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vzn
vzn
01:56
@henceproved the orthodox view can be found everywhere, in any textbook, all over this site, and the idea is that there is no known or conceivable/ plausible connection between EM waves and de broglie waves (those found in the sch. eqn.). the unorthodox view is that this is utterly and completely mistaken and linking the 2 correctly is the key to progress/ 21st century physics, past the current impasse caused by or due to (overreliance on) compartmentalized/ reductionistic thinking.
> The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. —Fitzgerald
@vzn the "orthodox" view is not so orthodox as a matter of fact.
this is quite a tricky argument.
The proponent of the "orthodox" view are quite vocal but this does not make them right.
vzn
vzn
@ZeroTheHero btw am not claiming to be an expert on either pov :) ... am listening...?
See Hawton, Margaret. "Photon wave functions in a localized coordinate space basis." Physical Review A 59.5 (1999): 3223.
there is other work by this person...
let me find more.
vzn
vzn
@ZeroTheHero actually both positions characterized by me are extreme and credible work "in the middle" can be found. havent seen H&M ref will look a little... anyway the unorthodox pov is generally quite rare to run across, although scattered... am usually quite surprised to hear anyone with over 5K rep on the site express any interest whatsoever :)
actually again I think this is a case of he (or she) who speaks louder gets more attention.
there's other (more recent) work on this topic but I can't remember.
I must admit I don't follow this debate and I find the arguments convoluted..
plus it's not what tiggers do best.. i have alternate priorities.
There's a young postdoc in there...
vzn
vzn
02:04
"tiggers"? "postdoc"? actually have compiled a very long list of unorthodox work myself, am overdue to write latest survey/ summary, its quite substantial now, but unclear how close to a tipping point any of it is.
"That's not what tiggers do best"... from Winnie the Pooh...
vzn
vzn
as for "speaking loudest," it was bohr over einstein (et al!) :P
So the postdoc is called Vincent Debierre.
He has a google scholar page...
he did some work with Hawton on this general topic.
vzn
vzn
@ZeroTheHero 1 or some might say anything other than "shut up and calculate" is "convoluted" lol! but always refreshing to occasionally run into a devils advocate, or devils passerby :)
and there's a string of PRA papers by Hawton...
back when PRA was reputable.
It makes for entertaining conference talks... ;)
There's another guy...
vzn
vzn
02:13
googling debierre leads to unusual angles. has a somewhat vague facebook page, but google mentions a phd... maybe a phd philosophy? how about this for a curve ball? Postmodern Theory Returns to Continental Europe quillette.com/2018/05/26/…
No... phD in physics for sure... From marseille I think.
so there's also an interesting guy... Gabriel Barton, emeritus professor at Sussex.
He did a lot of work on "unusual" stuff like this... very clever man.
vzn
vzn
on arxiv, lots of solid physics papers but seemingly none along the lines you mention. he does have some "BSM" beyond standard model interest but nothing very edgy it would seem. arxiv.org/search/…
anyways... The hard core proponent of the "orthodox" view is a Polish person with some difficult-to-write name...
vzn
vzn
oh saw "Dr of philosophy" on this researchgate pg but guess that just means "standard" Phd? researchgate.net/profile/Vincent_Debierre
yes.
PhD = Philosophiae Doctor
vzn
vzn
02:17
but few physics Phds write on postmodernism lol ;)
Unfortunately Barton has retired but he was a source of quite interesting papers on eclectic topics.
and he has a sweet book on special relativity.
vzn
vzn
thx for refs will continue to follow up. have a very long list myself have been dabbling in this subject many yrs now incl in this chat room. somehow we havent crossed paths yet.
Iwo Bialynicki-Birula
This is the more "orthodox" view... not sure why but it is.
vzn
vzn
the most recent work in this area is on hydrodynamics analogues. have you looked into fluid dynamics much?
no...
only so many hours in a day.
vzn
vzn
02:22
yes.
Ok I need to go back to my stuff... I'm exhausted but need to finish something for tomorrow morning and it's already late.
vzn
vzn
ok. what are you working on? chat, maybe/ hopefully to be contd at some other time :)
I have to finish preparing final exams
vzn
vzn
ok take it easy, later/ thx again :)
I have to double check everything 'cuz it's all remote so it's not as if I can fix typos on the fly...
stay safe.
vzn
vzn
02:28
u2!
@ZeroTheHero lol 2nd thought, a ref to LuMo? but hes czech...
 
3 hours later…
user434058
05:22
-2
Q: Is it ever possible to predict the future of a person using Quantum Mechanics?

mvr950Can Quantum Mechanics ever predict the future of a broken person's life? Can it say what does the future hold for them? Is it ever possible to calculate the future by Quantum Mechanics?

user434058
"Broken person's life" LOL
06:22
morgen
@ZeroTheHero I think all people involved are in agreement about the fact that there is no position operator (not even Newton-Wigner-like) acting on photon states. This means that there is no naive wavefunction $\langle x\vert \psi\rangle$.
What they disagree about is whether or not it is meaningful to define variant "wavefunctions" that kinda-but-not-completely act like the naive wavefunction in many ways, except that there is still no real position operator for it, so you can't straightforwardly interpret it as a position probability amplitude on it's own.
You get purists that say "that's not a wavefunction" and you get pragamatists that don't really care (and probably find the purists annoying :P)
Hi guys........Can anyone clear some of my confusions in electrostatics?
For instance, the stuff Hawton constructs has a "position" operator that's not a 3-vector.
What you get people now actually disagreeing about is what, exactly, these non-standard wavefunctions can or can not be used for, and what covariance properties the results possess.
ACuriousMind Can you help me?
@lorilori we can try. What's the question?
06:49
I asked this question yesterday. I have a thin conducting spherical shell. Once it is charged, the electrons will evenly distribute on its surface. Bu right now, I am not supposing the charged shell to be made up of electrons. I am supposing the shell to be made of continuous surface charge density(σ).
Now by any kinds of reasoning or by any kinds of experiment, I have to show that surface charge density(σ) is constant all over the thin conducting spherical shell. Can you please guide me?
@lorilori The potential is proportional to the charge density, and the potential is the same everywhere on the sphere because it is a conductor. Yes?
07:21
Sphere is a conductor ⟹ the potential is the same everywhere on the sphere ...(1)
The potential has to be the same everywhere in a conductor. That's because if there was any electric field inside a conductor the free charges inside the conductor would move in response to the field. This would rearrange the charge until the field became zero.
potential ∝ σ ⟹ potential = constant σ ⟹ constant = constant σ ⟹ σ = constant. Is this what you were saying?
07:50
To be more precise, does it goes like this: V= ∫ σ f(r) dV ⟹ k V = ∫ (kσ) f(r) dV ⟹ V ∝ σ ⟹ V = constant σ ⟹ constant = constant σ ⟹ σ = constant.
where f(r) is an unknown function of $r$
From Coulomb's law we know f(r)=1/r
Am I missing anything?
08:04
The actual expression for the potential would be complicated because the potential is due to all the charge on the sphere and for an uneven charge distribution this would have a complicated dependence on $r$.
Sorry... I meant "V= ∫ σ f(r) dS ⟹ k V = ∫ (kσ) f(r) dS ⟹ V ∝ σ ⟹ V = constant σ ⟹ constant = constant σ ⟹ σ = constant." where V is potential at a free space point due to thin spherical shell................... What is meant by "actual expression of potential"? Is not the expression for potential "V= ∫ (σ/r) dS" same for all continuous surface charges in classical electrostatics?
 
2 hours later…
10:00
does laws of thermodynamics applicable to microscopic particle?i mean in a quantum state ,actually i was reading a book who has this question ,i am not sure about the answer can anybody help?
10:16
@YuvrajSingh... Many of the laws of thermodynamics apply to statistical system in equilibrium. A single particle is not a thermodynamic system (for one there is no meaningful definition of "equilibrium" for it), but you'll have to be more specific about what you're trying to do if this doesn't answer your question.
10:28
@ACuriousMind ok ,what i meant was ,that there are different type theory descrbing about how are system work [ system refers to our nature] does laws of thermodynamics are well accepted in this theories ?
user434058
@Slereah Bonjour
13:15
So anyway I was working on this problem
The reasoning it provides is that positive charge is deficiency of electron and negative means excess of electrons
So it got me wondering if there is another way to charge a body?
One which does not involve movement of electrons?
Or one that would make the above answer wrong
At least in a given circumstance?
Thanks for help!
13:51
@HrishabhNayal hi Hrishabh :-)
You can charge a positive object by adding positive ions to it. For example you could fire alpha particles at the sphere. In that case the positive sphere would end up weighing more than the negative sphere because alpha particles are heavier than two electrons.
Hi all. The thing is: I need a answer of comment but it's kind check my work so the people tend to do not answer. But this is precisely what I need right now. Can you give me a light?
0
Q: Doubt on the understanding of the role of Quotient Spaces on Tensor Product construction

BasicMathGuyI'm studyin,g for the first time, the Tensor Product of Vector Spaces. After the answer of a particular question, $[1]$, I think that I grasped the key point of the role of Quotient Vector Space; the answer is: It's literally immediately from the definition of quotient. If $V/W$ is a quotient...

@HrishabhNayal I think it's a poorly defined question. If it said the positive sphere was charged by removing electrons from it and the negative sphere was charged by adding electrons to it then it would be obvious the negative sphere weighed more. But as it is the question cannot be answered.
14:43
hi everyone today I was watching a film where one of character as a physicist says 'energy and time is the best two things to define a state of matter or a particle .was he right ?if we know about energy and time of a particle can we define it's state or would we need some other factor too ?
@JohnRennie ions , electrons, and alpha particles have negligible mass when we compare with mass of sphere which has not mentioned.
in the question
@JohnRennie Yes! I knew it . I knew something was off about that question, Just could not figure out what it was. Thanks!!
@AaronStevens hey!how are you ?
@YuvrajSingh... yes, the change in the mass would probably be immeasurably small.
@JohnRennie certainly
@JohnRennie what for today?
@YuvrajSingh... What movie was that?
14:57
@BasicMathGuy looks okay
@YuvrajSingh... risotto made with green beans and red onions :-)
@YuvrajSingh... Fine. How are you?
15:29
@AaronStevens I am too good.
Have you noticed my question?
@YuvrajSingh... No
hi everyone today I was watching a film where one of character as a physicist says 'energy and time is the best two things to define a state of matter or a particle .was he right ?if we know about energy and time of a particle can we define it's state or would we need some other factor too
This one!
What is the "time of a particle"?
@YuvrajSingh... The quote is nonsense. Sometimes energy defines a state uniquely, sometimes it doesn't. It's wholly unclear how "time" would correspond to a state at all. You shouldn't expect movies to make rigorous scientific sense.
@ACuriousMind Don't be too quick to that conclusion. I used to think the movie "Groundhog Day" was nonsense. But now it is reality :P
15:40
lol
@ACuriousMind I classify all states of matter and particles that way. For example, hydrogen is clearly the state of 56 MJ and approximately 35.7 seconds; because of reasons.
Well the hydrogen that I analyzed in my time-ometer.
The proper word would be chronometer, but...that's just a clock :P
@JMac Temporal position indicator?
@ACuriousMind Yeah that's something totally different. That's for measuring duration of time between events. To measure the time that a particle or state of matter contains, you need a time-ometer, which just directly measures the time content of the object, using... science?
"Fourier-transformed energy measurement device"
15:47
Ah yes. Knowing the energy and time of a particle is actually redundant due to the Fourier transform
If you associate a frequency to the total energy of your particle using E = hf that gives you a characteristic time equal to 1/f. I wonder if that has any physical significance ....
Not for the total energy, but for the energy width of a particle resonance you get the lifetime of the particle that way
@ACuriousMind ah it's related to the Compton wavelength of the particle.
The Compton wavelength is $\lambda = c t_{JR}$
Damn, beaten to it by a hundred years.
@JohnRennie How much energy were you beaten by then?
That's going to be a long Compton wavelength :-)
@AaronStevens I make it about $10^{-24}$ eV.
16:00
@JohnRennie Eh, not too shabby then :)
Bite me Arthur Compton!
-1
Q: Berkeley Physics Course

peaceIs there a solution manual for the third volume of Berkeley Physics Course (i.e. waves)? How I can find the answers? i really need it.

oops
16:20
Hi, everyone. I was thinking about quantum-mechanics when the following thought came to me. Consider a particle like electron. By de-borgli equation, this electron has a wave equation $\psi$. Now we know that electron has mass but waves doesn't, so how do I account for mass of electron in the $\psi$ description. One way I thought a way out of this conundrum is the mass is irrelevant and only momentum is relevant,
and wave and particles both have momentum (although defined by different formula in each case). Is this the right intrepretation.
@henceproved Counterquestion: The state of a classical particle is completely defined by its position and velocity. How do you account for its mass there?
The answer in QM is exactly the same.
actually that what i wrote that mass should be irrelevant in physics in the last part of my statement. But somehow this statement seems to me a bit radical and hence wanted to confirm
Mass is clearly not irrelevant, otherwise we wouldn't have introduced it as a concept in the first place!
Again, first answer the question classically: How is mass relevant there? Then just look for the analogy in QM.
let me think about it for a moment
actually mass controls the acceleration due to external potential. And also shrondinger equation has mass term, hence the evolution of wave equation is determined by the mass of the particle.
Exactly :)
16:31
yeah i think earlier I was mixing newtonian wave with wave equation.
It's easy to do QM and become used to it being "weird" so that one loses track of which peculiarities are really quantum and which are general features of both classical and quantum mechanics. It's always instructive to look for the classical analogy, if one exists - either to see that it's the same, or to see how exactly QM is different.
16:48
CDT+ER=EPR much?
Causality is still somewhat inbuilt in his model, because he started with digraphs and then evolve them according to a matching rule
But I recall some background independent theories can go further and make causality itself emergent
"But one of the beautiful outcomes of our project so far has been the realization that at some deep level general relativity and quantum mechanics are actually the same idea" okay this is some serious nonsense
Both needs to emerge from a ToE, no?
I recall some quantum gravity candidates tries to do that like string theory and energy causal sets
'elementary particles...are all assumed to intrinsically be point particles, of zero size. In our models, that’s not how it works. The particles are all effectively “little lumps of space” that have various special properties' I'm sure he's not doing string theory, and I'm sure he's not denying SR by pretending particles are rigid bodies, I'm sure this idea which physics literally can't bypass is somehow casually bypassed as if it's no gigantic deal or anything haha
yeah, I think his treatment on the GR side is shaky. Like you do not see a spacetime diagram, you only see a graph where space and time are independent axes, and that does not match what GR said
some of the ideas like entanglement are correlations however are not new and are quite explored in some background independent models, mostly stemmed from that EPR=ER conjecture of Carl Sagan
'The “core feature” of each particle will be some kind of locally stable structure in the hypergraph' oh right...
17:04
Aren't causal dynamics triangulation kinda similar to what he is doing, like, start with some abstract geometric object, give it some rules so they connect in certain ways, and then spacetime pops up?
though I don't recall many theories except string theory tries to explain particles
most background independent theories mostly deals with trying to reproduce GR, like loop quantum gravity weaving out spacetime from spin networks
17:30
@Secret Sagan conjectured EPR=ER?
Please be careful in answering homework-type questions. There are websites offering to write calculus exams for $300, amount to be negotiated depending on the grade required.
Questions from the online exams are turning up on online sites.
17:47
ugh
@ZeroTheHero given the recent enforced shift to online exams, I can't say I'm surprised
I'm not surprised either...
Definitely distasteful tho
In fact anyone truly surprised should have his/her head examined.
Still...
And anyone who -says- they're surprised should perhaps have their pocketbook examined :P
in some ways a calculus exam is even harder to police than a physics exam.
but still...
everyone with half a brain knew that online exams would produce this mess but in their wisdom universities decided to go that way anyways.
17:53
Well, the only real alternative would have been to renegotiate the necessity of exams :P
@Semiclassical Sorry misattributed, it should be Susskind
what I mixed up is an issue of NewScientist mentioned Sagan on that
@ACuriousMind This is a story of compounding errors actually.
Of course now that the students were allowed to return home you're stuck with this "online only" mode.
speaking as someone who is involved in undergrad physics teaching, i can testify that we're all -aware- of the likelihood of cheating
@ZeroTheHero Are you implying you'd have preferred that the students stay in their dorms?
but there's not really any way of preventing it which is not overly burdensome/invasive
18:01
I am amazed that my local supermarket can manage to keep their employees safe behind a transparent shield but that my university (well... pretty much all universities) could not manage to come up with something reasonable.
(my understanding is that most US undergrads live in dorms, maybe that's wrong)
some do.
there are certainly residences.
education is not an essential service. groceries are
I simply imagine that no university official wanted to be the one explaining to the parents how the entire dorm got the virus
18:03
I can guarantee that no university official would want to do that.
I mean: in this age where everybody is suing everybody else...
it's also not really possible to do things like exams under the 6 foot guideline
ok, who's following Wolfram's new Physics thing?
the possible liabilities are enormous.
Also, what Semiclassical said - university is not essential, and students are not even employees, so I don't really see how you could make the moral case to coerce them to attend in person, even ignoring the legal problems
@AaronHall it just looks ridiculous tbh
@AaronHall Waiting for the peer-reviewed publication in a journal over here.
Dude's a genius, so I'm entertaining his ideas.
This is a clear PR move ("preorder the book now!"), nothing else.
@ACuriousMind you can't do that anyways... I mean... practically you cannot force students to come to classes - at least I certainly don't manage attendence.
the question however is how does one balance the academic integrity of a program with the other imperatives of the situation.
and academic integrity was the big looser.
'cuz let's be clear... this doesn't end this year.
@ZeroTheHero Yes, but in normal times "attend this exam in person or fail the class" is a perfectly fine demand. I don't see it as nearly as defensible now.
18:07
I see we're talking academic policy - I figure we may lose a bit of learning as we require students to take classes remotely, but surely we'll be back in class by Fall.
Half the value of education is in the signalling, after all... :)
@AaronHall I will be you a virtual beverage that it's not that likely.
How do I collect?
well... I dunno... you can sign up for an online beverage.
I'm not sure how the situation can be managed... but that's not my pay grade. What I see is no attempt to manage it.
I mean... look. If I live in Bergamo or Madrid I don't want to go to school.
(or NYC)
I'm not sure how one can make this sensible for international students either...
We've found that 13% of pregnant women in NYC are testing positive for COVID-19 and are asymptomatic, implying that 1 million New Yorkers already have it - herd immunity isn't too far off.
If you are from China or India, and went back home at some point before the travel restrictions, I'm not sure how realistic it is to expect you can take a final exam in the afternoon Eastern US time.
18:14
@AaronHall How does that contribute to herd immunity...? Positive but asymptomatic seems like it wouldn't really be herd immunity; plus you would need a much higher portion of the population than 13%...
well... there isn't much to do at this point except try to mitigate the situation.
I'm taking classes in NYC (started a new masters in stats) and we have lots of Chinese students, I met one from Wuhan even, and I don't believe anyone went to where the outbreak actually was...
he's still showing up in the online classes...
@AaronHall I might be able to collect on my bet in you are in NYC...
Future enrollment is likely hurt, but I imagine everyone still wants to complete.
@ACuriousMind maybe all calculus exams in North America should be at the same time (more or less)... doable over 3 times zones so that demand for exam takers locally overwhelms supply...
18:18
It's a political question - can you force the population to stay away after they've already had it and presume they won't get it again? I doubt it.
Wolfram does a history of Physics here: twitch.tv/videos/588480539 - I'd be interested in your thoughts...
@ZeroTheHero Cue sudden outage of several small internet providers...
:D
oh the things one can imagine...
@ZeroTheHero - so which time zone of the lower 48 is the odd one out?
In the olden times, it was "The dog ate my homework" now it's "The dog chewed up our ethernet cable".
@JonCuster I dunno... I'm sure at least one state has strange restrictions.
18:26
Doesn't Australia have some weird half-hour zone?
no... Iran, Newfoundland...
@ACuriousMind - there are a few of those around the globe.
I think India... it is now midnight in Bengalore.
> The cosmic background radiation provides a rest frame for the Universe and we're all moving through it at 1/1000th the speed of light. - Stephen Wolfram
It's now 4am in Adelaide so one of the Australian state must be on a 1/2 time-zone
Afganistan.
@ACuriousMind so I stand corrected...
Australia has "regular" times zones and "half" time zones.
Adelaine in the South and Darwin in the north are on half time zones but Brisbane, Sydney and Perth are on full hour time zones.
18:35
From Wiki: "Newfoundland, India, Iran, Afghanistan, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, the Marquesas, as well as parts of Australia use half-hour deviations from standard time, and some nations, such as Nepal, and some provinces, such as the Chatham Islands of New Zealand, use quarter-hour deviations."
@AaronHall No need to attribute it to Wolfram, that's a standard cosmology fact, cf. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background#Features- What one could quibble with the is categorization of the CMB frame as "the universe's rest frame", but, eh, close enough.
I think somewhere in India has a 15 minute difference. Newfoundland is definitely 1/2 an hour off from "regular" time zones. It's where my company headquarters is at, so it messes with some timings when you forget they are slightly ahead.
puzzling.stackexchange.com/a/97093/29641 Ah right I read this today. It's the India-Nepal border with a 15 minute difference.
@JonCuster Both Christchurch on the south island and Auckland on the north island are now at 6:37am
Since it's an interesting way of putting it I need to cite the source
lest I wrongfully get the attribution and then be asked to defend the idea
18:53
How're y'all faring with the pandemic
It's a mess.
students are scrambling...
some graduate students are locked out of their labs.
very unfortunate for the students who put in the work...
I feel they are getting shortchanged...
Everyone ought to be safe... the international students are stuck because of travel restrictions and price gouging by airlines...
Not the way education should be.
 
2 hours later…
vzn
vzn
21:15
@AaronHall skimming it now, am a decades long wolfram fan. hypergraphs are great but am dubious of them for modelling space/ physics; the emergent properties from "rewrite rules" he finds are remarkable but seemingly awkward/ unintuitive. however, this following idea (which he just cited in his blog) is very deep + promising + along the lines of my own decades of research: some basic CA rules can reproduce fluid dynamic like behavior. wolframscience.com/nks/p378--fluid-flow
BTW @ACuriousMind how did you make out with Eloy?
 
1 hour later…
22:18
@Charlie Remember, don't edit questions that were recently closed :)
22:34
Sorry some of them take me a few minutes to type out and by the time I've submitted they are closed
Or at least that's what I assume happened, I don't edit if I see it's closed
Yeah you did edit that one before the close went through.
@JMac Closed 3 hours ago but edited 45 minutes ago?
@AaronStevens " edit approved 46 mins ago "
Ugh I forgot about the approval process
Sorry about that :)
He was 17 minutes before the closure
22:43
Yeah and I was one of the users who approved it haha
At first I thought the same thing, it's only when you click the edit history that it clears it up lol
I'll just go to bed now and start over tomorrow
It could have been worse, you could have said it to someone who would have assumed you were just trying to impose the mainstream dictatorship.
the plot thickens
@JMac That was actually what I was trying to do. Did it not come across that way?
22:46
@AaronStevens You didn't come across as fascist enough IMO.
Ah, I am losing my edge
The smiley was a nice touch for dictatorial oppression though. People react better when you oppress them with a smile.
I don't know of any other way
Well then you just might have what it takes kid
(read in old-timey voice)
@JMac Well I have recently learned how to post answers after questions are closed, so time to get my oppression on
22:51
I never even thought of that application! Off topic as non-mainstream? Post a late answer explaining that the question is just completely baseless; but provide no evidence of my own. That'll assert the mainstream dominance.
@JMac As long as no critical thinking is involved I am in
As long as we refuse to think critically, we will remain strong.

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