The 2nd Monitor

Malachi

14:00

@DanPantry I bet you could, if nothing else just reviewing that code

Dan Pantry

@SimonAndréForsberg No, I've been programming since at least 13 (I learned Lua then for WoW emulation). I started using Java when I was 16 and switched to C# about 18 months ago. I picked up Ruby, JavaScript and Python along the way. FWIW I turn 20 in Dec

@Nobody Over-rated, probably, but they help you get a foot in the door

Simon André Forsberg

@DanPantry That's more like it. I wish I started Java when I was 16. Instead I learned Delphi at 13 and PHP at 16.

Why did I learn PHP of all crazy languages there is?

I should have learned brainfuck instead...

3

Yuushi

@SimonAndréForsberg Because you didn't know any better?

Dan Pantry

@SimonAndréForsberg PHP I did try when I was younger when I was sure I wanted to be a web developer but I didnt' get much further past <%php print('Hello, World!'); %>

After looking at PHP compared to Ruby and even Node I wonder why anyone would want PHP

3

Simon André Forsberg

Probably so @Yuushi. At the time I thought PHP was awesome...

Dan Pantry

14:02

aside from the community

Nobody

@DanPantry: At least big employers know about the problems with degrees and look more for field experience

Dan Pantry

@Nobody I don't have much of that, either - as I said, only a year in employment so far. I've done various open source things, but not a whole lot. I maintained a project called WCell at one point and I have a guide on Lua that is still sticked on a forum to this day from 2008

Aside from that and a few failed Minecraft addons (Meridian), that's all I've got :p

Oh and I was a big contributor to that PokemonNXT thing that was going aroudn a few months ago, so there's that

Nobody

That is certainly more than I could put on my list

Schism

@DanPantry you might be able to write some bukkit plugins from the request forum and put them on your github

2

Malachi

I have a couple half finished games that I am trying to port from XNA to MonoGame in Xamarin.

Dan Pantry

14:04

@Schism Tempted, but Maven makes me cry. I might yet still get back into Java, once I get my Ubuntu partition back up and running

I sorely miss lambdas, I hope I can write plugins in Java 8 so I can use them

Yuushi

partition? Dear gods man, get you a VM

Dan Pantry

I would sorely miss *

@Yuushi Sorry, I did mean VM :-)

Yuushi

@DanPantry Damn straight

bazola

you should post a link to that Lua guide @DanPantry

Dan Pantry

@bazola Hahahahah oh dear that would be embarrassing. OK, let me find it. Bear in mind it is very simple, was written in 2008 (I was 13 then) and was written for World of Warcraft emulation

Oh wow

someone tried tos tick my Lua guide on hackforusm

Vogel612

14:06

@DanPantry Java is backward compatible, but I seriously doubt that everybody who has MC will have J8..

Yuushi

why not Scala?

Dan Pantry

@bazole Lua Guide

bazola

thanks :)

Yuushi

and who unpinned my "I'm an asshole" thing

Dan Pantry

@bazola note that doesnt' go over much of the syntax/semantics of Lua but rather how to make a teleporter in WoW.. oh my nefarious 13 year old deeds

Vogel612

14:08

@Yuushi stuff is auto-unpinned after....

somewhen

Yuushi

@Vogel612 It was pinned by a mod

bazola

i was curious about how Lua was used in WoW anyway so I'm sure it will be a good read

Dan Pantry

@Vogel612 more fool them!

Vogel612

@DanPantry definitely neglected.

Yuushi

I'm just going to blame @rolfl for it

Vogel612

14:09

@Yuushi you should probably write a wheel of blame...

Dan Pantry

@bazola This is for WoW emulators, not WoW itself. It is not condoned by Blizzard and I should mention that that tutorial is purely for educational purposes and I do not condone any of the content on the rest of that site

Yuushi

@Vogel612 too drunk/lazy, take your pick

Vogel612

@Yuushi depends on the time... (prob. lazy though ...)

Dan Pantry

@bazola Lua is used in WoW to make user interface AddOns which you can read about [here](www.wowinterface.com)

oh balls

well I'm not correcting it, deal with it

/lazy

Yuushi

@Vogel612 11:40pm here

Vogel612

14:10

s/lazy/neglected/

@Yuushi both then..

Phrancis

> Don't be alarmed! Both of these items are open source and free (As in "Free Speech" and "Free Beer")

Yuushi

@Vogel612 indeed

Vogel612

@Phrancis linkey?

Dan Pantry

@Phrancis Shamelessly stole the quote from notepad++

I really should get around to donating to the creator of it I've been using that software for years

2

@Vogel612 What about my old pseudonym? :p

Phrancis

@Vogel612 it's in Dan's Lua tutorial

Dan Pantry

14:12

"which means you cannot be sued (At least, by the creators) for downloading them.
" what the f***

wtf-is-this-shit more like it

Dont' ever take a 13 year old's advice on what you can and can't be sued for

2

Vogel612

[tag:wtf-is-this-shit]

btw, we're about to get a third row

Dan Pantry

(Unit, Event, player, id, intid, code, pMisc) fear my inconsistent labelling

"A variable is a byte of data," @_'

@_@

I am truly ashamed at that tutorial

LOL

bazola

i'm learning some stuff, so don't be lol

Dan Pantry

80,000 people have viewed me saying "A variable is a byte of data"

2

Yuushi

ease up on yourself. I doubt anyone is very proud of anything they wrote at 13

Phrancis

14:17

Not bad for 13 y.o. truly - The explanations are a little verbose, but otherwise it works fine. Heck, I was writing HTML at 13 lol.

Dan Pantry

I'm proud that it reached so many people and genuinely helped them. I'm proud that someone actually tried to rip the guide and put it on other forums

But damn if I'm embarrassed looking back at it now with my knowledge I have obtained

Yuushi

that's good, it means you've learnt a lot in the meantime

Schism

@Yuushi speak for yourself. I wrote a poem, and only three of the four people I showed it to laughed at me. proudest day of my life

Malachi

another kill

Dan Pantry

@Schism was the fourth obliged to encourage you?

Yuushi

14:18

@Schism 1/4 people can't be wrong?

Phrancis

	--[[
		This is a block comment
		It can span multiple lines!
		:D
	]]

Dan Pantry

@Yuushi: Definitely have in the past 12 months. 12 months ago I didn't even use tests or know any design patterns. Now I use TDD practically all the time

@Phrancis: Truly inspirational words of wisdom, huh?

Schism

@DanPantry for the sake of my pride I think I'll choose not to answer that

2

Malachi

4 revival badges in 2 days!

Phrancis

Especially the :D part!

Malachi

14:19

0

A: Compare Oracle Table with SQL Server Table and Update/Insert

One thing I would say is that you don't need to create those connection string variables, you are only using them once in this program and you have them nicely hidden where they should be, so you can just call them when you use them, which in this case is once. so instead of this var OracleConS...

Dan Pantry

@Phrancis obligatory :D. When you're 13, :D is like a full stop

Malachi

@Phrancis

Phrancis

Yes @Malachi ?

Malachi

@Phrancis Check it out codereview.stackexchange.com/a/60801/18427 you edited this question, figured you would want to see an answer to it....lol

Vogel612

@Phrancis When you post this with your current pic, it's looking even more retarded than it actually is.

Phrancis

14:21

Nice zombie kill @Malachi that one's almost a year old!!

Malachi

5 revival badges now.

@Phrancis thank you @Phrancis

Vogel612

btw. @Phrancis what happened to the question you bountied?

Malachi

I have been going through the unanswered questions

I better stop I am already at 100 rep.....lol...maybe get some work done now

Dan Pantry

@Malachi, at your memory pool answer, why is using {} around if/for statements 'safer'? Curious

Just for the sake of clarity?

Phrancis

Nobody answered and I lost 100 rep :(

2

Vogel612

14:24

> In accordance to tradition, your first function/script will be a 'Hello, World!' one.

Malachi

@Phrancis I was going to see what I could do on that one too, and forgot about it

Vogel612

@DanPantry google "apple goto fail bug"

Dan Pantry

@Vogel612 you're really enjoying this :p

Vogel612

@DanPantry always

Phrancis

It's freaking delphi I don't know anyone here that knows that

2

Nobody

14:25

@Phrancis: Link?

Malachi

@DanPantry braces are good when you have lots of code, because you might try to add something to the if statement and then it won't work.

@Phrancis I know. and agree

Vogel612

@Phrancis for the record... I had delphi in my highschool "programming class"

Phrancis

14

Q: Executing large SQL script file with GO statements using ADO

I wrote a small component (still in the works but working) which takes a large SQL script file, splits it into different "blocks" based on GO statements, and executes them one by one. The only major flaw I know of is not being able to detect when a GO statement is inside of a comment block, for ...

Vogel612

but... I have no clue about it anymore..

Dan Pantry

@Malachi wouldn't proper indentation clear up the semantics and prevent this issue

Vogel612

14:26

also: 4 hours grace period..

Schism

@Vogel612 Lucky you. I got to learn Turing and RTP Java...

Vogel612

@Schism mind, that we started with Visual BASIC.

Malachi

@DanPantry accidents happen, braces prevent more accidents than indentation does

3

Dan Pantry

@Malachi: Python and Coffeescript greet you with open arms :D

Vogel612

and that delphi episode was about that what you see from a almost acceptable to gruesome windows forms tutorial..

Phrancis

14:27

If anyone will put something in there that makes any sense in the next 4 hours, I will be happy to grant the bounty... ping me!

Malachi

@DanPantry and VB

@DanPantry Python I might like, but barely

Dan Pantry

@Malachi Don't worry I don't like Python all that much either, CoffeeScript is nice but I feel bad for using it because it's not "real" JavaScript

Schism

I just glanced to the right; I swear this is the most star-happy room I've ever seen

2

Yuushi

@DanPantry you say that like it's a bad thing

Dan Pantry

@Yuushi: I don't think it's a bad thing but all the big scary veteran coders might come after me with their zimmer frames and rose-tinted glasses

"well back in my day we used REAL code with JavaScript and didn't have any of your high level fancy shmancy CoffeeScript nonsense"

Nobody

14:29

@DanPantry I thought relying on indentation was what actually made this bug?

Dan Pantry

You know the "REAL CODERS" type

Malachi

Python looks like fun, and I want to learn more Javascript but I just don't have the time right now....

Yuushi

Yeah, except saying that with Javascript is just...hilarious

Schism

@DanPantry obligatory xkcd.com/378

Yuushi

maybe with assembly or C

but...Javascript? Really?

Dan Pantry

14:30

@YUushi I have repeatedly been told that C# is a bad language because it is not as performant as C/C++

and that I should not call myself a software engineer if I don't know/use C/C++ as a result

@Nobody To me it seems that all of his stuff is inline and not indented at least aroud the bug site. But I don't know 100% for rilz

Nobody

@DanPantry This argument would lead to Fortran or Assembler

Yuushi

@DanPantry tell them if they aren't using the right tool for the job, they have no business telling anyone who is and who isn't a software engineer

Vogel612

▲▲that... (both)

Morwenn

Another git-related question: I forked a repo. If I delete a forked branch, it only deletes it in my fork, right?

Dan Pantry

@Nobody :17289410 you don't need to convince me :)

Vogel612

14:32

@Morwenn um,..

@Morwenn what do you mean by fork and what do you mean by branch??

Dan Pantry

@Morwenn yes, it will not delete the remote branch unless you git push original-source-remote :branch

Yuushi

I'm personally of the opinion that if you're writing anything higher-level than device drivers in C, you're using the wrong tool

but @syb0rg might disagree with me there

Dan Pantry

@Yuushi if something needs deterministic destruction and allocation I can understand using C/C++

Vogel612

@Yuushi That's maybe not the best, but certainly not the worst opinion.

Morwenn

@Vogel612 What I mean is that I forked a repo with multiple branches. I was speaking about deleting a branch of the forked repo.

Dan Pantry

14:33

@Yuushi or needs to be just super duper performant. But these days horizontal scaling is all the rage AFAIK so maybe erlang would be better

@Morwenn: if you forked a repo and push to YOUR FORKED repo, then only your forked repo is affected

Vogel612

@Morwenn what Dan said.... and you're not getting clearer..

Morwenn

Ok. Great, thanks :)

Dan Pantry

@Morwenn To be clear, when you delete a branch in your working copy, your remote isn't updated

Yuushi

@DanPantry Maybe. I'm seeing a lot of stuff written in MATLAB lately that's supposed to be high performance and I feel like screaming

Dan Pantry

@Morwenn you have to explicitly delete the branch with git push remote :branch to delete remote branches

Morwenn

14:35

Ok, I think that I see what you mean.

Vogel612

@Morwenn also keep in mind that branches not merged to head will not be deleted when you use -d flag.

you can override that by using -D, but alas

Dan Pantry

@Vogel612: TIL!

Vogel612

@DanPantry confusion

Dan Pantry

@Vogel612 Today I Learned

....

Vogel612

...

Dan Pantry

14:36

wait i fked up

Vogel612

you can't bold single letters inside words..

Jeroen Vannevel

Phone interview for internship in 30 minutes. What questions should I expect?

Vogel612

or to be more precise you can't bold them in chat

Dan Pantry

@JeroenVannevel I had a technical test ("why isnt' this code working?") and the standard "why do you want to work for us"

Morwenn

@JeroenVannevel "Tell me about yourself".

Vogel612

14:37

three-rows

Dan Pantry

unfortunately "Give me money and I'll do crap for you" is not an appropriate answer to "Why do you want to work for us"

Vogel612

Yuushi

@DanPantry smbc-comics.com/?id=3453#comic

Jeroen Vannevel

@DanPantry I suppose "you're located in California, I don't care about the rest" isn't a good reason..

2

Vogel612

@DanPantry that...

Dan Pantry

14:38

@Vogel612: small-resolution-problems

Phrancis

The real real coders write code in machine language.

Vogel612

@DanPantry how so? after all this is a snippet..

Dan Pantry

@Vogel612 because on 1920x1280 I only have two rows :(

Vogel612

@DanPantry dammit!

Dan Pantry

@Vogel612 i.imgur.com/WbhXQaF.png

Phrancis

14:40

c7 3c 2a 3c 2a 2b 2a 5c 3c 28 5c 2a 2b 2a 5c 3c
28 5c 2a 2b 2a 5c 3c 28 5c 2a 2b 2a 5c 3c 28 5c
2a 2b 2a 5c 3c 28 5c 2a 2b 2a 5c 3c 28 5c 2a 2b
2a 5c 3c 28 5c 2a 2b 2a 5c 3c 28 5c 2a 2b 2a 5c
3c 28 5c 2a 2b 2a 5c 3c 28 5c 2a 2b 2a 5c 3c 28
5c 2a 2b 2a 5c 3c 28 5c 2a 2b 2a 5c 3c 28 5c 2a
2b 2a 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

^^ hello world

Pimgd

what's up with all that padding?

Vogel612

why did you put the string at 1350??

Pimgd

omg ur hex neds a c0de reviwz

Dan Pantry

/me nods thoughtfully and sips tea

yes i understand some of htese numbers

00 is quite clearly 0 as two zeroes makes it twice the 0

2

(I can't read hex, :()

Vogel612

> :()

RubberDuck

14:42

@DanPantry you sir are a welcome addition to the 2nd Monitor.

Dan Pantry

what's the image tag again?

@RubberDuck I am glad I have the approval of something I would otherwise use as a stress aid

Vogel612

@DanPantry use the upload button instead..

Dan Pantry

Vogel612

also chat has oneboxing for blank imgurl links...

Dan Pantry

= :()

Vogel612

14:43

> >:()

Simon André Forsberg

@Phrancis I know Delphi, but I don't know the advanced stuff of it

Malachi

competition with @syb0rg's answer codereview.stackexchange.com/a/60804/18427

Phrancis

@SimonAndréForsberg well if you have anything to say about what I posted a bounty on, even if it's just formatting or whatever, rather see that zombie die and you get 100 rep than lose it

But only 4 hours left grace period...

Malachi

and 2 necromancer badges!

Dan Pantry

_meterService.List(siteId).Where(m=>m.MeterTypeID==0&&m.FKUnitID==0&&m.FKUtilit‌yID==0) returns nothing. Execute raw sql? works fine.

This is why I hate integrating with 3rd party code

Malachi

14:47

@SimonAndréForsberg say something about the "F" prefix or something

Simon André Forsberg

@Phrancis Why haven't you said anything before?

Dan Pantry

Any of you know the font that Macs used to render text? That slightly semi-bold font that looks absolutely gorgeous when coloured?

Phrancis

It's been under featured posts for a week, but I didn't know you knew any Delphi :/

Yuushi

@Phrancis he probably just didn't want to admit it until now

Phrancis

lol

Dan Pantry

14:56

someone mentioned scala earlier?

rolfl

@Yuushi It was me, so feel free ;-)

Yuushi

@rolfl I knew it! :P

@DanPantry Yeah, I did

Dan Pantry

@Yuushi at the risk of being told my question is off-topic, pros/cons of using that over traditional java/jruby?

Schism

@DanPantry you don't really need to worry about being 'off-topic' in chat...

Yuushi

@DanPantry It's like Java but with a lot of extra "nice stuff"

Dan Pantry

14:59

@Yuushi you've just described C#

@Schism best to err on the side of caution

Yuushi

@DanPantry Sort of. Not quite though, Scala is a mixture of functional/OO, whereas C# is OO and...stuff.

2

Dan Pantry

@Yuushi "C# is OO and...stuff" very concise :p

Yuushi

can people tell I don't know C#?

Dan Pantry

C# certainly has functional elements to it, I'd say as a naive person that scala and c# are probably quite alike

AFAIk though Scala has language support for immutable structures, C# can't make entire structures immutable on it's own (you have to apply for each individual field)

Yuushi

yeah, I was about to say, immutable structures would be my first big difference

Nobody

15:02

As a programmer who uses neither Scala nor C# I would say that the functional part is much more dominant in scala than in C#

Dan Pantry

I have really been using a lot of "functional-stuff" in C# to the point of using verbs as dependencies on objects instead of nouns

Yuushi

@DanPantry what "functional stuff" is there in C# aside from LINQ?

Dan Pantry

first class functions (sort-of)

Yuushi

to be fair, the only languages I'm familiar with that doesn't have first class functions would be Java and...well, C

Vogel612

@DanPantry well that's just passing Runnables..

and java can do that too..

Yuushi

15:06

@Vogel612 so ugly in Java compared to just about any other language

Vogel612

@Yuushi sure, but it "works"

Dan Pantry

@Vogel612 I wouldn't say that's a first class function, though. you can't pass parameters to it last time I tried (Runnable has no arguments), you're just lexically scoping the requirements into the Runnable

Runnable.run has no arguments I mean

I might be wrong I haven't used Java in about 3 years

Vogel612

@DanPantry create a static Method instance and run invoke on it.

Dan Pantry

At least in C# we can do something like Func<T,T1,T2> (t,t1) => { return t2; }

Vogel612

java 8 supports that too...

Dan Pantry

15:08

> I haven't used Java in about 3 years

Yuushi

I think one of the problems is there isn't actually a good definition of "functional" languages

but personally, a language needs more than first class functions to be called functional

2

Vogel612

(meh)

Dan Pantry

I'm currently under the impression functional = currying, tail call optimization, immutability and first class + higher order functions

rolfl

"functional" is a function of the programmer's mindset, not the language they use

Dan Pantry

obviously you also have some languages (nods at Haskell) that have pure functions

Yuushi

15:09

I think that's missing a big one, that being referential transparency

Dan Pantry

That's what I meant by pure functions, sorry

Yuushi

yeah, I know

arguably C++ has all of that :/

Dan Pantry

Obviously functional languages should have referential transparency but I'm not 100% with the idea right now because a lot of things I do can't really work without side effects

C++ has everything and the kitchen sink, if you can find the right libraries for it

Yuushi

in the base language

(as of C++11, anyway)

although TCO is entirely compiler dependent

Dan Pantry

hooray I used a buzzword (tco) and someone was convinced I knew what it meant

(I don't)

Yuushi

15:12

@DanPantry it just means transforming a recursive function that uses O(n) stack space into O(1) stack space

Dan Pantry

OK. I guess I would grok that if I saw a working example of it but I understand the O notation enough to understand it's useful

Vogel612

@Yuushi but that's only possible if its tail-recursive..

Yuushi

@Vogel612 that's why it's called "tail-call" optimization :P

Stack Exchange

1

Q: Is minifiying on-topic?

I recently asked a question asking whether my code could be minified any further, but it was put on hold for being off-topic. Tim commented that he "voted to close as this is a code-golf question" and cited What topics can I ask about here? Now, I know that code golfing isn't allowed here, but ...

discussion scope

Yuushi

@DanPantry it just means that instead of creating a new stack frame for the recursive call, it's written in a way that the compiler can continue to re-use the current stack frame

Dan Pantry

15:14

sounds like reading material for the think tank

Vogel612

or said differently, the compiler is able to internally make a tail-recursive function look similar to a standard loop.

Yuushi

probably like the first time I encountered closures

Dan Pantry

@Vogel612 This is the example I hear a lot. Is there any chance I could get a link to before/after code (obviously in a high level representation) to explain it? sorry if this is all googleable but most examples on google make me glassy eyed

Vogel612

@DanPantry take fibonacci

there's two simple ways to implement it:

rolfl

Tail call

In computer science, a tail call is a subroutine call performed as the final action of a procedure. If a tail call might lead to the same subroutine being called again later in the call chain, the subroutine is said to be tail-recursive, which is a special case of recursion. Tail recursion is particularly useful, and often easy to handle in implementations. Tail calls can be implemented without adding a new stack frame to the call stack. Most of the frame of the current procedure is not needed any more, and it can be replaced by the frame of the tail call, modified as appropriate (similar to overlay...

Dan Pantry

15:16

> most examples on google make me glassy eyed
> links wikipedia

Vogel612

 int fibonacci (int n) {
       if (n == 0 || n == 1) {
           return 1;
       }
       return fibonacci(n-1) + fibonacci(n-2);
 }

that's the recursive one..

but you can also write it in an iterative way:

Malachi

And every day it gets harder to fight the urge to su to the user and freak people out.

2

Vogel612

 int fibonacci (int n) {
       int current = 1;
       int prev = 0;
       int temp;
       for (int i = 0; i <= n; i++) {
             temp = current + prev;
             prev = current;
             current = temp;
       }
       return current;
 }

(should work the same way)

Dan Pantry

Ah, right. So the compiler works out how to turn the tail calls into a loop - which I assume is faster because you pop less off the stack?

Vogel612

no that's not the problem

the problem is more that stack-frames are limited.

Captain Obvious

15:21

0

Q: Stable partition in Numpy

In essence, I need to do a stable partition: All elements of the 1D np.array a that are present in b should be moved to the front of a but apart from that, the relative order of the elements in a should be preserved. This code seems to do what I want: from __future__ import print_function import...

python algorithm numpy

Dan Pantry

Ah right

Vogel612

and as soon as you go beyond 10k frames, you get a stackoverflow exception

Dan Pantry

I knew that much, just didn't realize it had that limitation

That makes sense, I suppose. Thanks for the explanation :)

RubberDuck

2

wtf

Dan Pantry

Well, is he wrong?

Vogel612

15:22

it definitely looks like it,.

Dan Pantry

/s

Malachi

@DanPantry's avatar reminds me of @BenVlodgi's Avatar and you never see them in the same place at the same time......

Vogel612

@DanPantry the problem is, you can't take just any recursive function and make move in an iterative way..

@Malachi woah! additionally, both are c# guys.

Dan Pantry

@Malachi I'm really not sure if being compared to @BenVlodgi is a good or bad thing

Malachi

BenVlodgi

3k 6 34

c# game .net beginner community-challenge oop performance

Dan Pantry

15:24

I will update the photo when I get home, no worries :) I miss having my long(er) hair, which is why I have that photo up. It's actually over a year old.

I'm naturally blonde as well, as well as having blue eyes.

Malachi

Dan Pantry, Wales

350 1 8

c# java ruby ruby-on-rails security system.reactive unit-testing

Dan Pantry

unfortunately, I can't grow facial hair properly. So, yeah, not him. Sorry :p

3

Simon André Forsberg

0

A: Executing large SQL script file with GO statements using ADO

I am unfortunately not able to test your code, but I am able to read your code. Very well. Your code is overall very well written and you seem to adhere to most of the Delphi coding conventions that I know of. (Yes, non-Delphi users, using F for field name, T for a type, and a few letters before ...

You determine if it's worth the bounty

@Phrancis Delphi is what I started with, 15 years ago...

@DanPantry Ask @Donald.McLean and he'll tell you that "Scala has all the advantages of Java and fewer of the disadvantages"

Dan Pantry

@SimonAndréForsberg I don't think that's a very hard definition for most languages to compete with, frankly

2

Vogel612

@DanPantry now now..

Dan Pantry

15:28

@Vogel612 filled with venom today ;-)

Vogel612

Java is portable to infinity and back, but C#...

#justsaying

Dan Pantry

I don't know if anyone has ever heard of epic rap battles of history, but I would love to see one between the creator of C# and the creator of Java

(and by creator I mean one individual person, not Sun vs Microsoft)

Vogel612

it's an s anyways..

Yuushi

Gosling vs Hejlsberg, go!

Vogel612

that sounds like a plan..

Dan Pantry

15:31

And for those who haven't seen it I recommend you all watch Steve Jobs vs Bill Gates (note - some mature language)

Simon André Forsberg

@DanPantry Hey! There's nothing wrong about Java!

Yuushi

@SimonAndréForsberg Yeah, it's a perfectly boring language! :P

Phrancis

@SimonAndréForsberg congrats :-)

Dan Pantry

@SimonAndréForsberg I'm not saying there is, I just think other languages do what it does better (generally). Portability is nice, though

But, there's always Mono - and if portability is the only chip a language has to play.. :p

Simon André Forsberg

@DanPantry What I like most about Java is that: 1. Most IDEs can compile 'on-the-fly', 2. Java and it's most useful tools are free (Resharper in Visual Studio anyone?), 3. There's plenty of Libraries for it along with some build-tools to easily add them (Maven Repository FTW), 4. it's highly portable as most devices use it or supports it (Computers, Android Devices, Blackberry, Windows Phone, your Dishwashing Machine...)

Dan Pantry

15:37

> 1. Most IDEs can compile 'on-the-fly', - you've got this one

> 2. Java and it's most useful tools are free (Resharper in Visual Studio anyone?), - this one too

> 3. There's plenty of Libraries for it along with some build-tools to easily add them (Maven Repository FTW),

Maven is god awful compared to NuGet/NPM/RubyGems

> 4. it's highly portable as most devices use it or supports it (Computers, Android Devices, Blackberry, Windows Phone, your Dishwashing Machine...)

Simon André Forsberg

There's also Gradle, Apache Ant, Ivy, and others if you like them better.

Dan Pantry

That'st rue, although programming in android makes me want to claw my eyeso ut

Anything xml-based = no ty

I'm going to look into Gradle when I get home though

That said I will give maven and ant the fact that they are more like Make/Rake than NuGet

Simon André Forsberg

I used to hate Maven a lot, and then I actually learned it better and understood it more, and then I liked it a lot.

Dan Pantry

I just think a human writing Xml is a crime haha

It's not that I don't understand it at all :P just seems long winded, and I've beens poiled by the command line package managers

and yes I am aware Eclipse has a Maven plugin as well

Simon André Forsberg

Maven is a pain in the a** whenever you want to do anything new with it, but when everything is working as it should, it's awesome!

I don't know NuGet/NPM/RubyGems though

Dan Pantry

15:40

"when it's working, it works! but at all other times it sucks" isn't really selling it for me

rubygems = you want a dependency? cool.

Simon André Forsberg

I'm not trying to sell anything to you.

Dan Pantry

gem install dependency

if you wanna distribute the list, just stick it in a Gemfile with the name of the dependency in quotes - done :P

Simon André Forsberg

I had a hard time getting started with maven, but once I am using it, I love it.

Vogel612

I'll just leave here that C# / VS configs are mostly XMLs..

Dan Pantry

Only want something built during tests? no problem, can do that too. group :test { gem install 'dependency', '~> X.X.X' }

@Vogel612: I agree, thats' why I tend to bat for ruby/node outside of work

Vogel612

15:41

@DanPantry you can do that in maven too..

Simon André Forsberg

@DanPantry What's exactly wrong with using XML? I find the idea of why Android is using XML very good (separations of concern about views, strings, animations, styles, etc..).

Dan Pantry

@Vogel612 I knwo that, but it's in Xml, which I don't like :(

@SimonAndréForsberg is a mark-up language written for computers that a programmer has to write

Vogel612

@DanPantry not really..

Dan Pantry

The way I see it is that when you code you should be writing code for other programmers to understand, not the computer

Vogel612

It's been written for something like a "Common denominator"

Dan Pantry

15:43

<tag property='value'></tag> is much less semantic (for me) than property: value

Vogel612

> "Programming is the art to tell another human, what you want the computer to do."

Simon André Forsberg

@DanPantry Sounds like you should look into Gradle, then. That does not use XML

Dan Pantry

or alternatively <tag property='value'/>

@SimonAndréForsberg gonna look into it after I peace out from work which will be pretty soon - 3 day weekend hoorah

Vogel612

@DanPantry or yet another: <tag><property>value</property></tag>

Dan Pantry

@Vogel612 <xml schema..><xml><tag><property>value</property</tag></xml>

Simon André Forsberg

15:44

Oh, right... hey @Malachi... you know what day it is?

2

Dan Pantry

@_@

Simon André Forsberg

►

Dan Pantry

OH GOD

noooooooo

Vogel612

aaaaarh

@DanPantry linked-list

Simon André Forsberg

It's tradition to post that to @Malachi every now and then ^^

Dan Pantry

15:45

@Vogel612 yeah I know the meme :P

@Vogel612 Maybe this is better

Vogel612

Oh yes it is.

well ima head off.....

Dan Pantry

and it's antonym

/afk for a bit, need to walk home

Bhathiya-JaDogg-Perera

15:57

I'm going to write some C# and post my first C# question, muwahaha

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