English Language Learners

Damkerng T.

05:57

3

A: What is the difference between "pleasant for" and "pleasant to"?

The nuance lies in adjective + to and adjective + for. I'll try to address that. I had answered this here, but this time, I'll be clearer. Of course, it all depends on the context. Many times, using to or for with those adjectives may go unnoticed because, broadly, to many, it may mean the same...

Hmm...

Damkerng T.

06:52

It took me a while before I can realize what exactly (imo) in the answer is misleading.

user62015

10:00

Hi!

Anyone there to help?

Damkerng T.

I'm not in good condition to help at the moment. :D

user62015

That's fine.

Damkerng T.

Except for something trivial, perhaps.

user62015

I am going to ask the question now. You may answer it later.

I have a question. I have been reading "Dream A Little Dream" and I read a sentence which sounded good to me! But I have a question why did the writer write the sentence in this way she could do it in another way easily. Is it same or maybe has some different sense this is what I need to know here: "Maybe you have God mixed up with Santa Claus." I think it should have been "maybe you have mixed up God with Santa Claus."

This is just I want to know!!!

Tag my name please so I can find it easily.

Damkerng T.

The two alternatives mean pretty much the same thing.

user62015

10:07

I agree.

But my option sounds more common, doesn't it?

Damkerng T.

I can't really tell which one is more common. They both sound fine to my ear. They just focus on different things.

"Maybe you have God mixed up with Santa Claus." <-- [God mixed up with Santa Claus] is what you have (maybe).

"Maybe you have mixed up God with Santa Claus." <-- Maybe you have done it! You have mixed them up!

Wait a minute.

I think it should be "Maybe you have mixed God up with Santa Claus."

(I meant your alternative.)

Gotta go. See you later.

user62015

10:45

Sure. I will wait for your answer.

StoneyB

13:24

@user62015 This expression illustrates a common way of using have which (I think) is rarely taught, so it would make an excellent Question on the main site. I urge you to post it there.

user62015

15:46

Hi!

Damkerng T.

16:57

0

A: Verb tenses trouble

A: Is it a new camera? B: No, I have/'ve had it for a long time. Present perfect, you use to talk about something in the past that may still be happening now, i.e. you still have your camera. A: This is a nice restaraunt. Do you come here often? B: No, it's the first time I com...

> A: This is a nice restaraunt. Do you come here often?
B: No, it's the first time I come here.

I think I expect the answer to be "No, it's the first time I've come here."

user62015

Hi!

How are you doing?

I hope, I am not disturbing you.

Damkerng T.

Hi, I'm okay. Have you asked it on the main?

user62015

No. I haven't asked yet.

Is it possible to get the answer here in a short way.

I hope, I will understand just by the small hint.

Damkerng T.

I reread what I wrote and I think that's pretty much it.

user62015

If possible for you than only.

Damkerng T.

17:03

StoneyB also mentioned the have X done pattern.

user62015

Yes. So you think that my option was the better one?

Damkerng T.

Not really. It'll be like you are talking to the same event but from a different angle.

user62015

Yes.

So, Could you explain it to me one more time or should I post it on the main website?

Damkerng T.

It's also possible that the original gave a hint at the sense of have X done, though I don't really expect it, seeing what the subject is.

You could post it on the main.

user62015

Sure. I will do it.

Thank you so much.

I will ping you soon with more question. -:) By the way Merry Christmas. -:))

Damkerng T.

17:08

It's more likely to get good answers on the main, or so I hope. :D

Ah! Merry Christmas!

user62015

I agree.

Welcome. See you soon.

Bye.

Damkerng T.

See you later!

I've made an attempt at looking up another entry, attempt. It doesn't say "try = attempt". In B2, it says that attempt (n.) is "the act of trying to do something, especially something difficult". — Damkerng T. 7 hours ago

@DamkerngT. But then the same dictionary uses both! They closed the road in an attempt (= to try to) to reduce traffic in the city.. That's why I wrote 'quite similar...' in my answer. However, I also said that in some context, one word will be preferred over another. — Maulik V 7 hours ago

sigh -- Maybe I shouldn't have made any comment.

Anonymous

18:40

@DamkerngT. Seems reasonable!

user116848

Hello!

Dan

@Farooq hello

skullpatrol

Hi pal

user116848

@Dan Hi Dan!

Dan

@Farooq Hi, how are you?

user116848

18:52

@Dan I am fine, thanks. What about you?

Anonymous

Hey, the ELL chat is full of people today! :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Thanks!

@snailboat Hooray!

Hello @Farooq @Dan

Anonymous

It looks like FumbleFingers left a comment suggesting "It's the first time I've been here" would be more common

Anonymous

That does sound likely to be true

Dan

@Farooq pretty good

Damkerng T.

18:55

I wasn't sure about the preferences in different dialects.

Dan

@DamkerngT. hello

Damkerng T.

@Dan Your rabbit is wearing a hat!

Dan

@DamkerngT. indeed!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I guess if FF and I like the same thing, then it's likely to be similar in AmE and BrE :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Ahh

Anonymous

18:56

Of course, there are more varieties of English than just those two dialect groups.

Anonymous

@Farooq Is the Writers.SE weekly event happening today?

Anonymous

I got a notification again.

user116848

@snailboat Yes, it is. The topic is "Christmas".

user116848

I am thinking what to write.

user116848

Currently writing...

Anonymous

19:01

Oh, that's an interesting topic. I don't exactly celebrate Christmas myself, but I live in the US where it's a big deal anyway

Damkerng T.

Hmm... It's strange that movie channels on my cable seem not to have as many Christmas movies as they did last year.

Except for Fox Family Channel, I think.

Oh, I think Die Hard 2 counts as a seasonal movie.

Anonymous

It seems like Christmas gets celebrated in lots of places that aren't really predominantly Christian

Anonymous

In Japan, they have something called Christmas cake!

Dan

@snailboat it's good for business, consumer holiday

Anonymous

@Dan Sure. 'Tis the time of year for 20% off at Guitar Center!

Damkerng T.

19:10

Oh, I haven't checked app stores. Maybe a lot of discounts are out there!

Dan

@snailboat exactly! and don't forget all the holidays/appreciation-days the greeting card industry now pushes

gotta buy a card

Damkerng T.

(But I want to buy a new PC, not some apps. :-)

Anonymous

If you have the time and inclination, I think handmade cards are a lot nicer :-)

Dan

@snailboat I agree.

Damkerng T.

> http://ell.stackexchange.com/q/43782/3281
Wash your hands often, _____ you won't catch a cold.
1. or 2. and 3. so 4. if 5. as

That reminds me of "Give me what I want, and I'll go away."

@Jesse But "a number of X" is normally used with plural verbs (though singular verbs is also possible). — Damkerng T. 13 mins ago

Anonymous

19:23

Hmm … ① and ④ don't appear to make much sense.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I wrote something ungrammatical again. It happens almost every time I don't re-read what I wrote. :D

@snailboat LOL!

Anonymous

④ kind of does: "Wash your hands often, as you won't catch a cold [if you do]."

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Anonymous

② and ③ both appear to make sense

Anonymous

Hey, guess what I did? I added circled numerals to my input method's dictionary.

Anonymous

19:25

Guess who's going to use circled numerals all the time? :-)

Damkerng T.

Nice!

Anonymous

If that question were on a test, I wouldn't be confident I could pick the right answer

Damkerng T.

I starred the message so I can find them in case I want to use some. :D

Anonymous

But I guess they want ③

Damkerng T.

I guessed so, too.

Anonymous

19:26

→　①　②　③　④　⑤　⑥　⑦　⑧　⑨　⑩　←　Circled numerals

2

Anonymous

You can star that one instead!

Anonymous

I threw in Unicode arrows as a bonus!

Damkerng T.

Big thanks!

user116848

19:39

in The Overlook Hotel, 10 mins ago, by Farooq

@MattЭллен Christmas

Anonymous

20:09

@DamkerngT. Hmm

Anonymous

The comments and answers there suggest that and is wrong

Anonymous

I agree that the test makers probably want so, but why would and be wrong?

Anonymous

Jesse wrongly states that and doesn't indicate cause and effect

Anonymous

Let's make up an example:

Anonymous

> Give me your wallet and maybe I'll let you live!

Anonymous

20:11

Simple coordination. Let's try reversing it:

Anonymous

> Maybe I'll let you live and give me your wallet!

Anonymous

Oops, it stopped making sense …

Anonymous

Why could that be?

Damkerng T.

20:28

I think people usually overlook and. It seems to be too trivial for most people to want to get to understand what and is, and all of us basically already can understand and just fine. Dunno.

In any case, I think the OP has a good point. I think and is equally good, and could be a better choice, even!

StoneyB

@snailboat Declerck & Reed treat this use of and as a "paratactic conditional*. A, and B is equivalent to If A, then B, so of course it doesn't make sense if you reverse it. "Touch that cake and I'll chop your hand off" = "If you touch that cake I'll chop your hand off", but ∗"If I chop your hand off you'll touch that cake" ...

2

Hi's guys.

Damkerng T.

@StoneyB Hello! (Nice explanation, by the way!)

StoneyB

@snailboat I had no idea those were there.

CopperKettle

I dropped in to star your post, Stoney, and discovered it's already starred (0:

Good late evening everyone (0:

Damkerng T.

Good evening!

StoneyB

20:42

I think that's the first time I've ever gotten two stars. At last my hours slaving over a hot CGEL are paying off!

CopperKettle

heh

StoneyB

@CopperKettle Good mid-afternoon!

CopperKettle

thanks! It's 01:44 am here, and have been trying to get myself sleepy by reading "Far from the Madding Crowd", to no avail

Anonymous

@CopperKettle The first Language Log book is titled Far from the Madding Gerund :-)

CopperKettle

(0:

At one end of the street stood from two to three hundred blithe and hearty labourers waiting upon Chance -- all men of the stamp to whom labour suggests nothing worse than a wrestle with gravitation, and pleasure nothing better than a renunciation of the same.

beautiful language

StoneyB

20:49

@snailboat Followed by Tess of the Deverbalvilles?

CopperKettle

lol

StoneyB

@CopperKettle I have never read as much Hardy as I should. He's awfully good.

CopperKettle

@StoneyB Indeed. I first read Jude the Obscure about 10 years ago, and liked it very much.

He writes poetically.

StoneyB

He was a very fine poet, really a pioneer in abandoning the 'poetic diction' which dominated Victorian poetry despite the Romantics. I just read, for the first time, my father's doctoral dissertation on Hardy's poetry.

CopperKettle

Oh, your father was a linguist?

Poetic diction

Poetic diction is the term used to refer to the linguistic style, the vocabulary, and the metaphors used in the writing of poetry. In the Western tradition, all these elements were thought of as properly different in poetry and prose up to the time of the Romantic revolution, when William Wordsworth challenged the distinction in his Romantic manifesto, the Preface to the second (1800) edition of Lyrical Ballads (1798). Wordsworth proposed that a "language near to the language of men" was as appropriate for poetry as it was for prose. This idea was very influential, though more in theory than practice...

StoneyB

20:59

No, an English professor.

CopperKettle

I only read several poems by Hardy, they are good. Sad a little.

"Just neutral-tinted haps and such"

StoneyB

He taught me a very quirky version of traditional grammar; so quirky that I actually found "modern" grammar pretty easy when I started studying a couple-three years ago.

CopperKettle

oh. Was it based on some old textbooks or did he invent his own system? I gathered my grammar in bits and pieces (and still incompletely)..

StoneyB

Well, World, you have kept faith with me, Kept faith with me; Upon the whole you have proved to be Much as you said you were.

CopperKettle

Yes, it took me awhile to decode what haps meant. (0:

But this poem is very good.

StoneyB

21:05

@CopperKettle I have no idea, because I wasn't much into academics when I was ten years old! But I keep running into scraps of what he told me: like "Tense is an attribute of sentences, not of verbs; verbs just have to agree with the tense, not express it."

"You don't do it this way because it's right; you do it this way because it can't be misunderstood."

CopperKettle

@StoneyB Oh, I see.

I was writing Russian with no mistakes at school but hated grammar, especially learning rules..

@StoneyB Yes, I remember somebody saying that there's a tug of war in every language between saying everything the right way and saying it in a shorter way. If something can be understood in a sentence which is "not right", but short, it gets adopted by the language.

StoneyB

By the way, you've moved me to look up the answer to your Hardy question.

CopperKettle

Oh, thanks! I'll read it now.

StoneyB

I actually love grammar. It's a sort of theology for me: discovering the True Will of Great Mother English.

2

But there are lots of bad theologians out there!

CopperKettle

21:24

To me, it becomes interesting when I try to understand some point in order to explain it to a person who learns English. But if I were left on a desert island, I'd take almost any other book over a grammar treatise.

If I were really obsessed with grammar, I'd start with Chomsky's theories, since they are so often mentioned.

.. just in order to see what they are. But I guess I'm not so obsessed with it. (0:

StoneyB

Well, if grammar is theology, Chomsky is Martin Luther! ... I just missed Chomsky in college; Syntactic Structures was only 8 years old when I did my minor in linguistics, and I was mostly interested in historical linguistics.

CopperKettle

Yes, Chomsky seems to be an iconoclast. But I guess I'm at last falling asleep. Good night, StoneyB!

This day will be 17 seconds longer. Yay. (0:

StoneyB

21:43

Sleep tight. I'm gonna go cook dinner.

Anonymous

22:08

One of my snails just ended up upside down and very confused!

Anonymous

I put them right side up :-)

Damkerng T.

22:46

@snailboat Good for them!

Anonymous

It was Moon!

Damkerng T.

Ah, upside-down Moon!

Hmm... I haven't bought a PC with UEFI before. Would it be a trouble for Linux? I wonder.

I think I'm going to buy one board from Alibaba (to replace a broken one) and one PC from local store. Fanless PCs have to wait.

Anonymous

It should be fine

Anonymous

help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI

Damkerng T.

I just hope that I can disable UEFI directly in the BIOS, and everything would be perfectly fine. :-)

(The latest machine I bought last year has CMS mode. Can't remember its full name, but it disables UEFI, which is nice.)

@snailboat Thanks for the link. Bookmarked!

Oh, the article also mentions "Disabling SecureBoot in the BIOS".

0

Q: Is "level of education of women" correct?

Given the following pie charts: The pie charts above show the highest level of education of women in Someland in 1945 and in 2005. I have been told that the following sentence should be corrected as follows: Original sentence The two pie charts compare the highest level of educat...

> 1. The two pie charts compare the highest level of education of women in Someland between 1945 and 2005 as percentage of the entire female population.

> 2. The two pie charts compare the highest level of education for women in Someland between 1945 and 2005 as percentage of the entire female population.

I think I like 1 better.

But I would phrase it as the highest level of women education in Someland.

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English Language Learners