The h Bar

7:00 PM

@Blue Oh, that immediately declares book as one variable of type Books

and the identifier i now refers to some bit of memeory that is the right size for an int and the compiler will treat in that way.

Anonymous

@ACuriousMind But, can't we access the structure members i.e. title, author, subject, book_id without declaring the book variable at the end? I read that it is optional to declare variables at the end

ACuriousMind

@Blue You could leave it out

dmckee

To have a bit of memory that is a book you have to do

struct book theBook;

so that theBook names a bit of memory that is a book.

ACuriousMind

@dmckee careful

dmckee

7:01 PM

As an aside, :39353780 is a very FORTRANesque thing to do.

A c programmer would write

ACuriousMind

The name of the struct type here is Books, and book is an instance

It would be equivalent to write

dmckee

struct Book {
char title;
char author;
char subject;
int book_id;
} book;

Anonymous

@ACuriousMind But what is its use? In some programs they seem to write book_1, book_2 and so on...Does that mean we are creating objects of Book type?

ACuriousMind

struct Books {
char title[50];
char author[50];
char subject[100];
int book_id;
};
struct Books book;

dmckee

struct Book Books[50];

ACuriousMind

7:02 PM

Dammit, how does multiline code work?

@Blue Yes

dmckee

in order to have 50 separate Books instead of a set of parallel arrays unless they had a very good reason for using the parallel array form.

Anonymous

@ACuriousMind Gotcha. Thanks !

ACuriousMind

Although "objects" is not quite the right word because C doesn't really have the concept of objects in the modern sense

Anonymous

@dmckee Thanks. I got it now

ACuriousMind

But yeah, you can think of structs as objects for most cases

Anonymous

7:03 PM

@ACuriousMind Oh, I see. I come from a Java background :P

Anonymous

I think of everything as either classes or objects XD

dmckee

A c programmer would probably also use a typedef to avoid writing struct Book everywhere

struct Book_s { ...};

typedef struct Book_s Book

Book theBooks[50];

ACuriousMind

Why are you putting a [50] there?

dmckee

Or you could combine the first two lines like

ACuriousMind

Ah, you want to declare a library ;)

dmckee

7:05 PM

typedef struct Book_s {...} Book;

@ACuriousMind Uhm. Actually misunderstood the intent of the initial code.

ACuriousMind

@Blue Yeah, that's an object-oriented paradigm which would be appropriate for C++, but not so much for C

dmckee

I'd be unlikely to use fixed-length arrays for string data like that, but until he is ready for dynamically declared and managed pointer-to-block date types that is the way to go.

@Blue Disregaurd what I said earlier about arrays. Or ratehr, keep it in mind for later, but don't worry about it now.

Anonymous

@ACuriousMind So, coding was in your syllabus or you learnt it separately? :) (I remember you saying that you are thinking of shifting to a programming career from mathematics)

dmckee

You can achieve object orientation in c. But it's generally more trouble than it is worth and requires you to be a bit of a guru to even get started.

You have to speak function-pointers like a native. Ick.

ACuriousMind

@Blue I learned Delphi (variant of Pascal) in school, taught myself Python on the side, and had to learn C for a course on QFT numerical simulations I took at uni

I also dabbled a bit in Haskell because it's neat

dmckee

7:10 PM

@ACuriousMind Pascal was my first language of formal instruction, too. Turbo Pascal 3.3 or DOS (so about two generation before they re-named it Delphi).

Anonymous

@dmckee Sure. Will keep in mind. I'm learning the basic syntax of C. (Tbh it's a bit confusing to learn C after a completely object oriented language like Java. Maybe C++ will be easier)

Anonymous

@ACuriousMind Cool! From where did you learn python? Books or video lectures?

dmckee

I'd done basic and even some assembly on the Apple ][+ at home before that.

Anonymous

I'm thinking of teaching myself python too

Mithrandir24601

@ACuriousMind Functional programming! :D Love functional languages :D

Anonymous

7:12 PM

Anyhow, I suppose the most important part of CS is data structures and algorithms

dmckee

@Blue The point of learning c is to make you confront what is going on in the bowels of the computer when you blithely fire off those clever constructs from higher-level languages.

It gives you a reference point to understand how leaky abstractions fail you so that you can work around the problems they make.

ACuriousMind

@Blue Some written tutorial on the internet (I don't remember which, it was...gosh, 6 years ago), driven by the need to process a sizable amount of files in time for our yearbook.

Anonymous

@dmckee Yeah. Our professor at university was saying the same thing. Hehe :D

Anonymous

@ACuriousMind Some net tutorials are indeed good. :)

dmckee

@Blue It doesn't really matter after you second language or so unless you are shifting paradigms (imperative versus functional versus declarative and object-oriented or not). The differences between languages of the same class are trivial compared to learning how to think about programming in the first place.

Well, the kind of trivial that people get really worked up about.

ACuriousMind

7:16 PM

@Mithrandir24601 Exactly, it's perfect for someone already familiar with the mathematical ideas of functions/monads/whathaveyou

@dmckee It's pretty amazing how difficult it was to learn the first language compared to the next ones. If only natural languages had that kind of benefit!

Well, I guess they do if you learn closely related ones, but still not to that extent

Anonymous

@dmckee I know. I just want to know a few languages so that I don't have trouble browsing sites like Stack Overflow. Often people answer the questions using Python there. My favuorite language as of now is Java and I am trying to improve my knowledge of Java by taking Coursera courses as well as courses on Data Structures/Algorithms. BTW, I'm really starting to like competitive programming :D

CooperCape

so is functional programming where you program with "f(x)..." and such or what?

Anonymous

@ACuriousMind Well, that's true. Coz programming is more about application of logic. Syntax is easy to learn. On the other hand, linguistics is often illogical. :P

ACuriousMind

@CooperCape Well, I could say "yes", but what would that actually tell you? You can declare a function named f that takes an argument named x in most languages, regardless of whether they're functional or not

dmckee

@CooperCape In 'pure' functional program no object ever changes after it is created and the only communication out of functions is the return value. So the program is composed (heh!) of a lot of composed functions f(g(h(x))); i(j(y)); k(z); f(k(i((g(w))))); and so on.

Lots of Irritating Silly Parenthesis.

ACuriousMind

7:21 PM

It's more about the paradigm - in OOP, everything is an object, in functional programming, everything is either a function or a value

dmckee

Most real functional language relax those conditions a little for practical reasons.

ACuriousMind

@dmckee Heh. That's why Haskell has the bracketing default to the right, i.e. f g h x means f(g(h(x)))

dmckee

@ACuriousMind I keep meaning to find the time to look at a modern functional language. Hasn't happened yet.

ACuriousMind

If you're crafty and make the "complicated" argument of your functions their last one, you can go with surprisingly few parentheses

Simplex

I'm working on a bachelor's in physics and some job postings I've seen say something like "degree in engineering, math, physics, etc. from an ABET accredited program/institution. I know that ABET doesn't accredit pure science programs and I can't find any info on ABET accreditation at the institutional level. Can I assume that my physics program would be considered accredited if the engineering programs at my school are?

ACuriousMind

7:24 PM

I have no idea what ABET even is.

Anonymous

ABET

ABET, incorporated as the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology, Inc., is a non-governmental organization that accredits post-secondary education programs in "applied science, computing, engineering, and engineering technology". The accreditation of these programs occurs mainly in the United States but also internationally. As of October 2016, 3,709 programs are accredited, distributed over 752 universities and colleges in 30 countries. ABET is the recognized U.S. accreditor of college and university programs in applied science, computing, engineering, and technology. ABET also provides...

CooperCape

Soz for being a bit of a noob lol I'm only used to basic Object Oriented...

Anonymous

ABET, incorporated as the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology, Inc., is a non-governmental organization that accredits post-secondary education programs in "applied science, computing, engineering, and engineering technology".[1][2][3][4]

Simplex

@Blue Thanks

Anonymous

Is physics considered pure science or applied science?....

CooperCape

7:25 PM

applied... applied maths.

(I'm joking)

Anonymous

Probably a superposition of the two :P

ACuriousMind

@Blue Entirely depends on what sort of physics in my personal opinion, but I think it would generally be considered "pure science"

Simplex

I would guess pure science, but I think some "applied physics" degrees are accredited by them

ACuriousMind

Doesn't get much purer than that, with the exception of math, whose status as a science is dubious ;)

Balarka Sen

mhm

ACuriousMind

7:27 PM

::waves to lurking mathematicians::

Anonymous

lol

Anonymous

:D

Balarka Sen

::Dabs back at ACM::

ACuriousMind

::headbangs in @BalarkaSen's direction::

dmckee

In a lot of ways math is a field of endeavor completely separate from most other human activities. I mean, philosophy has much in common with math in an idealized sense, but philosophy suffers from using natural language as their medium.

Balarka Sen

7:29 PM

True metalhead

but the Jake Pauler army is bigger

dmckee

I might go so far as to say "Math is philosophy that works."

ACuriousMind

@dmckee Eh, I think one shouldn't throw all philosophy under the same label.

0celóñe7

@BalarkaSen Jake Paulers are the strongest army ever

truly savage

ACuriousMind

Until you mentioned him a few days ago, I literally had never heard of this Jake Pauler

Balarka Sen

verily

@ACuriousMind start by listening to "It's Everyday Bro"

ACuriousMind

7:33 PM

@BalarkaSen No.

Balarka Sen

It's one of the classics of the century

ACuriousMind

Good thing the century is young, then!

Balarka Sen

that man is making a new kind of rap, which is meant to sound like shit

it's the future of music

Anonymous

@BalarkaSen All rap is shit.

Balarka Sen

Well, not true.

Anonymous

7:35 PM

According to me =P

Balarka Sen

Like, look at Death Grips

ACuriousMind

@Blue Not even I would say that's true

0celóñe7

@Blue How dare you

CooperCape

if Jake Paul is the 'future of music' I'm quitting music A level

Anonymous

Oh gosh...I find Death Grips awful. I know some people like it though.

Anonymous

7:37 PM

Death Grips - No Love (Official Video)

►

Anonymous

Is this even "music"? :P

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind Why not?

@ACuriousMind How?

CooperCape

mmmm can't say I really like it from that video...

ACuriousMind

@0celóñe7 Apparently, my corner of the internet and his simply don't intersect

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind How is possible to even be on the internet and not know Jake Paul

Balarka Sen

7:39 PM

@ACuriousMind Try this

0celóñe7

He is the greatest superstar in the Female age 10-16 demographic right now

Balarka Sen

Daz Watches It's Everyday Bro

►

ACuriousMind

@0celóñe7 Me and the female age 10-16 demographic have very little to do with each other.

Balarka Sen

One of the greatest roasts of It's Everyday Bro

CooperCape

'England is my city'

ACuriousMind

7:41 PM

I think @heather might be the only person in that category I actually know :P

Balarka Sen

savage, @ACuriousMind

ACuriousMind

@BalarkaSen Huh?

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind ayy lmao

you don't get it

you must be too old

ACuriousMind

I genuinely have no idea what you two are on about

Balarka Sen

it's a jake paulers in-joke

0celóñe7

7:42 PM

@BalarkaSen are Indians allowed to say the n-word

ACuriousMind

@BalarkaSen Why am I watching a guy in an undershirt talking?

Balarka Sen

@ACuriousMind because he roasts Jake Paul

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind Because you clicked on the video?

@BalarkaSen why not post the Pewds or h3 roasts

they are actually relevant people

Balarka Sen

@0celóñe7 I dunno, uh. I never said it.

ACuriousMind

@0celóñe7 That much is true.

Balarka Sen

7:43 PM

Pewds roast is good but not as good as this guy's

the first roast was by memeulous actually

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind spitting trufe like a god church

@BalarkaSen that name is too meta for me

ACuriousMind

I prefer the satan church

0celóñe7

do you just live on memes?

Balarka Sen

kek yes

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind As a Christian, this is very offensive.

ACuriousMind

7:44 PM

@0celóñe7 meme, math, and weird internet chats :P

@0celóñe7 That's unfortunate, but I don't think you can reasonably find someone else expressing a different religious preference offensive :P

@BalarkaSen Actually, this guy is starting to grow on me

CooperCape

@ACuriousMind I have a catholic friend that literally believes everyone who isn't a Catholic is going to hell.

Balarka Sen

@ACuriousMind Told ya

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind I don't see how devil worship is anything but treason against the species.

ACuriousMind

@0celóñe7 The church of satan does not worship the devil.

CooperCape

If the devil was a movie he'd be sooooooooooooooooooooooo full of plot holes.

0celóñe7

7:53 PM

@ACuriousMind So they're glorified trolls?

Anonymous

@0celóñe7 Are devil and god any different?

ACuriousMind

@0celóñe7 Perhaps, I actually haven't looked into them in depth

CooperCape

From what I read Church of Satan is atheists that believe in opposition?

Anonymous

"Membership to the Church is gained by paying $200 and filling out a registration statement"

Anonymous

lol :'D

ACuriousMind

7:57 PM

@CooperCape Well, they're atheists, but they seem to be also esoterists believing in some form of magic. Or maybe not magic, but "magic". I'm not sure, and they've given me no reason to look into it

CooperCape

Seems a bit hypocritical? The head Priest literally says "My real feeling is that anybody who believes in supernatural entities on some level is insane". Or at least according to wiki.

Balarka Sen

That can also be said unhypocritically

CooperCape

Yeah but if as ACuriousMind is saying they also believe "in some form of magic"

Balarka Sen

Maybe they don't mind being insane, for example

ACuriousMind

@CooperCape Well, reading a bit further into "LaVeyan Satanism", it seems they don't believe in the supernatural, but do practice rituals and so on whose effects are supposed to be psychological (and possibly involving not-yet-discovered science)

So they believe in the efficiacy of practices they (or others) call magic, but they don't claim supernatural causes for that

Balarka Sen

8:01 PM

That too

CooperCape

and all the crazy connotations associated with it.

Huh... certainly interesting... if not a little... weird.

Balarka Sen

Probably by supernatural they mean believing in an entity who controls the events which they call as magic

That'd be equivalent to saying there is god, which obviously opposes their beliefs

So quite understandably.

CooperCape

That's fair but the reason he cites for it is that "they are abdicating reason". I dunno...

0celóñe7

Baelish is gonna get thrown out the moon door

heather

@0celóñe7 who the heck is jake paul?

0celóñe7

8:05 PM

@heather oh my gooooood

ACuriousMind

lol

0celóñe7

@BalarkaSen we are the only two culturally woke people here

Balarka Sen

Sad Violin - Air Horn Sound Effect (MLG)

►

0celóñe7

hahahahaha

poor Lysa

@ACuriousMind this show is great

ACuriousMind

It is/was, but I'm getting the impression we like it for very different reasons :P

0celóñe7

8:10 PM

@ACuriousMind Doubtful, did you not think that scene was great?

Anonymous

How to convert latitude, longitude coordinates to North and East coordinates? For example what does (32.881, -117.238) represent?

ACuriousMind

@0celóñe7 It didn't particularly stick in my mind, but it's been a while since I watched it, after all

@Blue What are "North and East coordinates"?

If they're not latitude/longitude, I don't know what they're supposed to be

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind FWIW I do like the show for other reasons, but I hate Lysa

Anonymous

@ACuriousMind For example (22.5726° N, 88.3639° E)...I am a bit confused by the negative sign there ^. Does that represent West?

0celóñe7

I think all of it is good except for the "Bran going North" part

ACuriousMind

8:13 PM

@Blue Yes

0celóñe7

Unless that storyline actually does something, it seems a bit pointless

ACuriousMind

@0celóñe7 Yeah, the scenes with Bran are mostly the weaker ones

Anonymous

Okay. So it is (32.881°N, 117.238°W)

Anonymous

Thanks

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind And I don't like the Wildlings because there is just senseless on-screen killing for the hell of it.

ACuriousMind

8:16 PM

@Blue Yup

Strum

Can I get somebody to ask "which article" in physics.stackexchange.com/questions/351262/… ?

@Blue Dont you have church tax in India?( if that is where you're from)

Anonymous

There are hardly any churches here

Strum

8:31 PM

Oh here we have state religion which costs around 0.9%in income tax every year. 200 $ is a measly sum for religious membership

A bargain some might argue

Anonymous

That sounds bad....

Anonymous

Taxes should be utilized for productive stuff

Strum

How so?

ahh

Anonymous

(I wouldn't say the tax system in India is not screwed)

Anonymous

Only 1-2% of the population pays tax

Anonymous

8:34 PM

Moreover, most of that is looted by the ministers and all

Balarka Sen

@Blue Our current PM tried to fix that, but brought about new cancers.

Anonymous

Yeah, GST was a good idea. But the implementation went a 'bit' wrong

Strum

Here you can just opt out if you don't want to pay church tax. Most just don't care and pay regardless.

How does India even work if only 1-2% pays taxes?

Balarka Sen

It's a staircase of sham. The money which is supposed to circulate around the economy in India is mostly hypothetical money; it doesn't exist in reality.

This has a name, I forget what it's called.

ACuriousMind

@BalarkaSen Most economies' money doesn't exist "in reality"

Anonymous

8:41 PM

Maybe we should start using crypto-currencies instead :P

Anonymous

Well, money is an "imaginary" construct anyway

Balarka Sen

That's not what I am talking about.

Ugh, I have totally forgotten the name of this, sorry.

ACuriousMind

Are you talking about fractional reserve banking?

It leads to more money being in circulation than being actually covered by any deposits (hence "not existing in reality"), but it's not unique to India at all.

Anonymous

Yeah, I think Balarka is talking about that

Balarka Sen

Something like that, I think so.

Anonymous

8:44 PM

BTW anyone here has ever bought Bitcoins or other cryptocurrencies?

Strum

But isn't that how most banks work?

ACuriousMind

@Strum It is

@Blue No. I know someone who started mining Bitcoins at the right time, though, and made a pretty penny with it

Mostly I prefer to pay my drugs with cash, not bitcoin, though ;P

Strum

Isn't the EU legislation that a bank only need around 10 % of what lending out?

Balarka Sen

Does it not get complicated if throughout a country's worth of population you have multifold more net money than what's being circulated around?

ACuriousMind

I don't know what proportion it is exactly, but that sounds about right and is the basis of fractional reserve banking

@BalarkaSen Not if no one ever wants to withdraw that money

Strum

8:47 PM

I got a som bitcoin, Ethereum, golem and antshares. Had some money to burn a few months back

ACuriousMind

That's why e.g. they limited ATMs in Greece to a rather low amount of cash out per day during the height of the financial crisis, for example

Balarka Sen

@ACuriousMind Kinda what happened to India in the past few months when they changed currency.

I think.

ACuriousMind

Maybe they're still limited. I haven't followed the events in Greece since most of the media decided it wasn't interesting anymore :|

Balarka Sen

A heavy deposit of money was exchanged to newer currency, and the whole process of "introducing newer currency" took much longer time (months) than the deposition (7 days). It seems to me that should have similar effect as withdrawing a massive amount of liquid money (is that the right terminology?) out of the economy.

Yeah I heard the thing going on about Greece.

Strum

But given that banks own most of the real estate marked even having 10% of that money lying around most be an insane amount of money. Can people really manage to withdraw that kind of money?

ACuriousMind

8:52 PM

@Strum I think it's mostly a problem of distribution - perhaps they have enough money somewhere, but you have to transport it to the people demanding it fast enough. Also consider that when many people withdraw their deposits, the bank would also need to acquire new cash to back the deposits of the people who still have their money with them. When suddenly every bank needs to do that things can quickly spiral out of control

Balarka Sen

Seems to describe our situation in 2016 well.

Strum

@ACuriousMind Transportation of money, what an archaic problem.

ACuriousMind

Well, we could switch entirely to electronic cash ;)

That would then necessitate a fractional reserve of 0%

Balarka Sen

But also has many obvious downsides, nonetheless.

ACuriousMind

Or we could start a revolution and do away with cash itself entirely.

Balarka Sen

9:03 PM

Ah, comrade

Socialism or Stalin

0celóñe7

Are we doing ironic communism again?

Balarka Sen

No third option

ACuriousMind

@BalarkaSen I have to choose between a political position and a person?

@0celóñe7 Did you see a winky face after what I said? :P

Balarka Sen

@ACuriousMind Broseph Stalin is a perfectly fine political position.

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind Stalin is a political position you capitalist pig

Balarka Sen

9:05 PM

He is a symbol to us all.

you capitalist pigdog

ACuriousMind

Uhhhhhhh

0celóñe7

@BalarkaSen But why Stalin over Lenin

Balarka Sen

Illych Ulyanov is a respectable comrade, but Stalin successfully used the GULAG.

ACuriousMind

Honestly, I feel jokingly glorifying Stalin is only a small step up - if at all - from jokingly glorifying Hitler, and I'm not sure I'm cool with either of those.

0celóñe7

What is the official SE policy on the matter?

Balarka Sen

9:10 PM

@ACuriousMind Well, the usual argument is that the crimes which happened in Stalin's age are controversial. Pink communists would defend that by class struggle and economical situation of USSR at that time, standard red communists would say that the numbers of political murders are controversial (it indeed is), far communists would say most of it was justified.

Nobody defends crimes of the Nazi party, so there's that.

But I am not a communist, so I'll stop if you want me to :P

(I hope all my commie jokes are perceived as strong ironical snides)

ACuriousMind

@BalarkaSen If you think that you haven't been paying attention to the "right" people.

0celóñe7

I resent the pun @ACuriousMind

ACuriousMind

@BalarkaSen I know (or, at least, am very certain) you don't actually think Stalin was great, don't worry about that.

Balarka Sen

heh

@ACuriousMind Interesting. I won't discuss that here further, but interesting.

ACuriousMind

@0celóñe7 The people who defend Hitler are right (at least by the German meaning of the word). The reverse of course does not hold true (you can be right and not defend Hitler).

Seriously, the word "right" is horribly overloaded in English

Sloppily designed language :P

Strum

9:17 PM

What would the german word be?

Balarka Sen

Here's something (en)lightening:

Soviet Army dancing to Hard Bass

►

Press F to pay those comrades due respect.

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind Why did no one send reinforcements to the Wall??? They sent out those ravens, does no one care?

ACuriousMind

@Strum We have a much clearer distinction between rechts sein (being right(-wing)) and Recht haben (being right as opposed to being wrong), and as an adjective, we have rechte Leute as opposed to richtige Leute for "right(-wing) people" as opposed to "right (and not wrong) people".

@0celóñe7 Most Westerosi don't believe there really is a threat beyond the wall. Also they're busy with fighting for the throne

Strum

@ACuriousMind I still dont know what to think about "The people who defend Hitler are right". Are they right wing( probably) are they morally right ( well that depend on your view i suppose)?

0celóñe7

I read it as "you haven't been listening to right wing people"

ACuriousMind

9:30 PM

@Strum I meant the first option.

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind Oh, so pick a right wing person and listen to him defend Hitler?

ACuriousMind

@0celóñe7 No, didn't I already say that being right-wing doesn't imply defending Hitler? The implication goes the other way around.

And that's also at least partly because locating opinions on the one-dimensional spectrum of right-left isn't particulary precise or fine-grained.

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind Where would one put any of the anarchist leanings

they reject the whole notion of government

ACuriousMind

I think "anarchist" is broad enough a label they can be all over the spectrum

An anarcho-capitalist would probably be located somewhere to the right, while collectivist anarchism is definitely to the left.

The distinction being mostly how the concept of property is viewed, I guess.

Mithrandir24601

9:55 PM

@0celóñe7 Also, they think that the people at the wall are criminals because they send all their criminals to the wall...

AccidentalFourierTransform

a necessary edit, that last one

0celóñe7

@ACuriousMind Ah, thanks for not spoilering :)

Guess that scene earlier with Davos' raven played out

0celóñe7

10:26 PM

@ACuriousMind Was...locking them in a pitch-black catacomb really a good idea?

DanielSank

10:55 PM

Hi, everybody.

Quick, someone ask a physics question that I can answer.

I wanna feel useful.

Mithrandir24601

@DanielSank erm... How good are the eyes in comparison to Single Photon Detectors at visible frequencies?

DanielSank

Pretty sure eyes click at single photons but have a lot of dark counts.

Mithrandir24601

@DanielSank Seems possible... I've seen the nature article about that experiment on people trying to count single photons (I didn't feel it was overly well explained/worded but anyway), but they didn't seem to calculate (or are the even able to?) things like how efficient eyes are at and I don't remember them trying it at different frequencies, which is the thing I feel that I want to know, for no reason whatsoever

DanielSank

:-)

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