The 2nd Monitor

@rolfl Hmm, I've never tested the limits of the serial upvoting system...

Everything is a learning experience.

12:17 AM

@Nobody Although I understand the fear of rejection for posting on SO, I think that is both harmful for you and for the entire Stack Overflow community. However, fear of rejection is, hopefully, a sign that you know that it takes a bit to ask a good SO question. And good SO questions are good for the SO community.

@rolfl I'm going to Strasbourg in a couple of days, I'm quite sure all of you will have more hats than me when I get back

@SimonAndréForsberg: Yeah you're right. However, I noticed that most of the time this "fear" is blocking me from asking really stupid questions (that would have been closed)

rolfl

@Nobody I have a very healthy respect for SO.... I have asked exactly 1 question there, even though I have almost 7K rep there (and my question is unanswered).

I have the same fear as you.

@Nobody How do you know if it would be closed or not if you don't post it?

rolfl

The only questions i have asked here are related to the week-end challenge.

(I can't post anything work related anyway).

@SimonAndréForsberg: Just by the fact that after searching some more time on my own I turn up the solution somewhere on the web or even SO

12:22 AM

@Nobody That sounds like a reason.

I've asked 16 questions on SO in total. One of them got automatically deleted after having low views for a long while, then it got one downvote (without a comment unfortunately) and then my question was removed a short while later - never closed though.

@SimonAndréForsberg: Most of the time my initial tries to search for the problem end because I ran out of the right words to search for

@Nobody It's good that you do your own research before you ask a question. Many people fail to do that before they ask a question on SO and then get massacred from not doing their own research.

I could need some SE site were I put in my problem and they give me the right terms to search for ^^

@syb0rg Unfortunately though, you don't have any chance to get reputation by doing research.

@syb0rg: I often enough do the same mistake. However, it is getting better (at least I hope so)

12:24 AM

@SimonAndréForsberg Good point.

@SimonAndréForsberg: Everytime I catch myself hunting for rep I stop using SO for a while

I feel it is the wrong motivation

and triggers wrong behavior

for example: answering duplicate questions instead of closing them

Those who do their research, find a good answer on SO and give it an upvote because it helped them, those people also deserve some reputation!

2

@Nobody That is why I stopped answering questions on Raspberry Pi SE. I was rep-whoring all of the questions which was inhibiting the growth of the site.

@Nobody You have a good point. It's only virtual points. But if reputation is not the motivation, how many other motivations are there?

Q: Optimizing/Cleaning up Python Script for Zipf's Law

just for the sake of learning/teaching and being part of a community

4

Stack Exchange

12:26 AM

0

I have attached two scripts which calculate the most popular songs according to zipf's law from the following standard input: 6 3 100 one 50 two 10 three 30 four 5 five 10 six The first line details the number of songs to be input followed by the number of songs to return. Each line that follo...

0

Q: Ad page optimization?

Any suggestions on how to shorten this would be greatly appreciated. This code takes three parameters through the URL and displays a page with targeted ads. I especially need help on how to cut down the three sections where I replace %20 with spaces. Also, here is the URL with sample parameters -...

javascript optimization html

initially I got to SO for the good/fast answers

I can't say if the whole rep/badge thing holds the site up but in my opinion the site itself is worth it (even without rep)

however, there are too many other concepts linked to the rep to abolish it

for example the privileges

indeed

I feel that the reputation system is very smart and useful.

It is however, a bit painful when all that's needed (at least officially) for CR to graduate is high-rep users.

hm thats not quite what I meant

I feel the reputation system is a (somewhat) working solution but it only is a hack in my opinion

Hello again!

and regarding your bit about rewarding people how do their homework: I don't see much reward in those virtual points and badges

the biggest and most immediate reward is having solved the problem

wb @retailcoder

12:39 AM

@Nobody jumping in.. I think it's very healthy behavior you have here. SO is supposed to be the last resort - if you search well, chances are SO already has an answer for your question. And if after all your search you still can't find an answer, start typing your question and stop before you hit "post question" and see if the duck isn't helping (i.e. re-read 2-3 times). Then post.

^^ ref. rubberduck debugging

yeah already got that (because of your other chat room name proposal)

I think it was @syb0rg's :)

@Jamal I see Gandalf has rep-capped you on MSO! Nice one!

ok then because of @syb0rg's

I'm confused.

First rep cap EVER (and probably my last for a while). I will indeed savor the moment.

12:43 AM

Chrome is notifying me and I don't know what you guys are talking about.

you

A: What should be the name of our main chatroom?

2

The Duck from: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?RubberDucking http://www.rubberduckdebugging.com/ http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/03/rubber-duck-problem-solving.html

or better: your proposal for the chat room's name

Nah, sorry, wasn't @syb0rg's answer :/

That's what was confusing me.

12:44 AM

hm retailcoder tricked me ^^

@syb0rg well hi anyway!

James Khoury... has he ever been in here?

It's great you guys are thinking about me anyways!

yup

Yes.

12:45 AM

@syb0rg just one half though :p

@retailcoder Human or robot side?

which one is connected to the net?

lol (<<== well thought-through "lol")

@retailcoder Think it through all you want, you know that once posted, it will get starred.

@SimonAndréForsberg 21st century is crazy like that, sometimes there aren't any better words than "lol" to express something...

5

12:48 AM

@Nobody The robot-side.

@retailcoder Sometimes there aren't any better ways than starring to express something either...

@syb0rg: Direct uplink could come in handy at times.

@syb0rg: Beware of the iRobot scenario though

So, I was stalking the chatroom earlier today, @200_success had an awesome idea, what's up with The Best of 2013 meta-CR-awards?

@200_success @retailcoder I think it's a nice idea.

I know what the award can be! A theoretical star!

^^ more like real meta-fx upvotes to all nominees

12:54 AM

Yeah, well, that too

I still don't see the meta-post, does that mean I have to start typing?

Well, if there is going to be one then someone has to do it. Most posts don't write themselves, you know...

(I started already)

Good. That's the @retailcoder we all know and love!

prepares for mod notification of new Meta post

12:59 AM

Mod notification? You get special notifications for that?

^^ braces for impact

Yeah.

@retailcoder I'll write up the meta post in a few hours. I have some other stuff to do right now.

@200_success good! I'll leave it to you then :)

@Jamal: Oh those poor mods on SO

1:01 AM

In the meantime, suggestions for ground rules would be welcome. For example, do we allow self-nominations?

their inbox must be crammed full

How long should the feature run? Indefinitely? Locked after a certain date?

Anything we should do to encourage hidden gems to bubble up? I'd rather not see the already top-rated posts get rehashed, unless there is something remarkable about them.

I suppose it could be locked sometime in mid-January or earlier. It doesn't need to be on-going throughout 2014.

@200_success Well, since they are top-rated, they should be remarkable, shouldn't they?

@Nobody @200_success Your avatars are too similar I have trouble discerning you two.

1:05 AM

mid-january sounds good. I'd like to take a look when I get home from Strasbourg :)

I was hoping that this could be a way to draw attention to underrated posts.

Well the next two weeks are possibly going to be low-traffic, and the best of 2013 can still come up at this time, so I agree with mid-January

@syb0rg I agree! And they're wearing the same hat, too!

@syb0rg Same here. Although I did realize that you can actually read their usernames! Neat, huh?

@SimonAndréForsberg Bah, that takes too long.

@syb0rg wow even the same hat, you did that on purpose @200_success ?

1:06 AM

:)

@syb0rg Unfortunately, I have to agree with you there too :)

So what are the categories?

@200_success Perhaps it will. It would be nice to see some hidden gems. In that case, I think we should allow self-nominations. As perhaps I've answered a question that I'm very happy with, but not many others have seen it or know about it.

Same hat? What a fashion faux-pas! I'm embarrassed.

Best weekend challenge code question?

1:08 AM

@200_success next time we need to coordinate better than this

Stop copying me!

Best written code that didn't need much fixing? (Most elegantly written code)

@200_success I am the trendsetter! you copied me! ^^

OK, that's it. I'll just have to go naked.

6

Most interesting code project? Best explained code (to show good examples of how to explain the context)

1:10 AM

^^ @200_success taken out of context, this is a gem!

I thought this was Code Review and not Porn Review? I must have ended up at the wrong place...

@SimonAndréForsberg that's a nice idea - let these "CR Awards" showcase the best CR questions, so we can point there and say "look at these ones, this is how you write a great CR question"!

4

It's nakedness in good taste, not porn.

@SimonAndréForsberg: You can always propose a new site on Area51. :P

@Jamal That thought did actually occur to me...

I agree with @retailcoder, (removed)

@retailcoder And also the best answer somehow... How to write a good, readable, not too long (or if it's long, it should still be damn good), answer.

1:16 AM

So we have Best Question Overall and Best Answer Overall as the top-notch categories?

Maybe we should make a meta-post for questions and another for answers, with the same categories in both?

@retailcoder Or a meta post for which meta-posts we should create? </sarcasm>

@retailcoder Yeah, that could work

And as usual, time is... late. Whatever you will write on meta, it will be interesting. Looking forward to reading it tomorrow.

Shall we name a trophy?

Tomorrow is Christmas Eve, which is the day most Swedes (including me) celebrate Christmas the most, so I won't be here so much probably. Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night :)

@SimonAndréForsberg Merry Christmas, don't forget to just log on and vote if you want your hat!

@SimonAndréForsberg Good night!

1:21 AM

Good night @SimonAndréForsberg

Good night @SimonAndréForsberg, I will go too

@Nobody Goodbye!

so no more confusion with @200_success ;)

@Nobody just don't rename yourself 404_notfound :)

4

Q: CR [meta-]Awards - Categories Discussion

1:41 AM

0

As this 3rd beta-year comes to an end, we are planning to review the best code reviews of 2013. As we do so, we will nominate (link to) the best questions and answers we could find, and showcase them as examples of what great CR questions and answers should look like. There's just one problem: w...

discussion fun

^^ Here's the categories discussion :)

I'll feature it now! At the same time, do you think I should historical lock the old WC questions?

@Jamal Lock or protect?

@Jamal That's just for coming up with the categories, I'll let @200_success write the actual meta-post for the meta-awards :)

and yeah, CRWEC questions should be locked upon expiration actually

@syb0rg: Lock. Protecting won't be useful.

@syb0rg locked - no more votes, no more comments, no more entries

1:46 AM

I'm not sure I like that idea, what is the reasoning behind this?

@syb0rg what idea?

locking expired weekend challenge proposals?

@retailcoder Yes.

Proposals or questions containing code to be reviewed?

@syb0rg just the meta-questions containing the CRWEC proposals!

@Jamal that's what you meant right? ^^

Yes, all the ones from previous weeks.

Oh. Then I'm fine with that then.

1:49 AM

locking the actual main-site weekend-challenge entries would be unfair!

@retailcoder Agreed.

Though, we will not be locking the master directory of WEC, right?

Right. I should've mentioned Meta. :-)

Nope, just the individual ones. I've specially marked the master post as an on-going post.

@syb0rg no, unless we put a definitive end to the thing

...which shouldn't happen :)

2

Q: CR [meta-]Awards - Categories Discussion

@retailcoder Hopefully not, I enjoy doing them when I'm not busy.

Stack Exchange

2

As this 3rd beta-year comes to an end, we are planning to review the best code reviews of 2013. As we do so, we will nominate (link to) the best questions and answers we could find, and showcase them as examples of what great CR questions and answers should look like. There's just one problem: w...

discussion featured fun

1:51 AM

@retailcoder My mind is recovering

That's why I'm soooo happy for Christmas break.

I think @retailcoder is the only person that participated in the week's WEC because of Christmas and everyone being so busy with the holidays.

codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/weekend-challenge

I don't know, I had never written a WPF app that sent web requests, even less any kind of app that parses Json.. I put together something in a couple of hours, and posted it knowing I wouldn't be able to spend much more time on it. I would have liked to push it much further though, that API has everything you always wanted to know about Pokemons but never asked!

..not that I ever wanted to know anything about Pokemons..

was fun though

lol

And it was already deleted. Poor guy. :-(

I had enough time to see it!

Maybe he was a programmer with a sense of humor?

That or he had no clue what he was doing.

(Or he was trolling)

1:59 AM

Yeah, we rep-whore with more subtlety here on CR.

Speaking of rep-whoring (and badge-whoring):

23

A: Execute script on start-up

For running Midori on startup, take a look at this tutorial. For DIY solutions, read on. You can add your script executable command to the bottom of .bashrc that will run your script every time you log in. Make sure you are in the pi folder: $ cd ~ Create a file and write a script to run...

I'm soooo close to 25!

Hello @apieceoffruit

howdy!

Hey!

Hi! Welcome to CR!

can't believe I never heard of this place!

3

feels like I landed in programmer narnia

9

rolfl

2:05 AM

I can't believe it's not butter .... :(

Gotta go again .... (drive-by-ape-wit)

@apieceoffruit Oh, you are in for a treat then!

I have been looking for a community code review site for a while now

@apieceoffruit search no more!

Have you been browsing the site?

I mean, have you come across weekend-challenge?

I must say I got some surprise when my comments were being edited,

Nothing major of course just a few grammar errors but I must say I love the concept nothing worse than seeing a sea of hard to peruse results and answers.
My background is in C sharp so I'd been looking they are mostly but I popped my head in a Java. I notice there was challenges but I haven't had a look as of yet

@apieceoffruit Your reputation on CR has gone up 30 rep since you joined this chatroom.

(I may have taken part in that)

2:09 AM

(I may maybe might have taken part in that too)

side-effect of hanging in the 2nd monitor :)

Going to take a while to get used to that ;)
all of this reputation stuff is a bit overwhelming at first!

Q: The Review Monster is Awake

@apieceoffruit so you're new to StackExchange altogether then?

This might help:

11

Not so long ago, there were dark times. Meet Bob: http://creattica.com/vector/the-programmer/39902 Bob has been programming for a little while now. When he was ever stumped on a problem he'd scrape the whole Internet to find answers, and get the thing to work. But Bob isn't the type...

discussion beta-progress

Yes the only real programming communities have been involved in is code Project I spend most of my time reading programming blogs worth it was time to start diving in

@retailcoder Looking at all of his accounts on SE, the first one he joined was CR (3 days ago).

@apieceoffruit Many people say that being a part of this community has improved their programming skills.

Yes I just joined the others a few hours ago when I had a look around

I don't doubt it, there is only so much you can learn reading all of the common programming books. And since I started a job in corporate software development my programming side projects have gone out the window so I need something to keep the brain active

2:14 AM

WinterBash must be such an overwhelming time to join! It's cool that you're wearing your Hello World! hat!

Github gists can be inlined? I never knew this!

github.com/git/git

Dang it.

You can thank steam and reddit for that, now in any context when something gives me a hat I immediately put it on!

wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/f5/…

Darn. Image didn't embed.

Why won't those inline/embed?

ha, the top hat should be on the top though...

2:20 AM

(It's called "magic touch")

haha! Monkey-3-hats!

(voice) Spy!

discussion featured fun weekend-challenge

@apieceoffruit Here are Weekend Challenges (WCs) that you could look at:

15

Q: CR Weekend Challenge

Those of you that weren't following what's going on in the chat room might have been taken by surprise by a recent avalanche of Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock posts. This is how it started: OK, weekend challenge.... we all solve the Rock Paper Scissors Lizzard Spock problem with our 'favou...

@apieceoffruit the "review monster" post contains a bunch of useful links for newcomers, about the privileges and badges and reputation, notably.

Cool thanks, it's going to be a lot harder to look like working in the office now...

2:23 AM

Speaking of, isn't it time for a new weekend challenge proposal area to begin @retailcoder

@apieceoffruit that's why this chatroom is tagged with pretending-to-work :)

I consider discussion here "collaborating with other programmers of varying expertise" (at least when we're not talking about whoring or lol).

@Jamal Varying expertise? Where do I fall in that?

Just out of curiosity.

discussion fun weekend-challenge

@Jamal the lock on CRWEC#4 prevents me from linking to an eventual #5... can you fix that?

0

Q: Weekend Challenge #5

One single proposal per answer, most upvoted as of 2013-12-28 (12:00AM UTC) becomes our next challenge! The winning entry shall be marked as the accepted answer. index | previous challenge | next challenge

@syb0rg: Personally, it's hard to tell just from looking at answers. It just seems we're all not at the same level, but that's just my thinking. Absolutely nothing wrong with it.

@retailcoder: I didn't think of that. I'll change that, and from now on, I'll wait until you give me the green light before locking (or I could just lock in batches since it's not very important).

2:30 AM

@Jamal So higher or lower in your opinion? I won't get mad if you say lower.

@Jamal link edited in! good to lock!

I love how fluid the concept of learning programming is, I've met someone who excel in architecting systems,those who are geniuses with algorithms and some who are fantastic at bug detection

@syb0rg: From what I've seen, I'd say higher. I feel pretty low myself, but that's probably because I've acquired most of my knowledge of C++ from college (and they don't teach you very much). I also haven't been doing too well in challenging myself with harder projects.

By the way I apologise for the woeful grammar, it's 2:30 in the morning I'm super lazy and dictating this.

@apieceoffruit That's fine. As long as you improve over time ;)

2:32 AM

@apieceoffruit that's nothing. wait 'till you see what the monkey can write!

@Jamal Sweet. Now what would your reaction be if I said I was a high-school student?

Also, from looking at your reviews I would say you are pretty good at programming.

discussion fun weekend-challenge

I'd be okay with that. :-) There was no programming in my high school anyway, and that was only a few years ago.

Stack Exchange

2

Q: Weekend Challenge #5

One single proposal per answer, most upvoted as of 2013-12-28 (12:00AM UTC) becomes our next challenge! The winning entry shall be marked as the accepted answer. index | previous challenge | next challenge

@Jamal There wasn't programming at my school either (except one piddly class of HTML).

Well, I still think I'm better at picking apart beginner code. As I get better, I'd like to resurrect more C++ zombies.

2:35 AM

That's an interesting question actually I wonder what the average age group is here I'm 25 by the way two years out of college started a job last year as a business process developer

Self-taught senior in high school.

(with a social life too, I might add)

I'm 21 and a senior CS undergrad.

I think age is irrelevant. I'm 31 and started coding when I was like 12, but only started getting paid for it about 3 years ago.

I'm a CS dropout :p

@retailcoder 12? That is roughly when my brother started coding.

shadowjay1

1

Not very adventurous with SO though...

trust me no arguments there, I am by far the youngest of my team by about 15 years minimum and while I'm lucky to work with some smart people some of the older developers… I would question their ability

2:38 AM

@retailcoder: I'll admit, I'm afraid for my last year. Most of the computer architecture knowledge went over my head. The only fun part was coding C projects that related to MIPS.

@apieceoffruit I wouldn't be surprised if you will overtake them in skill one day (if you stay around here long enough).

@Jamal Assembly?!?!

@Jamal you're almost done, just keep it up, you'll do fine.

While considering the code base is littered with global static variables I don't think that's a very hard task to accomplish

@apieceoffruit I've known people that have stuck with it, cleaned up the code base, gotten noticed for it, and become the project manager.

@apieceoffruit any fruit can write code that "just works".

2:39 AM

@syb0rg: Yep. I first learned x86, which I really like. Unfortunately, I screwed up something on my computer, and I can no longer use my makefiles.

@Jamal Perhaps a re-installation of the OS is required?

And C projects are fun!

When I do post my first Java program (sometime during or after my intro to OO class), I expect it to be torn to shreds. Not to mention I'm sure my C++ will show.

@syb0rg: I think it's something I've installed. I still have NASM.

@Jamal could be iTunes too (kidding)

My thoughts exactly, I found a service bus that was connecting to 6 Web services, 2 databases and active directory
at about 2000 lines of code
I made it my personal goal to re-factor in the something sensible

@Jamal You think NASM is the conflict?

2:41 AM

Uninstalled, I mean.

No, I meant that I still have NASM, so I'm missing something else. It might've been MinGW64, which I've first had installed as part of one of my classes. I've since stupidly uninstalled it, and I cannot find the exact like from the school's website. Even with other installations, I can't get it to work properly.

@Jamal Are you on Windows?

Yes.

@Jamal EWWWWW!!!!

I also have remote access to my school's Linux account.

Haha, Windows isn't the best for programming.

You could dual-boot Ubuntu and Windows.

2:45 AM

^^ (flags as opinion-based)

Unless you're working with.net it's hard to beat visual studio and resharper

@apieceoffruit you're reading my mind!!

Nah, I'm good. I've been with Windows the whole time, so I'm not ready to make a switch. Plus, I need to work on algorithm anyway. It is one of my weaknesses.

My next challenge is to master sublime text with vim

@retailcoder Do you think a challenge for creating a website is a good option?

2:48 AM

I'd love to see some kind of architecting problem I find it super fascinating to see how people approach a design problem really shows how their minds work

@syb0rg too vague. The spirit is a micro-project that can be completed within a couple of hours - a weekend if you're slow, or just busy with twin babies.

@apieceoffruit Do you have any ideas for a simple coding challenge?

tomdemuyt

Hmmm, so I might be the dinosaur with 36 years, started coding at 9

plus 4 kids, so that's like 76 really ;)

hat immediately comes to mind is a simple text adventure, or some kind of simple composite task builder kind of to do list style something with 1 million possible implementations

*what

...not hat

@apieceoffruit I like the simple text adventure idea.

2:50 AM

Yeah me too

easy to write spaghetti code for that

@apieceoffruit Also, you can edit posts up to two minutes after their posting. Like this.

^^ didn't want to say

:)

and if you say (removed), you kill a baby unicorn

Good to know :p

@apieceoffruit Also, you may want to look at some formatting options if you are going to be on the chat room a lot. They come in handy:

chat.stackexchange.com/faq#formatting

Sweet same mark down as reddit, easy to adjust to

Corbin

2:53 AM

ooo i thought only SE answer/questions were inlined for links. good to know

(I sort of hanging out in the oculus sub Reddit a lot)

@Corbin You can inline lots of awesome stuff like Wikipedia:

Cyborg

A cyborg, short for "cybernetic organism", is a being with both organic and artificial parts. See for example biomaterials and bioelectronics. The term was coined in 1960 when Manfred Clynes and Nathan S. Kline used it in an article about the advantages of self-regulating human-machine systems in outer space. D. S. Halacy's Cyborg: Evolution of the Superman in 1965 featured an introduction which spoke of a "new frontier" that was "not merely space, but more profoundly the relationship between 'inner space' to 'outer space' – a bridge...between mind and matter." The beginning of Cyborg c...

@apieceoffruit Do you own the Oculus Rift?

About half my income goes on Virtual reality, I also have the omni+stem preordered

discussion fun weekend-challenge

@apieceoffruit You may want to add your text adventure idea to the meta site so you get the recognition for it.

2

Q: Weekend Challenge #5

One single proposal per answer, most upvoted as of 2013-12-28 (12:00AM UTC) becomes our next challenge! The winning entry shall be marked as the accepted answer. This one is a little special. Let's give it a Holiday-ish twist :) index | previous challenge | next challenge

Looking at the front page I feel like making a tic-tac-toe game