English Language Learners

Anonymous

15:32

@DamkerngT. I can't explain what exactly the sentence in the original means.

Anonymous

It could also be, "If I met John, I would have called my mom." — Adil Ali 23 mins ago

Anonymous

Nope, in your case, it should be "if I had met John". — Zhanlong Zheng 22 mins ago

Anonymous

Is that sentence really so frowned upon?

Anonymous

I know people say stuff like that.

Damkerng T.

Perhaps we need the context.

Why did Adil say it?

Anonymous

15:39

Well, sure.

Anonymous

I was just curious if there was a perceived grammatical problem.

Anonymous

I was ignoring semantics, as I do from time to time :-)

Damkerng T.

Oh, Zhanlong is the OP.

Anonymous

0

A: I have misspoken. How should I correct myself?

Dear family and friends: Thank you all for being here to celebrate Thomas and Phuong-khánh's wedding day. We are so grateful for your presence tonight. Also a special thank you to all our guests who traveled from out of town to be here with us. We hope you all enjoy this evening and have fun ton...

Anonymous

Did they post that to the wrong place? :-)

Damkerng T.

15:42

Spam?

Anonymous

I went for NaA.

Damkerng T.

I went after you.

No idiom intended.

Anonymous

Idiom?

Anonymous

Oh, hey, that is an idiom.

Anonymous

Well, I didn't interpret it that way. :-)

Anonymous

15:44

Although since you bring it into the spotlight, in my opinion "I went after you" isn't entirely natural to express the intended meaning.

Damkerng T.

What would you say, if you were me?

Anonymous

Something more creative than "I did, too", you mean? :-)

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

I think go for NP is one of those idiom thingies, and go doesn't echo it properly.

Damkerng T.

And more natural than "I did the same thing as you did."

Anonymous

15:47

So the first thing that would occur to me is "I went for NaA, too" :-)

Damkerng T.

Ding! How about, "I went for the same thing."?

Anonymous

Sure, why not? :-)

Damkerng T.

I'm just really tired, but still don't want to go to bed. :-)

Anonymous

Me too.

Anonymous

My brain is hardly still in the on position.

Damkerng T.

15:49

Argh! A brain in a tri-state.

Anonymous

Mayhap I need some caffeines.

Damkerng T.

:D

Anonymous

Oh! And some hot peppers.

Anonymous

Oh, the definition Maulik linked to on that jump in question was good, too.

Anonymous

I missed that one. I guess I didn't scroll down far enough

Damkerng T.

15:55

I think Zhanlong's question is a good example why conditionals 0, I, II, and III can be evil.

21 mins ago, by snailboat

Nope, in your case, it should be "if I had met John". — Zhanlong Zheng 22 mins ago

Anonymous

But people don't always talk that way...

Anonymous

Should they talk differently? I can't say.

Damkerng T.

And, that's the problem.

Anonymous

But do they? No :-)

Damkerng T.

> If I met John, I would call my mom. <-- Conditional II

Anonymous

15:57

Is that the one he's objecting to?

Damkerng T.

> "If I had met John, I would have called my mom." <-- Conditional III

23 mins ago, by snailboat

It could also be, "If I met John, I would have called my mom." — Adil Ali 23 mins ago

Anonymous

Oh, right.

Damkerng T.

> Nope, in your case, it should be "if I had met John" -- because "If I met John, I would have called my mom." is not Conditional II nor III.

Anonymous

> If I clicked the links I would have have seen hamster cards of a French braid hair cut.

Anonymous

Which conditional is this?

Damkerng T.

15:59

Of course it's not I, II, or III.

Anonymous

> If I didn't know it was ham, I would have thought bread.

Damkerng T.

would have had, I think.

Anonymous

Is this one kosher?

Damkerng T.

Still not I, II, or III.

But I think a good grammar book would add something after 0, I, II, and III.

Perhaps something called "Mixed Conditional".

And usually, learners would skip this.

Because 0, I, II, and III are difficult enough already.

(Many stopped at I.)

Anonymous

The formulaic stuff is probably good starting out.

Anonymous

16:02

I honestly have no idea how you teach this stuff properly. :-)

Anonymous

Or heck, describe it at all.

Damkerng T.

So, when learners use these Conditionals, they don't know exactly what they're saying, they're just using the patterns.

I think I found a good website for this recently.

Perhaps too tired to wade through my history. :)

Anonymous

0

Q: Short answers shouldn't be converted to comments

When someone posts a short answer, but it's not a comment, it shouldn't be converted to a comment. If it's too short to be useful, it should be downvoted or, if it's very low quality, perhaps even deleted. (If these choices aren't palatable, adding a post notice asking for more detail is always...

discussion

Anonymous

I started a meta discussion!

Damkerng T.

You did!

Anonymous

16:07

I think I confused J.R.

Anonymous

Sorry, J.R.!

Damkerng T.

Oh, I kind of answered questions in comments often enough.

Found it!

Anonymous

I don't know. My contributions about the sequence of tenses are limited to, pretty much, "Yeah, that sounds okay to me!" "No, that sounds wrong!"

Damkerng T.

I think I would recommend this when a learner at an intermediate-level up asked about Conditionals stuff.

englishpage.com/conditional/conditionalintro.html

Anonymous

Lessee.

Anonymous

16:12

Ah, real and unreal!

Anonymous

That's much friendlier than realis and irrealis. Whodathunkit?

Damkerng T.

Yep. :D

Anonymous

To be honest, the terms seem about the same to me.

Anonymous

But I had a discovery.

Anonymous

When you say irrealis to people, they think you're making stuff up.

Anonymous

16:13

(Of course, this depends on the people.)

Damkerng T.

Irrealis can be used to scare learners away. :-)

Anonymous

Oh, no! That's not the goal!

Anonymous

There are certain theories, you know, about throwing terms at people.

Damkerng T.

Unreal, which means about the same thing, is much friendlier.

curious

Oh, hello @TylerJamesYoung

Tyler James Young

ahoy

Damkerng T.

16:15

Aye, captain!

Anonymous

Well, if you're teaching someone who may or may not have been taught a proper definition of, say, verb

Anonymous

Then you could start over with a brand new set of terms unfamiliar to them and shake loose all that baggage from stuff they learned before.

Anonymous

You could call them, say, verbals.

Damkerng T.

Aha!

Anonymous

(Do I think this makes any sense? Not really, but other people do :-)

Anonymous

16:17

It's sort of a tabula rasa sort of thing.

Damkerng T.

Verbals is probably okay, though verbs is much friendlier.

Verbaliralizilla is definitely not very friendly.

Anonymous

Yay, I got 100% on the if/when quiz!

Anonymous

proud

Damkerng T.

Huh? Oh, there.

I think that site is good, and rather true to real English, though a bit too much in details.

But perhaps, it's the way things are.

Anonymous

It says I got one wrong on the next exam.

Anonymous

16:21

> If I wanted to stay in a beautiful hotel and the hotel (be) ____ full, I (buy) ____ the hotel and make them give me a room.

Damkerng T.

I didn't really take the tests there. I browsed around the explanations.

Anonymous

You fill in the appropriate "form" of be and buy (including auxiliaries)

Anonymous

What do you say?

Damkerng T.

were, would buy

Anonymous

Hah!

Anonymous

16:23

Fancy-pants. I went for was

Damkerng T.

I'm sure I got it wrong. My brain function is about 10%.

Anonymous

So it said I was wrong, but you were right.

Damkerng T.

Hah!

Anonymous

I really don't have were in my idiolect there. And I certainly do use irrealis were!

Damkerng T.

I needed to read it a few times. The first two times I didn't see that if. :-)

Anonymous

16:24

But maybe it only appears shortly after if.

Anonymous

It honestly sounds funny to me with were.

Anonymous

sniff 94%

Anonymous

I'm crushed!

Damkerng T.

I think in real life, people use were less and less.

Anonymous

I use were, but only in certain spots.

Damkerng T.

16:27

In that website, I particularly like this page: englishpage.com/conditional/mixedconditional.html

It shows the possibilities nicely.

In colors.

Anonymous

That's not bad.

Anonymous

Though English doesn't have a future tense

Anonymous

> If Sandy were giving a speech tomorrow, she would be very nervous.
> If Sandy were giving a speech right now, she would be very nervous.

Damkerng T.

I see.

Anonymous

Or, my favorite:

Anonymous

16:29

> If Sandy were giving a speech, she would be very nervous.

Anonymous

This could be present or future. :-)

Damkerng T.

That's true!

Anonymous

That's because present and future time can be expressed in English, but tense isn't how it's done. The present tense is really more of a nonpast tense.

Anonymous

And heck, that were isn't terribly present, either.

Damkerng T.

Unreal present, maybe (in their own words)?

Anonymous

16:32

Sure.

Damkerng T.

> If Cindy were more creative, the company would send her to New York to work on the new advertising campaign.

It was explained as [present] + [future].

Anonymous

Of course, that page doesn't use the word tense anywhere. The most natural interpretation is that the page is talking about past, present, and future time.

Anonymous

I just wanted to point out that the present and future weren't grammatically distinguished there

Damkerng T.

It can be ambiguous!

(as you said, it can be either)

Anonymous

That page seems pretty good.

Damkerng T.

16:35

Up to this point, I think it's the best I found on the web.

I'm sure that there might be some better sites out there, but they might be hiding somewhere and I couldn't find them.

Anonymous

Ah, I don't know.

Anonymous

Maybe the holy grail of English resources has yet to be written.

Damkerng T.

ELL, ELL, ELL.

Anonymous

Yeah?　Is the site that useful? :-)

Anonymous

I just have fun talking about linguisticsy stuff sometimes.

Damkerng T.

16:38

Heehee.

Anonymous

A lot of the time, I'm not sure if people really find my answers that helpful.

Anonymous

It probably depends on the person.

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure if it's the best, but I'm sure that it's rather good.

Anonymous

I was rather worried about the quality early on.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I think your answers are generally more than good.

Damkerng T.

16:59

I'm glad that StoneyB answered Zhanlong's question.

I think I should go to bed; can't fight my heavy eyelids. :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Please rest well! Call a truce with your eyelids :-)

Anonymous

I have it on good authority that they're packing lead.

Anonymous

17:15

Okay, that's it for me, for now :-)

Anonymous

(Soon the smiley police will come and take what little the ellipsis police have left.)

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