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2:03 PM
@SirCumference why is that depressing? The point about university is that to some extent you teach yourself. The role of the university is to guide you and to provide help when you get stuck. If you just want to copy down the lecturer's overheads then regurgitate them at the exam Cambridge is not the university for you.
 
Have you ever failed a course?
 
@0celo7 are test functions ideals of the smooth function ring
 
2:19 PM
...or an exam?
 
[] can't seeyou :P:P::P (Hall of Mirrors)
 
"Fix a smooth derivative operator $\nabla_m$. For $g_{ab}$ a smooth metric, its curvature tensor ${R_{abc}}^d$ can be written $${R_{abc}}^d = {\rho_{abc}}^d - 2 {\Gamma^d}_{m[a} {\Gamma^m}_{b]c} - 2 \nabla_{[a} {\Gamma^d}_{b]c}$$ where $${\Gamma^a}_{bc} = \frac 12 g^{am} (2 \nabla_{(b} g_{c)m} - \nabla_m g_{bc})$$ and ${\rho_{abc}}^d$ is the curvature tensor of $\nabla_m$."
What
The hell is this
 
what connection, does not look levi citiva to me
 
Not a clue
 
Looks like a non-Levi-Civita connection with non-partial derivative Christoffels?
 
2:34 PM
I suspect it's supposed to be a generic connection and the second term is supposed to remove all the non-metric part?
I dunno
 
@Slereah test functions form an algebra
 
are they an ideal of smooth function, though
 
yes
 
Good
 
@BalarkaSen what I don't understand is how the coarse equivalence class contains any information
 
2:39 PM
@0celo7 R^2 and R are not coarse equivalent
So it certainly contains some information
More precisely it keeps track of the "end space"
 
since when are you an expert
 
I hang out with a lot of geometric group theorists
 
nerd
 
certainly not an expert
 
how does a high schooler hang out with geometric group theorists
 
2:41 PM
with gusto
 
do they ever haze you
 
@BalarkaSen well tell me why anyone should give a shit about the Milnor-Svarc theorem
 
It give you examples of a LOT of Gromov hyperbolic groups
Any group which acts by isometries cocompactly and properly discontinuously on a negatively curved manifold is Gromov hyperbolic
If $M$ is negatively curved and compact, $\pi_1(M)$ is Gromov hyperbolic
 
I don't care about things just because they have a famous name attached
 
well if you dont care about gromov hyperbolic groups you shouldnt care about Milnor-Svarc theorem
 
2:43 PM
ok, good
::tosses book aside::
time to make some food
 
i need to decide what to do
 
Ah, apparently $\nabla_m$ is indeed not a metric compatible connection
He defines it later on
I think it's not even supposed to be a connection
Just a very general derivative
 
0
Q: How to address high volume of low quality questions?

Cursed I've noticed that there are an awful lot of people who come here, create new accounts to ask their homework questions, get downvoted and closed then leave. Obviously, we have flags, we can attempt to edit and we can vote to show that they ARE not suited for physics SE, but I'm concerned that n...

 
"Let $S$ be a submanifold of dimension $d$ of the $n$-dimensional manifold $M$. Let $\alpha$ be a non-zero tensor distribution which has support on $S$ and is the sum of one distribution arising from a locally integrable tensor field and another the derivative of a distribution arising from a locally square-integrable field. Then $d = n-1$"
 
@JohnRennie Obviously I don't want to regurgitate the information, I want to learn the material. But the cost of university is insane if it's goal is merely to "provide guidance" to information we'll be teaching ourselves anyway.
 
Anonymous
2:55 PM
@SirCumference That is a reasonable argument, considering the cost of education in the US :P
 
hmm... it seems the quantum guys are quite busy, danialsank is not frequently on as in the past. Guess most end up doing software stuff
 
There's a counterargument there somewhere along the lines of, merely reading textbooks cannot communicate the basic scientific "intuitions" that is essential to research in every field of science. But I am not qualified enough to actually pose that as a counterargument.
 
(I want to say the same for emilo, but well, he is on in recent days quite frequently)
Well, some students need the lectures as a guide to get the basics, before they have enough (insert suitable word) to do the self study and research further
and some topics, such as spectroscopy, one will not understood how they really work without actually measuring a spectrum
there's this hands on experience on building intuition
 
Anonymous
@SirCumference Things are quite similar here, like most professors teaching very superficially. But it doesn't matter much as I just pay around 7$ for a 6-month semester. XD
 
apparently this is a theorem to show that a regular metric can only have a distributional curvature concentrated on some hypersurface
thin shell sort of stuff
 
2:59 PM
Another counterargument, at least in the realm of undergrad education, is that self-learning sometimes leads to focusing on only the parts you find interesting
 
@Blue Wait what
 
Anonymous
@BalarkaSen Yeah, of course. Talking to real people doing real research is always better than just reading textbooks.
 
That's a thing?
 
Anonymous
@SirCumference Which?
 
e.g. skipping parts of the book which you don't find interesting, or lingering on parts that aren't actually so important
 
2:59 PM
$7 uni?
 
and to add on semiclassical's, much harder to detect whether you have used a wrong method and wrong understanding that happens to give the correct answer most of the time
 
plus, if you're learning a subject, you're not in the best position to evaluate your own progress
 
Anonymous
@SirCumference Yep. It's actually free if you apply for the scholarship, but I didn't apply for it (many of my classmates did). Basically it's government aided
 
it helps to have someone who really knows it already
well, there's a reason I emphasize the undergrad context
 
haha
 
3:01 PM
lol
 
@Blue Here in the U.S. it's not uncommon to pay $68k/yr...
 
University is not restricted to super geniuses
 
once you get to the grad level you're forced to git gud at self-learning
 
well tbh as a grad student you complement the "intuition-gathering through lectures" with "intuition gathering by attending seminars and workshops"
 
right
plus conversations with your adviser / other faculty / visitors
 
3:03 PM
Honestly I still don't get why universities make professors teach instead of focus on research, even when teaching falls outside of their interests in skillsets. It's especially surprising since most universities care much more about research.
 
yep
basic intuitions are a result of decades of thoughts that goes into a field
its hard to just come up with them on your own
 
@SirCumference Because more teachers = more students taking their courses = more funding
 
Anonymous
@SirCumference Government funding is often proportional to the quality and amount of research produced
 
I mean, research funding from the NSF and so forth is a big deal
but the money the departments get from the university as a result of coursework is a big thing as well
 
and teaching itself is also an important learning experience. I have many peers who have done tutoring and found the experience rewarding
 
3:06 PM
hence why stuff like "how many credits does this course count for" seems arbitrary from a student POV but is absolutely crucial from a department POV
 
that said, nearly all of them agree marking the exams is a chore
 
I'm more talking about lower level coursework, mind
 
I wish in the future the AI will help us take care of the marking
 
higher level coursework is more intrinsically rewarding since the students tend to know wth they're doing
 
The reality is the material is so difficult and there's so many ways of presenting it that you want the best teaching it to get their intuition and side comments and approach to the material, them to simplify it as much as possible and make it seem obvious etc
 
3:08 PM
I should also make the point that there's nothing 'inevitable' about the US configuration of funding, both for faculty and TAs
 
It would be great if all you needed was a 50 minute lecture and it was just the presenters fault if you didn't get it, but...
 
i don't think the current setup is one which is going to remain stable forever
i suspect the bruhaha regarding TA tuition waivers in the tax bill is a portent of things to come
 
Anonymous
From what I've heard the German education system seems to be pretty good to me. It's mostly free, no entrance examinations and yet they produce good quality scientists, engineers, mathematicians, etc.
 
They try to even emphasize the extra work required now, e.g. 1 credit = 20 hours self study etc...
 
...which is not necessarily a bad thing, done right
@blue I sorta disagree insofar as it's not just the German education system as such that's the crucial point
 
3:11 PM
@Blue I'm at a research uni...
 
it's the willingness of the govt to provide enough funding to make that happen
 
Same deal for many people here
 
I wonder if it is a urban legend that germany is the most stable place for academia. I mean you have this fierece competition in the US and China, and then the gov funding cuts in the US in some sciences
 
in the US, by contrast, higher education funding is not something that's taken for granted
(defense spending, by contrast...)
 
Anonymous
@Semiclassical I can agree. If only the US used the taxpayer's money in educating people rather than making more weapons :p
 
3:13 PM
and frequently I read about how the science literacy of the public in the US is low
 
@Blue no argument there
@Secret ehhh, I find that argument a bit suspect
 
ehhhhh.. probably I read too much online articles about the post truth problem in the US...
 
The problem imo isn’t that Americans don’t understand science/math
It’s that there are groups which have a solid economic self-interest in making sure the issues aren’t understood
 
@Semiclassical and many have solid economic self-interest in the opposite
 
3:21 PM
@SirCumference the cost of university is the cost of the salaries of the people who act as your mentors, and the cost of the buildings for them to guide you in. Neither of those come cheap. Universities are not money making machines. Academics don't all drive Ferraris.
 
I hate those old papers that are on two columns but some of the equations take the whole line
it's a bit tough being sure of what they're trying to say
 
@JohnRennie I haven't talk to a professor who thought they were paid for their worth. They all think they're overpaid.
 
they jump from one column to the next
 
Anonymous
@0celo7 "They all think they're overpaid." Is that for real? I've never heard anyone say that
 
Anonymous
lol
 
3:25 PM
@Blue People know where I go to school and whom I associate with, so I won't say more
There are profs making $300,000 here
that's public knowledge
 
My point re: scientific literacy is that it puts all the responsibility on individuals as ‘consumers’ of scientific information
And that just seems naive to me
 
First people in history to claim they are overpaid apparently...
Ridiculous right wing talking point
 
Are you saying I'm lying?
 
the place in the uni system where I've tended to hear more complaints re: excessive salaries is coaches and administration
 
If you're a top scientist you're a very valuable asset to a university. You attract lots of funding and more importantly the best people to come work with you. People like that aren't overpaid - they are paid the market rate.
 
3:30 PM
the former I can understand in the sense that a really good football program does generate a lot of money for the school
the latter is more opaque
 
@Semiclassical the president of my institution makes s o m u c h g r e e n
way too much
 
@Semiclassical everyone underestimates the value of good managers. Someone has to make sure everything runs smoothly, and that's not an easy job.
 
maybe so. part of what's problematic is that I (like most people, i suspect) am really not in a position to judge what an 'appropriate' salary would be
 
what if millions and millions of dollars are going to administration and they're running things questionably
 
and the ones who do decide things are often voting on their own salaries
 
3:33 PM
@EricSilva do you mean like in US universities
I hear they are comically mismanaged
 
@EricSilva then the board of trustees, or whatever the equivalent is at your institution, aren't doing their job properly. They need to fire the underperforming manager and replace them with someone who can do the job.
 
@JohnRennie what if they are doing their job properly by putting lots of money in their pockets
 
That just pushes the point further back, though---who is holding the board of trustees accountable, etc.
 
US education is a huge scam
 
@Semiclassical that applies to any organisation. If it's run badly enough for long enough it will fail.
 
3:35 PM
yes if by "it" you mean America :p
 
idk if that's true, badly run organizations can last a long long time and do a lot of damage
 
From what I hear, the scam is basically
1) have hugely inflated admission price
2) the government subsidize students to enroll at those prices
3) Do your best to attract a lot of students no matter what
4) pocket all those subsidies
then you can spend all that money on important things like FOOTBAAAAALL
 
that's basically milking the students for something er.... (insert questionable adjactive)?
 
greeeeen
 
and of course the students who play in the football teams aren't paid either
so you can pocket that money too
 
3:37 PM
huzzah for student athletes :P
 
I'm quite glad that France isn't as crazy as the US
 
ive heard a lot of people say we're in a higher education bubble
 
oh yeah it's gonna be bad
 
yeah, i buy that
 
Anyone in here able to help me with some astro?
Don't want to post it on Physics SE because It's more of a homework/assignment type problem
 
3:39 PM
astrology?
 
another thing that sucks cause there are a lot of really good schools in the US but they're basically unavailable to higher performing low income students for many reasons
 
Astronomy/ basic astrophysics
 
then ask away
 
@MichaelHarding YES - anything to get away from the discussion of tuition fees :-)
 
@JohnRennie is "overpaid" even a state of being in your mind?
 
3:40 PM
@Slereah flagged for troll /s
 
@JohnRennie seems like if someone decides you're worth 1,000,000 for picking your nose, good on you
am I thought I was the free market guy
 
Here's the question I'm having troubles with...
 
@0celo7 nice work if you can get it
 
@JohnRennie it's taxpayer money, however
 
Le Pétomane (, French pronunciation: ​[lÉ™petɔˈman]) was the stage name of the French flatulist (professional farter) and entertainer Joseph Pujol (June 1, 1857 – 1945). He was famous for his remarkable control of the abdominal muscles, which enabled him to seemingly fart at will. His stage name combines the French verb péter, "to fart" with the -mane, "-maniac" suffix, which translates to "fartomaniac". The profession is also referred to as "flatulist", "farteur", or "fartiste". It is a common misconception that Joseph Pujol actually passed intestinal gas as part of his stage performance. Rather...
 
3:41 PM
well, i think the argument would be that if an institution is willing to do that, then it's probably not going to last long
 
@Slereah lol
 
but I tend to agree with the basic point @0celo7 is making
 
@Slereah wtf
 
@Slereah at many schools (mine included), football is not allowed to use any school funds
 
3:42 PM
Please don't disrespect our national heroes
 
they have separate funding through donors and the NCAA
 
anyway
 
@Semiclassical i think that the problem with that argument is that that just isn't true
 
Is there an integration by part for tensors
 
"His audience included [...] and Sigmund Freud."
 
3:44 PM
@EricSilva well, the argument applies if you make it sufficiently extreme/absurd
 
@BalarkaSen you should be happy, my shelf has some algebra books now
Spanier and Hatcher
I found the perfect books for my monitor
 
at some point it becomes too extreme to be ignored.
 
yeah if you flanderize administrations enough then it's like a dumb truism
 
right
 
@MichaelHarding it's been a while since I did a problem like that, but it seems straightforward enough. Why is it giving you problems?
 
3:45 PM
There's a good Freudian slip involving the sigmoid colon there
 
the relevant point is one of scale
i.e. where does the cross-over from 'small enough to be ignored' to 'too big to ignore' occur
if that scale is sufficiently high, then the point is moot
 
@JohnRennie Well, I'm a bit lost on where to go with it really haha. I have an expression that's (1-A)/4*(Rp/ap)^2, but can't really see how to get to what they want.
 
@Slereah it does show up. i remember examples like that in jackson's E&M
but they're a lot more annoying than the usual examples
 
I'll bet
 
@Semiclassical I think he means something invariant on the manifold
the answer is famously "no", hence why you can't get a conservation law from $\nabla_a T^{ab}=0$
 
3:47 PM
@EricSilva milo yiannopolous thinks university of chicago is one of the best academic places in the US right now
how does that make you feel
 
bad
 
lol
 
why does he think that?
 
i think you knew the answer before you asked
 
there's one for integrals of differential forms
 
3:48 PM
@0celo7 something about pseudo-free pseudo-discourse
 
@EricSilva sounds pretty good to me
 
@0celo7 Geroch seems to imply some form of it
 
it's p bad when all you do is invite people who dont really have anything interesting to say just because they're controversial
 
Because he defines derivatives on tensor distributions
 
like im all about discourse but please actually say something
 
3:49 PM
@BalarkaSen I wonder if that might have something to do with this: divinity.uchicago.edu/sightings/…
 
milo doesnt just crack controversial jokes, he does it purposefully
which makes it worse
 
@EricSilva yeah I was utterly disappointed by the recent Shapiro talk at my school
he turned into a meme machine
that's where the money is rn
 
@Semiclassical she's famously a really good teacher but none of the medievalists respect her because she started making bad arguments and insulting people who were doing serious work in her field for no reason
 
@MichaelHarding shall we jump over the Problem Solving chat room? This one is being swamped by complaints about tuition fees :-)
 
He defines the action of some derivative $D$ on tensor distributions as \begin{equation}
D_\mu {T^{abc...p...}}_{a'b'c'...p...}[\mathfrak {t^{a'b'c'...}}_{abc...}] = - {T^{abc...p...}}_{a'b'c'...p...}[D_\mu \mathfrak {t^{a'b'c'...}}_{abc...}]
\end{equation}
 
3:51 PM
@EricSilva oof
 
@Semiclassical I shall have to read this article
 
in lighter news, there is/was a hostage situation on my campus starting yesterday
(that's a bit of an exaggeration)
 
@Semiclassical a lot of people will reference her as a serious academic for their crazy reactionary positions but the days where she was a serious academic are probably long over precisely because she became a crazy reactionary
 
@Slereah yes, see also the book by Friedlander or Hormander
 
3:52 PM
4 hours on a minus sign :(
That was actually fine
 
I did get Friedlander for Christmas
 
@Slereah let me get you a page
 
Well no hurry
Still at work
 
well, all of Ch. 2
 
Still an hour or so until I'm home
 
3:53 PM
it's actually quite good
 
@MichaelHarding hello?
 
The GR book advances slowly
Work doesn't help mucho
 

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