The h Bar

ACuriousMind

21:00

@Mr.Feynman it is extremely horrible for people trying to learn the language, yes :P

you need to memorize the gender of every noun seperately

Sir Cumference

Is it like Spanish where you can often infer the gender from the spelling/pronunciation of a word?

ACuriousMind

@SirCumference nope

using the wrong gender for some words (especially the ones not used very often) is an error even non-native speakers who otherwise speak extremely good German make frequently

Mr. Feynman

@ACuriousMind Imagine how much I feel blessed with Japanese as I don't have to worry about genders, number and conjugation

ACuriousMind

well, memorizing kanjis isn't so much better :P

Mr. Feynman

I mean, you conjugate verbs in the sense of tenses but it's the same for I, you, he/she etc.

On the other hand, you have "polite" conjugations :P

Sir Cumference

21:11

@Mr.Feynman well I have noticed with Japanese, Google translate typically has a 50/50 chance of getting a person's gender correct

Mr. Feynman

And adjectives must be conjugated. Beware, it is not declension like in Latin

@SirCumference ::surprised Italian Pikachu face

ACuriousMind

@Mr.Feynman Oh, the German pronouns are horrible, too! The pronoun sie is for: 3rd person female singular, polite 2nd person all-gender singular+plural and 3rd person all-gender plural

Tobias Fünke

hello everyone :)

Mr. Feynman

@ACuriousMind Mhhhh, you have a similar (but less chaotic) situation with "lei" (Italian for "she"), which is also used as polite 2nd person pronoun

But have you ever heard about the past of an adjective? Because Japanese has that :D

Sir Cumference

@Mr.Feynman I'm always afraid I'm gonna lose nuance like that from machine translation

E.g. I'll get a result much less polite than what I intended

Downside of English is a lot of nuance can only be conveyed through speech/intonation, so you can't convey it all through text

Mr. Feynman

21:16

@SirCumference mhhh in this case you don't really, probably because even Japanese translators are very polite :D

ACuriousMind

@Mr.Feynman I'm aware that there is a lot of linguistic debate over whether Japanese even has "adjectives" in the sense of Indo-European languages

Mr. Feynman

More seriously, nuances can be lost because they can't always br translated

@ACuriousMind ACM, my "brother in physics" you really know a lot, don't you? :P

There are many classes of adjectives in Japanese, but the ones we're talking about have a predicative value (so they include the copula in their meaning, roughly speaking)

ACuriousMind

...which would justify saying they're verbs in some viewpoints :P

Sir Cumference

Are you learning/have learned Japanese @Mr.Feynman?

qwerty

@SirCumference he talks about little else :p

ACuriousMind

21:19

@Mr.Feynman you can't use "my brother in physics" if you're not following the "my brother in Christ, you made the ..." meme template

Sir Cumference

@qwerty Huh, I somehow never realized

Silly Goose

is $\oplus$ used in this way in physics?

it seems very strange. i have seen it used in this way in another physics paper, but i am not sure where anyone would ever get the idea to use $\oplus$ in this way

Mr. Feynman

@SirCumference I'm currently obsessed with it. Have been studying for two months, waiting for my lust for physics to be back

ACuriousMind

@SillyGoose physics texts often have no idea what $\otimes$ and $\oplus$ mean or what the difference is

Silly Goose

sad

Sir Cumference

21:21

On a weird side note, trying to understand Fortran code rn with only knowledge from other programming languages feels a lot like trying to read Portuguese with only my knowledge from Spanish

Like I can kind of piece together what's going on sometimes, but most of it is looking stuff up

Mr. Feynman

@ACuriousMind Of course I totally knew you were quoting a template. I didn't just learn it. I didn't think I was your brother in physics :'(

ACuriousMind

@SillyGoose but just from the screenshot, it's impossible to tell what you mean by "this way"

Silly Goose

they mean $A \oplus B = A \otimes I + I \otimes B$

it would be the only conceivable way (to me) for the dimensions to be proper. but also that is the natural generalization of the property of log

qwerty

@SirCumference isn't that true of a lot of code esp same/similar gen ones?

Sir Cumference

@qwerty Indeed

I do have to wonder if it's harder to learn programming languages if you don't speak English

qwerty

21:23

oo maybe

Sir Cumference

I guess it's kind of like how I had to learn a number of Italian and French phrases to read sheet music

ACuriousMind

@SirCumference you don't have to learn English to understand what IF and WHILE mean :P

qwerty

at a walking pace. I forget the Italian

Sir Cumference

andante

qwerty

I was about to type starts with a ends with dante

lol felt like it needed an extra syllable

Sir Cumference

21:26

sometimes sheet music uses fake Italian words though

e.g. decrescendo

or it kind of butchers the original Italian, e.g. "ad agio" becoming "adagio"

ACuriousMind

@SillyGoose I mean, it depends on the context. Yes, pedantically that notation makes no sense, but it is the case that if I have two Lie algebras $\mathfrak{g}_1$ and $\mathfrak{g_2}$, the natural representation of $\mathfrak{g}_1\oplus\mathfrak{g}_2$ on $V_1\otimes V_2$ where $V_i$ is a representation of $\mathfrak{g}_i$ is given by $t_1\oplus t_2 \mapsto \rho_1(t_1)\otimes 1_2 + 1_1\otimes \rho_2(t_2)$

qwerty

@SirCumference really???

Mr. Feynman

@SirCumference not fake. Music words are genuine Italian

qwerty

I had no idea they took out a space

Mr. Feynman

Some of them more old-fashioned

Sir Cumference

21:27

@Mr.Feynman Oh, I heard "decrescendo" wasn't an actual Italian word

unlike crescendo and diminuendo

Mr. Feynman

@SirCumference well, just like "crescendo" is the gerund present of "crescere", "decrescendo" is the same thing for "decrescere"

Sir Cumference

huh, TIL

reddit comments failed me again

Mr. Feynman

You can guess the meanings of the words yourself

Then again, I'm not saying you would hear the word in daily life, but it's a legit Italian word :P

Sir Cumference

is "adagio" usually two words in Italian tho?

ACuriousMind

@SirCumference lol

Mr. Feynman

21:30

@SirCumference one word

Sir Cumference

@ACuriousMind everyone posting a reddit comment always sounds so confident lol

Mr. Feynman

Probably the etymology would be two words, but as of today it's one word

Sir Cumference

very easy to pass yourself off as an expert apparently

Mr. Feynman

Then again, I would only think of music when I hear "decrescendo" or "crescendo" (even if they are used by analogy in other fields), but grammatically there is no difference :P

Probably the only fake one I could think off the top of my head is "fortississimo"

ACuriousMind

but that's obviously a joke, right?

Sir Cumference

21:33

it's a real thing (in music)

Dynamics (music)

In music, the dynamics of a piece are the variation in loudness between notes or phrases. Dynamics are indicated by specific musical notation, often in some detail. However, dynamics markings require interpretation by the performer depending on the musical context: a specific marking may correspond to a different volume between pieces or even sections of one piece. The execution of dynamics also extends beyond loudness to include changes in timbre and sometimes tempo rubato. == Purpose and interpretation == Dynamics are one of the expressive elements of music. Used effectively, dynamics help...

ACuriousMind

"I need something louder than fortissimo!" - "Just add another -issi"

Mr. Feynman

Mhhh not an intentional one (?(

Sir Cumference

but I've never heard someone actually say it unironically

usually you'd just write $fff$

ACuriousMind

I mean the phrase itself is a joke, not that it doesn't exist

no one thought that was an actual Italian word and used it, it's a funny way to say "louder than the loudest"

Mr. Feynman

@ACuriousMind Yes, the idea is correct, that's a superlative. Forte-->Fortissimo. The problem is that if you want to give another "layer" of superlative, you should say "fortissimissimo"

ACuriousMind

21:35

you could even translate it to English as loudestest

Sir Cumference

I guess louderer?

ACuriousMind

@SirCumference no, that's a comparative

Mr. Feynman

Your idea that it's a joke is correct, ACM, just spelled wrongly :P

Sir Cumference

there are the renegades who use like 8 fortes

Dynamics (music)

In music, the dynamics of a piece are the variation in loudness between notes or phrases. Dynamics are indicated by specific musical notation, often in some detail. However, dynamics markings require interpretation by the performer depending on the musical context: a specific marking may correspond to a different volume between pieces or even sections of one piece. The execution of dynamics also extends beyond loudness to include changes in timbre and sometimes tempo rubato. == Purpose and interpretation == Dynamics are one of the expressive elements of music. Used effectively, dynamics help...

well SE's chat doesn't show text from the actual section I linked tho

Mr. Feynman

So basically for a double superlative you use -issimissimo, not -ississimo

ACuriousMind

21:37

you're telling me Italian has a correct way to form a double superlative?

because in most other languages that just doesn't make any sense :P

Mr. Feynman

Correct in the sense of usage, I guess. Every Italian speaker, would choose "fortissimissimo"

I don't think it's formal enough to be on grammar books but it's used in daily life, sometimes

Sir Cumference

Curious, in Italian do they shorten pianoforte to "piano" like in English?

ACuriousMind

@Mr.Feynman is that like how every German knows das ist kein Panzer? :P

Mr. Feynman

@ACuriousMind no no, this is genuine :P

I'll phrase it better. Italian has two kind of superlatives

The "relative" one, which is the equivalent of "loudest". It refers to a quality in a group. "The tallest person".

"Fortissimo" is the other kind of superlative. It only means "very loud", not "loudest"

Vincent Thacker

Hi @ACuriousMind any idea what happened to this review? physics.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/466270

It didn't get deleted even though it has negative score, not accepted and unanimous delete review

Mr. Feynman

21:43

Fortissimissimo=very very loud

So the English equivalent of -issimo is "very/really/extremely + adjective"

Sir Cumference

On a weird side note, I wonder if the advent of machine translations will greatly accelerate scientific research

if it gets good enough, eventually we may not need to worry about language barriers for papers

so results in one country will be easy to learn about for another country

all right I should probably get back to actually reading papers instead of procrastinating

ACuriousMind

@VincentThacker yes, a mod cleared the flags as "helpful" (probably so that they don't clutter up our mod queue) but didn't consider the interaction that this also dequeues the post from all review queues into which it was placed because of those flags

I've deleted it

Vincent Thacker

@ACuriousMind Oh I see, thanks

But wait, how did it manage to accumulate 6 delete reviews, though? Doesn't 6 delete reviews automatically cause deletion and mark the flags as helpful?

ACuriousMind

It's 5 recommend deletion reviews that lead to deletion, but two of those reviews were direct delete votes since the users have enough rep to cast those

so it technically only had 4 recommend deletion reviews

at least I guess that's how it works based on what I can see

Vincent Thacker

@ACuriousMind Hmm, I think 6 total deletion reviews (recommend deletion or delete votes) automatically deletes it anyway if I'm not wrong

It's either 3 delete votes or 6 total reviews in favour of deletion, whichever comes first

ACuriousMind

21:59

@VincentThacker oh, wait, there's another strange thing here - the dequeued action happened 9 hours ago, 1 hour before Michael Seifert's vote to delete

for some reason the review history shows his vote as a review action (which would have been the 6th action and should have deleted the post as you say) but the timestamps in the timeline tell me that's not possible

perhaps the flags were dismissed when MS already had the post open in the queue?

it's definitely a subtle bug, you might want to report this on Meta Stack Exchange

Vincent Thacker

@ACuriousMind Interesting. But I believe that the late review loophole was closed long ago in around 2016

The loophole was that as long as you had the review loaded when it was active, you could submit it many months later and it will still get accepted even though it no longer has effect

The fix lowered the grace period to 15 minutes and upon "dequeuing", the item will be marked as "no longer reviewable" and the system will no longer accept any reviews even if the user loaded them earlier

ACuriousMind

@VincentThacker the gap between the time stamps is 21 mins

which could be 15 mins + caching :P

Vincent Thacker

@ACuriousMind I see. I think it may be a strange thing with casting delete votes from review. I don't think a "recommend deletion" would work the same way

Anyway, it's the first time I saw something like this happen

But still it's really strange how his "delete" review was accepted after it was marked as no longer reviewable, because I don't think the no longer reviewable status has the same 15-minute grace period as the review completed status (I could be wrong about this)

Silly Goose

22:17

@SirCumference i would be interested in an english to english translator that translates text into phrases that I understand :P

Mr. Feynman

23:01

@SillyGoose why am I thinking you really want a Schwartz to English translator?

Michael

23:12

I'm looking for a mentor. Maybe even a partner. With an interest in aeronautics and a background in STEM

Is anyone interested? In a former software developer who transitioned into aeronautica

ACuriousMind

23:24

@Michael 1. That's not really what this chat is for. 2. You didn't say anything at all about what you would expect from a "mentor" or "partner", nor why anyone would want to become that for you.

qwerty

@Michael you have come into this chat multiple times without interest in what's going on but asking these large requests, for people's info, and for people to email you over trivialities. why would anyone bite?

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