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02:11
@Relativisticcucumber He explains that he's only studying solutions as $\xi \to \infty$ when he arrives at the $A e^{-\xi^2/2}$ solutions, he hasn't said anything about what happens for a finite $\xi$, so he's now trying to say the general solution should be of the form $h(\xi) e^{-\xi^2/2}$ where we can assume, in comparison to $e^{-\xi^2/2}$ which dominates as $\xi$ increases, that $h(\xi) \approx A$ as $\xi \to \infty$
Or rather, that $h(\xi)$ should not tend to $\infty$ more rapidly than $e^{-\xi^2/2}$ (so you can expect a possible polynomial solution)
03:06
thanks for the answer ! follow up: "so he's now trying to say the general solution should be of the form $h(\xi) e^{-\xi^2/2}$" > this is what I don't understand. why should I expect it to take this form? why is this a justifiable approach? @bolbteppa
Because you haven't said anything about the solution for finite $\xi$, all you know is that as $\xi$ approaches $\infty$ the dominant behavior of the solution is given by $e^{-\xi^2/2}$, so whatever the solution actually is, say $g(\xi)$, you can write it as $g(\xi) = [g(\xi) e^{\xi^2/2}]e^{-\xi^2/2} = h(\xi) e^{-\xi^2/2}$ and we know $h(\xi)$ can be ignored as $\xi \to \infty$
03:22
Okay, i see. so where do we impose the condition that $h(\xi)$ needs to approach $A$ as $\xi$ approaches $\infty$? @bolbteppa
Well we don't impose that it approaches $A$, we just impose that we can ignore $h(\xi)$ as $\xi \to \infty$ because the dominant behavior is given by $e^{-\xi^2/2}$ as $\xi \to \infty$, $g(\xi) = h(\xi) e^{-\xi^2/2} \approx e^{-\xi^2/2}$ as $x \to \infty$, obviously $\approx e^{-\xi^2/2} = A\approx e^{-\xi^2/2}$ if you want
Should read: obviously $e^{-\xi^2/2} \approx A e^{-\xi^2/2}$ if you prefer to include the $A$
03:51
right sorry my bad - but still the thing I don't get is that
when griffiths solves for $h(\xi)$, i never see where he imposes this condition that we can ignore $h(\xi)$ as $\xi \to \infty$. im not seeing why its assumed that the $h(\xi)$ we get will have this appropriate form
04:08
You've started by showing that the solution is $\approx e^{-\xi^2/2}$ as $\xi \to \infty$, so you know we must have $g(\xi) \approx e^{-\xi^2/2}$ as $\xi \to \infty$, therefore $g(\xi) = h(\xi) e^{-\xi^2/2} \approx e^{-\xi^2/2}$ as $\xi \to \infty$
04:43
welp i just want to jump in a well - he explains it on page 54 where the condition is imposed (well after the assumption). thanks for your help @bolbteppa
No worries
 
3 hours later…
07:50
Anyone know if there's a closed form solution to something like $f(n)-f(n-1)=5,f(0)=0$ for $n\in \mathbb{N}$?
I know nothing about difference equations but I feel like there oughta be a discrete analog to antidifferentiation
Meant to write $5n$ on the RHS
08:17
f(0) = 0
f(1) = 5*1 + 0 = 5
f(2) = 5*2 + 5 = 15
f(3) = 5*3 + 15 = 30
f(4) = 5*4 + 30 = 50
...
@JohnRennie Yeah but I was wondering if there's a convenient functional form for $f(n)$
If it were a function over the reals I could just antidifferentiate, but that doesn't seem to be possible here
Isn't the antidifferentiation just a sum by analogy?
$$f(n) = \sum_{i = 1}^n 5$$
Wouldn't that just be $5n$?
Something like that idk
to prove via induction
I don't think that'd give what JR got
If it were over $\mathbb{R}$, we'd have something like
$$\lim_{a\rightarrow 0} \frac{f(x)-f(x-a)}{\delta x} = 5x$$
In this case it's more like $\frac{f(n)-f(n-1)}{\delta n} = 5n$
where $\delta n = 1$
08:27
In computability theory, a primitive recursive function is roughly speaking a function that can be computed by a computer program whose loops are all "for" loops (that is, an upper bound of the number of iterations of every loop can be determined before entering the loop). Primitive recursive functions form a strict subset of those general recursive functions that are also total functions. The importance of primitive recursive functions lies in the fact that most computable functions that are studied in number theory (and more generally in mathematics) are primitive recursive. For example, addition...
Not quite that but you have essentially a primitive recursive function
Isn't computability theory going into fundamental stuff like mathematical logic
I don't think recursive functions are very complex
There is an analog to antidifferentiation and also a discrete FTC
In discrete calculus the indefinite sum operator (also known as the antidifference operator), denoted by ∑ x {\textstyle \sum _{x}} or Δ − 1 {\displaystyle \Delta ^{-1}} , is the linear operator, inverse of the forward difference operator Δ {\displaystyle \Delta } . It relates to the forward difference operator as the indefinite integral relates to the...
Maybe this is what I'm looking for
idk it's like 5am and this whole thing is pointless, but now I'm invested in it
$\sum_{x=m}^{n}\Delta f(x)=f(n+1)-f(m)$
This is the discrete version of FTC
08:32
So $\Delta f(x)$ here is the $f(n)-f(n-1)$ I used earlier?
$\Delta f(x):=f(x+1)-f(x)$
@SirCumference Yeah
Interesting
What's $m$?
The lower limit of summation
@SirCumference What you have is a linear recurrence relation
So is $f(m)$ like a antiderivative constant
08:33
$[a,b]\rightarrow$ discrete summation from $m$ to $n$
@ACuriousMind Oh dang, that's exactly it
Thanks
I have a booklet about this, maybe it is a bit outdated but it's fun to read. I actually bought it to learn some series summation strategies but it had a nice introduction to this stuff
"Summation of Series" by Harold T. Davis
This whole thing started 'cause I thought it'd make for a simple but interesting exercise
Then I found myself spending hours in the middle of the night
Maybe there's a lesson I could take away here lol
Fun fact, the first time I read that stuff it was in the middle of the night too
And yet I can't sum series except the most obvious ones
I wonder if calculus would be a more seamless transition if students saw the discrete analogs first
like difference equations and whatnot
08:38
Going from is discrete to calculus is actually easier than the opposite
Certain things just "disappear" in calculus
yeah I imagine
See FTC above, for example. It yields $f(n+1)-f(m)$ although the extrema are $n$ and $m$
it's kind of like what we talked about before, how QM would be easier if most people learned Hamiltonian mechanics first
That $+1$ is the discrete step and it would go to zero in the continuous limit
seems like we're often presented the more complicated case before the simple one
08:40
@SirCumference Hamiltonian mechanics would be easier too if people learned Hamiltonian mechanics first
Jk :P
@SirCumference I would say discrete calculus is actually more difficult
One thing that I don't see at all is people being taught how uncertainty propagates with classical Hamiltonian mechanics
which seems like it would be a good start
@Slereah What do you mean? Wave uncertainty?
@Feynman_00 Welp looking at the formula ACM linked, it definitely seems like it'd be more difficult than a simple antiderivative
08:41
You have some initial condition with some probability distribution bc of systematic error or whatever and then you apply the time evolution on it
but I think the basic concepts could make for a good intro before calculus
@Slereah Oh you mean that uncertainty. That is basically the problem of stat mech
It might be a nicer way to introduce the ideas of QM
In general introducing the hamiltonian flow and time evolution beforehand
I guess stat mech would also be easier if most physics students took statistics courses beforehand
stuff like entropy would be more familiar
08:44
f(n) = 2.5n² + 2.5n
Now that I remember, there is something interesting about HJ equation. It turns out you can build a wave theory from it
And it is cool if you think that HJ can be obtained as classical limit of Schrödinger wave mechanics
@JohnRennie holy crap that's right
In the same regard you obtain optics from E&M
you use the formula ACM linked?
or is there some obvious thing here
If we look at the differences between successive terms we get 5, 10, 15, 20, etc i.e. each difference increases by the same amount. Yes?
08:48
yep
This is the discrete equivalent to differentiation, so we find that f'(n) is linear in n, and that means f(n) has to be quadratic in n.
So we are looking for a function f(n) = an² + bn + c
ahh
that's really clever
c = 0 because f(0) = 0, so that simplifies our target function to f(n) = an² + bn
And you just have to find values for a and b that fit the function.
Which I did by telling Excel to do a least squares fit, but you could do it analytically by taking any two points to make a pair of simultaneous equations.
It's interesting, in the continuous case you'd just antidifferentiate and get $f(x)=ax^2 + c$
didn't expect there'd be a nonzero $b$ term
One of my students did a course on scientific computing and that involved discrete calculus.
It took me a while to dust off my memory, but once done I remembered how to solve equations like this :-)
08:56
@SirCumference There is a way to make power rule more familiar
If you define $x^{(n)}:=x(x-1)(x-2)...(x-n+1)$
It turns out $\Delta x^{(n)}=nx^{(n-1)}$
So, in your case, the discrete antiderivative of $x$ would be $\frac{x^{(2)}}{2}=\frac{x(x-1)}{2}$
I see, that makes sense
I wonder why discrete calculus is usually reserved for CS majors instead of math majors
We've got all these analysis courses but it's always $\mathbb{R}$ or $\mathbb{C}$
Because discrete calculus is just evil
There was this quote from Abel that basically said that nothing should be based on divergent series, which are an invention of the devil
@SirCumference I think you will study discrete calculus somewhere. I think it is needed for series summation
I'm starting my physics PhD
tbh I dunno how many more math courses I'm even gonna get
seems like it's mostly physics from here on out
and with research being the priority I don't imagine it's like college where I can just take a course that interests me :/
09:10
@SirCumference I should withdraw my statement :P
I wish I could at least take a probability or statistics course. That'd certainly be useful for a lot of things
Judging by what my students had to do the CS discrete calculus can get a bit scary. I think I still have the recommended book for their course if you you want it. You could work through it as a side project.
@JohnRennie Sure, what's it called?
What background do I need to use Dirac equation in Hydrogen atom?
@SirCumference Introductory Methods of Numerical Analysis - S S Sastry
09:12
thanks
You can find a copy on the Z library (allegedly)
09:24
@Feynman_00 Lecture 7-8
@bolbteppa Thanks
09:57
Hi everyone, could someone give me an example of use of the Helmholtz Potential Minimum Principle to find the equilibrium state of a pure gas system?
I'm getting crazy with this apparently stupid thing
10:28
we can also approach this using telescoping sums:

$$a_{k}-a_{k-1}=5k$$
$$\sum_{k=1}^n (a_{k}-a_{k-1})=5\sum_{k=1}^n k$$
$$ a_{n}-a_{0}=2.5n(n+1)$$
Successive terms keep cancelling out and only the first and the last term remain in the left sum. (i.e a telescoping sum)
10:40
hi
in the following question the COM moves by $\frac{1}{14}m$ when the block A has reached the bottom
does it stop after that or it continuous to move?
because the floor is frictionless
anyone?
why should it?
because the triangle moved
from its initial position
in order to conserve the x coordinate of COM
10:55
i mean, why should it stop
ohh
so it does not stop right
and moves forever?
because this is what I was thinking
i think yes, but it is asking you to calculate in the moment a touch the floor
no
one more thing
the kinetic energy that the triangle has, comes from?
gravitational potential?
in other words, how does it gain energy
it must have come from somewhere
I think it has come due to change in Gravitational Potential
Is it correct?
at the beginning is just potential energy
so yes
and not completely?
I mean if the potential energy difference was of 6J then only a little amount of energy is converted to kinetic, lets say 1J
and the remaining is used to move the block A down
11:20
@SamyakMarathe why would the difference (presumably between the potential energy of A at the top and the bottom) not be completely converted to kinetic energy? (part of it will be kinetic energy of A, the other kinetic energy of B)
12:00
0
Q: How to ask for clarification on a very old answer

insipidintegratorHello I recently was reading this question and the top answer had this line “Remember that you cannot do classical thermodynamics without equilibrium anyway.” I want an explanation of this line. The answer was made 6 years ago and the answerer’s account seems to have been deleted. So commenting o...

12:17
Man it is super hard to find some plain greek texts
like just the main text as it exists
A lot of it is either in quotations or annoted to hell
rob
rob
12:43
@Slereah Do you mean like a newspaper?
@rob Where is the geometry section
rob
rob
@Slereah Are you looking for something like Euclid?
@rob Euclid is one of the few example that is easy to find as a big book
I am currently trying to find the anti-Euclid book
rob
rob
@Slereah I don't know about "the anti-Euclid book."
"Against the geometers", by Sextus Empiricus
A book about how geometry is wrong
rob
rob
12:46
But you're looking for ancient geometry texts in their original classical languages?
Well, not the original language
I can't read ancient greek
But finding an actual copy of the book would be nice
instead of articles about it
There's no Arxiv for ancient greek texts
rob
rob
@Slereah Try discussing this bibliography with your favorite librarian.
If I must I will buy them, yes
but I am trying to find an online copy
I think after 1700 years the copyright has probably expired
rob
rob
Your favorite librarian will have advice about how to access the texts without purchasing them.
I don't have a favorite librarian
rob
rob
12:53
Well, that's your problem right there.
Last time I actually went to the public library I was trying to do an ILL and they told me they couldn't
Not the best track record
Although Sextus Empiricus is probably more available than a single copy of a thesis located in the US I guess
rob
rob
Like, the library doesn't participate in ILL, or like the particular thing you were searching for couldn't be loaned out?
Apparently they cannot do ILL with another country
rob
rob
@Slereah That makes some sense. But I would imagine that a useful translation is on a shelf somewhere in your country.
We can only hope
The question then being which one is preferable : ordering it on Amazon or taking the bus to the library
It seems reasonably priced
rob
rob
12:59
Oh, for thirteen euros I'd just buy it.
13:24
Seems like this Sextus guy was the original contrarian, everything he writes starts with "Against ..." :P
The original Lubos Motl
 
1 hour later…
14:43
Ok
15:15
@JohnRennie hi
Is it real?
I have never seen motherboard hacked
@ACuriousMind
Hi :-) How is your throat feeling today?
@JohnRennie confused sir
@JackRod UEFI rootkits don't hack "the motherboard", they hack the software running when it boots up, but yes, this is probably real
sorry I mean cannot it is very sore
@JackRod Still sore :-(
15:24
Yes
actually, I have a big allergy to pollution and these diesel cars and bike make me suffer more with incomplete combustion and throwing black carbon soot just when u I am stuck in jam with bike,make it more worse for my throat
@ACuriousMind whoaa!!!
 
1 hour later…
16:40
hello
@Slereah Oh my god, it's a real thing
@bolbteppa I am not one to fib
Sextus Empiricus (Greek: Σέξτος Ἐμπειρικός, Sextos Empeiricos; fl. mid-late 2nd century AD) was a Greek Pyrrhonist philosopher and Empiric school physician. His philosophical works are the most complete surviving account of ancient Greek and Roman Pyrrhonism, and because of the arguments they contain against the other Hellenistic philosophies, they are also a major source of information about those philosophies. In his medical work, as reflected by his name, tradition maintains that he belonged to the Empiric school in which Pyrrhonism was popular. However, at least twice in his writings, Sextus...
'Against the Physicists'
> ``Against the Geometers stands at 116 sections. It takes geometers to task for their employment of hypotheses in establishing theorems, and then attacks the hypotheses themselves, such as the definitions of body, point, line (particularly the definition of the line as ‘length without breadth’), and angle."
16:58
He was a big hater
0
Q: who has the power to delete comments to a question?

anna vToday I commented to this question What would happen when two wave functions intersect in a Fourier series representation of periodic signals? because it had "particle" in the tags, which I edited out and left a comment to that effect. Of course the revised final does not have "particle" in the t...

 
2 hours later…
18:49
@Relativisticcucumber Ok! :)
19:36
Sextus Empiricus in "Against the physicists" talks about the proton
But it just means "the first"
(the first cause)

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