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06:40
@FakeMod, this was the post I stumbled upon meta.stackexchange.com/q/225370
0
Q: Why is Q&A back-referencing allowed, but forward-referencing isn't?

OverLordGoldDragonFollowup to this Q&A <-- just like that, is fine. But this, isn't: [question here] Followup here. What's the rationale? Community defended the metacommentary rule in that they "don't belong" and "get in the way of the question" - yet, this Q&A dedicated an entire sentence with four references to...

 
2 hours later…
08:38
Anyone know how to render \AA in mathjax?
Ah, \unicode{x212B}.
Ah, I didn't know there was an Angstrom symbol. I live and learn.
@KyleOman $100\ \mathrm{pm}$ ;-)
09:04
ÅÅÅ
10:01
@JohnRennie Hi can I call you professor?Sir? Pal?
Why not just call me John? Everyone else does :-)
Sir or Pal is shorter
I call you sir since your age is greater than mine
One letter shorter. Is typing one letter less going to dramatically improve your quality of life?
@JohnRennie What programming language is preferred by you Physicists?
Do you use matlab?
I think MatLab tends to be used more by engineers than physicists. I would guess physicists tend to use Mathematica.
10:07
Well mathematician uses both
I would guess the vast majority of mathematicians use Mathematica rather than MatLab.
John Is QM intutive?
@JohnRennie Depending on how much someone addresses you, it may extend the lifespan of the keyboard by as much as 25% ;)
@WhyWhatWhereWhenHow It takes much pain and a considerable time to get to the point where QM feels even remotely intuitive.
@ACuriousMind :-)
10:16
@WhyWhatWhereWhenHow There is no programming language universally preferred by "physicists". Different languages are suited to different tasks. E.g. no-one would write simulations where every CPU cycle counts in Python, but few would write a quick script for some data evaluation in C.
@ACuriousMind True. I Was thinking mean of Physicist.
@JohnRennie So how do majority survive it? By just giving up?
You shouldn't be thinking mean of physicists, most of them are nice :P
@WhyWhatWhereWhenHow stubborness
@ACuriousMind Some of them are average and some of them are mean.
@WhyWhatWhereWhenHow You don't need "intuition" to use the formalism.
10:21
@ACuriousMind Dude but I developed my mind for rigor and intuition. Can't think of something without intution .B-P
I often feel that many people underestimate how much of "intuition" is just "being used to stuff". Basic classical mechanics is intuitive because balls flying through the air or dropping stuff to the ground are everyday events. But almost no everyday events show features characteristic of quantum mechanics, so it is unreasonable to expect to find it intuitive in the same way as classical mechanics
^ Agreed
10:34
What about G or S R(elativity)
I heard it is very intutive
And why majority cries when they hear E&M Jackson?
 
2 hours later…
user434058
12:27
@WhyWhatWhereWhenHow I don't cry, 'cause I haven't done it yet :P
user434058
@Charlie Now all are multiples of 10 :D
12:48
@WhyWhatWhereWhenHow people say it's been made delibrately notorious so that until you pull hair up your scalp for each question you don't solve it
@FakeMod You will 😈.
@MadameAkira If not made like that it is gonna be hard choosing the best student 😈.
@MadameAkira I think I know you. We have meet in past..... Wait I know that you were frin India
I don't know why. But I find I talk like @ACuriousMind in real life but here in virtual world I use sloppy words
@ACuriousMind Are you developer of Latex in Chat?
Doesn't work in Android.
@WhyWhatWhereWhenHow yes I scolded you last time for being insensitive.
toward covid-19 epidemic
Oh now I remember
oh robjohn is developer of chatjax
@MadameAkira How do Indian professor teach physics?
13:05
IITs, DU and few other college professors are the best ones you can wish for.
After them I'll put self-claimed Indian tutors on Youtube, those guys are brilliant too just don't have a degree or institution to work with.
Last come state universities. Professors there either suck or just don't feel like teaching.
and no idea about private institutions .
@WhyWhatWhereWhenHow
Do you have interest in shroud?
@WhyWhatWhereWhenHow shroud ? the gamer ?
it was carbon dated for s=1302
www.shroud.com
middle age
No man ! I have got zero interest in archaelogy, paleontology or whatever it is.
Plus we have enough artifacts here to think about.
@MadameAkira I am sure you are Male 😈
😂😂😂
13:11
:-)
@MadameAkira lol
I calculate 1302 myself
watching riverdale and seven deadly sins side by side has spoiled me
@WhyWhatWhereWhenHow zero idea what you're talking about.
it's late goodnight.
byeeee
@MadameAkira later
13:24
I am interested in papyrus scroll
lol ode made me interested on history
what is 0.99$p$ btw
is it percent?
user434058
13:58
@MadameAkira lol, how can it be late. It was barely 7 pm when you said that... Good Night at 7 pm, doesn't suit a physics student :P
14:11
@FakeMod Tell me what is transverse wave and longitudinal wave
@MadameAkira Please don't invite other users to use slurs; these are not really appropriate in any context.
ping me with answer I have work to do see ya
user434058
@WhyWhatWhereWhenHow the oscillations in a transverse wave are perpendicular (transverse) to the direction of propagation, whereas the oscillations in a longitudinal wave re along the direction of propagation of the wave.
@WhyWhatWhereWhenHow Have you tried googling these terms? Please don't randomly ping other users to answer questions whose answer is easily found.
user434058
@ACuriousMind Can we use integration by parts to integrate the dot product of two vectors. Something like this: $$\int \mathbf a \cdot \mathrm d \mathbf b=\mathbf a\cdot\mathbf b-\int \mathbf b\cdot \mathrm d \mathbf a$$
user434058
14:16
@ACuriousMind oops! I did just the same thing, sorry.
user434058
Answer if convenient...
You're not really integrating the "dot product of two vectors" there
user434058
@ACuriousMind yeah, I am integrating the dot product of an infinitesimal vector and a finite vector. But apart from the sloppy terminology, is the math right?
No. What is $b$?
When you write something like your l.h.s., it is implicit that you are evaluating the integral along some curve $\gamma$, where $\mathrm{d}b$ represents the tangent vector to that curve.
So it is not clear what you mean by $b$ on the r.h.s.
user434058
@ACuriousMind $\mathbf b$ is a vector such that $\mathbf a$ is a function of $\mathbf b$.
user434058
14:20
@ACuriousMind Oh yeah, in the original doubt I wanted to integrate the normal vector of a surface dotted another vector over that surface.
What is true is the following: There is a higher-dimensional analogue of the fundamental theorem of calculus called Stokes' theorem: $\int_V \mathrm{d}\omega = \int_{\partial V}\omega$, where $\mathrm{d}$ is the exterior derivative, $\omega$ a p-form and $V$ some p-dimensional submanifold with boundary.
user434058
@ACuriousMind Hmmm... I know Stokes' theorem, though I am not at all familiar with the topological terminology you just used :)
Now you can write $\int_V \alpha\wedge\mathrm{d}\beta = \int_{\partial V}\alpha\wedge \beta - s \int_V \mathrm{d}\alpha\wedge \beta$ where $s$ is a sign depending on the degrees of $\alpha$ and $\beta$.
user434058
@ACuriousMind what is /\ ?
the wedge product of differential forms.
If you don't know differential forms this won't make any sense to you, but they are the proper framework to formulate the higher-dimensional analogues to such statements about integration
user434058
14:23
@ACuriousMind hmm... Looking it up...
In particular, the formula I just wrote reduces to ordinary integration by parts in 1 dimension (because in 1 dimension 1-forms are just functions, too) and $V$ being an interval.
user434058
@ACuriousMind so if I want to integrate a force $\mathbf a$ (to find the potential difference) along a straight line from $0$ to $\mathbf b$, such that $\mathbf a=f(\mathbf b)$, where $f:\mathbb R^3\mapsto \mathbb R^3$, how do I do that?
very good evening to all
user434058
14 mins ago, by FakeMod
@ACuriousMind Can we use integration by parts to integrate the dot product of two vectors. Something like this: $$\int \mathbf a \cdot \mathrm d \mathbf b=\mathbf a\cdot\mathbf b-\int \mathbf b\cdot \mathrm d \mathbf a$$
user434058
Would this formula work?
14:30
I don't understand what you mean by "such that $a = f(b)$", nor do I understand what exactly you want to know - do you not know how to compute a line integral
user434058
@ACuriousMind that's what I am probably asking. Is it legal to transform a line integral like I did.
Let me perhaps be clearer: That formula makes no sense. You haven't written down what you're integrating over or at what points $a\cdot b$ is supposed to be evaluated
user434058
@ACuriousMind we can assume $\mathbf a=f(\mathbf b)=\lambda \mathbf b$ for simplicity...
Note that ordinary integration by parts is not $\int f g' = fg - \int f' g$, it's $\int_a^b f g' = [ fg ]^b_a - \int_a^b f' g$
@FakeMod why would we assume that?
user434058
@ACuriousMind just for learning purposes, just this once...
14:33
I don't think that that particular special case makes anything easier here.
user434058
@ACuriousMind :P Well, then...
Again, the meaning of your r.h.s is completely unclear - assuming some particular expression for $a$ makes no difference.
user434058
@ACuriousMind alright, let me include limits...
@FakeMod hi o want to calculate energy only?
user434058
$$\int_{0}^{\mathbf b_0}\mathbf a \cdot\mathrm d \mathbf b=\mathbf a\cdot\mathbf b\biggr|_{0}^{\mathbf b_0}-\int_{0}^{\mathbf b_0} \mathbf b\cdot \mathrm d \mathbf a$$
user434058
14:37
@Yuvraj no. This case is just an easy example chosen by me. I want the general way to integrate such a dot product.
@FakeMod That doesn't make any more sense, frankly.
user434058
@ACuriousMind could you please pinpoint the exact error?
@FakeMod There isn't an exact error, it just makes no sense: 1. What is $b_0$? 2. What is $\mathrm{d}a$ 3. you introduced $b$ as a constant vector, as a location in space, but now you also seem to use it like a function. 4. I think you're just confusing yourself by calling the line element $\mathrm{d}b$ on the l.h.s. Note that for the path $\gamma$ from $0$ to $b$, we're free to call it whatever we like, e.g. $\int_\gamma a \cdot \mathrm{d}v$.
Note that if we write the usual intergration by parts with the elements, we have a $\mathrm{d}x$ in both integrals that doesn't lose the $\mathrm{d}$. You're trying to draw analogies between the wrong parts here - $b$ is not $g$, $\mathrm{d}b$ is the same as $\mathrm{d}x$ - it doesn't really "participate" in integration by parts
user434058
@ACuriousMind Oops!My bad.1.$\mathbf b_0$ is a fixed vector in space.2.$f'(\mathbf b)\mathrm d \mathbf b$ or in other words, the infinitesimal change in $\mathbf a$ along the straight line3.That was my mistake. I didn't see that we needed to talk about limits as well, so I just thought to use $\mathrm d \mathbf b$ as an infinitesimal vector along the straight line from $0$ to $\mathbf b_0$. From now on I'll stay consistent with this notation. 4. I don't really understand what you're trying to say...
@FakeMod ...how is $b_0$ different from $b$?
What I was trying to say in my fourth point is this: We have $\int_a^b f g' \mathrm{d}x = [fg]^b_a - \int_a^b f'g\mathrm{d}x$ for "classic" integration by parts.
You seem to be trying to treat the $\mathrm{d}b$ in your line integral like the $g'$, but it's much more analogous to the $\mathrm{d}x$.
user434058
14:46
@ACuriousMind But isn't $g' \mathrm dx$ equivalent to $\mathrm d g$?
@FakeMod Yes, but then you're mixing different notation/concepts
user434058
@ACuriousMind $\mathbf b_0$ defines the end of the line, whereas, $\mathbf b$ is our variable.
When you write $\mathrm{d}g = g'\mathrm{d}x$, the only framework in which that makes sense is if you mean that as an equation of 1-forms. Given that you didn't know about differential forms until I mentioned them, I highly doubt that's what you mean.
@FakeMod Our variable for what?
user434058
@ACuriousMind So, is there a problem in my application of chain rule, or is there a problem in my definition of various parameters.
user434058
@ACuriousMind yes, I don't mean it.
14:48
Then what do you mean? What is $\mathrm{d}g$?
In integration without forms, the $\mathrm{d}x$ is just part of the notation for the integral, i.e. $\int ... \mathrm{d}x$ is a single operator. You can't just take the $\mathrm{d}x$ and do stuff with it.
user434058
@ACuriousMind it's the vector along the line joining $0$ and $\mathbf b_0$, and it runs from $0$ to $\mathbf b_0$. Thus $\mathrm d \mathbf b$ is an infinitesimal change along the line joining $0$ and $\mathbf b_0$.
It doesn't work that way
user434058
@ACuriousMind Oops! Then I suppose I have been doing some illegal stuff lately :P
user434058
@ACuriousMind yeah, It seems I am assuming some weird stuff without involving the necessary rigour.
When you write $\mathrm{d}b$ for the line element in a line integral $\int a \cdot \mathrm{d}b$, what you mean is that $\mathrm{d}b$ represents the tangent vector to the line at each point. It's not that $\mathrm{d}b$ is the derivative of $b$ in any way, which is why I pointed out that we're free to rename the line element, e.g. write $\int a \cdot \mathrm{d}s$ and still mean the same integral.
user434058
14:53
@ACuriousMind alright, I agree. So let's just assume that $\mathrm d \mathbf b$ is a tangent vector to the line at each point, what next?
You just compute the integral $\int a \cdot \mathrm{d}b$ from the definition of a line integral and stop trying to make strange manipulations :P
user434058
@ACuriousMind Like compute the dot product at each point and then do the normal "scalar" integration, right?
@FakeMod I don't really know what that's supposed to mean, either. Just look at the definition.
There is a normal scalar integration, yes, but you first need a parametrization. The $\mathrm{d}b$ is really just a symbol - again $\int ... \cdot \mathrm{d}b$ is a single operator, not something that consists of individual parts.
I have to confess that I don't understand why you're trying to do integration by parts on a line integral when you seem unsure how it is even defined in the first place. Walk before you run!
user434058
@ACuriousMind so, in the above example, since $\mathrm d\mathbf b=\mathrm d \mathbf r$, and assuming $\mathbf a =\lambda \mathbf b =\lambda \mathbf r$, we get:$$\int_0 ^{\mathbf b_0}\mathbf a\cdot \mathrm d\mathbf b=\int_0 ^{\mathbf b_0} \lambda \mathbf r\mathrm d\mathbf r=\int_0 ^{|\mathbf b_0|} \lambda r\mathrm dr=\frac{\lambda r^2}{2}\biggr|_0 ^{|\mathbf b_0|}=\frac{\lambda |\mathbf b_0|^2}{2}$$ Is this correct?
user434058
@ACuriousMind I think that I kinda know what a line integral is, but I was just messing around...
15:19
@knzhou I'm late to the party, but -- hundreds of crackpot questions per month is probably a smidge of an over-estimate, no?
@bolbteppa Hope you don't mind me pinging you while you're not here, just wanted to say your electrodynamics wisdom allowed me to salvage an extra 5% or so on my exam yesterday so thank you :)
 
2 hours later…
skz
skz
16:58
hi. I have a question about rescaling of coupling constants in the wilsonain renormalization group (asked here ).
in the landau-ginzburg hamiltonian (phi^4 theory) we get a correction to the t coupling (like the mass in phi4) which depends on the coupling constant of the phi^4 term, call it u. When the couplings are rescaled, why isn't the u in the correction to t also rescaled?
17:32
@Charlie nice haha
@Slereah re-looking at the Scherk string paper, seems like once you get the wave equation $\ddot{x}_n^{\mu} + n^2 x_n^{\mu} = 0$ a direct motivation for the $a_n^{\mu}$ (I.47) is to say this last equation comes from a Harmonic Oscillator Hamiltonian $\frac{1}{2}(\dot{x}_n^2 + n^2 x_n^2)$ but you want it in units of $\frac{1}{\alpha'}$ so that the integrated Hamiltonian is dimensionless and then you just break $\frac{1}{2 \alpha'}(\dot{x}_n^2 + n^2 x_n^2)$ into creation and annihilation operators
 
4 hours later…
21:42
@FakeMod Very intutive explanation.

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