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10:09 PM
@heather I don't even know what that is :P
 
I think it's a 3-D printing software?
 
vzn
> These equations do not require a preexisting space-time, making it possible to realize the concept that space-time and all structures therein arise as a result of the collective interaction of the sea states with each other and with the additional particles and "holes" in the sea. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
 
@vzn is it cranky? Doesn't look like it perimeterinstitute.ca/videos/…
 
@ACuriousMind it's a cad program
for modeling stuff
 
10:25 PM
3 years old
any movement on that front?
 
@bolbteppa If you look at the history of the Wiki page, it's written mostly by two users, one of whom seems to be Finster himself. Rather dubious.
No citations or developments by people who are not Finster.
 
hmmm...so nobody is interested?
Other than the author himself?
 
Passage in the "Dirac sea" article also instead by that 'Pfpguy' user. Doesn't seem very trustworthy.
 
very strong claims
it's conceptually problematic to remove the space-time and have it be an emergent system...at least it is for me.
 
Earliest appearence of this stuff seems to be around 2000, cf. arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0001048, there's a few talks etc. but I can't find anything that Finster is not directly involved in.
Almost 20 years is a rather long time for no one to pick this up independently :P
 
10:37 PM
hmmm
any explicit refutations in any way though?
Like the other "Theory of Everything" at least has a lot of criticisms
 
@ACuriousMind nice spot
@nattyover There are various other candidates for a theory of everything, eg Alain Connes' noncommutative geometry, Asymptotically Safe Gravity, causal fermion systems, E8 theory. The statement that M-theory is the only candidate isn't only misleading, it's plainly wrong.
 
Oh, he included E8 theory
 
The E8 thing is the hilarious joke article discussed two days ago, this cfs thing has question marks
The noncommutative geometry recently got serious predictions wrong
she*
 
@enumaris Can't find any, but starting to read arxiv.org/abs/1605.04742 I can see why - it's not wrong, but it doesn't give you any motivation as to why we're looking at the things we're looking at in the first few pages.
 
hmmm
but surely as a physical theory at some point it's gotta make some predictions
and then there can be some criticisms
no?
 
10:45 PM
@enumaris Well, but am I really gonna read through this tome in order to find out when it finally does?
 
is it just covered in so much math that nobody has bothered to sift through it?
 
@enumaris I mean, as a theorist, you have to develop a heuristic that tells you whether it's worth it to engage in depth with a new proposal or not
 
hmm
right, but there's generally people willing to sift through stuff (e.g. referees)
I mean, people even sifted through that one math theory that proved the ABC conjecture
 
Starting to read the article I linked, I almost immediately go "???" when "actions" are introduced that do not look like ordinary actions, and several classes of objects are defined without any indication as to why one would care about these objects.
 
well then...
 
10:48 PM
@enumaris That one 1. was written by a mathematician with prior acclaim 2. purported to solve a major outstanding conjecture 3. had precedent in Wiles' proof of Fermat's theorem also being a major body of work.
 
well with regards to point 2., purporting to be a theory of everything is surely at least as compelling as purporting to solve a major outstanding conjecture.
 
Sure, 2. alone is just what everyone wants to claim
 
Point 1. is kind of appeal to authority...point 3. I'm not sure what you mean. Like Wile's proof was also really long and complicated so it made mathematicians more likely to read another long and complicated thing?
I'm not making any statement on whether it is fruitful to consider this causal fermion thing seriously, but only wondering why some theories get read and some others don't. Is it...politics? Fame and reputation? Audacity of the claim? Simplicity of the work? hmmm
what if causal fermions was written by Steve Weinberg? You think people would read it and take it seriously?
 
@enumaris All of that, yes.
 
hmmm
so this guys is 1. not famous (-), 2. making a big claim (+), 3. hugely convoluted (-) while the ABC conjecture guy was 1. famous (+), 2. making a big claim (+), 3. hugely convoluted (-)
2 +'s and you're taken seriously? :D
 
10:55 PM
I mean, if you're a Field's medal winner I'm willing to read through a lengthy paper of yours before declaring it bollocks. If you're someone I've never heard of and the first few pages of your work seem iffy already, I'm probably gonna stop reading. I see where that's a concerning attitude but otherwise theorists would just spend most of their time reading through the kind of stuff that gets published on viXra by the dozen.
 
I should call it a Law
hmmm yeah, true
Did this guy submit to a legit journal?
Not just arxiv
 
No Motl article on this stuff :(
We are lost
 
@enumaris Yes, although high-profile theory journals like Comm. Math. Phys. are conspicuously absent from the list.
 
were they accepted by those journals?
 
He did his phd with one of those rigorous qft guys so that's a plus to some at least
 
11:02 PM
@enumaris Apparently? I mean, as I said, the stuff doesn't seem outright wrong. It's not "crackpot" level, it just has major deficits in convincing me it actually relates to reality, which is par for the course for a lot of theory :P
 
I see
so it at least has an upper hand over E8
which is only submitted to arxiv
afaik
 
@bolbteppa The math seems okay-ish. But I'm pages in and I still don't know why I should believe any of these postulates :P
 
I mean, you can say about ST or LQG and so on what you will, but they usually do a good job in at least trying to explain why you should believe them
 
well with a physical theory it should be if the postulates are not too contrived, and they lead to a wide class of predictions and those predictions are correct, then one should "believe" them.
 
11:04 PM
@enumaris You've never done pure theory, have you? :P
 
if he can show, e.g. that his theory clearly reduces to all the known and experimentally verified theories in the appropriate limit, then I would start taking him pretty seriously :P
heh, I didn't do theory building at the level of coming up with new theories
but my work is theoretical in the sense that I was simulating previously unsimulated enviornments
 
These days, there's a dearth of unexplained phenomena in fundamental physics - sure, we have dark matter and stuff, but there's no really concrete observation we have to explain
This was much different in the 60s, when the particle zoo provided a wealth of mysterious but concrete observations to develop your theory against.
 
it helps when you can just keep modifying your theory (SM) in little ways to accommodate developments
e.g. massive neutrinos
 
and figured out the solidworks problem
life is good
 
Does string theory produce neutrino oscillations naturally? <---not really sure how to define "naturally" here though
@heather will you print me an infinity gauntlet then?
kthx
 
11:09 PM
@enumaris ah...no
 
:(
 
@enumaris I also have to say that the writing/citation style in this paper is rather concerning. Usually, when a grand new theory is proposed, you'd want to connect it to what came before, citing established mainstream in support of your theory. This is the opposite: Every page has about 5 citations to the authors own papers, and only very sparing citations of anything else
 
hmmm
well Einstein famously only had what 2 citations for special relativity?
 
This is a major red flag. But maybe the author is just unlucky in that he's just not a gifted expositor.
 
but I guess in the modern age, the practice is to cite everything even tangentially related
 
11:12 PM
The reddit wasn't happy
 
@enumaris Physics a century ago was very different from the interconnected web it is today
 
Sometimes referees will prompt you to cite more...I have a feeling they just want their papers cited...
Both my papers had 100+ citations because of referee request. Started at like 30, then they were like "not enough"...uhh.....
 
Also, a lot of the not-self-citations are citations of standard textbooks.
(L&L, Schwabl, Sakurai, etc.)
 
does he claim to have built his theory entirely from scratch?
 
@enumaris It seems like it.
 
11:15 PM
hmmmm
 
At least there's no acknowledgement of prior work by anyone but himself that i've seen so far
 
@enumaris you don't want me building anything of importance in solidworks
 
but like, are you seeing places where he should have cited others?
 
(Referencing those books another + at least)
 
@heather the infinity gauntlet is just a holder, I'll gather the stones myself, no worries
 
11:17 PM
Maybe this is better
 
@enumaris I'm not sure, the whole structure of this "introduction" is very weird and I'm frankly not very motivated to read on.
 
Claims to at least link it to known physics
 
@enumaris but its gotta withstand all the power. has to be well designed/copied.
 
lol ok
 
@heather I'll contract you to print miniatures, then. They're not "of importance" :)
 
11:19 PM
@ACuriousMind miniatures of what?
 
@heather Assorted fantasy creatures
 
i mean, if not of importance, great, but i'm not sure you'd be satisfied with the quality =) sounds pretty cool though.
 
by fantasy creatures are we talkin...SUSY particles here?
 
lol, I was just idly thinking about this as a way to get miniatures for tabletop games :P
@bolbteppa Aha- that is short enough to be at least concretely questionable! :P
 
let me know the results of your analysis
if concrete criticisms form or not
 
11:27 PM
There's almost no discussion of this stuff online
Even the cranks can't understand it
 
First major issue I note is that he defines an operator that produces values of wavefunctions at specific points. But anyone familiar with the actual mathematics of the "contemporary physics" of wavefunctions knows that the value of a wavefunction as a single point is ill-defined/cannot be physically important
 
lol
hmmm...
 
The reddit people were referencing this article. 'in all honesty in this article they just say "and then here we plug in the leptons of the SM" or "and then here we plug in Einstein's field equations". Just because you can take things and put them together in a basket doesn't mean you're unificating them.'
 
And then he claims that the "follwing sections" will elaborate on this connection between Dirac wavefunctions and his weird operator set, but he never returns to this and instead stumbles on to "general spacetimes" etc.
 
o.o
 
11:35 PM
He defines "wavefunctions" after this that are...operator valued and have no visible connection to the actual wavefunctions he watned to compare them to
 
@ACuriousMind hmm. i don't know. if you were pretty good at it, you probably could do it? I don't know if Solidworks or a CAD program is the best way to do it though - it's for technical modeling.
 
Yeah, I'm done. If this guy has an actual coherent theory he's very abysmal at actually communicating it.
 
that would probably be far beyond me if you wanted it to look any good, though. and then, even if you make the model, you'd have to 3d print it or something, and that decreases the quality/makes it expensive/generally means it's a single color.
 
it's not quite the same, but I've been watching a few of these videos today:
the models you get in this way series are too big to be miniature, but I know i've seen some good examples
 
@heather Well, I didn't think this through. My typical style of planning means that I'd usually have about one day between knowing which mini I need and actually needing it :P
 
11:40 PM
almost done for the week....
 
Which is why I usually don't use minis at all
 
some good warhammer ones here: brothers-brick.com/tag/warhammer
 
yeah, probably not a good option for you then. (at least via me - maybe check out a site like upwork?)
if you have a 3d printer and then outsource your mini and the mini is sufficiently small, it could work.
or if you have a makerspace in your area with a 3d printer.
 
just buy a top of the line 3-d Printer
problem solved
 
Well, I guess I have to do something with my money :P
 
11:42 PM
like rolling in it scrooge mcduck style?
 
lol
 
@enumaris Uh, no, like buying a 3d printer? :P
 
are minis generally multicolored?
 
@ACuriousMind you can do both
 
@bolbteppa ::repeatedly stab PDF link with big scary knife:: arxiv.org/abs/1502.03587 FTFY
 
11:46 PM
well the guy has quite a few publications
at least on arxiv
 
@heather Depends, but I'd be fine with mono-color and hand-painting them after. Huh, I just remebered I still have a set of hand-painted minis at my parents'. Dammit.
 
@dmckee ::pats on shoulder:: Take deep breaths.
 
@ACuriousMind That reminds me that I have know idea what became of mine.
They are gone for sure as my folks closed that house.
::sigh::
 
what games you guys play with em?
 
11:51 PM
@heather Anyway, I'm not sure I'm actually looking for minis :D But I just penned the finale to a years-long RPG campaign and my mind is racing for props/ways to make our next one have higher "production quality" :P
 
warhammer or something like that?
I've never played games with minis...card games were more my thing
 
@bolbteppa The unversioned link always gets the most recent version. You don't want a version indicator unless you really mean v3 and not some later version with the (presumptive) bugs fixed.
 
@enumaris I used to play Blood Bowl with them but in this case I'd be using them for D&D/tabletop RPGs
 
no idea what blood bowl is, but D&D I know
I know of <--- more precise
 
@enumaris Sure Warhammer, but you can also use them in pencil-and-paper roleplaying ALA D&D.
 
11:52 PM
@ACuriousMind that's cool =) i've kinda wanted to get into table top games for a bit but a. i don't have the time and b. i don't really know anyone else who does play them. i tried playing a simple one they recommended over in the rpg chat w/ my mom and about 15 minutes in we were just staring at each other with complete confusion.
::shrugs:: i'll figure it out at some point.
 
@dmckee I only know the names of these games...I know almost nothing about how they work lol
I dusted off my old magic the gathering cards a few days ago
I discovered I don't have enough cards left over to make an actual deck :(
lost too many
 
I know way too much WH40k lore (which i chalk up to way too much TV Tropes)
 
Tom Arnold is married to Roseanne? ...
I know none of the lore
 
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