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20:00
@ACuriousMind if I write a PDE, do I have the freedom to choose the function space topology in order to solve that PDE?
@TobiasFünke all of the regression works happen here. Did I mention the closest point theorem?
@ACuriousMind lemme read
but RR has a point, in some sense: In the "usual" physics curriculum, you often get away with working on $L^2$ only (QM), I suppose
@User1865345 hehe
@TobiasFünke well, if you don't care about mathematically rigorous formulations at all, you can even get away without mentioning $L^2$ :P
hehe but most courses will mention it!
20:02
Right, I was going to ask how that relates to how big O is used in computation. But I guess in this case it just means that the remaining terms are on the order of $(\delta\varepsilon)^2$
and most courses do not teach rigorous QM (which is totally fine)
compression sensing as used in MRI uses $L^1$
But really we use this machinery of PDEs implicitly all the time, just no one proves the relevant stuff. At the very least when you write down something like a Green's function in classical EM you are doing something implicitly with PDEs and distributions and, yes, perhaps Sobolev spaces :P
Are we saying it's on that order as $\delta\varepsilon \to 0$ though? typically for computation its as $N \to \infty$
and then if you don't have a mandatory course on functional analysis... I can at least understand their statement better
20:03
@naturallyInconsistent is that the taxicab one
It will also be difficult to believe that $L^1$ has no use in crystalline physics.
@Allie yes
i like that analogy :P
@TobiasFünke we work with Markov operators which when restricted to L^2 becomes the usual projection operator. I guess I wrote an answer on this last year.
@ACuriousMind do people even bother using the green function for Newton's equations
What about the solution that goes backward in time
@Slereah you will note I said EM, not classical mechanics :P
20:04
But I did
@User1865345 if you find it, consider to link it. I guess I won't understand much, but I like taking a glance at new topics, so that I have at least heard of a few things :)
you do not usually do Green's function stuff with Newton's laws, no :P
@TobiasFünke wait.
you all are so mathematical
It's been on my mind since I tried solving the free particle in every formalism
20:05
@ACuriousMind I think we did... if I remember well lol. but it was my FA course
but I have to check
@Slereah haha thats kind of cool
6
A: Does the conditional expectation operator have an interpretable decomposition like the projection matrix does in linear algebra?

User1865345At the outset, there's nothing special about $A$ in $ P_A.$ To briefly (over)simplify, the concept of orthogonal projection stems from the necessity of finding the "closest" point of an element in a certain suitable space. Formally, Result $ 1:$ Let $\mathscr A$ be a closed, convex subset (e.g. c...

@Allie 🥺
20:06
@ACuriousMind since some time has passed may i ask a q about the situation from earlier
im getting disrtracted
One day I'll finish it
I would rather recommend this small yet beautiful book: Functional Analysis for Probability and Stochastic Processes
@Allie lol
@Allie nah, I am not (idk if you addressed this to me anyway). I just have the right amount of understanding that I don't know 99% of math, and if I ever run in trouble I know that it could be either due to my sloppiness or due to the lack of rigor I employ
@Slereah nice
i think the operators in Newtonian mech are not linear tho?
20:11
@User1865345 propaganda
but I think it can work maybe
🤣🤣
I am not indoctrinating h bar people to take up stats. Lol.
@RyderRude they are for the free particle
or am I
@User1865345 that's not required. Physicists already take up stats. But usually badly.
20:13
e.g. (d2/dx2 +k)x=0 is the oscillator equation. one can write the Greens function of this operator and use it to solve perturbation interactions added to the oscillator
I urged @Slereah to do probability earlier.
Free particle? I can't believe it, I've been spending thousands every month on my particles!
e.g. one can solve (d2/dx2+k)x = x2 maybe
^ stupid joke
@Slereah yes
20:14
@naturallyInconsistent I see.
@Slereah i think u can also use the simple harmonic oscillator
@Allie 😅
@Relativisticcucumber I would prefer to have a bit more time to think about it myself, but sure. Let's use the backup room since there's currently a different conversation going on in here I don't want to interrupt.
also, i had tried to use the Greens function technique to perturbatively defined creation and annihilation operators in interacting theories @Slereah
Is the backup room always open? I've never heard of it
20:16
I just unfroze it :P We used it more in the past but haven't for years
I see
seems quite useful
H bar has a back up h bar. Nice.
At least I will not increase the clutter here anymore. Have to do some chores. Have a nice day, folks.
@Slereah i have written the idea in this post. there are a few properties of these operators which make me think that they are creation-annihilation operators. e.g. they satisfy $[a,H]=-\omega a$ with the full Hamiltonian $H$
but it hasn't gotten attention
@User1865345 you too, thanks. see you around!
if u know any mathematical quantum field theorist, please try to share this result
i had also put a bounty on that question... but I didn't get responses
20:21
@TobiasFünke that alone makes you more mathematical than average :P
I mean the average person doesn't even know calculus
That's a pretty low bar
or algebra
lets be real here
:3
this book keeps saying "simple quadrature"
what the HELL does that mean?
or, just quadrature
@Allie quadrature means integration, usually the numerical kind
Ah, that's what i was thinking. thanks
@TobiasFünke I have a question! Hope you still don't mind me asking
So, when writing the energy functional in DFT, they typically write it in terms of a universal functional $F$ plus a potential energy term $\int \rho(\mathbf{r})V(\mathbf{r}) d\mathbf{r}$
20:29
@Slereah i usually think of it as that the average person had been deprived of an education that they should have received, that would have otherwise have made their lives better in significant ways
And the reasoning they give for not including that last term is that it depends on the system (namely, its potential) while all the other terms are independent of the system
But, by HK1, isn't the $V$ uniquely determined by your choice of $\rho$?
well, up to an additive constant
maybe thats why
is "orthogonality of characters" the most usual way to refer to the property described in this answer: math.stackexchange.com/q/3299004
in particular, i am wondering what the "orthogonality of complex exponentials on a discretized circle" is usually referred to as
@Allie well yes and no
you have to be precise here
i.e. the property $\sum_{m=1}^M e^{-im(q - q')} = \delta_{q,q'}$
@SillyGoose Yes, it's orthogonality of the characters in the Hilbert space $L^2(G)$, cf. Peter-Weyl
20:33
these physicists really be doing some math
barring in mind the usual assumptions (which could be lifted), like non-degeneracy of the ground state and so on, the HK proves a one-to-one correspondence between the ground state density and the potential (modulo additive constant)
ah!
so that universal functional would still apply to densities of excited states
does this answer your question?
it is more complicated
Yes, it does
@ACuriousMind is this sort of mathematics under the topic of like discrete harmonic analysis or something
20:35
@TobiasFünke I am sure it is :p
you see it in harmonic analysis, group theory, representation theory, etc.
we've discussed this a few days ago. IIRC, I've told you that you have to define the domains of the functionals. The "original" HK functional is defined only for $v$-representable densities, i.e. densities which come from (non-degenerate) ground states of some external potential (things can be made rigorous)
I'm getting there :P so far the book has only defined N-representable
if i wanted to actually prove that i can do a fourier-esque transform on any group $Z/nZ$, do you know what direction i should look into?
but I have a feeling it is coming very soon
20:37
let's call the set of such densities $\mathcal V$. Then for every $n\in \mathcal V$, you can evaluate the function $E_v[n]:=F[n]+\int n v$ for a given external potential $v$.
should i learn peter-weyl and what leads up to it?
@Allie ah, I see.
but this is the functional which pops up in the HK2 theorem about minimization
from the wiki it sounds like peter-weyl might be overkill as all $Z/nZ$ are abelian
yup I am on the page that describes HK2 :3
ahh ok, sorry
20:38
no need to be sorry!!!!
just good timing is all haha
but yeah, as you said, the universal functional is universal in the sense that it does not depend on the external potential
so what you will learn any minute is that for a given external potential $v$ under consideration, the ground state of the functional I've defined above is achieved by the ground state density $n_0$, i.e. $E_0(v)=E_v[n_0]$, where I've made it explicit that you fix the external potential from the outset, i.e. you specify the problem you want to solve, so to speak. (which type of molecule, for example)
I again would like to point out to the book/notes by H. Eschrig on DFT (until recently, these notes were accessible for free on his homepage; I don't know if they are still...he died)
he discusses the functional stuff very nicely
@RyderRude ah. $L^p$ spaces are also used in DFT :p
21:02
...so in view of my answer: I think that you can see your proposed functional $F[n]+\int v[n] n$ as giving the ground state energy corresponding to the ground state density $n$ (after you somehow sorted out the problem that $v$ is determined by $n$ only up to an additive constant, which should be doable I think). but as I tried pointed out, I think this most likely is not what people mean when they write $F+\int v n$ or so
One day, Tobias will be the CEO of SE (unless he's already)
haha
how come you think so?
I'd be happy with less haha
Typical reply of a CEO undercover
The reason why you never lose your cool is that everything is under control
you would be surprised how un-calm many CEOs are :P
I was thinking of a TV program named "CEO undercover", where as you can guess, the CEO had to keep the cover :P
Oh no, the name was "Undercover Boss"
21:18
I wish bezos went in under cover boss
21:36
@HerrFeinmann person who has seen only "undercover boss": this is giving me undercover boss vibes
@ACuriousMind I think I'm a little confused about the meaning of this reply D:
@HerrFeinmann do you not know the "boss baby vibes" meme?
perhaps the joke is just not that good :P
@ACuriousMind The boolean answer to this question is $\theta(t=\mathrm{now})$
I understand the joke now
Lemme just double-check, but: Special relativity cannot be applied to a rotating frame of reference, right?
that's a question right into the hornets' nest :P
it depends on how exactly you define "special relativity"
21:48
24
Q: Acceleration in special relativity

IsaacI am currently studying the motion of relativistic charged particles in electromagnetic fields. More exactly, we first derived the equation of motion in the 4-vector formalism. I was a bit confused when my teacher talked about acceleration in special relativity. In which cases are we allowed to t...

Thanks!
I'm surprised, that's the kind of question in which I would have expected at least a comment by ACM
@HerrFeinmann the question is older than my account :P
Oh right, causality
22:02
very appropriate in the context of special relativity :P
ACuriousTachyon
actually, tachyons don't move faster than light, cf. physics.stackexchange.com/q/166095/50583
If they have imaginary mass, we cannot measure their mass, can we?
difficult question to answer, given no one believes they exist :P
maybe @Slereah has some esoterica on measuring tachyon mass
I got shivers after that message
22:10
I was pondering to that only Hermitian operators bear measurable quantities.
And their eigenvalues are real.
oh, that part is easy: there is no "mass operator" :P
there is only the mass-squared operator $p^2$
37
Q: Must observables be Hermitian only because we want real eigenvalues, or is more to that?

QuantumwhispBecause (after long university absence) I recently came across field operators again in my QFT lectures (which are not necessarily Hermitian): What problem is there with observables represented by non-Hermitian operators (by observables, I obviously don't mean the tautological meaning "Hermitian ...

20
Q: Why hermitian, after all?

QuantumBrickThis question is going to look a lot like a duplicate, but I've read dozens of related posts and they don't touch the subject. Here we go. Why are observables represented by hermitian operators? Because then we'll measure real stuff, since the eigenvalues are real; Because hermitian operators ...

For that... Since imaginary numbers emerge from square roots of negative numbers, does that mean existence of objects with negative mass must be premised before existence of tachyons?
Nevermind, this math doesn't check out; Positive numbers have a positive sqrt and a negative sqrt.
22:31
ok I was not expecting this to be the next page...
this looks like an XKCD comic
@Allie hehe yeah, but it is a nice illustration
so v-representability is a stronger condition than N-representability, right?
yes, definitely!
since it also requires that it is the ground-state density associated with a particular potential
and to a very large extent unsolved
22:36
what a cool problem
hence the appeal to the constrained search formulation
right, thats the next section :3
i am thoroughly enjoying this
:) glad
yeah, it is a nice topic, and a shame not taught more often
i initially thought this book was way beyond my reach, and its definitely not an easy read but i'm still learning a lot
anyway, there are some (partial) solutions to the $v$-rep problem, and one very recent for a large class:
"Solution of the υ-representability problem on a one-dimensional torus", Sutter et al., 2024.
22:38
donut
@RyderRude again an application of Sobolev spaces :p ok I will stop
22:50
Tobias, what's your story for knowing Sobolev spaces? :P
my functional analysis course(s)
bro said quadrature again...
like please chill why do you keep saying quadrature nobody says that
lul
lol
okay, I'll gp to sleep. see you
good night
do you ever say quadrature??? is it just me?
awwww good night tobias see you soon hopefully
some people love saying "quadrature", I personally never use it :P
it's just a linguistic quirk
22:56
@TobiasFünke good night boss
Oh, wait. I'm not a SE employee
Wait, are there SE employees? And what are mods? 🤔
There are SE employees. Mods are not employees, we do not get any compensation for what we deal with here :P
> for what we deal with here
I can feel so many feeling in those words
Like a 10-year movie of horror running in your head in the span of a few instants
good lord a bomb went off overnight in hbar :(
*feelings.

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