The 2nd Monitor

nhgrif

22:00

My highest upvoted answer has 27 upvotes. It's a php question.

My second highest, out of 100+ answers to Objective-C questions, has 17 upvotes.

That question got that many in 6 hours.

And my highest upvoted Objective-C answer isn't even the highest upvoted Objective-C answer on that question, nor is mine marked correct.

How am I the "de facto" Objective-C expert?

Phrancis

Seems obvious to me :)

nhgrif

My votes per answer are lower than basically everyone on that page.

So obviously, I write worse answer... just I write tons of them.

Phrancis

Well, here is the way I see it. The votes per question of pretty much everyone in the chat room are likely higher. Because exposure. If you write an answer that you feel improves the code tremendously, there is nothing wrong with posting it here.

I feel 200_success probably posted this because it was a new user and a very good review, and wanted to encourage that user to review more.

I understand you may not feel that it's fair, and why. But do you feel it's more important for the CR community to grow and new users to feel appreciated?

Anyways, TTQW :)

outoftime

@Malachi em

@Malachi my answer was first and it is not going to be perfect, but there present idea of using preprocessed values to increase perfomance

Simon André Forsberg

22:27

@nhgrif I really think you are underestimating yourself.

Captain Obvious

0

Q: What is this type of method, and what are it's uses? (Ruby)

I'm currently working on the Ruby problems at TestFirst.org. Feeling stumped, I did a search and found this answer to a question: Proper capitalization for book titles? I'm still fairly new and have not seen the following method naming convention before: def title=(title) @title = titlieze(t...

ruby

Simon André Forsberg

You feel that the community doesn't care about you because you don't get so many votes. My advice is: Don't look at the votes. It is not possible to control how people are voting. It is not really possible to explain why people are voting as they do either.

Just because your answers are not voted as much as you would like them to, doesn't mean that your answers does not add important value to the site.

That might be easy to say for me, being one of the users with the most average score per answer, but that is what I believe.

With that said, TTGTB

rolfl

Hey, & bye Simon

Right, catching up.... what's up, doc?

nhgrif

22:42

@SimonAndréForsberg I've got an app that opens and closes connections to a server numerous times per second. It's not a problem to open and close... especially in anything turn based.

In terms of solving the problem of knowing whose turn it is, that's solved with polling.

bazola

@nhgrif Sorry you don't feel appreciated. Wish I could upvote your answers equal to the amount that they have helped me! (many, many times)

nhgrif

And actually, from the standpoint of how Objective-C handles these streams, there's very good reason for opening and closing all the time (considering the actual opening and close takes almost no time at all especially in the world of a turn-based game)

But with Objective-C, we use stream delegates to handle responses. The best solution would be to instantiate a new object that handle each stream connection and then dealloc (let ARC do it) when the connection is done... so each object handles one and only one request and response from the server.

Otherwise, it's extraordinarily easily for a little bit of server lag on the first request to end up with the results returned in the "wrong" order and that can make things difficult to sort out.

For what it's worth, I spent all of August and a lot of September working on an app that makes lots of TCP/IP connections.

bazola

its crazy that it can open and close connections multiple times a second

nhgrif

On a single thread.

And now realize that in my particular app, every connection is opened and closed on its own thread.

rolfl

@nhgrif - let's compare.... you have 7625 rep and 145 answers.... at 52.6 rep per answer
I have .... 40448 rep and 703 answers ... at 57.5 rep per answer.

Sorry, I have been making dinner for the kids too ... ;-)

Now, I have this SEDE query too:

data.stackexchange.com/codereview/query/222581/…

^^^ yours

vvv mine

data.stackexchange.com/codereview/query/222581/…

nhgrif

22:53

I actually don't care. I was mainly pointing out that I feel like I don't get many votes because I'm not particularly concerned about how the community feels about me. This conversation got started when duck suggested I not "run off" a user who feels the urge to edit several month old posts for the sake of nothing but political correctness.

rolfl

It is apparent, to me at least, that my 'rolling average is consistently higher than yours if you scroll to the bottom.... but, I attribute that to some recent high-scorers.

nhgrif

I also don't get those high-scorers.

rolfl

In general your answers for an iOS expert, are consistent with mine, as a 'Java expert.

nhgrif

Outside of my half-joke half-serious answer to a really inflamatory php question.

rolfl

Those high scorers of mine, as it happens, are not Java answers either.

I lie, it seems, where are my LOLCODE, and C# answers.... they are in there somewhere.

It is those 'for kicks' answers that have boosed my averages.

In general I agree, that voting has reduced on CR in the past 4 or so months.

nhgrif

22:56

Ah man... where'd Simon go? I was trying to talk to Simon & Bazola about codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/63769/…

rolfl

That is the one point I want to make, is that, unless you pimp your answers, you can only expect a couple of votes, or a hot question.

nhgrif

I post my answers in here regularly.

But I don't actually care.

rolfl

I do care... it irks me that I have an answer with a zero score... ;-)

nhgrif

I'm just saying, if the community doesn't go out of its way to care about me (without me going out of my way), I don't feel the need to go out of my way too particularly much to care about the community.

Dan Lyons

I've had accepted answers with a zero score :P

rolfl

22:59

I am also keen to get back to Emily... and the discussion around her edits.

(oh, and for those folks who are going to dig in to my profile to upvote answers ..... I am at max today .... save it for later ... ;-)

nhgrif

Using "he" is beyond perfectly acceptable as a gender neutral pronoun in Academic papers, and as such, should also be perfectly acceptable here.

Even if it's not "perfectly acceptable", I don't think it should be considered "unacceptable", certainly not to the point that it requires an edit for that reason alone.

rolfl

UI am just scanning her edit activity here.

RubberDuck

As a man, I find those edits appropriate and that remark sexist^^^

Academia is steeped in ages old sexism.

I've actually made an effort not to say "Mr. Maintainer" since Emily brought it to my attention.

So, my question is, "Is she leaving other issues unaddressed?"

If that's the only edit and there are issues left unaddressed, then there's a problem.

nhgrif

I'm not saying we should use "he" and "he" only.

I'm saying "he" is acceptable. "She" or "they" are acceptable too.

"He" is acceptable to the point that editing my post to change that is wrong, particularly if that is the only change.

"Mr. Maintainer" is different. You're saying "Mr" when you could be gender neutral and say "the maintainer".

But the fact of the matter is, no matter how it's been casually used, "they" is not universally accepted as a singular pronoun. There's isn't a gender neutral singular pronoun in the English language. So we use "he" (or "she").

RubberDuck

Yes. That's true and I've been trying to make the switch, but I disagree that those edits are wrong if nothing else is changed.

rolfl

23:07

You know what, @nhgrif - I just don't see any pattern of going through and editing a bunch of posts for PC value.

nhgrif

I'm not saying that all she's doing.

rolfl

codereview.stackexchange.com/users/36120/…

nhgrif

I've seen it twice though. I said nothing the first time.

rolfl

^^^ I think those may just be the only two times....

nhgrif

The second time was on my post from August 17th. Last activity was on August 18th. She edited it today to change "he" to "they" and I rolled it back (it's my post).

rolfl

23:08

she called a he a she.... and was corrected....

nhgrif

But my point isn't really even about what's correct.

rolfl

Out of interest, I can't see that activity on your posts.... I wonder if there's a UI bug.

nhgrif

My point is that "he" isn't so incorrect that it requires editing just to fix that. We're not supposed to edit just for minor changes. For example, an edit that changes a typo of "teh" to "the" would be frowned upon as it bumps the post for a very minor and very unnecessary edit.

meta.codereview.stackexchange.com/posts/2309/revisions

rolfl

Oh, I am looking at main site, stupid me.

nhgrif

She may have more edits in meta.

RubberDuck

23:11

I don't consider it a minor change. It obviously is an issue for some women and changing it certainly will make some women feel more comfortable here.

If we can be more welcoming, why not?

rolfl

meta.codereview.stackexchange.com/users/36120/…

nhgrif

Duck, if you want to use "they" rather than "he," you're welcome to.

rolfl

OK, this makes sense, there are two places she has made edits.

mjolka

@RubberDuck s/women/people/g

nhgrif

But as using "he" or "she" or "they" wouldn't be wrong, then editing from one to the other would be an invalid/minor edit.

Dan Lyons

23:13

yay finally got my virtualbox vm to begin installing win 10 instead of hanging on boot

nhgrif

I'm not editing anyone's "they" to "he" because the plural/singular is wrong.

rolfl

Oh, I see the beginnings of a ELU search/question

nhgrif

So no one should be editing my "he" to "they" because they've got this idea that it's sexist--it's not, it's just a construct of a language until someone comes up with a singular, gender neutral pronoun for English.

mjolka

@DanLyons did you see this? reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/2i10fh/…

Dan Lyons

ya

I think someone linked either that post or a similar one yesterday

rolfl

23:15

139

Q: Is there a correct gender-neutral, singular pronoun ("his" versus "her" versus "their")?

Is there a pronoun I can use as a gender-neutral pronoun? Each student should save his questions until the end. Each student should save her questions until the end.

word-choice possessive personal-pronouns singular-they gender-neutral

Dan Lyons

given the kinds of hacks some apps have done on Windows, I can't say I'm surprised

mjolka

ah. the joys of different time zones

RubberDuck

Ok. This one I consider invalid because it left bad grammar after the change. Not to mention the note that was left. meta.codereview.stackexchange.com/revisions/2309/2

Dan Lyons

heh that's amusing

a reddit post linking to a page with an image of another reddit post

nhgrif

Yea, I didn't actually notice that... "they has". I just rolled it back. Didn't read the complete sentences with her changes.

rolfl

23:16

they have would be more correct.

nhgrif

She made the same note for her other edit where she was just editing to change the pronouns "not everyone is male" or something

No, "that developer has" would be correct if you really are that sensitive.

rolfl

I am going to use the analogy that using the gender-neutral they is like me using colour instead of color.

Captain Obvious

0

Q: Python: Tkinter using class and _init_

I am new to Python. I created a simple program that displays 28 numbers on the screen. Currently, nothing happens when you click on the numbers. Eventually, I want the numbers to disappear on click. Also, when you click on a '5', you get 5 points. I would like to make this multiplayer too where t...

python tkinter

nhgrif

To me, there's not a gender neutral singular pronoun, so either use "he" (or "she") and realize it's not actually sexist, or use a noun.

rolfl

Going through and 'correcting' a person's "British" spelling to "American" spelling would be wrong.

I am actually goign to diasgree with you factually on that one. "they" Is a perfectly acceptable gender-neutral singular pronoun

nhgrif

23:19

I've never been offended by someone using "she" as their gender neutral singular pronoun.

I'll agree that it's acceptable, but it's not more acceptable than "he" or "she".

rolfl

If anyone wants to disagree with me, they can take it out back and we can fight over it.

nhgrif

Because whether or not it's actually singular it's agreed upon.

rolfl

The use of 'he' has some precedent. 'she' not so much (in English, in other languages it does), but I will go so far as to say that it is just as awkward to use 'he' as it is to use 'they'.

as a gender-neutral pronoun

nhgrif

And that's fair enough.

But that proves my point that "he" shouldn't be edited into "they".

One isn't wholly more correct than the other.

rolfl

So, I am not going to say that we must fix all the usages of one vs the other....

but, just like you feel strongly about things, so can others.

nhgrif

23:23

I've seen people use "she" as their gender neutral singular pronoun plenty. Never been offended, and it never even crossed my mind that they should be corrected.

rolfl

Now, if only I can get all those pesky Americans to call it Aluminium.

6 mins ago, by rolfl

Going through and 'correcting' a person's "British" spelling to "American" spelling would be wrong.

7 mins ago, by rolfl

I am going to use the analogy that using the gender-neutral they is like me using colour instead of color.

3 mins ago, by nhgrif

But that proves my point that "he" shouldn't be edited into "they".

I think we agree on this.

nhgrif

We do.

I'm conscious of the fact that there are others reading the conversation beyond you and I.

Phrancis

(lurks)

rolfl

Hey, it's as much about me, as a moderator, forming strategies to deal with things, as it is about a couple of people bantering about political correctness, and so on.

mjolka

lurking intensifies

Jamal

23:27

@rolfl Must... not... edit...

rolfl

What this boils down to, is that, as much as Emily may feel offended by 'he', that she can cause as much offense by editing it out of other people's posts, because they come from a culture/background where 'he' is perfectly acceptable.

The sensitivity has to go both ways,.

and, as a moderator, at some point, I will have to confront her about that... ;-)

and do it in a way that is sensitive, and .... effective, and does not cause unnecessary ... damage.

nhgrif

I'm not even necessarily offended, just slightly annoyed. What bugs me the most is that the post is from the middle of August. Hadn't been touched since August 18th, but then gets a bump today to change "he has" into ... "they has".

rolfl

Now, as a South African, male, 'old man', that does not come easily.

@nhgrif It measn she has read it, though.

nhgrif

And to me, using "they" as a singular probably looks as wrong as using "he" for gender neutral to her.

rolfl

People don't fix things they don't care to read.... it was important enough, and valuable enough, to matter to her.

nhgrif

23:30

The problem is though that she may not realize I'm being gender neutral.

And if she's going to make these edits, I think she should edit them into nouns.

from "he has" to "the developer has" (in this context)

rolfl

or that she feels she does know, but wants to make sure your post does not offend some other person in the future who reads your post

nhgrif

The fact that "they has" is wrong is at least part of why I have trouble seeing "they" has a singular.

rolfl

"they have" would be correct English

even for the Singular.

nhgrif

"developer has" <-> "developers have" .... "he has" <-> "they have"

rolfl

I have something to say.

not I has something to say.

nhgrif

23:33

Hmm, that's a good point... but that's first person pronoun.

rolfl

So is "they" ... ;-)

nhgrif

He and they are third person.

We is first person.

Or, us

rolfl

meh, whatever....

nhgrif

They is third person.

Jamal

If anyone has ever noticed before, I do remove "guys" from posts. I mainly do that because it sounds kinda informal, but that's just me.

nhgrif

23:34

"you" is 2nd person plural and singular.

Phrancis

HAI GUYS LOL @JAMAL

nhgrif

"guys" is far more gender specific then "he"

As is "Mr. Maintainer" when we can say "the maintainer"

Phrancis

Agreed

rolfl

English is hard enough, but the right way (whatever the terminology), is "...they have...". "When a person gets the flu they have a virus".

Jamal

@Phrancis What does that do in LOLCODE? :P

Phrancis

23:36

NOTHING LOL

nhgrif

Which is fine, rolfl, but I might just as likely say "When a person gets the flu, he has a virus."

rolfl

Yes, we agree on that ^^^^

nhgrif

"One who has a flu has a virus."

Phrancis

"When a person gets the flu, he or she has a virus."

rolfl

you were asking whether it is "they have", or 'they has"

nhgrif

23:36

No, I wasn't asking.

I know "they have" is correct.

rolfl

OK, then... we move on.

nhgrif

But "have" isn't correct for any other 3rd person singular pronoun or any nouns.

Which is why I don't quite see "they" as an acceptable singular pronoun.

rolfl

You're more educated in those language terminologies than I am... I would not know.

nhgrif

But as I said, we can use a noun if we're really worried about being that perfectly politically correct.

rolfl

I never had to consciously learn that... being a native English speaker ;-)

nhgrif

23:38

I'm a native English speaker as well.

rolfl

well, then you're an educated one in more than just programming ;-)

I hated English as a subject.

and I failed Latin.... damn those terminologies.

nhgrif

Grammatical person

Grammatical person, in linguistics, is the grammatical distinction between deictic references to participant(s) in an event; typically the distinction is between the speaker, the addressee, and others. Grammatical person typically defines a language's set of personal pronouns. It also frequently affects verbs, sometimes nouns, and possessive relationships. == Grammatical person in nominative case English pronouns == == Additional persons == In Indo-European languages, first-, second-, and third-person pronouns are typically also marked for singular and plural forms, and sometimes dual f...

Hmm, this lists "you guys" as an acceptable 2nd person gender neutral plural pronoun.

But the British "you lot" is even more gender neutral.

EngieOP

What's new?

rolfl

time to do the bed-time rprocess with my kids?

we are graduating?

lots of things

mjolka

regardless of whether or not the edits should have been made... CR users seem to be predominantly male. we should be aware of that, and make efforts not to be exclusive or unwelcoming, let we alienate anyone who wants to become/stay a part of the community. and yes i think that includes trying to be careful with the language that we use

4

Phrancis

23:42

And discussing the finer points of English pronouns and verbs :)

EngieOP

I see.
meh... ><

Phrancis

Well said @mjolka

Here have a star

mjolka

woohoo!

EngieOP

@Jamal New TF2 Comic Issue just released.

I messed that up again.. damn.

nhgrif

The beta version of my app now automatically updates itself (like the SE app does except mine is 1 less step).

Captain Obvious

23:45

0

Q: Functional Interface uses uncheck or unsafe operations

First of all, I am absolutely surprised that this code even works. Originally what I did was create a version checking system for Minecraft plugins (specifically Bukkit, Craftbukkit, & Spigot). What I wanted to do was refactor my Version class in order to make it platform independent (where it d...

java generics interface

RubberDuck

@Jamal NUTHIN

mjolka

looking at the list of people in chat right now, afaik everyone is male (a few names there i don't recognise). maybe we do have a problem with being inclusive

nhgrif

I don't think it's a CR problem.

EngieOP

@Malachi Yugos were notorious.

nhgrif

In all of my programming classes, there were only 2 or 3 females.

RubberDuck

23:52

It's a general programming problem. Which is why I feel it's important to be inclusive.

mjolka

@nhgrif agreed, the problem's not exclusive to CR. maybe we can do better though. idk. time for a smoke

Vogel612

lurking intensifies even further

I think you guys are beating a dead horse now....

rolfl

Vogel, you female?

EngieOP

@rolfl Thanks.

rolfl

nope... I'm back again.

you're welcome.

Vogel612

23:55

Nope.

rolfl

What;'s the internet slang... ASL?

Vogel612

19 m ger

rolfl

damn, people do respond ;-)

Vogel612

That aside.. from how this conversation reads to me theres been a consensus reached..

rolfl

Personally, I am 'settled' on what's right.

and how to deal.

Vogel612

23:57

I don't actually pay much attention to gender-neutraloty on the internet...

I just handle all people as neutral male ..

And I know its not correct and some people get offended by it...

EngieOP

engie just don kare.

rolfl

3 mins ago, by Vogel612

I think you guys are beating a dead horse now....

Vogel612

Beaten by my own weapons...

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