and using inheritance (or something similar) to have that common functionality refer to the single class" what is your's?

bazola

from dictionary.com: "the act of considering something as a general quality or characteristic, apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances"

overexchange

ya this definition looks similar to mine

so based on this definition, how do I think of abstraction when i write a single class TicTacToeGame in my program?

bazola

so rather than thinking about the point on the board in terms of its x and y coordinates, you are thinking about it in terms of what row or column it is in. a side benefit of this is that you could pass those rows around to other objects. i realize this is not probably necessary for a basic tic-tac-toe game, but it still might be useful to simplify your logic

is it a requirement that there only be one class?

overexchange

no there is no such req

bazola

23:50

i would suggest that the TicTacToe program should have a Game class that would contain things such as Player objects and the Board object

overexchange

@bazola my first question would be, what do u see in my TicTacToeGame program, when i say abstraction may be i will post this in my query

Captain Obvious

0

Q: How to simplify my conditional statement

I am trying to see if I can simplified some of my codes. It looks messy now. I have something like if (month === 11) { month = 0; year ++; time(year, month + 1); } else if (month === 0) { time(year, month + 1); } else { time(year, month + 2); } Basically, I...

javascript datetime

bazola

@overexchange not sure exactly what you mean, but i will try to post an answer to your actual question if i can

overexchange

@bazola With my given program in query, What would you check in my program, if i ask you, Does this program follow abstraction?

Because am still not clear with word abstraction, when such single class programs are written, based on my definition of abstraction given above

bazola

the answer that someone posted explains it pretty well i think, but if i have time I will take a crack at it. about to head out though

overexchange

23:59

sure

Duga

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