English Language Learners

CopperKettle

06:56

@user4215 - that was a nice question, I mean the question on stood up. I haven't heard this expression before.

user4215

08:19

yeah?

me neither

Obama makes mistakes too

CopperKettle

No, it was not a mistake. It's an expression borrowed from the military sphere. "To make someone stand to attention", to put someone in charge, to focus their efforts on some issue.

And merry Xmas to you, @user4215!

user4215

where's the source?

CopperKettle

08:37

@user4215 : (US, military, transitive) To formally activate and commission (a unit, formation, etc.).

stand up

Verb: stand up (third-person singular simple present stands up, present participle standing up, simple past and past participle stood up)

(intransitive) To rise from a lying or sitting position.
(transitive) To bring something up and set it into a standing position.
(transitive, idiomatic) To avoid a prearranged meeting, especially a date, with (a person) without prior notification; to jilt or shirk.
(intransitive, of a thing) To last or endure over a period of time.
(intransitive, of a person or narrative) To continue to be believable, consistent, or plausible.

(2 more not shown…)

Well, maybe it is somewhat close to "set up", I'm not savvy in the usage of this term. The fact is it does exist.

user4215

08:54

Yeah?

Ask the person who said it or his language advisor...

No more; this could escalate into a lèse-majesté case.

@CopperKettle

skullpatrol

09:19

Merry Christmas everybody :-)

CopperKettle

Merry Xmas to you too, @skullpatrol! Happy patrolling!

Damkerng T.

09:34

@skullpatrol Merry Christmas!

CopperKettle

17:02

A very interesting question. "We made a stop. After making a stop, we moved on."

2

Q: Some questions about articles

I think the question is rather philisophical. I wonder if articles are used to make what we say more clear and using zero/indefinite article with the noun known or already introduced can be the reference to that noun or any other since we do not specify. Like here: I was walking with some f...

Damkerng T.

19:27

Hmm... I think both a and the are possible. (Haven't read the question yet.)

> I saw a man. There was a man standing behind the great oak tree on the left of our farm.

CopperKettle

Good evening, @DamkerngT.! I wrote that both a and the are possible, but F.E. said it was not so really, so I remodeled my answer.

Damkerng T.

Did he say that it has to be a for this one? (Still haven't read it, though.)

CopperKettle

He said that it should be "We made a stop. After making the stop, we moved on."

Damkerng T.

Ahh

CopperKettle

But he added that the sentences are construed in a non-native way. He proposed a native wording, which I added to my reply, referencing him.

Damkerng T.

19:40

I think the problem was the way the sentence was phrased. I still don't know which stop they made after hearing We made a stop. The only thing I can gather is only it's the stop they just made. Whatever that stop is (or was).

CopperKettle

I thought it was okay, with the meaning "we stopped for awhile".

Damkerng T.

(Was it a bus stop? Was it an end of some activity? I think I'd need more context.)

CopperKettle

"The mars rover traveled 400 meters, then made a stop, then traveled another 300 meters, then made a stop."

Damkerng T.

Now that's much better because I can visualize what was going on.

CopperKettle

Maybe we need a native speaker to pronounce their judgement on "making a/the stop".

Damkerng T.

19:43

I think a is possible in some styles of narrative. The author may intentionally leave the reader wonder all the way through the end what the story is all about.

CopperKettle

Maybe..

23

Q: Can brain cells move?

I was discussing this with my brother. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they can move. Thanks EDIT: By movement I mean long distance migration (preferably within the brain only).

cell-biology neuroscience

Damkerng T.

The is probably safer for all intents and purposes, I'd guess. Dunno.

Oh!

CopperKettle

Yes they can, and they move all the time.

Damkerng T.

Interesting.

CopperKettle

Even then their somas don't move, they create new connections, grow new dendritic spines.

Damkerng T.

19:46

The thought of brain cells movement has never occurred to me!

nods -- I think I can imagine they grow and make new connections.

Can they move over other cells? Or do they just move to reach out the others?

CopperKettle

There are cells called radial glia that serve as "rails" for neuronal precursors to move to their pre-programmed places

That happens in the developing brain.

Damkerng T.

Interesting how they kept track of the migration. I guess that the researchers must have devised some good way to cope with the problem.

Ah, I can't upvote your answer! Not a member there. :D

Very interesting anyway. Thanks!

CopperKettle

This is a very complex field I guess. There's one famous guy Pasko Rakic who had a collection of monkey brain slices in different stages of development.

"According to Nature Medicine, his first experiments required "a special grant, nearly 200 rhesus monkeys and so much radioactive thymidine that manufacturers had to retool their entire production system to provide it.""

"He and his team then sliced the brain of each monkey into 7,000 sections for the benefit of future researchers"

He got the Kavli neurosci prize in 2008

Damkerng T.

nods

I believe that it must have been controversial.

CopperKettle

Yes, I guess.. but there's a lot of diseases that stem from one or other flinch in neuronal migration

Damkerng T.

19:54

Oh, I didn't know that.

CopperKettle

Like lissencephaly, "the smooth brain", without the gyri and sulci

To psychiatric diseases, in which there are some signs of disruption to signaling cascades governing neuronal migration..

Damkerng T.

That sounds a bit scary.

CopperKettle

Sounds inspiring to me. This was a total black box 30 years ago, and now very much is known.

What could be understood, could be fixed.

The police prohibited one bicycle ride on 31 December 2014.

Seems they're afraid.

So we'll try to ride illegaly.

Damkerng T.

Only during the New Year?

Hehe!

CopperKettle

Damkern, the Russian Constitution has Article 31 which states that citizens can gather peacefully at any time in any public place.

Our Govt. tries to crack down on any gatherings.

So on the 31st of each month some obstinate people gather to honor the 31st article.

Damkerng T.

20:03

Ahh

CopperKettle

Often they get arrested for this.

This time, the govt. is really afraid, in the previous years they weren't so wary of the harmless bicyclists

But I bet the rank-and-file policemen won't stop bicyclists, they don't much care.

Damkerng T.

nods

CopperKettle

There are rumours that Facebook may be forbidden after January 1.

But luckily it opened a mirror in the Tor network.

Damkerng T.

Oh, that's a little... strange, I think.

Hehe!

CopperKettle

Under a new law due to come in force on Jan 1, all social network sites must keep information (the hardware storing user infos) inside Russia

Facebook said it's a no-no

Oops, it's 1 am, I need to go to sleep, have one thing to do early.

Damkerng T.

20:09

Rest well!

CopperKettle

Good night, @DamkerngT.!

Anonymous

22:58

@CopperKettle Well, I'm a native speaker, for what it's worth, so if you ask me something specific I can try my best to answer :-)

Anonymous

But I don't see the specific question in the chat logs

Damkerng T.

I think it's a curious use of a vs. the in many levels. But one thing is rather certain, imo. The way the OP phrased the idea isn't quite idiomatic, at least in a typical conversation

7

Q: Does the indefinite article provide optional clarification?

I think the question is rather philisophical. I wonder if articles are used to make what we say more clear and using zero/indefinite article with the noun known or already introduced can be the reference to that noun or any other since we do not specify. Like here: I was walking with some f...

grammar articles

And merry Christmas!

Anonymous

You too!

Anonymous

I think the appropriate stereotyped response to "Merry Christmas!" is "Merry Christmas!" and not "You too!"

Anonymous

But for some reason I feel a little bit awkward following the proper stereotyped conversation patterns

Damkerng T.

23:05

Prolly. You too is fine for me, though.

Anonymous

You too! is a magical phrase. It's always appropriate! "Hey, would you like some tea?" "You too!" "I liked that movie." "You too!" "Oh my god, did you see that? The driver in the car ahead of us is crazy!" "You too!"

Damkerng T.

:D

Anonymous

> I was walking with some friends. (??)Friends were very funny.

Anonymous

More likely: They were really funny.

Damkerng T.

nods -- Unless the speaker were trying to be zen-ish, "Friends were very funny" is rather weird.

Anonymous

23:09

"Friends are very funny." ← This works using the simple present with non-referential friends to make a general statement

Anonymous

The simple past doesn't work that way.

Anonymous

Well, I mean, it could, but, ...

Anonymous

It seems unlikely that you want to communicate what that sentence expresses

Anonymous

And following the other sentence, it's even less likely

Anonymous

It's not ungrammatical, but …

Anonymous

23:11

Unless you invent a rather contrived context for it, it'll basically ping any native speaker's wrongdar

Damkerng T.

nods -- I think it requires a very weird mentally acrobatic exercise to make sense of it.

Hey, I like "wrongdar"!

Anonymous

-dar is somewhat productive in informal conversation these days :-)

Damkerng T.

beep-beep-beep, beep, beep...!

Anonymous

Say, what was the specific part of the question you and Copper Kettle were discussing?

Damkerng T.

I think it was about making a stop.

Anonymous

23:13

I feel like I'm just picking something at random out of the post and commenting on it.

Anonymous

But really what I wanted to do was address whatever you two were discussing :-)

Anonymous

> We made a stop. After making a stop, we moved on.

Damkerng T.

He posted the question on the chat, and I didn't read the question and posted this:

4 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

Hmm... I think both a and the are possible. (Haven't read the question yet.)

Anonymous

"I posted this without reading the question"

Damkerng T.

Thanks!

Anonymous

23:14

Hmm, why does "didn't read the question and posted this" sound funny …

Anonymous

Reminds me of 〜なくて and 〜ないで

Damkerng T.

Hard to say. I think it describes what happened in the wrong order.

(However, that was exactly the order I recalled the event in real time.)

Anonymous

Here's one random idea: it places them in order, but "didn't read the question" is something that didn't actually take place, so it doesn't have a precise order

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

You didn't finish not reading the question and then post something :-)

Damkerng T.

23:16

I recalled that I didn't read the question before recalling that I posted a comment about the question!

Anonymous

Ah!

Anonymous

Well, if we ignore recalling for a moment

Anonymous

The state of not having read the question continued while you posted "this"

Anonymous

Hmm

Damkerng T.

"I posted this without reading the question" can describe exactly that.

Anonymous

23:19

> We made a stop. After making a stop, we moved on.

Damkerng T.

nods -- To me, it seems like both making a stop and making the stop are possible.

Anonymous

I'm fairly certain you're correct

Damkerng T.

It sounds like the author (or the speaker) doesn't want me to know what that stop is.

Anonymous

I think the would be the unmarked choice, but

Anonymous

Definiteness is really challenging to analyze.

Damkerng T.

23:23

Indeed!

Anonymous

Let's try thinking about it this way:

Anonymous

I can't guarantee that this will make any sense whatsoever.

Anonymous

> We [ made a stop ]. After [ making a stop ], we moved on.
> We made [ a stop ]. After making [ the stop ], we moved on.

2

Damkerng T.

Hey, that's perfectly aligned with my thought!

Anonymous

I feel like if I conceptualize make a stop as a single unit, I can carry it over and repeat it with the indefinite article

Anonymous

23:25

Whereas if I'm actually thinking about the stop, and I want to refer back to it, I'll use the because I've already introduced it

Damkerng T.

(But much clearer.)

Anonymous

So it depends on how I'm thinking about it

Anonymous

That explanation is just based on my intuition that if I say a, I'm treating make a stop as a single chunk

Anonymous

23:47

In any case, it's certainly interesting that speakers have given judgments that disagree with one another

Anonymous

Although I don't know if we can necessarily conclude anything from that

Damkerng T.

It's rather difficult because the OP's context is incomplete. I think it's fair that different speakers will assume different contexts.

Oh, new HDDs look nice, but it requires SATA-3. Maybe I should check the specs of the mainboards I have.

Ah, all my boards support SATA-3. :D

Anonymous

Ah, that shouldn't be a problem anyway―it's backwards compatible, just slower

Damkerng T.

I found a Seagate 4TB at 167 USD.

Anonymous

Nice!

Anonymous

23:55

Prices have come back down.

Anonymous

Well, prices have stayed roughly the same since they recovered from the floods, but capacities have gone up :-)

Damkerng T.

Hee. The flood had quite an effect. :-)

Anonymous

Did it affect you directly?

Damkerng T.

I remember that they mentioned 40% of all HDDs were made in Thailand during the flood. So it affected the price, globally.

I think the price got back to normal within a year.

So I hadn't bought any new HDDs for a few years already. (since then, actually)

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