Go to sleep, @quid!!

@amWhy yes ma'am. (I ate something and then meant to write one more email, and then another).

@quid Sleep well! :-)

@amWhy thanks :-)

@quid oh ! I see...

@sai-kartik if you are regularly on the site you certainly won't miss it and you can vote during a week or so.

Really leaving now...see you all.

@quid yeahh..

Also did anyone ever (in their high school days or whenever) produce a perfect silver mirror from Tollen's test ?

@quid bye!!

PÅNG

@amWhy Who knows! Best wishes until then :)

@quid could you please unfreeze this room?

I believe after @Arjun is back from his ban, we can continue our normal discussions there..

@sai-kartik normally no problem, but since it was frozen manually I hesitate a bit. Why was it frozen?

@quid inactivity i believe..

@sai-kartik I don't think so. It was closed manually (by Faded Giant), which is why I hesitate.

I'll get in touch with them and get back to you about it.

@quid yes, what i'm saying was Faded Giant froze the room thinking that it was inactive..

@quid cool!

Thanks @quid!

@sai-kartik you are welcome, it's done as you likely noticed. Please keep it civil and on-topic tough.

Well, we basically consider normal conversations to be on topic..

Was that the problem?

And I can assure you the room will be kept civil. Hindi comes as a natural manner of speaking to me and @Arjun. If you want us to change that, please do let us know..

@sai-kartik that's more or less alright. I mean this room here is also not very focused. However, if you talk about voting for each other that can give a wrong impression. I think foreign languages can be fine but in a way there is more risk of misunderstanding. For example above I "called" @amWhy REPUGNANT but it was clear from context that I did not really call her that, If we did the same in Hungarian and somebody uses auto-translate things could be confusing.

@quid I'll keep that in mind. Thanks again :)

@quid So you admit calling me REPUGNANT!!?? ;D :P

Well, fair enough, I "called you" PUNGENT!

PINGLE (JINGLE)

PUNGLE (JUNGLE)

@amWhy PONGLE (JONGLE)

@quid Now a little twist: PANGLE (DANGLE, TANGLE)

@amWhy too much twist; my head is spinning now.

@quid I know I can be complicated! ;D

@amWhy really? I never noticed that so far. :-)

@quid :-)

All words that rhyme with rhyme: DIME, MIME, TIME... THYME...

There must be more, @quid. Ahh, CRIME ...

@amWhy let me chime in.

Also SLIME with LIME.

@quid There you go! Does SUBLIME count? Anyway, LIME surely does!

@quid very good, you beat me to LIME. :P

@amWhy \o/ :-)

@quid Here we are, mathematicians, and we've yet to post PRIME!!

@amWhy indeed.

There's the simple I'M, too, @quid!

I think word games like this would help students learn English a bit better, while having fun!!

@quid In keeping with my last comment, words that rhyme with KITE would really stretch students: BITE, BYTE, BRIGHT, BLIGHT, SIGHT, SITE, CITE, MITE, MIGHT, NIGHT, FIGHT, FRIGHT, HEIGHT, NIGHT, PLIGHT, RIGHT, ...

@quid Now my head is spinning!!

@amWhy the disconnect between pronunciation and orthography is sometimes a challenge for learners of English as a second language.

Although the bigger challenge is that the spelling does not give the pronunciation.

In that sense it's more the other problem than the one we see here.

@amWhy MIDNIGHT, LIGHT, BIGHT, FAHRENHEIT

QUITE

@XanderHenderson QUITE RIGHT!

Do I get a $\huge\color{yellow}{\star}$?

I think I missed "TIGHT", too!

@quid Indeed, compare pronunciation of weight vs. height, or how context only determines how to pronounce "bow"...

And WHITE.

"The mighty mite might bite."

"I before E, except after C, and when sounded like 'A', as in 'neighbor' and 'weigh'."

:D

Oh... shoot... "Neither weird foreigner seizes leisures at their height."

break sounds like "brake", bear sounds like "bare", peak sounds like "peek" great sounds like "grate".

meat sounds like "mete"...

please sounds like "pleez"...

wear sounds like "ware" and "where", ...

pear sounds like "pare" ... learn rhymes with "earn" and "urn"...

@quid I think I'm helping to illustrate your point, @quid :-)

@amWhy yes indeed.

@quid :-)

@XanderHenderson Eight weird foreigners seize leisure at their height.

@quid, @XanderHenderson Now I'm trying to remember the sentence I was taught to type repeatedly to learn all letters on a keyboard: "The quick fox jumps over ...

@amWhy "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog"

Ahh, I found it: ""The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" contains every letter of the english alphabet.

@quid You beat me again!! :P

@amWhy no, we are on the same team! It was an assist. :-)

@quid Then \o/ + \o/

@quid "The lazy quid can jump over black weighty foxes."

I wonder what you can do when you are not lazy, and you are seldom lazy! ;D

@quid Even shorter: "Lazy quid can jump over black weighty foxes."

@amWhy very well. So lazy quid needs to jump around and what does amWhy do?

@amWhy The "ei" in "eight" is sounded like "a", as in "neighbor" and "weigh", it that exception has already been covered.

@quid Note I also added above "I wonder what you can do when you are not lazy, and you are seldom lazy!"

@XanderHenderson But the "ei" in "neither" sounds like the "ee" in "seize" and "leisure" which have also already been covered.

@amWhy well, I will consider this as attenuating. Narrow escape. ;-)

@quid Whew! Thanks!

@quid z's are hard to come by! Your username is handy for the "q" and "u"... I could have said "Crazy quid can jump over black weighty foxes!"

@quid Feel free to create an all-alphabet sentence with my username. Bet you can't make it shorter than mine! ;D

@quid $az + by+ cx +dw+ev + fu+ gt + hs+ ir+ jq+ kp+lo+mn$ There we go!!

That was supposed to be az+by+cx+dw+ev+fu+gt+hs+ir+jq+kp+lo+mn

@amWhy is that a challenge? I guess so. We'll see to that but not right now.

@quid :D Whenever you can, whenever you have the time!

@quid shakes in fear as to what might be coming her way :Z

@amWhy where is the "ee" sound covered?

also, I pronounce it with a long I

"NYE-thr"

(the "thr" has a schwa in there, but I don't know how to IPA)

"seize" and "leisure"... I told you!

Right, but that is a list of exceptions which don't follow any particular rule.

It is just a list.

@XanderHenderson Ahh, then you are all good.

:P

yay!

I'm all good!

Question: is the "t" in "often" pronounciated?

(Yes, pronounciated. Pronounced is not a silly enough word.)

I don't typically pronounce it. But some do. It might be a British English vs. American English thingy ??

Kind of like the spelling of color vs. colour?

The pronunciatization of often, as I typically say it, rhymes with "coffin", but I think both are correct pronuciatizations of the word.

(Of course, I just made up my own word to tease you, @Xander!) ;D

Maybe we should merge this chatroom with a chat in English Language and Usage! ;D

What is the pronunciation of 'often'.

@Xander See the first entry here, and a few frequently asked question below the first entry.

Arabic is way more confusing than English IMO

"You" can translate into like 6 pronouns

French is a bit similar in this manner.. having plurals for genders

@amWhy I don't pronounce it, either. The word is "offen". :\

@OmarS I don't think that this makes Arabic any more confusing. Many languages have gendered second person pronouns, plural and singular second person pronouns, and/or formal vs informal second person pronouns.

English used to have plural and singular second person pronouns ("thee" and "thou"; these double as formal and informal).

You are right! I should have made it clear that I meant it is confusing for those who are learning Arabic

i.e: non-native speakers

And some regional variants of English in the US have the second person plural "y'all".

The English language's simplicity is one of the reasons it's the most used language today

@OmarS I mean, I can't speak for learning Arabic, but English is also quite difficult for non-native speakers to learn. There are a ton of irregular verbs, weird pronunciations, etc.

@XanderHenderson this is informal though, isn't it?

@OmarS Yes, ish.

@XanderHenderson Yes, you beat me to it. I was about to say that weird pronunciations is a big issue

Examples abound.. you and @amWhy already mentioned some!

@OmarS English is not the international language of business because it is easy to learn. It is the international language of business because England colonized much of the world in the 18th and 19th Centuries, and the US economy more or less powered the world after WWII.

I can also argue that its simplicity is a factor

@OmarS I mean, you could argue that, but I think that most linguists would disagree.

@XanderHenderson But of course, colonization being the key factors

@XanderHenderson True. Opinions are never subjective :')

objective*

Maybe I am arguing that the English language is simple because I've been learning it since kindergarten

English is kind of a creole of a language: it has old Anglo/Saxon (Germanic) roots and structure, but a very large proportion of the vocabulary is essentially French (thanks to the invasion of the British Ilses by William the Conquerer in 1066). It has also borrowed extensively from other languages, as it has been used internationally for centuries.

English has one of the largest vocabularies of any language in the world, which is a hurdle for learners.

It may sound weird, but you might have come across people saying that multilinguals first think in their mother tounge..

I'm quite the opposite guy..

And, because of the influences from all over, there are many irregular verbs, strange declensions, weird spellings, and so on.

I think more in English than my native language

@sai-kartik Yes! I find it difficult sometimes to express my thoughts/ feelings in English

because it is not my native language

no matter how fluent I become, you'll always be more fluent and accustomed to your own native language

@OmarS for some reason I seldom come across such a situation!!

@OmarS not for me! I think I can fluently speak in English than Telugu (my native tounge)

@XanderHenderson Yes exactly. The vocabulary is also very flexible

@sai-kartik It's the opposite for me. I've discussed this topic with people I know and we've had the same issue

@OmarS something's probably wrong with me 🤔😬

Btw, I hope all's good at your end..

@sai-kartik I am a fluent speaker. But the language I use to talk to myself is my native tongue

@sai-kartik Haha. Probably not!

@sai-kartik Same old, same old..

@OmarS that's where we differ. I think in English too!

@OmarS aww man:/

@sai-kartik That's interesting. I think I have to do more research about this topic!

@sai-kartik All we can do is hope for the best!

@OmarS let me know when you formally start!

@OmarS yep.

There's a proverb in Arabic which roughly translates to: Despair is an infidel

@sai-kartik Sure thing!

@amWhy Just dropping by to say hello, and that a comment of yours in meta made me laugh. Thought you'd like to know you made someone's (otherwise somewhat bleak) day a little brighter. Hope you're doing well!

@TheoreticalEconomist Hello! Thanks! I'm doing well enough. How about you?

@amWhy Mostly fine, but I think lockdown has started to drive me a little crazy. Not looking forward to the inevitable re-tightening ahead...

@TheoreticalEconomist I hear you! I think it's getting to us all!

Anyone have any tips for trying to stay sane? Logging into MSE generally hasn't worked. :) @amWhy

@TheoreticalEconomist Try to include some exercise... a long walk/hike, lifting weights, skipping rope. I think the pandemic has affected a lot of us in that it's tempting to not be as active as we normally would be.

And exercise in any form I think helps us each to blow off some steam!

Yea, I was never good at exercise outside of the gym (and I used to go reasonably often). Now basically no exercise. Probably part of why I've gotten so stir-crazy.

@TheoreticalEconomist I can understand.

On the bright side, I think gyms are meant to re-open here (even if only somewhat temporarily) soon. I can no longer use the excuse of having bad knees (and hence no running) to not exercise

@TheoreticalEconomist Even taking a long walk can be a great release.

@amWhy You're right. I'll start doing a bit of that, even if only to ease myself back into something more strenuous.

@TheoreticalEconomist Indeed, doing something is better than doing nothing!

@TheoreticalEconomist Also, you can find countless home workouts on youtube, specifically made during the quarantine

you can always choose what fits you best!

@OmarS Oh yes, I have seen many of those. Good point.

Even if you're feeling lethargic, stretching is always a good alternative

@OmarS Amen, or Yoga, or Tai Chi ... All of them help one's blood flow and mindset.

@amWhy Yes ma'am! They're also easy to perform

@XanderHenderson pronunciation, not pronounciation.

A pronoun (and using pronouns: pronounciation) is an altogether different animal. :P

Welcome back, @quid!

Ready, @quid to take on the challenge to use my username in a sentence (that is not excessively long) that incorporates all letters of the English Alphabet?

@amWhy hello! Mostly just passing by for now though.

@quid No rush... I grant you a week to complete the challenge! ;D

@amWhy thanks, I have to buy some staff (hoping the shop is still open) and then I have to do some stuff for work.

Stuff.

@quid I was just going to correct you! You corrected yourself before I can! Have fun shopping!

Interesting word: "stuff".... You need to buy some stuff and do some stuff... we all use "stuff" to talk about "stuff"!

Thanks. I'm afraid it's too late but I'll see.

It's on:

@quid Yay!!

stuff: matter, material, articles, or activities of a specified or indeterminate kind that are being referred to, indicated, or implied.

do elected mods replace previous ones or just extend the existing team?

@OmarS extend the existing team.

@OmarS Extend the existing team... no one ever has to re-run to remain a moderator.

@quid You beat me to it, again!!

@quid Go try to get your stuff.

so it's annual

(the elections)

@OmarS no it is whenever we think it is needed

I thought elections were made upon the need of mods

@quid oh yes

thank you!

@quid Just did it again! Go get your stuff!

@amWhy yes, ma'am. I will report on the success upon my return, ma'am.

@quid Yes, sir! ;-)

@quid when you get back from getting the "stuff" you need, how can I track down meta posts of election questions? I would like to ask, this time around, not so much how much time can you afford to spend on math se right now, but a question about candidates' commitment to ongoing participation over the long haul (many years to come).

@amWhy Oh, I'm doing this on porpoise. :P

@amWhy you mean posts about past elections? The election should turn up most things. You can also edit the number in the url of the election page to get to past elections pages that should link to the threads.

Other than that I report, ma'am, that I have successfully secured provisions.

I would like to ask something akin to question (6) from the last election this time around. However, I think that the phrasing needs to be improved. Thoughts?

> 6. There are two basic schools of thought regarding PSQs (problem statement questions) - they should be quickly closed and deleted, or they should not be closed or deleted. With which of these two camps do you more closely align? Why? As a moderator, how would you act to enable "your" camp in dealing with or accommodating PSQs?

@quid Glad to know, sir! :-)

@XanderHenderson a very worthy question, but I'll consider how it might be improved, and feel free to chime in, everyone.

@quid "provisions" is a tad more descriptive than "stuff"! :P

> There is a great deal of tension on this site with respect to "problem statement questions" (or "PSQs"). These questions are typically short, written in an imperative voice ("Prove this..." or "Solve that..."), and are generally written in the style of a textbook exercise. How do you think that the community should respond to this type of question? As a moderator, how will you help steer the community with respect to the treatment of PSQs?

@XanderHenderson :-)

@XanderHenderson Not to mention PSQ's copied verbatim from a test: "(8) (15 points) Evaluate the following....)"

@amWhy Yeah, there's that too.

> There is a great deal of tension on this site with respect to "problem statement questions" (or "PSQs"). These questions are typically short, written in an imperative voice ("Prove this..." or "Solve that..."), and are generally written in the style of a textbook exercise, or copied verbatim from an exam ("47. (5 points) Evaluate..."). How do you think that the community should respond to this type of question?...

> ... As a moderator, how will you help steer the community with respect to the treatment of PSQs?

@quid What is happening on the meta thread, is sheer abuse. I won't sit by to watch it anymore. Thanks to you and other mods who haven't reigned i the truly problematic users on meta and main.

@quid I'm done here. I'm sick of seeing what you've all allowed to happen.

I will not participate in the upcoming election, due to the moderators on this site who have failed to keep in check the most disruptive users on this site. Good night, @quid.

@amWhy what's going on?

@quid Anyone from CURED speaking or proposing questions for the election is being lambasted. Mods have created this situation. Enjoy your new moderator.

@amWhy ma'am may I request some modicum of patience. I was just absent for a little hour. :-)

@quid You and other mods have failed to hold in check certain users, whom I would readily name.

@quid You needn't always refer to me as ma'am.

@quid You can occasionally, just as I occasionally refer to you as "sir" ;-)

Anyway, @quid anything I say can and will be used against me and any candidate I support in the upcoming election. I have the right to contact mods, but nothing will come of it.

@quid Mods have allowed one particular user on meta to get away, virtually, with murder (call it character assassination). And in all honesty, I'm sick of it. You'd never let any "trusted user" get way with what you let that particular user get away with. What power, exactly, do they hold over you???

@amWhy some things are best ignored.(I do not really ignore it though), or at least not taken too seriously. It gives a relevance to certain things that they don't even have.

I'm just really sick of the double standards. You likely know who the anonymous letter.letter person is, and you continue to protect them. That's fine. But it is not transparent why. Enjoy the election, and whoever survives the brutality of those you protect.

@quid If an answer has no relevance, then delete it, and stop deleting comments from folks who speak more honestly.

@amWhy Sometimes it is best to take things at face value; I think this is such a case.

@amWhy I strongly recommend that you approach this in a calm way.

As I said, I cannot afford to participate in this election, because whatever I say will be used against me and the candidates I support. This is the climate you helped condone and protect, @quid.

@amWhy alright. Then that's that.

@quid That's exactly what you want, right? Me to not participate in any way shape or form in this election. You might as well tell me to leave this site. Thanks.

@amWhy no what I want is that you participate in a measured way.

You make such great contributions. It really hurts to see you sabotage what you build.

@amWhy As I see it, there is a cohort of sh*t stirrers who are trying to influence the election. My hope is, that as the election gets rolling, their voices will be drowned out.

If you are at all familiar with the science fiction community, this is kind of a "sad puppies" kind of thing.

Having read the linked to meta.se question I am not even sure this is about what one might think it is about.

It is also not quite clear if the user that posted it realizes this.

"Is it the case that SE has or actively does suffer from similar issues? Say for example, would it profit Foo Incorporated, a competitor to The Bar Foundation, to hire a few people to actively monitor their respected tags, looking to harass Anti-Foo contributors, questions, answers, and tags while promoting all things Pro-Bar?"

Seems pretty irrelevant to our site.

I have not clue what you mean in your last four comments.

@quid I did not sabotage anything. And Bull-crap...you don't see any of my contributions as "great".

@amWhy :-(

@amWhy I mean that I do not understand what the question that is upsetting even asks about.

That's a problem with that question.

@XanderHenderson Yes, indeed. I hope they are drowned out. Because the mods have enabled them thus far to spew sh*t on this site.

The meta.se question that is linked is not about phenomena intrinsic the site.

Instead it is about a fear that somebody might manipulated SE sites to influence other things.

@quid ???

@amWhy that is what the meta.se question asked for

@quid This meta question is about a fear that somebody might manipulated[sic] Se sites to influence other things?

@amWhy that's not a meta.se question

@quid Then I don't know what you're referring to.

The proposed question that you do not appreciate contains a link to a meta.se question.

I am talking about that meta.se question and thus by extension what is even meant exactly by the question proposed for our election.