The h Bar

Sir Cumference

02:53

So, uh...how is deuterium actually pronounced?

sigh, idiot cousin

John Rennie

07:00

0

Q: Crossing the event horizon of a black hole before a black hole evaporates

Given that black holes have a finite life, how is physically possible to cross an event horizon before a black hole evaporates? That is, Hawking radiation will evaporate a black holes within 10^100 years. This events occurs at a finite coordinate time and a finite local (proper) time as calculate...

This guy has posted the same answer six times, all of them with links to his own paper on the subject, and followed it up with a question that is basically just another advert for his own paper.

dmckee

That's a reasonable use case for a custom flag. We even have a mod-message template for excessive self-promotion.

John Rennie

The journal he has published in is Progress in Physics, which is basically another Vixra:

Progress in Physics

Progress in Physics is an American alternative science journal, publishing papers in theoretical and experimental physics, including related themes from mathematics. The journal aims to promote fair and non-commercialized science, as stated in its Declaration of Academic Freedom: Owing to furtive jealousy and vested interest, modern science abhors open discussion and wilfully banishes those scientists who question the orthodox views. Very often, scientists of outstanding ability, who point out deficiencies in current theory or interpretation of data, are labelled as crackpots, so that their views...

@dmckee I've flagged the question. Should I go back and flag all six answers as well?

dmckee

Nah. Once is enough.

@JohnRennie I was just trying to learn the background of that venue. Thanks.

macco

07:36

Anyone have some great non-fiction book suggestions?

John Rennie

@macco what subjects, and at what level? Popular science?

macco

07:50

I like both popular and books that are a bit more involved. I read for example recently the books branches, flow and shapes by Philipp Ball and rocket propulsion elements by george sutton.

I really enjoy understanding everyday phenomena too, like for example why glass cracks in the patterns it does etc...

Sanya

what exactly should the low quality flag be used for? I've recently become able to review LQ-flags and I see a lot of stuff that is bad but not as bad to qualify for, I quote from the flag description, "This question has severe formatting or content problems. This question is unlikely to be salvageable through editing, and might need to be removed."

So what is the community agreement on how to actually use this flag/how to vote in the queue?

user228700

@JohnR: Morning :-)

John Rennie

Aha, you survived the bus journey then :-)

user228700

Yes, I did! It was terrible though.

John Rennie

I can well imagine. Such a long trip on a bus strikes me as something of an ordeal!

user228700

08:02

Our bus was s'ppsed to meet us at 6:45 but it turned out to be a van of sorts, which was hot and stuffy. We were taken to another place to wait for the bus and we reached there at 8. Then we were told that our bus would arrive only at 10 so we waited and waited...

John Rennie

@Sanya VLQ means the post doesn't make sense i.e. it is impossible from reading it to work out what it means.

user228700

Finally, it did and we got down at 6 in the morning. That's 8 hours inside the friggin' bus and even more hours spent travelling!

John Rennie

@Sanya It doesn't mean the post is incorrect, or not an answer or inappropriate for some other reason. It just means it's incomprehensible.

@Kaumudi.H I guess the Indian transport system is going through the same growing pains that the UK transport system did.

user228700

We only reached home at 7:30 (after another long auto-ride) and then, I slept till 12:30 PM because I wasn't, of course, able to sleep in the bus. I tried but I only acquired body pain and a few minutes of shut-eye as a result.

John Rennie

Some would claim the UK transport system is still well below par :-)

user228700

08:05

What? There is no way that's true.

Sanya

@JohnRennie that is what I thought, yeah - I just have the feeling most of the flags I have attempted to review are on posts that are really bad but perfectly coherent

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H I find it really hard to sleep in a chair - even a comfortable chair.

user228700

Same here. I'm relatively tall and have long legs. Long legs and cramped bus seats-ah, the joy!

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H it's true :-)

@Sanya the VLQ flag is widely misused. To be fair many of us feel that it's current definition is inappropriate, but that's what the rules say.

Sanya

@Kaumudi.H it is - compared to other places in europe. London public transportation is fine (though very expensive), the train network between the big cities is alright, but public transportation in other places can be quite expensive and not very decent (sorry to any British person around, I don't want to offend you - I actually liked living in your country anyway :) )

@JohnRennie ok - thanks for clearing that up :)

user228700

08:08

Oh, wow. Up to 5000 complaints a day sheesh!

John Rennie

@Sanya: trust me you won't offend us Brits by complaining about the transport system. We're with you on this one!

@Kaumudi.H to be fair i suspect expectations are higher in the UK, mainly because fares are so high. When people pay that much they expect a high standard of service, which isn't always delivered.

user228700

Right, right...

Kenshin

@JohnRennie what is vixra?

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H So, you have a week admiring the Keralan countryside now?

Kenshin

arxiv backwards?

user228700

08:11

@JohnRennie Pretty much, yeah.

user228700

More than a week, actually; 13 days.

John Rennie

@Kenshin yes. It's a sort of parallel Arxiv set up by Phill Gibbs to try and allow access for non-professional scientists. Phill Gibbs is a good guy, and his motives were noble, but it's become a cess pool of crackpots.

I believe Phill Gibbs has now dissociated himself from it - possibly in despair.

@Kaumudi.H Aren't you going to Munnar after the first week. That will at least provide some variety.

user228700

Actually, I don't know when we're going.

user228700

I hope we're going in the first place.

user228700

But yes, one week here and then we're off to other places; dad's brother's house, etc.

John Rennie

08:14

@Kenshin: you do get reputable scientists publishing on Vixra in an attempt to raise the standards, but it's a forlorn hope.

Kenshin

@JohnRennie if a non-academic makes a discovery, where should they publish?

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H Any plans for this week?

@Kenshin Any reputable journal will accept submissions from non-academics

Kenshin

@JohnRennie I thought even arxiv requires academic affiliation

user228700

Nope. None at all. Today happens to be my grandpa's birthday so there's a special lunch (nothing for me though; don't like Kerelan cuisine). I suspect I'll spend the rest of the afternoon in attempts to finish a book...

John Rennie

@Kenshin Arxiv isn't a journal. It's purpose is for you to publish a preprint when your paper has been accepted by a journal. If you get something published you can apply to Arxiv for membership. If your paper has ben accepted by a reputable journal you will be granted access.

user228700

08:18

Ah, but I think I'm going to the city tomorrow to watch a film. That should be interesting.

Kenshin

I see ty, I thought people publish to arxiv before being accepted

John Rennie

In this context Vixra does not count as a reputable journal :-)

Kenshin

@J

@JohnRennie if one publishes in vixra, does it ruin their reputation ?

John Rennie

@Kenshin No, it's the other way around. Though established scientists do use the Arxiv to publish other stuff such as talks or other pop science articles. But they do this on the back of their already established reputation.

@Kenshin I'm not sure it would ruin your reputation, but it would certainly make people suspicious.

Kenshin

lol

user228700

08:21

I should probably go have lunch now...

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H anything to pass the time I guess. What city is it?

user228700

Back later, folks! :-)

Kenshin

by

John Rennie

Bye. I have to work for a bit anyway ...

user228700

@JohnRennie Thrissur.

John Rennie

08:21

20th largest city in India!

macco

I like both popular and books that are a bit more involved. I read for example recently the books branches, flow and shapes by Philipp Ball and rocket propulsion elements by george sutton.
I really enjoy understanding everyday phenomena too, like for example why glass cracks in the patterns it does etc...

John Rennie

@macco I don't read that many pop sci books on physics because, well, I already know physics. But I read a fair bit on other areas e.g. maths, biology, archeology etc. I can recommend some of those if you're interested.

macco

Sure

Just drop a quick list?

John Rennie

I don't have a list to hand, but for example if you're intersted in archeology then two excellent books by Eric Cline are "Three Stones Make a Wall" and "1177 BC The Year Civilization Collapsed"

If you've ever wondered what the Riemann conjecture means and why it matters then "Prime Obsession" by John Derbyshire is really excllent.

In biology/evolutionary science Raymond Coppinger's book "What Is a Dog" is really good if a little rambling.

macco

Thanks! I looked them up, Three Stones make a wall seems very interesting to me.

I read a book once drawing some parallels with Archaology and SETI, but dont know much about archaeology yet

John Rennie

08:34

@macco It's a really good overview of the history of archeology, and I found it fascinating reading.

Secret

The following has no difference to those who don't understand how to read it:

macco

Great I think I will pick it up. Need some books for long bus rides :).

Secret

Therefore, it proves maths is also a type of language

It will also raise interesting questions: How will future humans or lifeforms after humanity has died will decipher what we now known as QFT

and what exactly, does it mean for a technology to be advanced, is it in its time, or after

macco

Actually what was that book again on SETI archaology free from Nasa, they discussed exactly that I think

Lemme find it

nasa.gov/connect/ebooks/…

Its free actually

I like the questions too about: How can you know that something is made by intelligent life and not just a natural phenomenon?

Danu

10:24

@JohnRennie incorrect. Non-published (and non-publishable) articles are accepted too.

John Rennie

2 hours ago, by John Rennie

@Kenshin No, it's the other way around. Though established scientists do use the Arxiv to publish other stuff such as talks or other pop science articles. But they do this on the back of their already established reputation.

Danu

But maybe you were just talking about how to get in

I don't know if that requires a publication, or just endorsements from others.

John Rennie

I did look into getting access, purely out of interest - I had no plans to publish anything, and as I recall you basically just need someone to vouch for you. Though presumably the people running the site will look at your affiliations and those of your proposer.

However that was a decade ago, and the rules may have changed since.

Xasel

hey @JohnRennie Good Morning !How ae you?

John Rennie

Morning :-)

Xasel

10:33

since you are into chemistry can you tell my why chain isomers although have different physical properties, but have same chemical properties? @JohnRennie

John Rennie

You mean for example why branched polymers have different physical properties to straight chain ones?

Xasel

well my book enlist few examples like penatne ,ne pentance,etc,, same for butane, iso butane ,etc.. and then at the end of the section it says that chain isomers have same chemical properties but different physical properties. I can easily undertsand why different physical properties

but why no different chemical property confuse me

as the structural geometery

can induce change in chemical properties

John Rennie

Ah OK, small molecules like alkanes ...

Xasel

according to my intution

I googled but found nothing of help

John Rennie

Well alkanes are pretty inert except under forcing conditions like setting fire to them, and under such conditions the shape of the molecule doesn't make a lot of difference. In general the shape of the molecule does affect its chemical properties.

For example enzymes are highly shpe specific.

Both the shape of the enzyme molecule and the shape of the substrate it acts on.

Xasel

10:40

why not ?why shape doesn't affect the chemical properties of alkane(sorry idon't know much about enzymes so i won't discussing on them)

John Rennie

Well, what difference do you think the shape would make. Can you give an example of a reaction where you think the shape should make a difference?

Xasel

well if we imagine thinks at atomic level then wont't the shape will affect the forces betwwen the atoms

and thus affect the reactios

I don't have any particular reaction in mind, just acting on the intution @JohnRennie

John Rennie

On the whole the interactions that cause reactions happen at length scales around the chemical bond length i.e. a few tenths of a nm. So what the molecule is like farther away has little effect. Well, unless the rest of the molecule has indirect effects like inductive effects or steric restrictions.

Kenshin

hi @JohnRennie

Xasel

lets take for example n-Butane and Isobutane

Bernardo Meurer

10:49

@JohnRennie Where were you yesterday Mr. ?

Secret

Chemistry question: Suppose I have a molecule box that look like this:

A----A
| |
| |
A----A

Now make one of the A positively charged

A----A
| |
| |
A----A+

Now place L-Alanine into the box and measure its NMR. Repeat instead with D-Alanine. Do I expect the NMRs to be different since the anisotropic environment of the box (despite having no stereocentres) means the two enantiomers will be subjected to slightly different chemical environments?

Kenshin

Suppose SE charged users 1c to view an answer, and top answerers were paid 0.5c per view, how would this change the landscape of SE @JohnRennie?

2

Bernardo Meurer

Please, no Chemistry here

PLEASE

John Rennie

@BernardoMeurer at the Chester SF group meeting from 14:00 to 15:30, then in the pub from 15:30 until, erm, we were there a while :-)

Xasel

Ain't the geometrey will affects the interatomic forces and hece the further dynamics for e.g. n-Butane and isobutane one is triangualr is structure and other s weel quite different from the previous one

Bernardo Meurer

10:50

@JohnRennie I'd complain, but that's a nice schedule :P

John Rennie

@Xasel alkanes contain only CH and CC bonds, and neither bond is much affected by the shape of the rest of the molecule.

Xasel

Can you tell me why so?

Secret

For some reason, looking at the energetics of the enantiomers I have calculated in my PhD caused me to wonder whether enantiomers can be made to behave chemically differently under an anisotropic environment that is achiral

John Rennie

Well no. The question is why would the bond be affected by the rest of the molecule? That is, what reasons could there be for the rest of the molecule to affect the bond. For alkanes I can't think of any reasons.

Secret

because naively speaking, you have this spatial arrangement of your molecule wrt the surrounding environment to be considered. Since the environemnt is anisotropic, there are some preferred directionality, and I suspect that will affect how the enantiomers will respond

Xasel

10:55

can you tell me where to look for answers..any keyword to the field which deals with this(googled and found nothing)

John Rennie

11:10

@BernardoMeurer: did you sort the errors with free?

Bernardo Meurer

@JohnRennie Well, I removed the line and called it a day lol

John Rennie

:-)

Bernardo Meurer

But then I had some beer

Xasel

???

John Rennie

Hope whoever is marking it doesn't notice :-)

Bernardo Meurer

11:15

And I fucked up a bunch of things

and I had to rollback the repo

Because I decided 3 AM super drunk was a great time to work

John Rennie

But as a rule if you call free with an allegedly valid pointer and it crashes then either you've already freed that memory or you've managed to corrupt the heap e.g. written into invalid memory or off the end of an array.

Bernardo Meurer

@JohnRennie FWIW, take a look at utils.c line 102, freeTrip() and line 122 rmTrip_n()

John Rennie

Let me refresh my copy of the repo ...

Bernardo Meurer

freeTrip() works

What I'm trying to do now is a function that takes the head, a node, and a bool

it will remove the node from the list, and if the bool is true it will go on removing every node after it

John Rennie

Your repo must be out of date. There is no freeTrip function in utils.c

Bernardo Meurer

11:24

Yeesh

Let me see

Pushed

John Rennie

Nope. That updated text.c but utils.c remains unchanged.

Unless it's in a different branch ...

Bernardo Meurer

@JohnRennie Hmm

Weird

I did some brouhaha to change the folder name

let me see

github.com/bemeurer/prog/blob/master/bikestation/types.c#L102

github.com/bemeurer/prog/blob/master/bikestation/types.c#L122

Ah

I told you to look at the wrong file

Sorry for that John :P

John Rennie

Have you considered using:

Bernardo Meurer

Oh boy here comes magic

John Rennie

void freeTrip(trip **self) {
    if (*self == NULL) return;
    free(*self->user);
    free(*self);
    *self = NULL;
}

Just to make sure the pointer gets set to NULL once you freed the memory it's pointing at?

Bernardo Meurer

11:38

Oh, yeah, derp

Yep

Alright, fixed that

John Rennie

Just a thought - since memory mangeement in C is a prime balls ache.

Bernardo Meurer

What about rmTrip_n() ?

I'm a bit confused asto how to remove the nodes

I mean I know how to remove them from the list

But how to properly free the memory

John Rennie

Just patch up the list pointers then call freeTrip on the removed node?

user228700

@JohnRennie So it seems! :-) It's the city nearest to this village and the same one in which I wrote my exams last month.

John Rennie

    if (!node->prev)
        (node->prev)->next = node->next;
    if (!node->next)
        (node->next)->prev = node->prev;
    freeTrip(node);

@Kaumudi.H Is it somewhere you'd be allowed to go on your own, or is that a bit risky?

user228700

11:49

No, I don't think that's a possibility :-(

Kenshin

Hi everyone

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H I guess that's a shame, but that's the world we live in :-(

Kenshin

@JohnRennie suppose I have two urns

one urn has a 50% chance of containing $100 and a 50% chance of containing $0

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H To be fair there are plenty of areas of London I wouldn't want my niece going, even during the day.

Kenshin

we have no knowledge of what amount of money, if any, is in the second urn

which urn do you choose?

John Rennie

11:52

The first urn probably

Kenshin

yeah same

the result: the second urn contained $1 billion

user228700

@JohnRennie Right, right...

Kenshin

seems to be a human bias for "ambiguity aversion"

user228700

It's OK though.

Kenshin

perhaps people try to maximize the minimum possible expected return

for urn 1, the expected return is 50

for urn 2, the minimum possible expected return is 0

so we choose urn 1

was that your logic John?

user228700

11:54

@JohnR: Learning to drive the scooter, BTW! :-)

John Rennie

If I have no knowledge of the second urn I have no way of evaluating the risks involved. To choose the second urn would be, by definition, an uninformed action.

user228700

It's going great! I need a few more days' practice dealing with the accelerator that's all...

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H Isn't driving a scooter just a matter of sitting down and twisting the throttle?

@Kaumudi.H if the front wheel is still on the ground you aren't accelerating hard enough :-)

user228700

It is, yeah. The twisting the throttle bit is a bit difficult to master though, which is what I'm working on :-)

user228700

@JohnRennie :-P No, I'm good. I like having both feet (and wheels) on the ground.

John Rennie

11:58

From my distant memories of learning to ride a motorbike (about 40 years ago) making it go isn't a problem. It's judging how fast you're approaching junctions and when you need to start braking.

But that's just a matter of practice.

user228700

> But that's just a matter of practice.

user228700

Right.

Kenshin

@Kaumudi.H always wear a helmet girl

Bernardo Meurer

@JohnRennie Sorry for the sporadic comments in the discussion, on the phone with a certain someone

user228700

@Kenshin Will do...Sir :-P

John Rennie

12:02

@BernardoMeurer ooh, now you've piqued my curiousity :-)

But I have to head off now to score some lunch

Bernardo Meurer

@JohnRennie You know about it, I texted you on facebook the other day about the subject

user228700

@JohnRennie Have a nice one! :-)

John Rennie

Hmm, erm, err, hmm, is it wise to be treading old ground?

Bernardo Meurer

@JohnRennie Wise? Probably not

Yeah, that's just that

BUT

Yeah, I have no arguments lol

John Rennie

Anyway, I should confine myself to things I actually know about ... like C :-)

Did you see my code for removing the node?

Bernardo Meurer

12:04

I did, yeah :)

Kenshin

@BernardoMeurer r u on the phone to the hairbrush chick?

John Rennie

Look sensible?

Bernardo Meurer

I'll implement it shortly

@Kenshin Nope, I wish!

@JohnRennie Absolutely, yeah

Mine was far more convoluted that that

void removeTrip(trip_n **head, trip_n *node) {
    if (*head == NULL || node == NULL) return;
    if (*head == node) *head = node->next;
    if (node->next != NULL) node->next->prev = node->prev;
    if (node->prev != NULL) node->prev->next = node->next;
    free(node);
    return;
}

John Rennie

I would handle removing all nodes, i.e. truncating the list, separately because it's really a bit different.

Lakshmi Narayanan

Vedanta and Philosophy

Discuss various philosophies of Hinduism

Post your question on Hindu Philosophy here! We will try to answer those questions you've always had :D

heather

12:07

hello @Kaumudi.H

Bernardo Meurer

@JohnRennie Fair, tbh I don't even need to remove single nodes AFAIK

heather

=)

Bernardo Meurer

I don't see where I'd need it

I just figured I could bundle it together for the sake of it

Kenshin

ty @LakshmiNarayanan I'm interested in philosophy but I don't know much about Hindu, is it ok if I ask very basic questions

Lakshmi Narayanan

@Kenshin Yes! you are definitely welcome :)

John Rennie

12:08

@BernardoMeurer Well for truncating the list you just set (self->prev)->next = NULL then walk the remainder of the list calling freeTrip as you go.

Anyway, I'm off (I'm not really, I just smell that way)

Kenshin

@BernardoMeurer r u into bitcoin?

Bernardo Meurer

@Kenshin Define "into"

Kenshin

do you own bitcoin

Bernardo Meurer

Yes

Like $30

Kenshin

I see, do you have any idea why the price has doubled in the last month

is it due to wannacry in your opinion

or would you say that the doubling occurred before this event

Bernardo Meurer

12:12

Nah, Wannacry has nothing to do with this

it was legalized as a currency to use in retail in Japan

and the expectation is more Asian countries will follow

Which is causing this increase in price

Kenshin

ah i see that would explain alot

user228700

Oh hiya @heather! :-)

user228700

How's it going? Did ur vacations start?

heather

not yet - next friday's my last day

and i am very ready for summer =P

Kenshin

@heather what do you plan to do in summer?

heather

12:16

read, practice programming, math, and science, work on projects...

i guess you could really describe all that as "nerd out" =P

Kenshin

yeah sounds pretty good to me

user228700

@heather Sounds awesome! :-)

heather

yup. i love summer

user228700

Back in Chennai, it was close to 42 deg C out so me, not so much :-P

user228700

I borrowed The Giver #1 from the library, BTW!

heather

12:24

::applauds::

user228700

I'm reading another book at the moment but will get to that one when I finish this :-)

Kenshin

@Kaumudi.H there is a movie for the giver

heather

have you read any shakespeare @Kaumudi.H?

user228700

What are u planning on reading this summer? Textbooks or..?

user228700

@heather Only Julius Caesar.

user228700

12:26

@Kenshin I know, yeah :-)

heather

me? textbooks, for sure, but i'm also on a bit of a "all the classics" quest. i've already read a bunch, but top of my list is orwell (1984/Animal Farm), some more shakespeare (I've only read Hamlet and the Merchant of Venice)

user228700

Ah, classics! :-) Nice.

Bernardo Meurer

@heather Read Schopenhauer

heather

@Kaumudi.H if you want to read more, I'd recommend the "No Fear Shakespeare" copies by SparkNotes - they have the real stuff on the left and the translated-into-normal-english version on the right. It's very helpful (and on occasion very amusing)

Bernardo Meurer

Schopenhauer is OG kush

heather

12:27

@BernardoMeurer who the heck's that?

Bernardo Meurer

German philosopher that ACM doesn't like

But that I like a lot

heather

Arthur Schopenhauer

Arthur Schopenhauer (German: [ˈaɐ̯tʊɐ̯ ˈʃoːpm̩ˌhaʊ̯ɐ]; 22 February 1788 – 21 September 1860) was a German philosopher. He is best known for his 1818 work The World as Will and Representation (expanded in 1844), wherein he characterizes the phenomenal world as the product of a blind and insatiable metaphysical will. Proceeding from the transcendental idealism of Immanuel Kant, Schopenhauer developed an atheistic metaphysical and ethical system that has been described as an exemplary manifestation of philosophical pessimism, rejecting the contemporaneous post-Kantian philosophies of German idealism...

Bernardo Meurer

That fella, yeah

Kenshin

I don't trust him

heather

got some crazy hair, he does.

Kenshin

12:28

his hair is weird

user228700

I'm not a terrible fan of classics but I have enjoyed some; Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn...

Kenshin

he's wolverine's dad

heather

::gulp:: you got through Jane Eyre/Wuthering Heights!? @Kaumudi.H

how??

user228700

@heather Ooh, cool :-) There are some publishing houses that actually publish physical copies like that!

user228700

@heather :-P Eyy, they aren't too bad! I quite liked (and at times despised with a passion) both of them.

user228700

12:30

I have read other classics but they don't spring to mind hmm...

user228700

Are u on Goodreads?

heather

nope.

2

Bernardo Meurer

How to send an 'E mail' - Database - 1984

►

Pure gold

heather

@Kaumudi.H should i be?

@BernardoMeurer oh gosh...i sometimes forget there are people who have lived that long =P

Bernardo Meurer

@heather I used to have dial-up internet

I experienced the dark times

heather

12:32

my teacher tried to explain that once to me...

Bernardo Meurer

Heck I used Windows 98 and ME

Fuck

I used DOS

I am old

Mithrandir24601

@heather I much prefer seeing Shakespeare's plays over reading them...

Bernardo Meurer

:(

heather

@Mithrandir24601 seeing how that's how they're meant to be "done", makes sense =)

user228700

@heather Probably. I have my "read" and "to-read" list on there. It's also great for reviews.

heather

12:33

nice.

Mithrandir24601

@BernardoMeurer I just about remember that... Fun times...

user228700

Also, @heather: I would guess that it depends on which books can be classified as classics. Is The Catcher in The Rye a classic? If yes, then I've read that as well. About 6 times :-P

heather

yep, it is

I love that book

i just read it this year

user228700

@heather Nice! :-) What did u think of it? (Other than that u loved it, i.e)

Bernardo Meurer

I still own a laptop that runs Windows 98 lol

OG

heather

12:35

it's very pessimistic/cynical, but i appreciate that. it's an honest sort of book, if that makes sense.

people have said they find Holden annoying, but I don't get that - he's really likeable.

user228700

Yes, exactly.

heather

i love the red cap.

user228700

He was down about the state of the world but also didn't think too much of his own self, which is great and no, I too liked him and didn't find him annoying at all!

heather

yes, exactly!

such a great book.

user228700

@heather Haha, the people-hunting cap! :-) Did u read the book in school?

heather

12:39

nope, on my own. well, i mean, i may have read it under my desk once or twice. but not for school.

user228700

Ooh, nice. If u're looking to explore it in further detail, I recommend this. It's excellent.

user228700

Also, what dyou think of this T-shirt I bought for my birthday this year:

user228700

(Hehe :-D)

Bernardo Meurer

I goddamn hated that book

Cather in The Rye is for communists

Lakshmi Narayanan

12:42

@BernardoMeurer Catheter in the Rice?

Bernardo Meurer

@LakshmiNarayanan Lol, yes

Lakshmi Narayanan

@BernardoMeurer I have no idea why it is as big a deal as it is.

Bernardo Meurer

Communism or Catcher in the Rye?

Lakshmi Narayanan

@BernardoMeurer One is teen angst gone awry and the other is... wait a minute!

Bernardo Meurer

Catcher in The Rye is a big deal because Holden Caulfield is stupid, and as it so happens so is everyone between the ages of 13 and ~18. So they identify

heather

12:45

@Kaumudi.H watched both of those already =P

@BernardoMeurer ouch

Bernardo Meurer

@heather It's very true. I include myself in that group

user228700

@heather Nice! :-D U like CC?

heather

@Kaumudi.H yup =)

especially their science videos

user228700

Nice! :-D

Lakshmi Narayanan

media.giphy.com/media/2s0ouek7HJmWQ/… @BernardoMeurer

heather

12:47

i watched a lot of their lit videos as i read the books, it was really helpful.

user228700

@BernardoMeurer You realise that u are not wholly correct, right?

Bernardo Meurer

@Kaumudi.H About what exactly?

user228700

I haven't ever identified with Holden. It's an excellent book regardless of whether or not u identify with the him.

heather

oh, guess what: i'm heading to an amusement park today with a bunch of friends

it's gonna be awesome

user228700

@heather Awesome! Have fun!! :-)

heather

12:49

@BernardoMeurer Holden isn't stupid!

user228700

Besides, yes, what Heather said.

Bernardo Meurer

@Kaumudi.H You subconsciously do

heather

@Kaumudi.H and a new roller coaster may have opened at said amusement park =P

Bernardo Meurer

@heather He's a moron

heather

he is not.

he's kind of smart compared to a lot of adults i know.

besides, if you met some of the teens i knew, you wouldn't think they were all stupid =)

Secret

12:51

(Ok I finally understood): Chemistry is the science of making and understanding stuff, so it is actually quite different from physics which is understanding the rules themselves

Bernardo Meurer

@heather We can go back to this in,..., 7-6 years

user228700

@BernardoMeurer Perhaps. But he certainly isn't stupid. He is an angsty teen, yes, but there is some wisdom there.

Bernardo Meurer

If you agree with me by then you owe me $10

heather

fine, i'll give you $10 when we meet in real life if I end up agreeing with you.

user228700

@heather Haha, nice! :-)

user228700

12:54

@BernardoMeurer Again, sometimes yes. But that doesn't make him annoying. Make no mistake, I'm not in the business of loving morons but he's simply another angsty teen.

Bernardo Meurer

@Kaumudi.H My whole point is that the angst of teenagers is a peculiar form of stupidity that, usually, is cured when your hormones stop stabbing your brain

heather

if you want to pick an angsty teen idiot, go for Hamlet, not Holden.

user228700

And Salinger was able to bring out that without making it cheesy af. It's a great feat and he did it well because it is hard to capture that sort of young cynicism nicely.

user228700

@BernardoMeurer There is a difference here. This is no "Argh, my life sucks, let the world burn" sort of angst. It's the sort of existential angst that never fully leaves you; you learn to ignore it, yes, but it never goes away.

Bernardo Meurer

@Kaumudi.H Speak for yourself :)

heather

12:59

it is a different sort of angst

user228700

I speak for many many people; many fully-functioning adults, even.

Vedanta and Philosophy

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