The 2nd Monitor - 2014-11-13 (page 3 of 3)

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Jeroen Vannevel

11:01 PM

@Morwenn That's what I was looking for, no problem

We all know my code is above perfection

I'm not quite convinced of the use of killing the best algorithms as well though

Why wouldn't I just give those past the 50% relative fitness a chance to die?

Why also allow my best ones to die?

Actually, that's up to you.

But sometimes, solutions that seem to be the best ones are actually dead-ends that will lead you nowhere.

Jeroen Vannevel

so I should see it as a soft way of avoiding a local optimum?

It could. But this isn't much of a problem with large sets of data.

When you have a million solutions, losing the "best" one does not always matter.

Of course, it depends on what your population actually represents.

It think that it does not really matter when you work with discrete data.

Simon André Forsberg

@JeroenVannevel You allow your best ones to die so you don't get caught in a local maximum. You want the global maximum, not a local one.

oh, perhaps I should read before I write...

3 mins ago, by Jeroen Vannevel

so I should see it as a soft way of avoiding a local optimum?

In your case, @JeroenVannevel I guess you don't face the problem of local optimum much, as whether or not something is a solution or not is quite clear.

Now, can we use this to create a genetic algorithm that learns to play Tic-Tac-Toe?

Anyway, please do not consider me a reference in genetic algorithms, I just had one or two classes. In other words 2h to 6h where I wasn't always attentive.

Captain Obvious

11:11 PM

0

Q: Sieve of Eratosthenes - segmented to increase speed and range

A lot of the sieve code floating around here and on the 'net is sloppy or broken; in fact, I've yet to see a single one that is correct, clean (in the sense of avoiding superfluous iterations etc.) and that can actually sieve up to the end of its operating range. Some state at least that they can...

c++ sieve-of-eratosthenes

^^ Hahahahahaha!

Jeroen Vannevel

Right, that all makes sense

Simon André Forsberg

@Morwenn what's so funny?

There are sieves of Eratosthenes everywhere on CR.

They represent a threat to the linked-list domination.

Jeroen Vannevel

@SimonAndréForsberg Feel free to try but I have to go back to writing a REST API, WinPhone app, Android App, prepping for a WinPhone exam, writing a paper for Dutch/English and a few more fun things

Simon André Forsberg

11:16 PM

@JeroenVannevel I would so like to focus more on AI. I still have 1000 more pages to read in a book :) Right now I'm focusing a bit on finishing some projects of mine, getting apps out to Google Play. So.... maybe next year I can look more into AI.... or... in five years from now? :)

Jeroen Vannevel

@SimonAndréForsberg the eternal struggle

I just hope I can get around to reading my books before they are outdated

Mobile development books tend to be outdated by the time they're printed.

@JeroenVannevel What are you taking a WinPhone exam for?

Are you getting certified?

Jeroen Vannevel

The "Mobile Apps" choice class in my course offers the choice between WinPhone and iOS on top of the default Android

So it was a nobrainer

Oh, I wish I could take a .NET class.

11:22 PM

How is WinPhone a no-brainer?

Jeroen Vannevel

I love C#, I could wipe my ass with Obj-C syntax

My U only offers Java.

Because if you develop a WinPhone app, you'll know all 4 people in the world that own a Windows Phone?

2

I own one.

The Nokia 520.

You can write an iOS app in Swift. Or C# apparently.

11:23 PM

I wrote an app for it too, but is unpublished now.

Or C, for that matter... if you really wanted too... Or Java.

Jeroen Vannevel

@nhgrif Dunno, we were told some statistics at the start of the year that indicated 26% of users in Belgium used iOS while 20% used WinPhone

Jeroen Vannevel

@nhgrif Yeah, but they use Obj-C as far as I know. And, well, I already know a bit about Xamarin works

And Xamarin's naming and stuff is based on WinPhone, I have found

so there's that

If it were me though... and I were still a student, I'd go for broadening my skill set, rather than what I'm comfortable with.

As a professional though, the opposite.

Jeroen Vannevel

11:26 PM

I learned Xaml through this though

Which is fairly important for a .NET developer

You learned Xamarin through learning the Windows Phone stuff?

Jeroen Vannevel

No, I dabbled around with Xamarin a bit last summer

But I noticed that it uses some similar constructs like WinPhone

I don't know Xamarin, although I've seen the name across the web.

Should I look into it?

Jeroen Vannevel

Partly because the UI is also created with XAML and stuff

I know XAML and MVVM.

Jeroen Vannevel

11:28 PM

It looks good but I haven't used it extensively yet

there aren't as much examples online yet as I'd like and the Visual Studio support isn't 100% either yet

But it's worth it if you don't mind going through it

How does it work?

Jeroen Vannevel

it's free anyway as a student

Does it generate code for you?

Jeroen Vannevel

No, you just write .NET code (C# / VB.NET / F#) and it gets translated to native components for each platform

Oh, I get it.

11:29 PM

I am kind of tired. I will go to sleep. See you later :)

Bye, @Morwenn.

Jeroen Vannevel

@Morwenn night

I'd better get it quick.

Thanks ^^

I still like Xcode's interface builder and iOS's auto layout better than anything else I've used.

Jeroen Vannevel

11:31 PM

Yeah, I doubt it will be on par with any of the actually native languages/IDEs

It's all about the portability

So, can iOS run any C# code?

I thought it ran mostly Java.

Jeroen Vannevel

iOS mostly Java?

No. Most iOS developers write in Objective-C and now Swift.

You can bridge C++ using Objective-C++.

Oh, I'd heard of Objective C, and I know some C++.

I know Android uses mostly Java.

Yes.

11:34 PM

So, how is Objective-C/C++ different than C/C++?

Using Xamarin you can write C# for iOS.

And using RoboVM, you can write Java for iOS.

Objective-C is object-oriented C.

Oh, OK.

Why in the world don't they just use C#?

Objective-C and C++ were developed around the same time, both with the same idea of adding OOP to C. They went about it in different ways.

Objective-C is much older than C#... so is C++.

So C# came around too late?

Why are procedural languages making such a come-back?

C# first showed up in 2000. It's Microsoft's answer to Sun telling them they can't use Java how they were using it.

Objective-C first showed up in 1983.

11:38 PM

Yes, I knew C# was a twist off Java - we covered that in Java class.

C++ also 1983.

@hosch250 iOS doesn't run Java

iOS runs its specific executables

iOS running a JVM running Java runs Java

@AlexM. OK, I understand.

well, running bytecode coming from Java

I don't know what you mean by "why are procedural languages making such a comeback"

11:39 PM

I was thinking Android.

because not even a JVM runs Java

@nhgrif A lot of people are really swinging over to Python/F#/whatever.

They like how it isn't OO.

F# is functional, not procedural

also F# is OO

Python is OO too

OK, I must be mixed up again.

I'm not sure you are clear about what you're trying to say

there is no language making a comeback right now

11:41 PM

I meant that a fair amount of people are preferring procedural programming techniques instead of OOP techniques now.

what do you base that claim on?

I was over on SO in the chat, and there were people telling me that C# was outdated and nasty, and I should be using F#.

And people on the web were talking about how .NET isn't good, and you have to use Python to become a good programmer...

Not that they are telling the truth, but...

2 mins ago, by Alex M.

I'm not sure you are clear about what you're trying to say

lol...

do some real research?

11:43 PM

C# is "outdated" yet it's 17 years newer than C++ which is used heavy... and it's 5 years newer than Java which is used heavily.

Jeroen Vannevel

C# outdated?

I don't think so.

Jeroen Vannevel

If I had a gun and knew how to shoot, you'd be dead twice by now

Don't shoot! I'll come down!

The only "language comeback" I know of is Objective-C about ten years ago when iOS came out.

Jeroen Vannevel

11:45 PM

@nhgrif Javascript as well, I'd say

People stopped writing as much Objective-C because few Mac users versus PC. Then iOS comes out and tons of new demand for Objective-C code.

C# becomes outdated when it loses support

that is, when Microsoft stops shoving money in it

when Xamarin stops shoving money in it

when Unity stops using it

etc. etc. etc.

Maybe not even then.

It will probably become open-source.

a language cannot become open source

Jeroen Vannevel

Well, now that a bunch of stuff is Open Source.. Maybe not even then

The compiler is OS and so is the entirety of .NET

just a few specialized frameworks are left

11:52 PM

People still write VB.NET. How can C# be outdated...

I never said it was, I said people told me it was.

If it was outdated, I wouldn't learn it.

I wouldn't say that.

COBOL is worth learning.

is it now

FORTRAN sounds interesting to me, although it seems it is mainly used still because of old systems.

Some Information Systems degrees require you to learn COBOL.

Virtually every ATM you'll ever use runs code written in COBOL.

11:57 PM

I know a security person who works at a bank that has some COBOL code still.

@nhgrif not convinced

COBOL (/ˈkoʊbɒl/, an acronym for common business-oriented language) is a compiled computer programming language designed for business use. It is imperative, procedural and, since 2002, object-oriented. It was designed in 1959 by the Conference on Data Systems Languages (CODASYL) and was largely based on previous programming language design work by Grace Hopper, commonly referred to as "the mother of COBOL". COBOL is primarily used in business, finance, and administrative systems for companies and governments. In 1997, Gartner Group estimated that there were a total of 200 billion lines of COBOL...

no, I'm not convinced that I should move my ass and learn COBOL now

I don't know the current status of this, but there used to be a law requiring security-critical government code to be written in ADA.

extreme niches, very old codebases, using COBOL out of sheer necessity

you'd have to be insane to want a job like that

so no, I'm not sure I think COBOL is worth learning

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