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3:00 PM
is facebook down?
now?
 
semiclassical stability :P
 
i heard new, news, that korean hackers behind it
lol
 
college humor turned into a bunch of normies
 
Anonymous
@Semiclassical Are you counter-trolling the troll with serious replies? :P
 
Anonymous
3:04 PM
That's a good strategy
 
Am I? I didn't actually know.
 
@Semiclassical go to - www.facebook.com I mean not the server, but the site is actually down
 
again, no
it's up fine for me.
 
I don't see login screen, it says that there's an error and the facebook people are trying hard to fix that
 
@Blue I did straight-face troll someone the other day, though I don't think I did it very well
 
3:05 PM
why?
 
How would I know?
 
"Four is the dimension of the oriented Riemannian manifolds for which we can think of gwistor space. Yes, gwistor space."
What is a gwistor space
 
3 hours ago, by Secret
because it is clear he selectively ignore my questions in some uncomputable way
 
@Semiclassical imgur.com/CdxwZZp
i get this screen
everytime i go to facebook homepage
 
3:08 PM
Okay.
That is, once more, something I have no insight on.
 
o wait, wrong, that one is dealt with
(though need 1 booster)
 
how many of people here are Phd?
 
Ok fine, I misjudged, Slereah, you are innocent for now
Balarka:
Lockdown Trio members:
Slereah (Leader)
Balarka Sen (partially decoupled via math chat)
0celo
 
I have no idea what you're on about.
 
3:12 PM
what the heck did I do now
 
All have Pr(spontaneous response) > 0.7 when alone or in pairs
But Pr(spontaneous response) < 0.5 when the trio is formed
Sign of the formation of the Trio: Whenever the chat suddenly filled with differential analysis and manifold discussions, all other users will have no response from them
hence Lockdown Trio
 
Anonymous
...
 
tripartite exclusion process
 
indeed indeed
Slereah's spontaneous probability is particularly erractic because there are times he will miss half of the posts on the screen and at times he respond them 100%
hence:
Jan 17 at 13:55, by Secret
Slereah's response probability is still erratic
Jan 17 at 13:55, by Secret
More observation needed to devise next action
all of this is the actual content of that "anime" that balarka is talking about
(and that is what are those incomprehensible italics occassionally in the math chat in these last few days)
In other words, what Balakra thought to be "an amazing anime" is an elaborate rant
a rant on the frustration I never being able to capture the correct moment when people will respond most readily
 
3:36 PM
Anyway... to wrap this all up:
12
Q: Can unprovability unprovable? Is there an $\omega$-fold unprovability?

Sunghyuk ParkI was just thinking about unprovability. I just wanted to know if it is possible to make a concrete boundary between provable problems and unprovable problems in a certain axiomatic system. We know that there is a statement that is true yet unprovable. Then is it possible that a statement is tr...

 
facebook's up again! XD XD!
 
There is actually a positive answer to the above seemly nonsensical debate (the dynamics are nonsensical enough for me to blow up part of the h bar as shown above)
HOWEVER
It has nothing to say that maths is illusion
period
 
4:04 PM
@BalarkaSen Gonna go to a 'topology seminar' talk today...titled "Quantum Deformation Theory"
I have no idea how much of it I'll follow
if this is the same talk, not much : www4.ncsu.edu/~lada/CBMS/abstracts/Voronov.pdf
...maybe I won't bother
 
Tomorrow I have exam, but, I don't care, because a single sheet of paper can't decide my future ;)
 
@AbhasKumarSinha you are so worry-free. I usually would study today if there is an exam tomorrow even I never studied about that subject on usual days.
 
4:20 PM
@CaptainBohemian it's good to be worry-free
it's of no use to study something which you think is meaningless to you
until you think it has something good for you.
 
@Slereah whatcha reading?
 
chat session is eerie silent
 
vzn
@Secret it doesnt help that the founder DZ wants to discontinue it :( physics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/9905/…
 
I would rather they keep a schedule. If there is one thing about humanity, they need some kind of obligation to keep moving, otherwise the motivation will fade with time
 
vzn
@Secret lol yeah reminds me of the saying "herding cats"
 
So.. basically, h bar will soon be 'dead'
 
vzn
4:51 PM
@Secret it will never die, long live 0celo7... at times nearly singlehandedly sustaining it (even in the case of sometimes strong/ fierce "resistance")
 
well thats true, though 0celo's contribution to the activity is no longer as significant as the activity basically averaged out among many users
h bar is becoming less weird, though, kaumudi is not on as often, there had been increase in CS discussion (but even then, bernardo is not on often)
Even Acuriousmind is not as on as frequently as he switched to the software career
 
vzn
@TerryBollinger hi, still into AI? :) am dabbling in it heavily last few wks, fyi am aggressively selling promoting announcing my new AGI theory vzn1.wordpress.com/2018/01/04/…
 
We haven't had much of an agenda for these sessions for a while, and we don't get as many regulars there on time as we used to, but the room is otherwise pretty lively - I see no danger of it dying, it's in fact much more active than when I joined
 
Dz out? No leader, no chat really...
Who is leading?
 
vzn
4:55 PM
@Secret yeah think even DZ is now into software engr afaik/ afact
 
@Secret dude, I simply have stuff to do all day now, it would be similar if I had stayed in physics.
 
we've got lives
 
I understood, just felt very... hollow
 
Not a student with a lot of time to spend here during the day anymore
 
(thought tbh even I will get busy very soon, this year the PhD will pick up pace very quickly)
 
4:56 PM
And I'm trying to finish my PhD now, so I just shouldn't be here
 
Ok, ok. Let's chat :-)
 
A lot of times I get on, I often see differential analysis (manifolds, tangent bundles etc.) discussions, and slereah's inconsistent response pattern makes it seems ... off
 
Hmm. Later all...
 
vzn
@Secret feel like chat has so much possibliity, largely underutilized. think there is a "incentive problem"... lately am dinking around with agi.mit.edu that has a very lively slack channel...
 
skullpatrol is also not on as often, and there are a lot of regulars are less frequent
actually, even you ,vzn is not on as before, I missed the days when you ACM and Emilo etc. talked about stuff
as for 0celo, (at least at periods when I am active), he is slightly less on then before
but anyway...
 
5:00 PM
We need stats!
 
@TerryBollinger I feel that's a mischaracterization - these sessions used to be completely unstructured, then when regular chat picked up, DZ started the agenda thing in an attempt to distinguish them from regular chatting. But really, the original goal of the sessions, that is to get people chatting in the room at all, has long been fulfilled
I remember the days when I joined it was largely just two regulars (now not so regular :P) talking about astro coding :P
 
vzn
@Secret the "bar" analogy is quite valid!
 
Now we got a much larger variety of regulars and topics, some of course more frequent than others, so I think all this pessimism is largely unwarranted
 
@ACuriousMind fried spinach is good. Debate me
 
Hmm... I guess its really the curse of my timezone then, not enough aussies
 
vzn
5:07 PM
@skullpatrol stats on what? it does seem like SE chat doesnt draw in much traffic across many rooms, active rooms seem exceptional
 
@0celo7 I can't, never had it fried
 
Any statistics would be nice.
 
I really mean sautéed
 
vzn
@0celo7 spinach is a metaphor for stuff thats good for you but doesnt taste that great
 
I thought that was brocollis
or brussel sprouts
 
5:10 PM
spinach tastes good
 
vzn
they are all part of the yucky family :P
 
Spinach is very good
I am convinced it’s a filter for civilization
Only a barbarian could dislike it
 
vzn
popeye likes it but suspect it was really a big propaganda ploy o_O
 
Spinach tastes great. It's the texture that's the problem. Green slime is great in Alien movies but less good on your plate.
 
@Semiclassical if it's any comfort, I spent way more time in this chatroom than I should've and I still got a PhD
 
5:12 PM
Who do we have on the radar for "Ask me anything" @vzn?
 
@JohnRennie if you cook it for 5 minutes, sure.
 
i feel like if you have slimey spinach something went horribly wrong
 
vzn
@skullpatrol thx for asking, lots of inquiries/ "maybes" out but it seems to take a lot of persuasion/ handholding and/ or peer pressure to get ppl to commit... also not much interest by other regulars :|
 
@JohnRennie You don't actually have to cook it into an unrecognizable slime (which is, as you say, among the nastiest things you might find on your plate).
 
Get fresh spinach and cook for at most a couple minutes
 
5:14 PM
Sep 5 '16 at 22:36, by DanielSank
You need to get the hell off this chat right now.
 
speaking of a AMA like idea, some long time ago, I was trying to do this in another SE chat, but there is not enough thoughts and other things thus it is stalled for now
0
Q: Event suggestion: A history of mathematics and future direction panel discussion?

SecretSo recently, I was pondering about historical connections of subjects, such as how concepts, ideas and experiments done in history change the course of humanity as they open new doors to exploration and technologies. Having been to many panel discussions that covered topics from quantum computin...

 
vzn
19 mins ago, by Semiclassical
we've got lives
@Secret the math room is very busy, suggest try recruiting regular(s) from there... most of the physics sessions ended up being regulars, almost everyone
 
@0celo7 hot take: eat fresh spinach raw
on its own
 
@EricSilva on its own?
I put it on bread products with meat and other things
 
sometimes ill just eat some raw spinach out of a bag
 
vzn
5:17 PM
@EricSilva are you new to hbar?
 
Anyway, its 4:17 I had to sleep. I always miss the time when h bar is most active
 
Called a “sand witch”
 
if im out of sandwich materials
@vzn ya
 
Ok that’s when you drive to the store
 
vzn
@EricSilva welcome, introduce yourself if you like :)
 
5:17 PM
cya @Secret
 
im a math student who wants to learn some physics (and has spent way too long not knowing any)
 
Welcome
 
vzn
@EricSilva cool, what country? university? what areas of math/ physics do you want to get into?
 
i go to uchicago, i like diff geo/geometric analysis and ive started taking the baby physics courses here, i just want to have a working knowledge of things so im not blind when people start talking about physics things (which happen to come up frequently in the math i like)
 
@ACuriousMind I'm not talking draconisn, just
 
vzn
5:21 PM
@EricSilva yeah some big math physicists in here. "it goes both ways"
 
Literally someone saying chat is open any good topics? And then saying at the End chat is over
 
vzn
@Secret thx for dropping by bummer this is so far out of your timezone :|
 
@EricSilva do you know the construction of Green’s functions for the Laplacian on complete manifolds?
 
i have not seen the construction no
 
Ok. It was done by people who are notoriously sloppy
 
5:23 PM
How do you like Purcell so far @EricSilva?
 
I kinda fucked up and am giving a presentation on stuff I don’t actually believe right now...
 
@0celo7 RIP
@skullpatrol i like the subject matter but i dont think i like purcell just because the page layout makes my eyes kind of go numb
 
lol
 
vzn
@0celo7 lol, a mathematical (non?)platonist eh?
 
i dont like text being on one side of the page
 
5:25 PM
@0celo7 Axiom of choice?
 
@EmilioPisanty Did you actually listen to Daniel? :P
 
@0celo7 where are you studying it from
 
@ACuriousMind transcript doesn't lie
I left the room at the time
 
For how long?
 
@TerryBollinger Well, but chat is open to good topics all the time :)
 
5:30 PM
@skullpatrol apparently a couple of days
I was still on main though
 
In the unstructured days (~2 years ago) usually just someone of the regulars said "Hey, it's a chat session!" and then people just continued to talk
 
Manifold gluing is a bit hard to find detailed information on
It's like a lot of little theorems here and there
 
You should come around more often @TerryBollinger :-)
 
Also it doesn't seem to mean the same thing across all papers
Sometimes it's the gluing of boundaries, sometimes it's the gluing of regions of the manifold
though I think it's pretty much the same thing
$M_1 \cup_f M_2$ in both cases
Just different domains for $f$
 
Anonymous
I used to like the "Ask Me Anything" sessions, but we lack enough people to continue that anymore it seems.
 
5:33 PM
Where is @BalarkaSen?
 
He's usually more here in the morning
 
im here
 
@Slereah There's no "morning" on the internet :P
 
No you're not, @BalarkaSen
Didn't you read what I said
 
5:34 PM
Eternal September
 
M Night Shyamalan plot
 
I used to go to a forum that had the eternal september
 
@ACuriousMind yeah this chat uses 0celo7's timezone does it not?
 
So the date was like september the 5315th, 1990
 
That's 28 years ago!
 
5:36 PM
Not quite that old :p
Only 28
 
vzn
@Blue glad you liked em, have probably enough ppl now, just need a speaker volunteer. :)
 
@Slereah That would be sometime in 2004 by my calculations
 
@ACuriousMind yeah
In the OLDEN DAYS
When the internet was better
Dad gummit
 
Where by "better" you mean "excruciatingly slow" :P
 
that too
 
5:38 PM
still not infested by 12 year olds
 
Although by 2004, at least we had "high speed" internet
I remember dial up
that shit was slow
 
Does dial-up still exist?
 
@Slereah beep boop beep boop beeeeeeep
 
you can still use dial up, yes
 
Anonymous
@vzn I'd personally like some people like QMech, RVance, josh, Farcher, Ben Crowell etc to volunteer. They write very helpful answers.
 
5:39 PM
@skullpatrol juno.com still offers dial up
 
Anonymous
But QMech is too shady for that
 
Anonymous
:P
 
Example of using a dial up
In modern days
 
@Blue I don't think 'shady' is the word you wanted to use there ;P
 
5:40 PM
cool
 
vzn
@Blue ok. cool/ great idea. its possible to invite ppl in here if theyve visited chat once but basically my strategy has always been to invite ppl who chat at least once. there are a lot of very high rep users on the site that never visit chat (a pity). but that is not unique to physics, its a SE wide phenomenon.
 
Anonymous
@ACuriousMind I'm out of words! But QMech is surely shady in the sense that we still don't know his AI status XD
 
@vzn I think that's a sign SE's design is working - SE's appeal is the very explicit focus on Q&A without any distractions that traditional forums have, and these users are doing precisely that. Chat is a third place and was never really meant to be used by the majority of users
 
vzn
@Blue lol there is precedent, we have done several chat sessions pseudonymously, very flexible on that, dont feel it shouid be dealbreaker, some users do not wish to share much personal details for whatever personal reasons
 
@Blue I think you mean 'secretive'. 'shady' has a rather negative connotation
 
5:43 PM
@ACuriousMind appropriate then
 
Anonymous
Ah, secretive is better. :P
 
A shady guy is someone you wouldn't buy anything from. I'll buy mathy physics answers from Qmechanic every time :)
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind agreed that is an SE design criteria, chat has even been called a ghetto at times, but dont think that its an ideal situation. again think chat has huge potential, and this can be seen in eg new platforms like Slack or gitter that are very high use/ traffic... also SE mgt regularly uses chat for some critical functions such as elections/ "town hall" mtgs etc...
 
@ACuriousMind ok dude ur not our parents
 
@vzn Sure, chat has potential - but not for what SE is focused on. Chat doesn't directly improve Q&A, it doesn't draw traffic, it doesn't directly generate great content visitors want to see
 
5:46 PM
@Blue enigmatic perhaps?
 
inscrutable
2
 
ineffable
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind SE is largely managed by its users. SE is all about giving some freedom to those users how to manage it. "SE/ chat is what you make it"™ ... DZ mod spent years building up traffic in this room & current chat engagement seems somewhat related to those historic efforts...
 
@ACuriousMind He's a god?
 
he is
 
5:47 PM
A minor deity possibly :-)
 
Anonymous
@Slereah I can agree
 
qmechanic has never asked a question before
because he knows the answer to every question :'(
 
He apparently never asked any question on any SE site
 
Canonical physics.meta post about experts asking few questions.
@EmilioPisanty is one of the few high-rep users who makes an outstanding effort to ask very good questions.
 
To be honest I ask a lot of questions and I can almost never get an answer to them
 
5:51 PM
@EricSilva peter li’s book
 
@ACuriousMind i like how that dude collectively refers to himself as an expert too. good to know that astronomy grads with physics background = the same level as R1 theoretical physicist / mathematician
what a snob
 
I can understand not asking questions
 
Anonymous
@JohnRennie That's a nice word you reminded me. This is why I have an affection for aged Englishmen with big fat vocabularies. ;)
 
Anyone here on mobile, Android? Have you seen the sudden change in top bar and outlook of mobile site? Mother meta is flooded with bug complaints!
 
@loocsieulb You can certainly be an expert without being at the very top of your field. I don't see anything snobby about it, and I don't think the equivocation you claim is implied.
 
5:54 PM
@Blue TIL JR is cheese
 
@0celo7 ah i see, maybe aubin's book has a more complete treatment? i think it should almost definitely be in his book on nonlinear problems in riemannian geo or w.e. it's called
 
@loocsieulb no, I just smell that way
 
vzn
@Blue lol @ physicists coming up with synonyms for mysterious... atypical ... reminds me of einsteins spooky...
 
@vzn out of this world
 
@JohnRennie You must have a very odd effect on cheese aficionados, then :P
 
5:58 PM
@ACuriousMind I stay away from anyone armed with a box of crackers
 
@EricSilva it is missing some major details.
 
classic tbh
i feel this way about colding minicozzi (im using rn for a course)
 
@EricSilva we have chosen the shittiest field in terms of documentation
I’m actually trying to understand something else with similar techniques, which they call “standard”
 
R I P
 
@ACuriousMind i mean it's using the wide range of the word expert to include oneself which is alright but still. kinda like how a lab technician is a scientist the same way feynman was a scientist. so they could say "scientists like myself and feynman" or they could just leave themselves out of it and address their point without bringing themselves to that level when it doesn't really help their point.
 
6:00 PM
@0celo7 ahahahaha, don't trick yourself into believing that's exceptional :P
You get mathematicians not explaining "standard" lore, you get numerical physicists having large code bases without a single comment, you get experimentalists not describing their setup in enough detail to reproduce them...documentation is usually lacking everywhere :P
 
Physics is actually one of the best field for documentation
Physics and math
did you ever try to find papers for humanities topics?
There's no arxiv for the humanities
 
@Slereah Why would I? I'm not a human humanities student.
 
History is interesting!
One thing about history, btw
Datation is very hard
Because there's many different chronologies, especially for very old events
 
and most papers don't specify which one they use
@vzn You'll have to take it from my cold dead hands!
 
vzn
6:05 PM
@Slereah lol what, your hatred? :P
 
yes
Nothing unites the STEM like hating on the humanities
It's like when you're talking to foreigners
and you can unite on the topic of mocking the United States
 
vzn
@Slereah have you ever heard of "the two cultures" by CP Snowe? it is an old "rivalry"
 
Death to America!
 
hey let's take that out of context and ban slereah for a week
 
Reason : Terrorism
 
6:07 PM
@ACuriousMind geometry is particularly bad though
 
@0celo7 I'd be willing to bet you'd say something similar about any other topic you studied in similar depth
 
@Slereah is in STEM and likes humanities
 
@Slereah you're a wizard
teach me how to slide like that
 
Magic.
You know what I like to see in all topics, though
Joke papers
Those are great
There's a famous paper in the humanities
Some anthropology on the Nacirema tribe
(It's American backward)
Which is just anthropology for the US except done in a tribe style
 
vzn
← finds Polly Nomial unforgettable, but fears new harsh PC crackdown o_O
@Slereah reminds me of HS social studies teacher had similar paper on deadly "racs"
 
6:23 PM
@Slereah have you read papers in psychology?
 
I have read some
 
@ACuriousMind I doubt it
Many other fields seem to have better collections of monographs and the like
 
Have you ever read theology?
They all just assume God exists!
Try tracking down a proof of this!
 
Can you be a theologian if God/gods doesn't/don't exist?
Wouldn't that make you simply a fantasist?
 
6:31 PM
“Mentally ill” is the PC term
 
6:51 PM
I think mentally ill isn't PC anymore
 
7:12 PM
@Slereah alternately mentally abled
 
People who make PC terms never remember the golden rule
Never make the word longer than 3 syllables
1 or 2 syllables, ideally
if it's longer nobody will use it
 
7:32 PM
@vzn though, in 'the two cultures' he talks more about the humanities holding the sciences in contempt than the other way around
e.g. knowing Shakespeare vs. knowing the second law of thermodynamics
 
8:13 PM
@Semiclassical My very unscientific feeling is that the techies not appreciating the humanities is something that was rarer in the past and has become much more common since—to pick a date—the onset of Endless September.
I also have a unscientific feeling that they very smartest kids in my classes are still widely read and accomplished.
 
8:25 PM
Oh, sure, I’m just saying that “the two cultures” isn’t necessarily the best source there
I’d also distinguish between ‘techies’/engineers vs scientists but I think that’s a bit different kettle of fish
 
plus scientists disdain engineers, as well
 
9:04 PM
@0celo7 is there a fast easy way to do 6.1.13 of Zee's Gravity
 
9:19 PM
know what's bogus?
Birkhoff theorem
as stated in most books
Obviously poorly stated since the main example is Schwarzschild
which isn't static, since on the inside solution the killing vector is spacelike
 
@bolbteppa what is it?
I’m not home
 
vzn
@Semiclassical it was written in 1959! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures ie over ½ century old
 
Finding the Christoffels, Curvature, Curvature scalar of a conformal metric $\Omega^2 g_{\mu \nu}$, he just gives some huge formulas as if it should be obvious without too much work, they are pretty big
 
@bolbteppa Wald Appendix D has the shortest proofs. They’re still awful
 
9:42 PM
He actually uses the huge scalar in the KK chapter, can't ignore it, but you can actually get the end result a different way which still leads to huge computations apparently :\
 
10:08 PM
Fantastic, Young-Tableaux in Kaluza-Klein, my ******* god...
 
11:00 PM
@JohnRennie yes/no
I think it depends on how you interpret the word "exist."
 
11:15 PM
@Danu I just wanted to thank u for ur answer for this question:
https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/247197/68030
 
11:29 PM
@vzn huh, I’d assumed it was older than that
 
How old did you think it was?
 
11:53 PM
@ACuriousMind @loocsieulb I'm mighty impressed with @BenCrowell's latest questions
 

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