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00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

00:07
@Semiclassical "The Lagrangian $L$ is a section of $\pi^*_{\mathcal C\times_M \mathcal V,M}\Lambda_n M$"
::closes book::
time to do something else
00:18
...yeah, i'm with you
how'd your fluids midterm go?
swimmingly? :)
@Semiclassical very easy
find integral curves of a flow, compute a contour integral, check the CR equations for an analytic flow, and show a certain L^2 norm is conserved along the flow
yeah, that seems simple enough
@Semiclassical there was a time when I liked bundles, but how I just really want to know on what space my thing lives and what space it maps into
physicists have the right idea there
 
2 hours later…
rob
rob
02:29
@EmilioPisanty Yes, you post a link to the comment in chat and then other people also vote on it.
Also: d'awww, shucks
 
1 hour later…
03:34
7
A: In Search of a Soulmate

ZgarbHusk, 4 bytes εṠ-u Try it online! Explanation εṠ-u Implicit input. u Unique elements. Ṡ- Delete them from input, counting multiplicities. ε Is the result a singleton list?

@BernardoMeurer explain
what the heck is this language
@Semiclassical i was reading the Bernoulli eqn wiki and found something interesting
if lift was due to the bernoulii principle, then blowing on the bottom of a piece of paper should make it go down
03:59
@0celo7 Don't go on PCG
It will scar you
@BernardoMeurer I just got an email from you
why to that address?
@ACuriousMind The essay is under review on GDrive, hit me an email from the address you'd like it shared with :)
how do you even have it
I typed Ryan on my google docs share thing and that one showed up
@JohnRennie Morning John
:)
I don't think that one is connected to google...
04:01
Morning :-)
@JohnRennie I wrote a bombass essay on DRM and Intellectual Property
Hmm, if a pipe flow empties into a chamber, am I supposed to assume that the velocity is zero
@BernardoMeurer the one quoting from the bill of rights, or whatever the document was?
@JohnRennie Ah, that was just a meme for one quoting exercise
This is a real essay
I can share the GDoc with you, what email?
Done
Feel free to comment as you please
@BernardoMeurer A colleague asked me to read a paper of his. I'm tempted to point out the typographical faux-pas (plural?)
04:10
Pointing out typographical errors is helpful IMHO
like he writes $Cl(\Omega)$ for the closure
like why not $\mathrm{cl}(\Omega)$
I've grabbed a copy as a PDF. I'll have a read once I've checked my servers are all alive and well. It's Windows update week so things are a little tense.
windows is the greatest OS
name one better
@JohnRennie Thanks! Let me know your thoughts :)
04:15
@EmilioPisanty It's odd that it took so long, but the update can sometimes be very slow. Oh well, it's working now :-)
@JohnRennie Is Windows update why my PC had to be SW reset when I came home?
it was completely unresponsive
did I break it?
@0celo7 Bernardo isn't going to agree, but Windows has a basically nice architecture. The fact you can run a full Ubuntu system, downloaded from the Ubuntu servers, without a VM or docker demonstrates this.
Ubuntu is awful
3
it can't even connect to the internet
But MS have to sell to the general public and they like everything to be pretty, so MS have loaded down what is a basically nice kernel with a shit ton of dross.
@JohnRennie I put that credit more in Open Source software than in Windows. If Ubuntu was closed source that couldn't happen well
Ubuntu is awful
3
Look at Linux+Wine for example of attempting to reverse a closed API
04:19
Right, but the thing about running Ubuntu on Windows is that it isn't an emulator. Windows has supported OS subsystems since day one (in 1994 I think) and the Ubuntu apps are running ina subsystem not an emulation.
Day 1?
Wine isn't emulation either
Windows was only around since '94?
It's a reimplementation of the API
(AFAIK, maybe I'm wrong)
The subsystem could easily be extended to support any of the distros, but Ubuntu is the biggest so market forces dictate it's done first.
04:20
@BernardoMeurer is a commie
he doesn't believe in the market
I just wrote an essay defending Lockean property rights
How on earth can I be a communist
a mild commie then
Your logic is beyond me
@BernardoMeurer are you coming to VA for thanksgiving?
@0celo7 I thought it was going to be in H-TX?
04:27
Did Michelle say that?
Nope
She doesn't say anything
She's busy
I asked Kat a bit ago and she said it hadn't been decided yet
She uses that as a cover to avoid familial contact
Kat is going to VA
that's been known for months
She just told me to find out where you're going
You can come to VA, now how you get there is an issue
Alrighty then
When's thanksgiving, I'll check planez
google
last thursday of Nov
or is it the fourth Thurs?
Unless Michelle wants to drive to VA lol
04:30
idk, I'm not American
*Ron is forced to drive to VA
23rd of November
@0celo7 Lol
To I fly to DC or to where?
Dulles
$500
No way
@JohnRennie it's pronounced Yea btw
rob
rob
05:28
@0celo7 It's the fourth Thursday. One year I had a calendar that used the wrong "last Thursday" rule, and I planned for Thanksgiving on the fifth Thursday. That was a very expensive calendar.
Lol
@rob Will you drive me to VA?
rob
rob
@BernardoMeurer From where?
California
rob
rob
Both of those places are kind of out of my way
I promise not to ramble about POSIX on the car
rob
rob
05:32
@BernardoMeurer That's standard
Or to complain about the usage of alloca()
rob
rob
man alloca
oooh, garbage collection
::begins complaining::
rob
rob
free(complaint)
See, when you're serious you don't rely on garbage collection
rob
rob
05:37
I get garbage collection on Tuesdays. It's quite reliable.
(Next week it's Wednesday due to the holiday.)
What holiday?
I'm not sure when I get garbage collection here tbh
I should, my house stinks of garbage
That page has no holidays on next week?
alloca is fine as long as you don't try and allocate huge chunks of memory. It's no different to declaring a local array.
rob
rob
@BernardoMeurer Oh, you're right. Columbus day was this week.
My university is off Monday and Tuesday. I got confused.
05:40
I didn't get this holiday! Not fair!
@JohnRennie Why not just declare a local array at that point?
@rob If I apply to your university and get in will you wine me and dine me?
rob
rob
@BernardoMeurer We don't wine and dine the undergraduates --- usually not legal.
@rob Will you Mountain Dew me and dine me then?
rob
rob
But if you showed up here I'd totally take you out to dinner.
How far are you?
I'm kind of hungry right now
rob
rob
I'm far out, man.
05:44
Are you at least of this coast?
rob
rob
@BernardoMeurer I'm a long way from California.
Hmmm
Okay, maybe I need to buy dinner tonight then
@BernardoMeurer you might want to dynamically declare structs or objects and you might not know how many you want. Honestly, I don't see the problem.
@JohnRennie ::begins complaining::
I guess the trouble is that there's no way to be sure alloca won't overflow the stack and crash your app since it doesn't return void on an allocation failure, but the same is true of using recurson.
user84215
05:51
Why are there only three possible curvature tensors with constant curvature?
06:04
@JohnRennie You can easily limit recursion depth
@BernardoMeurer but you don't know how much stack free space is left, so you never know when to limit recursion.
@JohnRennie That is true, but usually you can use a heuristic such as "if we're recurring 10 million times then something is wrong and we should halt"
Sure, sometimes that's not possible and then may god's love be with you
And the same is true of alloca. You can use a heuristic like don't use alloca to allocate a 1GB array.
@JohnRennie Yes, but a beginner sees alloca as ez_malloc() and uses it as such
Which is no gouda
I also don't see why alloca() is needed
Just use m/calloc and free
Since when has C been a warm cuddly environment for beginners? :-)
06:08
Since never, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't hate on things. What else would you have me spend my time doing??
Hugging trees? :-)
(red black trees of course)
Bah! I'm no tree hugger!
The grinch is alive and well and writing documents about DRM!
Hahahahaha
06:52
@JohnRennie Have you got about 300GB to spare for a couple days?
@BernardoMeurer My internet connection isn't fast enough to be shuttling 300GB to and fro. Sorry.
Dangit
Thanks anyway :)
I need to change the filesystem on my backup drive
You take an awfully long time to conclude that DRM is bad because (a) it doesn't have a copyright expiry date and (b) it doesn't allow fair use ...
Well, the important point is to show that it's anti-copyright
That's what takes forever
Those are just examples of how it is anti-copyright
But explaining why not allowing fair-use is a bad thing, or why public domain is rightful is complicated
When something goes out of copyright that doesn't mean I have a right to copy it, it just means the author cannot stop me copying it. Likewise fair use.
07:05
How is the author not having a right to stop you from copying different than you having the right of copying?
You only have a right if someone else has an obligation to you to enforce that right.
Things with expired copyrights fall under the public domain, at which point they are "common to the public", and everyone has rights of usage on them
But suppose the author buys up all copies and shreds them
The government has the obligation to enforce the access of the public to the common to allow the community to thrive
It's pretty much the only reason government exists IMHO
No-one has the obligation to force the author to share their (out of copyright) work.
07:07
But he is not doing that on claims of being the author. He's just a madman burning books
@BernardoMeurer morally possibly - legally not.
Yes, legally not, and that's part of the problem; that we establish property in a Lockean sense and yet we don't enforce it as such throughout
I'm not saying I approve of or support the current state of affairs, but that's the way it is. We have no right to copy material that is out of copyright.
And neither do we have any right to fair use.
According to Lockean property rights we do
Legally speaking that is.
07:10
Yes, fair use is just a doctrine
That was more of an example of DRM, something an individual makes, trumping the interpretation of legality of the legislature which ought not to happen IMHO
@rob ah, see? It worked!
@EmilioPisanty If you want to review the paper too I can share it with you :P
I'm kind of proud because I like my points and that never happens
@BernardoMeurer what paper?
I'm writing about DRM and intellectual property rights
Knowing me you can infer I'm writing against DRM I suppose
@BernardoMeurer I'm happy to have a look but I can't promise I'll have too much time for it
07:16
@EmilioPisanty it's only 7 pages and a quick read
@EmilioPisanty What email should I share the Google docs with?
@JohnRennie what?
@BernardoMeurer icfo email
Dead easy to find
Coolio
@EmilioPisanty Sent :)
@EmilioPisanty suppose I publish a book, then the day before it's out of copyright I buy back all the existing copies and shred them. You have no legal right to demand me to supply you with the contents of the book.
If you can find a copy of the book I can no longer stop you copying it, but no-one has any obligation to make me share the book with you.
@JohnRennie I guess it's an issue of precise wording
07:22
It's a misuse of the word right
We don't have a right to copies of material that's out of copyright
We do have a right to copy material that is out of copyright
@JohnRennie also, that kinda depends on whether the country the work was published has a copyright-library system that makes it compulsory, in principle, to deposit copies of every copyrighted work
If this is the UK and the author did not dodge their legal obligations, I can just walk up to the British Library and ask for a copy
(they will take ages because the main hq is in London but the bulk of the archives are in Yorkshire, which totally makes sense, but still)
This was in the context of Bernardo's assay where he makes the point that unless DRM has an expiry date built in it will continue to prevent copying after the copyright has expired.
@JohnRennie ah, yeah, that is a trickier matter
I need to think about that more carefully
I'm not disagreeing that DRM is bad (though IMHO useless would be a better description :-) but I'm not sure Bernardo's argument is valid.
Well, here's a related question
Is it illegal to circumvent DRM that's attempting to enforce an out of date copyright?
07:31
You'd have to ask a lawyer, though I would have guessed not. That is, there is no obligation on anyone to prevent you copying the contents of DRM protected material that is out of copyright.
Anyhow, I have to go check my servers now ...
@JohnRennie "assay"? Are you trying to be derogatory? :P
Oops! Sorry.
@EmilioPisanty According to DMCA yes
@EmilioPisanty Precisely
08:27
YES
I finally got an answer to an absurdly hard problem
I only had to work until 4:30am to do it...
09:00
If I am not mistaken, a zero charge boundary condition is quite different from a V = 0 boundary condition (in electrostatics) is it not?
One is no electric fields and the other is grounded?
 
1 hour later…
10:07
@MathematicsAminPhysics ahem
user84215
@JohnRennie You do not like it. Right?
@MathematicsAminPhysics as @ACuriousMind said last time, you should make it clear in the post that this is not an event associated with this room. And you need to put that in the post so that when the post is starred the disclaimer appears on the star board as well.
user84215
@JohnRennie I think nobody will star it. If it may be starred, you can remove stars.
I was asking you politely. If you wish to remain a member of the room please take note of the wishes of the room owners.
user84215
The following workshop will be held in the Physics Workshops room (It has nothing to do with the h Bar room): Covariant Electrodynamics in Different Dimensions, at 9:30 GMT on Sunday, October 15, 2017
10:19
2 messages moved to trash
Thanks.
10:50
0
Q: Approved/OK form of cross posting

DanielCLet us say I have (and I have!) a very technical question related to the (proper) mathematical formulation of physical theories. Should I ask it in one section only (let's say mathematics) and wait for a good/thorough answer there, or should I cross-post it in the physics section, knowing that th...

 
1 hour later…
11:55
Is there a QFT model of electric conduction
@Slereah I think a fermion gas models the average conductor pretty well, no?
Not if you want the band structure!
Though really would it be much harder?
Just replace the Pauli equation with the Dirac equation
Put some potentials
Ah, apparently there's model for it in graphener
Let's see
12:28
So I got an answer from that astronautics paper about the missing issues on their site
no electronics version, apparently!
Very sad
they sent me the index, though
I'll ask if I can buy a paper version
It's a very generic journal on astronautics so there's quite a few fun papers
a bunch of stuff about SOVIET SPACECRAFTS
@ACuriousMind how do I compute the vertical part of a vector field using only a covariant derivative?
12:50
@0celo7 Well, the covariant derivative gives you a connection form, and that is equivalent to an Ehresmann connection in the form of a horizontal subbundles, so in principle you should be able to compute the horizontal (and therefore the vertical) projector from it, but it's not a computation I'd want to actually carry out :P
@ACuriousMind Yeah I know it's possible in principle but the result Christodoulou gets seems suspiciously simple
IIRC the covariant derivative is the exterior derivative of the horizontal part. So using it to directly compute the vertical guy seems strange
@ACuriousMind but strangely enough I understand this stuff better on PG bundles, but here I have a vector bundle
@0celo7 What is his result?
And thinkin about connections in terms of distributions on vector bundles makes my mind hurt.
@0celo7 Yeah, at least the curvature - "commutator of covariant derivatives" - is just the connection form applied to the bracket of the horizontal parts of two vectors field. I would agree a simple formula for the vertical part of a vector field seems strange
13:05
@ACuriousMind $\mathcal C\times_M \mathcal V$ is just some bundle on $M$
the connection $\Gamma$ on $M$ lifts canonically
13:51
@ACuriousMind ?
 
2 hours later…
16:19
Hey guys, whats the best primer on AFMs you've come across
@JohnRennie Yep. We use it over MS Word despite all the anguish. What does that tell you about MS Word?
@DanielSank oy
btw, i live way closer now, had a few busy weeks but that's starting to clear up
k
fite me
16:23
ye man
you know when you saw me biking
i live now like 2 blocks from there
dope
@BernardoMeurer Nooooooooooo. Don't drink that swill!
btw, know anybody i should bug here for AFM questions
Jason Seifter, but he doesn't use this site.
16:29
@0celo7 I don't understand that equation: If $(q,v)$ is a coordinate tuple for the bundle, then why can we feed $q$ and $v$ separately to $f_{t\ast}$? Also, I suspect this expression not somehow general, but depends on how this field $X_\ast$ is lifted and what sort of bundle the $\mathcal{C}\times_M \mathcal{V}$ thingy is.
@Skyler What's "AFM"?
atomic force microscope
@DanielSank so i just need to beat him at smash next time i see him
@ACuriousMind Ok, so $\mathcal C\times_M\mathcal V$ is roughly $S_2M\times_M \mathrm{Hom}(TM,S_2M)$
What's $S_2M$?
@Skyler yep
@ACuriousMind symmetric 2-tensors
and the $\times_M$ just means product the fibers in the natural way over the base
16:34
@ACuriousMind: Writes things like $\mathcal{C} \times_M \mathcal{V}$, but doesn't know what AFM means.
@DanielSank I have no idea what AFM is either
Can I join the 'I don't know what AFM means' club please?
@ACuriousMind So those $f_{t\star}$s are the lifts of $f_t$ to those bundles
he's using $f_{t\star}$ for the lift of $f_t$ to three different bundles, but the idea is the same in all cases.
@DanielSank In physics outside my specialty I often don't know the English technical terms - had Skyler written "REM" I'd have known what it is :P
I don't know what REM is either
16:36
@0celo7 Rasterelektronenmikroskop
Oh, atomic force microscopy
Ah, wait, atomic force is RKM - Rasterkraftmikroskop
You're thinking SEM = scanning electron microscopy
@ACuriousMind So somehow the vertical part of the generator is the covariant derivative of the flow
that seems backwards
@ACuriousMind And it relies on everything being tensor bundles so the covariant derivative of the flow makes sense
So, uh, $f_{t\ast}$ is a tensor field along the curve $t\mapsto f_t(x)$, and the claim is that the covariant derivative of that tensor field is the vertical part of the generator of $f_{t\ast}$
Fixed ;)
Yes, I think that's it.
16:45
So, in general this statement would not make sense because you couldn't take the covariant derivative of the flow for an arbitrary bundle with connection (well, you wouldn't get a flow $f_{t\ast}$ on the bundle that's non-trivial on the fibers to begin with, I guess)
I'm afraid I'm not good at Riemannian geometry, as you know :P
The notation $f_{t*}$ is intentionally suggestive, the action is by pushforward through $f_t\in\mathrm{Diff}(M)$
So, no idea where that statement comes from
@ACuriousMind this has nothing to do with Riemannian geometry
it's field theory
literally, I'm trying to understand the construction of Noether currents for bundles
@ACuriousMind I will review the construction of the splitting $TE=H\oplus V$ for vector bundles given a covariant derivative.
That might explain the mystery
It's not a common topic
@ACuriousMind Do you remember the story for $PG$-bundles?
@0celo7 Yes, given the connection form $\omega$ and the orbit map $O$, the horizontal space is the kernel of $\mathrm{d}O\circ \omega$.
Orbit map?
Where is Kobayashi and Nomizu when you need it...
16:51
@0celo7 The map that applies the group action, $(p,g)\mapsto pg$.
Oh, the right action
most people call that $R$...
oh god, Kobayashi and Nomizu omit the $d$ on derivatives
@ACuriousMind So they just say that $\ker\omega$ is the horz. space
where does the right action come in?
Yes, it just identifies the Lie algebra (which is the target of $\omega$) with the vertical tangent space.
Depending on how you define $\omega$, you may omit it - it's "morally" $\ker(\omega)$, yes.
Should be $O_p$ up there, btw - I only want to take the derivative in $g$.
Well, so if the horizontal part of the bundle is the kernel of the connection, then the vertical part should be something involving the connection, perhaps
@ACuriousMind Ah
So yeah, a diffeo when you fix $p$
@0celo7 Sure - $\omega$ (or $\mathrm{d}O_p \circ \omega$) is surjective onto the vertical space
Kob-No write $Q_u=\{X\in T_uP:\omega(X)=0\}$
16:57
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more superfluous is the $\mathrm{d}O_p$
It's $\ker(\omega)$.
@ACuriousMind Germanism, the "is" should be at the end ;)
This vertical/horizontal nonsense is too complicated
So, wait - at a point, the connection form is just the vertical projection, $\omega_p = \mathrm{d}O_p^{-1}\circ \pi_V$
What is $V$?
$\pi_V$ is what I call the vertical projection $TP\to VP$
What you just wrote looks canonical. The connection isn't.
17:01
What do you mean by canonical?
Hello guys, just posted a question if you would like to give it a minute of your life I would very much appreciate it. physics.stackexchange.com/questions/362668/…
There's multiple connections but you just wrote a formula without mentioning a connection.
Do you mean $\pi_H$?
@0celo7 No, the connection vanishes on horizontals, after all.
@0celo7 What I wrote there is the connection form associated to a principal Ehresmann connection (i.e a splitting $T=V+H$ with projections $\pi_V,\pi_H$).
Oh ok, I guess projecting onto the vertical requires one to separate out the horizontal first.
So that's where the connection is
@ACuriousMind Ok, so what about that formula?
Well, $\pi_V(X) = \Gamma(X)$. Now $(\nabla_X F)^k = (X^j F^i \Gamma^k_{ij} + V(F^k))$.
Ugh
Anyway, I got to go, sorry I wasn't of that much help
17:17
@ACuriousMind np I've got class anyway
17:48
@ACuriousMind Random Eye Movement.
It's a stage of sleep.
 
1 hour later…
19:02
@JohnRennie poor OP seems to have gone unheard
0
Q: What is the meaning of pp-wave (plane-fronted wave) in the gravitational theory?

Tong LiuWhat is the meaning of the pp-wave (plane-fronted wave)? How can I understand this concept? Whether there is a image can help me to learn its physical meaning at the first sight. I know that there are many theories about gravity, such as Einstein field equations and the gauge theory. Whether the ...

this is just the same old plane waves from EM, right?
just with a wonky tensor-valued polarization or something
pretty much
pp-waves are just generic plane waves in GR
They can be EM, scalar or gravitational waves
why pp tho
Not sure
Maybe related to p-waves of classical mechanics
where the p stands for pressure (and which are for longitudinal waves)
Which pp-waves are
Or maybe the p denotes the momentum
or p for plane
weird
I mean, y'all could just have said "plane wave" like normal people do
19:19
Maybe because it sounds like "peepee"
19:35
what, like a Star Wars blaster?
I mean, 'cause it'd be terrible practice if y'all hid a dick joke in your physics or something
lol
@EmilioPisanty i'm trying to think if there'd be a way to hide a comment in a pdf file uploaded to arxiv
like you can hide comments in html pages that you won't ever see unless you dive into it
@Semiclassical no, I like it the way it is, without explicit marks
fair enough
kinda like the paper we used for inspiration (by my PhD supervisor), tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0950034042000275360 Fig. 5
20:23
@ACuriousMind hi
@BernardoMeurer: You are not greeting me but rather @ACuriousMind, are you?
@Hans Correct, I do not know you
@BalarkaSen r/vaporwaveaesthetics
20:43
already know that one
i'm a big vaporhead
@BalarkaSen is that the same as being an airhead?
$\jj$
hm.
$\jmath$
-2
Q: Why did my question become off-topic?

Liam I have a question about my Physics Stack Exchange post: Kepler's Third Law Why did my question become off-topic? I just wanted to get a formula and said that I will solve it myself. Why aren't formula questions allowed? As far as i know, the formulas are in conceptual physics. Then, I'm ask...

@BalarkaSen My advisor dumped surgery papers on me. What is surgery?
20:58
something something Ricci flow?
@Semiclassical this isn't in a Ricci flow context
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