English Language Learners

Anonymous

02:59

I've found myself upvoting meatie more often lately

Damkerng T.

03:31

@snailboat Oh! :-)

Freddy

05:00

can anyone help me with Figure of speech?

I am not able to understand "synecdoche"

my books defines it as "A part stand for a whole or a whole stand for a part to create poetic effect"

Eg. Efface footprint in the sand.

Damkerng T.

05:16

"Unlike organic brains, a positronic brain can live forever."

A positronic brain is just one part of a robot, and yet it's used to refer to one whole robot.

I'm not an expert on the taxonomy of figures of speech; I'm more comfortable as a user.

Freddy

Ok so in my example we can say footprint represent a person.

am i right?

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure about "efface footprint in the sand". It might be clearer if we know what it was used for. Probably our lives?

I'm not very familiar with "efface footprint in the sand".

My guess based on my first language is, the footprint refers to our lives. A footprint is very short-lived.

Freddy

The tide rises, the tide falls,
The twilight darkens, the curlew calls;
Along the sea-sands damp and brown
The traveler hastens toward the town,
And the tide rises, the tide falls.
Darkness settles on roofs and walls,
But the sea, the sea in darkness calls;
The little waves, with their soft, white hands
**Efface the footprints in the sands**,
And the tide rises, the tide falls.
The morning breaks; the steeds in their stalls
Stamp and neigh, as the hostler calls;
The day returns, but nevermore
Returns the traveler to the shore.

Damkerng T.

Oh, this sounds like "footprint" refers to whatever we do in our lives.

Freddy

I think initially you were right

Damkerng T.

05:26

But more literally, the footprints were made by the traveler.

Freddy

because this is also mark as Euphemism

Damkerng T.

@Freddy I think you are right too, about footprints represent a person.

Freddy

@DamkerngT. there is one more about passive voice!

"The people will make him president"(choose the correct passive voice)

i have been given 4 option and i am confused between two of them

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure about your question. Is it about converting a given sentence into the passive voice?

"He will be made president by the people."

Freddy

Yes that what i thought

but answer given is "for the people"

MCQ makes grammer more confusing

Damkerng T.

05:36

Strange. "For the people" makes sense, but it doesn't match the active voice version.

Freddy

both the options are given "for the people" and "by the people"

i think thats typo

Damkerng T.

> I bought a book for my mom.
My mom made me buy that book. <-- Wait, this doesn't sound like the same story!

Freddy

Here comes snailboat!

Damkerng T.

Hooray!

Our day is saved!

Freddy

@snailboat first about figure of speech "Efface the footprints in the sands"

Damkerng T.

05:41

> "Fans picked up the chant."
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/36819/pick-up-the-chant
^It's interesting that some native speakers found that usage odd.

Freddy

108

Music Fans

Proposed Q&A site for music historians, critics, and fans.

Currently in commitment.

I want this SE on beta, please commit

Damkerng T.

Oh, this is odd! It's hard to not hear the sounds in our first languages! I left a movie channel on, and it was supposed to show Hollywood movies, and I didn't pay much attention to it, and suddenly the TV shouted something in Thai! Then, I realized that the movie was "The Man with the Golden Gun"!

Oh, the proposal was edited by "abby hairboat"! Another -boat user!

Freddy

hehehe

Damkerng T.

Okay, I committed!

I might ask some music related questions there some day!

Freddy

@DamkerngT. . boring movie!

Damkerng T.

05:53

I read what I wrote again, and I think "hard not to hear" sounds a thousand times better than "hard to not hear"...

@Freddy LOL

Freddy

from last 15 minutes i was wondering why my internet is so slow!!

I restarted my router twice

Damkerng T.

Sometimes it happens!

I'm outta here. See you later!

Freddy

and now i realize it was because i have forget to pause to downloading movies, lol

@DamkerngT. Bye

Ice Boy

later pal

Freddy

06:14

How to identify "Metonymy" ?

my book defines it as

"An attribution or a thing is represent by another closely related o it"

e.g.--> Though as for that the passing there.

Freddy

17:09

no message from more than 11 hours!!

Damkerng T.

17:43

@Freddy We just got one. Yours!

Anonymous

@Freddy Sorry, as much as it might seem like I do, I can't actually chat 24x7 :-)

Damkerng T.

@Freddy See? We just got another message! :-)

I think my eyesight is getting longer. I probably need a new pair of eyeglasses.

Freddy

@DamkerngT. Robo does not need eyeglass!! lol

Damkerng T.

This one does! --WHIRRRR!

Damkerng T.

18:18

1

Q: I figured it out!

Could a native English speaker use the phrase "I figured it out!" in an internet forum if he/she has suddenly understood something? Or would he/she say something like "I've got it!" The matter is, one fellow (Russian native) translator said that an English speaker wouldn't use a phrase in the p...

tense

It seems so simple, yet it's very difficult for non-native speakers.

Anonymous

@Freddy Robo needs replacement anterior focal lens

Anonymous

Robo has gone out of alignment!

Freddy

@DamkerngT. i am non-native speaker, but i never face such problem. I think it is because of different environment than other students living around.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat If only the Robot had retractable zoom lenses, that wouldn't be a problem!

Anonymous

@Freddy It probably depends on the speaker. I think every speaker is different, whether native or non-

Damkerng T.

18:25

@Freddy Interesting! By the way, do you like the answer?

Freddy

Nope

Damkerng T.

nods

Freddy

Do you guys watch sitcoms like "Big Bang Theory" or "Two or Half Man"?

Damkerng T.

I had, not that many episodes, tough.

Two and a Half Men? I guess.

Freddy

I think you will enjoy Big Bang Theory or How I meet your Mother.

Damkerng T.

18:33

I remember that it was more like I "read" them, rather than watched them.

They're a little too quirky for me. :-) I like something simpler, or maybe more fantasy (fantasier!), like sci-fi.

Admittedly, they were wittily quibbling with each other, like a lot, and that could be fun to watch. :-)

> “Spring is warm in France” vs. “France is warm in spring”

Sounds like Zen!

Freddy

Bedtime need to go. Good time everyone!

Damkerng T.

Have a good sleep. See you around!

Anonymous

18:52

@DamkerngT. I left a comment on the answer

Damkerng T.

Yay!

user116848

Hello

user116848

in The Overlook Hotel, 15 mins ago, by Arrowfar

@KitFox Bully

user116848

Once again a sad story. haha. I like to write sad stories :-)

user116848

Just kidding

Damkerng T.

19:03

@Arrowfar Hi!

user116848

@DamkerngT. Hi

Anonymous

1. Being → When I was
2. Like I → Like me
3. of whole class → of the whole class
4. "answer the teacher's answers" is unclear to me―answer the teacher's questions?
5. Maybe split up the next sentence about the joke into multiple parts?
6. took that joke to the heart → took that joke to heart

user116848

Thanks!

user116848

I had a grammar question too

user116848

@snailboat Instead of using "would" again and again I wrote "Even the teachers scolded them...." to mean past habit. Does it sound like one time only?

user116848

19:07

Because I wrote it in the past habit sense.

user116848

Is it clear?

Anonymous

@Arrowfar I understood it as past habitual

user116848

I wrote this by timing myself without even thinking about the story in 10 minutes. That's why it looks odd :D

Anonymous

The story is divided into two parts

Anonymous

The first sets the scene (past habitual), saying what happened in general

Anonymous

19:09

The second talks about a specific event, the final straw

Anonymous

That's the sense that I got from reading it

Anonymous

"So, one time" is the dividing line between the two parts

Anonymous

That changes it from a past habitual sense to simple past

Anonymous

Though there was one more past habitual sentence later "Mostly their rude comments and jokes were to harass the good graders to make them lack behind in studies." for contrast

user116848

I see. Good break-up into parts haha

user116848

19:12

So, some people jokingly say that it is a waste of 10 mins. But I like this weekly exercise because I like the idea of timing myself and writing a story without thinking about it beforehand :-)

Anonymous

@Arrowfar That doesn't sound like a very nice joke

user116848

I know :-)

Damkerng T.

It's actually a good exercise.

user116848

I use this stopwatch. Matt gave me the link once.

user116848

online-stopwatch.com/timer/10minutes

Damkerng T.

19:13

I have a chicken timer. :-)

Anonymous

I used to have timers, but now I just use the timer on my phone

Anonymous

Although in the kitchen I usually use one of the timers on the appliances

user116848

:-)

Anonymous

I really like those big timers with buttons and a big clock in digital numbers

Anonymous

Those are good when you're giving a timed speech

Damkerng T.

19:16

Lately, I found myself saying, "set alarm to the next 10 minutes" or something like that very often!

Anonymous

Is that how you tell Siri to set a timer?

Damkerng T.

Yes!

Anonymous

I said to my phone タイマーを10分でセットして and it set a timer!

Damkerng T.

Neat! That's really neat!

Anonymous

Mine's set to Japanese, so I don't think it'll take English commands

Anonymous

19:19

Damkerng T.

I really like my chicken timer. Too bad that it's not very precise. I think they didn't adjust the alignment well.

user116848

It looks awesome!

Anonymous

I love my phone :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I like my iPad!

user116848

@DamkerngT. What's a chicken timer? :D

user116848

19:20

I know it's a clock :)

Damkerng T.

Lemme see if I can find it...

user116848

Any photos?

Damkerng T.

user116848

Oh, that! haha

Damkerng T.

Mine looks exactly like the first one. :-)

user116848

19:21

I had one like that too. I didn't call it chicken timer :-)

user116848

I used to call it "egg timer" :D

Damkerng T.

I bought it because it looked so cute!

user116848

It does!

Anonymous

Oh! That's what a chicken timer is!

Anonymous

I didn't know :-)

Anonymous

19:22

@Arrowfar I know what an egg timer is!

Anonymous

I've never had one shaped like a chicken.

user116848

haha

user116848

But I use phone alarm nowadays to wake up.

Anonymous

Yeah, I used to use an actual alarm clock

Anonymous

I don't own one anymore

Damkerng T.

19:24

nods

Anonymous

For a while I used my computer because it forced me to get out of bed and go across the room to turn it off

Anonymous

At which point I was guaranteed to be awake, if grumpy :-)

Damkerng T.

I lost my actual alarm clock (which was so darn cute too!).

user116848

Yeah, times have changed. More techie stuff is available now! :-)

Anonymous

I used to have a separate two-way pager

Anonymous

19:25

I thought it was great! It had a little keyboard and everything

user116848

Pager? You a doctor? :-)

user116848

They often use them

user116848

:-)

Anonymous

Nah, we had them for web stuff, like if servers went down

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Two-way pager? I never have it!

Anonymous

19:25

But around 2003 I started using my phone for that instead

Damkerng T.

Oh, when was it that I used to use a pager?

Anonymous

I kept my pager. Actually, I told them I lost it, which was true! But when I moved I found it, and I thought "Eh, whatever, they don't care anymore" :-)

Damkerng T.

:D

Anonymous

I've developed a somewhat cavalier attitude toward that sort of thing

Anonymous

At this moment I have a number of friends' possessions and they have a number of mine

Anonymous

19:27

I'm fairly certain many of them will never be returned one way or the other

Anonymous

Although I certainly would return them if asked

Anonymous

Ahh!!

Anonymous

Ten minutes elapsed!!

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I tried asking one of my friends who possessed my belongings, and he said, "Is it really with me?"

Anonymous

Damkerng T.

19:28

@snailboat Hooray!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I accept that anything I lend to someone may be gone forever.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Probably true for most of the things we lend.

Even money!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Especially money.

Anonymous

I don't lend money.

Damkerng T.

Oh, my 15 minutes passed! (I told Siri, "set alarm to the next 15 minutes".)

Anonymous

19:30

I only give money.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. passed

Anonymous

Although I see no reason why it shouldn't be spelled past, for some reason it isn't :-)

Damkerng T.

I probably have lost a lot of money that way.

Anonymous

Money always strains things, though, whether you give it or lend it.

Anonymous

People feel guilty about taking it, whether they commit to paying you back or not

Damkerng T.

19:32

Indeed!

Anonymous

And it can change your relationship with them, no matter what you call it

Anonymous

It's never simple

Anonymous

Of course, then there are the people who just try to use you for money

Anonymous

There are always a lot of people like that.

Anonymous

But I'm discounting them.

Anonymous

19:33

Because I don't care what my relationship with those people is :-)

Damkerng T.

nods

user116848

nods

Damkerng T.

Sometimes I knew right at the beginning that I would never get my money back.

user116848

:D

Damkerng T.

No, not sometimes, usually.

user116848

19:34

So, I like snail's comments.

user116848

I am starring one :D

user116848

Hooray!

user116848

I asked a question on ELU. Still no answers.

user116848

:(

Damkerng T.

It's a slow hour there, probably.

user116848

19:36

But I kinda know the answer

user116848

Still I wanted to get the professional answer.

user116848

@DamkerngT. Yeah

user116848

I was feeling a bit embarassed asking that question. I ask a lot of back-shifting questions.

Anonymous

I haven't seen your question yet

user116848

Let me give the link

Anonymous

19:38

@Arrowfar Backshift (usually spelled without a hyphen) is a difficult subject

user116848

1

Q: Is it necessary sometimes to use past tense in formal writing to mean present

"This could be made a standing item on the agenda so that it had to be considered before each time that assessments were considered." Source My question is would it be wrong to write the sentence without back-shifting it, like this: "This could be made a standing item on the agenda so that...

grammar backshifting

user116848

@snailboat So, I should write it as "backshift"?

Damkerng T.

Present?

user116848

yep

Anonymous

@Arrowfar Yes, usually it's written that way

user116848

19:40

I see.

Damkerng T.

I personally don't think of it as a tense.

Oh, I was reminded again. I didn't stop the alarm 10 minutes ago!

But in formal writing, I believe that mechanical shifting is safer.

Unless the shift makes it sound weird and false.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Hehe!

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I simply snoozed it, and I didn't know it! :-)

Yes the present tense use serves the purpose at least as well. I am not sure why we are able to backshift in this way, with could and should. I shall be interested to hear what the grammarians say. — WS2 2 hours ago

A weird comment, I'd say.

user116848

Oh, "Embarrass" has two R's. I didn't know.

Damkerng T.

Earlier today, I made up a new English tense.

in English Language & Usage, 20 hours ago, by Damkerng T.

> She might have been being possibly supposed to have been being able to have been managing to have been going to have been surviving this sentence.

user116848

19:47

Should it be: Two R's or Two Rs??

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar Either.

user116848

okay

Anonymous

@Arrowfar It's traditionally written with an apostrophe. That's one of the three main functions of the apostrophe

Anonymous

1. To show possession (as part of 's)

Anonymous

2. To show that something is missing (I've)

Anonymous

19:48

3. To show separation (P's and Q's)

user116848

okay, nods.

user116848

I wasn't sure about the 3. Thanks!

Anonymous

You can find this in the CGEL chapter on punctuation

user116848

Yes, I have CGEL Hehe

user116848

I have also read their chapter on backshifting.

Damkerng T.

19:50

I don't have it. -- sad

Anonymous

And also in the chapter on inflectional morphology

Anonymous

I wrote down the page number when I left this comment

Anonymous

@davecw Writing 7's is okay. See The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, p.1586: "Plurals with 's: An apostrophe may be used to separate the plural suffix from the base with letters, numbers (notably dates), symbols, abbreviations, and words used metalinguistically: (i) p's and q's, 1960's, &'s, Ph.D.'s, if's and but's (ii) She got four A's and two B's. This practice is less common than it used to be; with dates and abbreviations ending in an upper case letter, the form without the apostrophe is now more usual: in the 1960s, two candidates with Ph.D.s." — snailboat Oct 13 at 16:37

Anonymous

Which is substantially the same as a previous comment I left (I have something of a stock set of quotes to reply to common misconceptions now)

Anonymous

But the "three main functions" bit is from Chapter 20 somewhere

Anonymous

19:51

(I am too lazy to look it up right now)

user116848

Yeah, it's more than enough! :)

Damkerng T.

Let set A = {1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2}. How many 1s are there in set A? -- Hint: It's a trick question.

user116848

Three 1's??

Damkerng T.

Nope. :D

user116848

one 1?

Damkerng T.

19:53

Just one one.

user116848

I forgot about the sets

user116848

I studies them a long time ago

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

Let bag A = {1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2}

Damkerng T.

I don't know at what grade they would start teaching set to children these days.

Anonymous

19:54

bag or multiset

Anonymous

Depending on where you part your terminology

user116848

I'd say multiset :-)

Damkerng T.

Or list!

Anonymous

Sure. I like multiset.

user116848

Never heard of 'bag' before :-)

Anonymous

19:56

It's another term for multiset.

Damkerng T.

Bag makes me think of SmallTalk.

Anonymous

List tends to imply order.

Anonymous

But the precise definition depends on context, of course.

Anonymous

Multiset is probably good because it's unambiguous.

user116848

nods

user116848

19:57

So, I used to be very good at solving Matrices

Anonymous

I like the term bag though because it's a nice physical metaphor.

Damkerng T.

Matrices is a great concept!

Anonymous

You have a bag of marbles. The marbles can be red, black, or blue.

Anonymous

You have three red marbles, three black marbles, and two blue marbles.

Anonymous

You can pull a marble out, but the marbles have no particular order in the bag

Anonymous

19:58

You can have more than one of the same kind of marble in the bag

Anonymous

The bag metaphor fits pretty well, I think.

user116848

Yeah, bag is easy to understand too.

user116848

Even it can be understood by a layman or a kid in this sense.

Damkerng T.

There is one bag I really like in particular. It belongs to Doraemon. :-)

user116848

??

Damkerng T.

20:00

Oh, you don't know Doraemon?

user116848

No :-)

Damkerng T.

user116848

Cartoons :-)

Damkerng T.

He is a cat robot from the future, with a special belly bag.

Hehe!

Anonymous

I knew who Doraemon was when I was little.

Anonymous

20:01

But I never saw Doraemon cartoons myself.

Anonymous

My Thai friend had Doraemon comics, I think.

Damkerng T.

Doraemon was very popular here, maybe still is.

Anonymous

I'm pretty sure I've seen Doraemon in various places despite not ever seeing the cartoon myself

Damkerng T.

It was about as popular as Macgyver, iirc.

I think Doraemon is the official Goodwill Ambassador of Japan.

@snailboat Probably that's why.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Hehe!

Anonymous

20:08

"Goodwill ambassador" is such a funny phrase.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, why is that? -- curious

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Well, I've been given free commercial products and asked to be a "goodwill ambassador" for those products before. Like, tell all my friends? I guess?

Anonymous

I don't know. I always thought that was funny.

Damkerng T.

LOL

What are those products? -- really CURIOUS :-)

Anonymous

@Arrowfar I gave you an upvote

Damkerng T.

20:15

I piled up.

I think it probably is a "I'm liking it" problem.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Hmm?

Damkerng T.

It's something that could be frowned upon, simply because people won't use it in some contexts or registers.

Anonymous

In Arrowfar's question?

Damkerng T.

(I shouldn't read my sentence before I had finished it.)

Yes.

Anonymous

The sentence in his post does sound a bit off to me

Damkerng T.

20:21

It's a strange condition. I couldn't think of a better way to phrase it.

Anonymous

Oops, the sentence isn't quoted exactly

Damkerng T.

Nick2253's would have to sound a little less good, imo.

Anonymous

It sounds better than the way the sentence is in the source

Anonymous

But has / are also works for me

Damkerng T.

Oh, I can't see the change!

Checking out the edit...

A quote for `standing item'?

Anonymous

20:25

That's how it's written in the original

Damkerng T.

nods

Damkerng T.

22:38

"Who needs an alarm clock when you have me?" Siri said.

I guess she was right!

Anonymous

23:00

@DamkerngT. I just used Siri to set an alarm for the first time! Not counting the time I did it earlier today, because I wasn't actually using the timer for anything :-)

Damkerng T.

23:11

@snailboat Hooray! It's fun to use, right? :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It is surprisingly fun! :-)

Damkerng T.

23:46

No, it's correct. In the indicative it's not a very common construction ("I am to have heard about this by now" is fine, but rare), but it's still correct; in the subjunctive, which is the mood of both examples given, it's more common and still correct. — Justin Greer Oct 3 at 18:38

I tried, but couldn't make sense of "I am to have heard about this by now."

I could ~~, I guess,~~ if it were "If I were to".

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English Language Learners