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4:00 PM
> What is the Lorax? And why is it there? And why is it lifted and taken somewhere?
What would you think?
"What is the Lorax?" might make sense. But not "Why is it there?" and "Why is it lifted and taken somewhere?", right?
 
Please wait. I need to understand it.
 
is it ok to use 'hours of work' or 'working hour' is fine?
 
I can write it something like this and it makes sense to me. Please check it and let me know, if it makes sense to you. What is the Lorax? And why is it there? And why was it lifted and taken somewhere?
 
@Kabir101 I'm more used to "working hours".
@user62015 *"And why is it there?" -- But it's not there, right?
(The * marks the error.)
I mean, it was there; it isn't there.
 
Please wait. I need to check it out.
Please let me know, what is the problem with "And why is it there?"?
I do not see anything wrong with it.
Maybe I am missing something.
 
4:08 PM
Okay. -- Here is additional info: If you say "It is there", it will mean that at that point in the story (right at that line you're reading), "It is still there". But because it is not there at that point in the story, you have to say "It was there."
> If you look deep enough (in Grickle grass) you can still see where the Lorax once stood before somebody lifted the Lorax away.
 
Okay. But in that case why we used what is the Lorax?
It should have be what was the Lorax?
 
"What was the Lorax?" is better, and it's written as such in the story.
 
Okay.
Please move forward.
 
I'd like to move back. :)
 
Sure.
 
4:10 PM
I just realized that the previous sentence is more interesting.
 
Okay.
 
Suppose that I write this:
> If you look deep enough (in Grickle grass) you can still see where the Lorax once *stands before somebody *lifts the Lorax away.
Does it make sense?
 
Let me have a quick glance.
No. I would rewrite it "If you look deep enough (in Grickle grass) you can still see where the Lorax once stood before somebody lifted the Lorax away".
 
nods -- Good. But why stood and lifted?
What's wrong with stands or lifts?
 
Because as per the story. Lorax was lifted by someone.
 
4:14 PM
Because it happened in the past, so we use the past tense, right?
 
Yes.
It happened before the writer wrote the story.
 
The story is in the present tense, and we write things happened earlier in the past tense. <-- This is important.
 
Yes. I agree.
 
It doesn't have to be before the whole story, before that line in the story is enough.
 
Yes.
 
4:17 PM
Now, let's take a look at another version:
 
Sure.
 
> If you look deep enough (in Grickle grass) you can still see where the Lorax once had stood before somebody lifted the Lorax away.
Does this make sense?
 
Yes. It sounded completely natural to me and I did not get confused.
 
> If you look deep enough (in Grickle grass) you can still see where the Lorax once stood before somebody lifted the Lorax away.
Does this version make the story different?
 
It is also making sense as you have written "before" and it is telling us that the Lorax stood there before someone lifted him away. But I will prefer had stood much than stood.
 
4:22 PM
Which version is the original: stood or had stood? Can you remember? :)
 
Let me check.
 
No, don't check.
 
Okay.
 
Use your judgement.
 
Sure.
Not sure!
ahahahaha
I lost here.
 
4:24 PM
See? They aren't really different, right?
 
Yes.
 
This is exactly the case when we usually say "you don't have to use the past perfect unless you really have to".
 
Okay.
 
And because we don't have to (you can't tell the difference), we don't use the past perfect. :D
Well, usually, I mean.
 
Please wait.
Making sense.
I appreciate your effort.
 
4:26 PM
But we don't accept this one:
15 mins ago, by Damkerng T.
> If you look deep enough (in Grickle grass) you can still see where the Lorax once *stands before somebody *lifts the Lorax away.
(Sorry, I picked a wrong one the first time. :)
 
No issue. I understood it.
 
This is the case where the past tense is necessary.
I think you are okay with this point.
 
Please wait.
Yes.
Can I email this chat transcript?
Or can I check the history of it at any point of time?
 
You can get the transcript of this chat room by scrolling back to the top of the page, and clicking on the "full transcript" button.
You can access the complete transcript of any day.
 
Let me have a look.
Please wait.
You meant to say, I can check any chat history here at any point of time?
 
4:31 PM
Yes. It's a public room. :D
 
Great.
I appreciate your help and time.
 
There is a small exercise that might help you a little bit more.
 
You all guys on the website are great and very helpful!
Sure.
I am interested in it!
 
It's up to you (to choose whether to do or not). I think it's a good idea to shift the story back into the past tense. :D
Our story is in the present tense, right?
 
Sure.
 
4:34 PM
I will paste the original, you try to retell it in the past tense, okay?
 
I would love to do that.
Sure.
 
Okay. Let's start. :D
 
Sure.
 
Wait a moment. :D
42 mins ago, by Damkerng T.
> This is the Street of the Lifted Lorax.
 
Sure. I am also going to the washroom!
I will be back in 40 seconds.
 
4:36 PM
Okay. I'll wait. :)
 
Thank you so much. I am back as I could not control.
I had to make it.
 
I am back.
Thanks.
 
Okay, it's your turn to write that sentence in the past tense. :)
 
Sure.
That was the street of the Lifted Lorax.
 
4:40 PM
Good. Let's continue.
 
Sure.
 
47 mins ago, by Damkerng T.
> It is at the far end of town, where the Grickle grass grows.
 
Tiger wakes up. Tiger goes to computer. Tiger looks on screen and reads.
OR: Tiger wakes up, goes to computer, and reads the screen.
 
Nice Tiger!
 
English grammar books say you must use present-continuous.
 
4:41 PM
Unless we're telling a story.
 
That simple present cannot used.
 
It was at the far end of town, where the Grickle grass grew.
 
Good.
 
@DamkerngT. Yes, you are right. But the grammar usage manuals usually forget to say that.
 
@F.E. Ahh...
 
4:42 PM
Grammar books want: I am getting up. -- Not "I get up".
 
That's true.
 
Fiction books want to put you there in the scene, and have the convention for present-tense narrative to say: I get up.
Then fiction prose will say: I look for Tiger. -- rather than "I am looking for Tiger".
 
@user62015 F.E. is sharing a great tip we can use when we read stories. :)
 
I have a grammar usage manual on my shelf that says that I can not say something like "I get up" for me actually getting up, that I must use the progressive construction.
 
My grammar book says that too.
 
4:45 PM
It restricts the simple present for only those cases that everyone basically already knows.
Habitual, or always true situations, etc.
 
I'm not sure I'd call things like know or be habitual.
 
Though, fiction prose will say stuff like "I am looking for Tiger", but that's because the writer wants to extend that situation, the situation of being in the process of looking.
 
Sure.
I am back. I had some internet issue.
 
The simple past version can be used for both: the whole thing has already been done by the end of the sentence, or the thing could still be in progress by the end of the sentence. Often the context, or the next sentence will be needed for the proper interpretation.
 
I'd like @user62015 to shift this into the past tense, and we're done with the shifting exercise.
52 mins ago, by Damkerng T.
> If you look deep enough (in Grickle grass) you can still see, today, where the Lorax once stood before somebody lifted the Lorax away.
 
4:50 PM
Sure.
 
But if the progressive is used, then that means that the situation is still ongoing in the scene in the story.
 
If you look deep enough (in Grickle grass) you can still see, today, where the Lorax once had stood before somebody lifted the Lorax away.
 
You need to shift everything, look, can still see, stood, and lifted.
 
Sure. This is what I was thinking. And wanted to ask but did not.
Please wait. I am going to do it right now.
 
Because we choose to retell our story in the past tense.
 
4:53 PM
I agree.
 
(today should be shifted to that day too. Hmm... Let me think a bit.)
 
If you had looked deep enough (in Grickle grass) you could have seen, yesterday, where the Lorax once had stood before somebody lifted the Lorax away.
Okay.
Yes, it should be that day.
 
@DamkerngT. Probably can keep "today" for fiction . . . Let's keep it there and see what the shifted version looks like with "today". :)
 
Okay.
 
@F.E. That is what I was thinking. :)
Shifting look -> looked is enough.
 
4:56 PM
If you looked deep enough (in Grickle grass) you could still see, today, where the Lorax once had stood before somebody lifted the Lorax away.
 
Shift "present tense" ==> "simple past tense"
Shift "past tense" ==> "past-perfect"
 
I think you should shift lifted too.
 
Maybe I am not making much sense.
Okay.
Please wait.
I am doing it.
 
Do the shifting mechanically, don't think about what it means -- not yet anyway.
 
If you looked deep enough (in Grickle grass) you could still see, today, where the Lorax once had stood before somebody had lifted the Lorax away.
 
4:59 PM
Looks good. Now read it. :)
(It should be in the Grickle grass. I dropped the the in my edit. My bad.)
 
Let me do it.
No issue.
 
Does it (the sentence) make sense to you?
 
Try "the Lorax had once stood before"
 
But had stood and had lifted are not making much sense as they are coming together.
 
Oh, thank you, I missed that.
 
5:02 PM
Yes.
It should have be had once stood.
My mistake.
 
@user62015 That is the "default" way of inserting "once" into a past-perfect construction. But sometimes a writer may wish to put "once" or something like it in a different place.
 
I agree.
 
Tiger woke up. Tiger knew right away that today would be a good day for hunting.
 
The most important point is: when the narrative is in the past tense (most novels use this style), think of the past perfect as something happened before that line. That's all.
 
Sometimes "today" will work, but sometimes it might not. So keep that in mind as you shift that example sentence.
 
5:05 PM
@F.E. That sounds good to me!
 
Please wait.
It worked for me.
I appreciate your help and time.
You all guys on the website are great and very helpful!
 
I hope you can handle narratives a little better now. :)
 
I wrote this sentence some time ago.
Did it make the sense?
 
Thank you!
 
Or it is completely wrong.
"You all guys on the website are great and very helpful!"
 
5:08 PM
Which sentence?
 
This one.
 
Probably just You guys, no all.
 
Yes.
I was thinking the same.
 
And this website works better than the website, I think.
 
I just want to get feedback about my written English. Have I used commas and full stops at the right place during the chat or I made so many mistakes?
 
5:11 PM
Probably, here works a little better than on the website.
 
Yes.
But I meant to say whenever I ask anything on this website.
I appreciate it a lot.
 
I think your writing skill is quite good.
 
I agree.
 
Editted: "I just want to get feedback about my written English. Have I used commas and full stops at the right place during the chat or had I made so (delete "so") many mistakes?"
 
Just a few minor errors here and there.
 
5:12 PM
Yes. I agree.
I appreciate it a lot.
 
Can anyone try to correct this for me. I don't get what my participant wanted to write. ' Yes, I see that the amount has not been updated till yet. If the amount you want to receive it on check it will take 7 to 10 business days to get deliver at your mailing address.'
 
You guys have been working out great for me since I joined this website.
Have a great day.
Thank you so much.
 
Thanks. You too!
 
Welcome.
Please wait.
 
@user62015 You're welcome! :)
 
5:14 PM
You may go now.
I will talk to you people later.
You made my day.
Bye for now!
 
Good bye!
See you soon on the main ELL site.
 
Sure.
Bye Bye!
 
@Kabir101 Which part?
 
I know the above statement is a mess but lets try to get the grammatical form of it.
I think it is totally incorrect. Every part of it is incorrect.
 
Do you have any ideas where it went wrong?
 
5:17 PM
Sure
Yes, I see that the amount has not been updated yet. 'I removed till' in this one.
 
nods <-- This means that I agree.
 
Please suggest
 
Are you waiting for more suggestions? (I think it's unnecessary because your correction is good already.)
 
Can you look at the correction........Yes, I see that the amount has not been updated yet. If you want to receive it through check, it will take 7 to 10 business days to get it delivered to your mailing address.
I am sorry @DamkerngT. I am a learner and wanted to have more suggestions on this one.
 
It's understandable, but it's a little awkward, I think.
Is the speaker a customer support?
 
5:25 PM
You are right
And I think, he has a little problem in framing sentences.
 
It sounds like a customer support, but probably not a very friendly one, in my opinion.
 
I respect your answer.
and opinion
 
I probably not the best person to correct things like this, but I expect something softer.
 
How can we make it more polite and friendly.
Sure, thank you.
 
Like, Would you like to have it as a check instead (sir)?
 
5:28 PM
I got your point.
 
We can deliver the check to your mailing address within 7 to 10 business days.
Something along that line.
(I found myself saying within 7 to 10 business days quite awkwardly. I think in is better.)
 
That I wanted to come up with. Thank you @DamkerngT.
And I am sorry if you didn't like the question.
 
You're welcome. :)
Don't worry. I just didn't know how to address the question at first.
I should reset my zoom level. The current font is really small for me...
 
user116848
5:47 PM
hi everyone
 
user116848
@DamkerngT. Hey there:)
 
Hi
 
Hello!
 
 
2 hours later…
7:36 PM
Hi @F.E.
Hi@Cerberus
 
8:17 PM
@Kabir101 Is there a question?
 
I had one
 
8:29 PM
@Kabir101 Hi!
 
Where were you guys? I was waiting.
Hi
 
user116848
8:44 PM
Hi guys
 
user116848
Although I changed my profile picture why on 'chat' it is my old one??
 
@Farooq It'd take some time to go through on all sites.
 
user116848
Yes I think so too
 
user116848
9:00 PM
You into gaming?
 
9:31 PM
@StoneyB Hi
How are you?
 
9:52 PM
Like everybody else, dying one day at a time. Wazzup?
 
Nothing great here. I an at work and trying to get hold on something I don't know.
 
@Kabir101 Make it up, like everybody else!
 
I know. whats up there?
@StoneyB: I am writing an email to the business I work. I need your help.
 
Just drifting around, waiting for questions, transcribing a book that has to go back to the library soon. Waiting for my wife to come home so I can make dinner.
What's the problem?
 
Do you find it grammatical: Hi Everyone,

Just an opinion on a very commonly used statement in our business to inform a customer that they can’t make changes to their benefits unless they experience a qualifying life event. Please let me know if you find the below suggested statement more polite and grammatical.
Do you think it is a good start?
 
10:03 PM
"Politer and more grammatical". Is they can't ... life event the statement you are proposing to rewrite?
 
From 'Just' to 'grammatical' is the part of my email.
I got that.
anything else you want me to change
Yes
 
In that case you want to put it in quotes, so people know exactly what they are to compare your rewrite to. And "in our business" is ambiguous: in US usage it means "in our industry", among everybody who works in our field, but I suspect you mean "in our firm".
 
You are right"In our firm'.
What should be a subject of this email?
 
Also: My impulse (but this is personal, my own style, and may not be appropriate to you, or to the way things are said in your firm or your country) is to explain the problem before advancing a solution - others may not see anything wrong with the current statement. So I would write something like "Hi, everybody - It has occurred to me that what we usually say to our customers, 'You can't make changes to your benefits unless you experience a qualifying life event',
may be received by them as ...' -- or 'understood by them to mean', or whatever the problem is that you see. THEN go ahead with 'So I would like to suggest that we say this instead:'
 
user116848
10:18 PM
Hi everyone
 
And I would make the subject block something like Suggestion for customer communications. Note: suggestion, not opinion -- invite their input rather than challenging the practice.
@Arrowfar Evening, Farooq.
@Kabir101 But take that with a grain of salt. I'm older than anybody else in my shop, and I tend to treat them all like dimwitted teenagers!
 
Hello @Farooq
@StoneyB I understand that, however I like your suggestions on this one.
I think that is going to work for me.
 
Happy to be of help. I hope my firm doesn't bill you for it!
 
10:39 PM
Nope.
Hey, I gotta go now. My cab must be waiting downstairs. I will catch you guys later tomorrow and also try to come up with better question. Have a great evening. @StoneyB: Please start cooking now for her. I wish I could be of help in cooking. Bye @Farooq.
Have a great evening to everyone...Aloha to all!
 

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