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17:00
Soundng smart means making horrible puns?
@BernardoMeurer hmm, it runs fine here. No crash.
@JohnRennie Hmm
I get a fail on strtok
Wait whaaaat
If I just compile and run it works fine
but if I run it on the IDE it dies
I'm going to walk home and figure this out there
brb
@Slereah wot
How does one even define a scattering in Haag
Well, scattering is probably fine I guess
State that is asymptotically a gaussian state
How can one prove this
by definition.
17:15
The definition is $$196884 = s(196883)$$
With $s$ the successor operator
and $s(\cdot)=\cdot+1$.
It's not
It's $a + s(b) = s(a+b)$
Then you can show that $a + 1 = a + s(0) = s(a + 0) = s(a)$
what is $+$?
$+$ is the operator defined by what I said, as well as $a + 0 = a$
Is Death Grips stronger, or this?
(except for those dubsteps (why do dubsteps always screw things up?) this is the closest I can find for music that describe nothingness itself)
Contrary to what most people think, nothingness is neither evil nor good, nothingness is .... very .... still ...
17:21
@BernardoMeurer the file data you read in isn't null terminated, but your while loop assumes it is ...
you know what annoys me?
The standard of null terminated strings
Even though there are much better standards for it
user228700
@JohnR: Oh. My. God. They've created a server especially for Harry Potter (for the members of the Nerdfighteria Scavenger Hunt community) and I am positively freaking out.
17:47
@JohnRennie Wrong work environment :P
Hi!
In physics, are the words object and body usually interchangeable?
@JohnRennie I was reading an empty file lol
If not, what's the difference?
18:02
hello?
hell o
@Slereah how would you prove that negative mass Schwarzschild is not asymptotically flat?
Isn't it?
It is not, by the positive mass theorem.
18:06
The ADM mass of Scharzschild is $M$
So if $M$ is negative, you violate positive mass
You'd think that something going to 0 wouldn't be affected by the change of a sign
ah
you have to fail the dominant energy condition
that doesn't make much sense because it's a vacuum solution...
@Slereah ideas?
Well if you define it distributionally...
I wonder, does the usual gluing trick work on the negative mass solution?
there might be an issue with a negative log in there
Then it's $T \approx -m \delta(r) v \otimes v$
Definately violates the DEC
Yvonne, why?
what is the 42'' per century anyway
how much is that
42 seconds of arc?
any qualified person here?
18:17
$\frac{42}{360^2}^\circ$
Sorry we're all terribly unqualified
any physics master student or above?
actually, a bachelor student may also be ok
just ask
apparently, reference frames are not obligated to use a coordinate system, but then what other options could you use to specify say the position of an object?
18:18
What?
what part of the question you don't understand?
As far as I'm aware reference frames correspond to coordinate systems
from what I've been reading, reference frames are not just a coordinate system
well then what definition do they use
there are many different definitions which I've been trying to unify
18:32
lol
why do you need someone who has a master's degree to answer that
@0celouvskyopoulo7 where's the answer?
I need basically someone with a certain degree of experience, not just a person who think he/she is clever
A reference frame is a point of view. A coordinate system is an agreement on how to measure position and time.
You can have a point of view without specifying how to measure stuff, thought it makes a hash of all the mathematical tools we use in introductory physics.
Which means that you need a rather high-level view of physics and some abstract mathematical tooling to do coordinate-free physics.
I really struggled with the course on the subject I took in grad school.
I mean I guess you can define a reference frame with respect to a curve
The curve representing the observer
You can associate a set of coordinates to it
Note that the definition of "reference frame" I gave includes both inertial and non-intertial frames. But for the introductory course you want to stick with inertial frames. Really.
Is it the Fermi coordinates or the Frenet coordinates?
18:42
@nbro you seem like a real nice person (sarcasm)
You also want to stick with orthonormal coordinate systems, but the definition does not require that.
@nbro One of the nice things about the culture around Physics SE is that there is very little phallus waving about extent of educational obtainment.
We have highly respected members ranging from secondary school through end-of-career PhD scientists.
Indeed, unless you hang in chat you may never know much about the education of otehr users.
Who is the respected member with secondary school training
I want to wave my phallus
are the coordinates adapted to an arbitrary curve the Frenet coordinates?
I'm not 100% sure
19:00
@Slereah According to Yvonne, Brans-Dicke does not agree with the Shapiro effect
no, radar delay
I wonder if Saul Goodman is partly based on Jim Shapiro
He's the only lawyer that comes to mind when I think of an ambulance chaser
$$V(\vec x)=\kappa\int_T\frac{f(\vec x')dx'dy'dz'}{|\vec x-\vec x'|}$$
who the hell writes out the three measures
Also if you write the three measures
Write the three integrals, too
19:29
Is this correct $(\mathbf{m}_1\cdot\nabla)(\mathbf{m}_2\cdot\nabla)\dfrac{1}{r}=(m_{1i} \dfrac{ \partial }{\partial x_i})(m_{2j}\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_j})\dfrac{1}{r} = m_{1i}\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i}(m_{2j}\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_j}\dfrac{1}{r})$
@Lozansky sure?
Most certainly correct, although it doesn't mean much
Well
I want to arrive at $M_{ij}m_{1i}m_{2j}$ where $M_{ij}$ is the cartesian components of a tensor
Not sure how to continue
Take out $m_{2j}$ of the expression by linearity
Compute $\partial_i \partial_j r^{-1}$
That's your matrix
19:51
@0celouvskyopoulo7 What? Why?
@dmckee phallus? lol
Why do you think I was disrespectful? I simply can't understand it... I'm looking for someone with a certain degree of experience...why would that make me a phallus waving around?
no sense at all
Now, callin' me a phallus?! Isn't that also an insult?
you're not giving the example
20:07
@nbro He's saying you're waving your phallus
@0celouvskyopoulo7 which means?
@0celouvskyopoulo7 not really
in my opinion, if you got offended because I was looking for someone with a certain degree of expertise it's because you're not humble enough to admit that experience counts
Is it fair to call $GL(n,\Bbb R)$ the group of non-singular real matrices
Or is that only the representation
it's the definition
it can be represented there, which makes it a "matrix group"
20:21
Fair enough
Strictly speaking, it won't be a group. But as far as physics is concerned, I guess we don't need that much rigour
Wait, Steenrod uses both "$O_n$ the orthogonal group and $R_n$ the rotation group"
Is there a difference???
Yes.
O vs. SO
Oh, just that
I was worried for a moment
That's the problem with old timey notations
20:30
What are you reading?
What else
Steenrod's topology of fiber bundles
Liking it?
Well no, but
As is well known on this channel
it's the One Book
The only book in existence that contains the proof that compact manifolds have a Lorentzian metric only if their Euler characteristic is zero
So once in a while I read it to try to understand that proof
there's a few proofs that only exist in a single book, so if the book is not very friendly to read, it can be a hassle
Thanks, I didn't know this book
that's right
If you own any GR books on spacetime topology, odds are good that it is referenced in it
20:39
@Slereah How is that a matrix?
How is what a matrix
$\partial_i \partial_j r^{-1}$
Note the $ij$
Yeah I just don't understand how that forms a matrix?
a matrix is $(M_{ij})_{1\le i\le n,1\le j\le m}$.
20:41
Does it mean $M_{ij} = \partial_i \partial_j r^{-1}$?
@Lozansky Yes.
yes.
$M_{ij}(r)$, to be exact
Ah thanks sorry didn't realize that was convention
Since it will depend on $r$
Is that really important?
Or just to make it clearer?
20:44
Make it clearer, yes
@0celouvskyopoulo7 : Important question
In what order do you pick index names
Obviously $\mu\nu$ are the first ones
But what are the third and fourth choice
$\rho\sigma$
is it $\sigma$ or $\rho$ or $\lambda$
or $\tau$
$\mu\nu\rho\sigma\lambda$
I should write the metric as $g_{\pi\epsilon}$
Surely you should write it $g_{\delta \pi}$
Since you love the GDP so much
Why can I not see the math expressions? What's missing here?
20:47
19
A: Any chance of MathJax in chat?

Ilmari KaronenAs a workaround while this request is pending, there exist several client-side workarounds that can be used to enable LaTeX rendering in chat, including: ChatJax, a set of bookmarklets by robjohn to enable dynamic MathJax support in chat. Commonly used in the Mathematics chat room. An altern...

@Slereah hehe
gah ok
It's scary to look at the Latex code
You get used to it
I don't really need to turn it on to understand a formula
though it's a bit of a hassle to read
$\upsilon_{\sigma\alpha}$
Is $GL(n)$ a subset of $T^*M \times T^*M$
invertible $n \times n$ matrices versus $n \times n$ matrices
what is $T^*M$ supposed to be
The cotangent bundle (though I suppose it should be a fiber of it)
what manifold
Arbitrary
The fiber will always be the same, anyhow
Steenrod builds the metric as a bundle of $S_{n,k}$, the set of symmetric invertible matrices of signature $k$, but it seems weird to not make it a subset of the tensor (0,2) bundle
Well, not weird but it should be worth a mention
21:00
symmetric invertible?
that's not good enough for a metric
you need positive definite
cf "of signature $k$"
$k = 1$ for Lorentzian, $0$ for Riemannian
ohh
well there's an isomorphism $V^*\otimes V^*\approx \mathrm{Mat}$, no?
I would guess so, yes
If I'm to write Steenrod's proof I should probably rework it a bit to make it more GR-y
but he probably has a more sophisticated construction than what you're saying
because it has to be compatible with the tangent bundle somehow
also modern notations
Oh no
Grassman manifolds are involved
I still don't know what a Grassman manifold is
21:03
well of course
@Slereah the manifold of $k$-planes in $\Bbb R^n$
Oh
That makes sense
The proof seems to be to show that the bundle of metrics can be retracted on the bundle of k-planes
there has to be some obstruction theory though
"Any complex non-singular matrix $\tau$ can be factored in one and only one way into a product $\tau = \sigma \alpha$ where $\sigma$ is unitary and $\alpha$ is positive definite hermitian"
I wonder what that decomposition is for a metric
I would not trust such a decomposition to be smooth...
Apparently in such a case, $\sigma$ is an $O(n)$ matrix and $\alpha$ is a Riemannian metric
Oh wait, that's for general real matrices
Hence it defines a homeomorphisms $\text{O}(n) \times \text S(n,0) \to \text{GL}(n, \Bbb R)$
21:11
Hmm
On an open manifold, can one find a function without a critical point?
And moreso, if $\sigma \in M_{n,k}$, and $\alpha$ and $\sigma$ commute, then it is $$\text{M}_{n,k} \times \text S(n,0) \to \text{S}(n, k)$$
Which I guess is just the fancy way of expressing the usual GR thing where you can define a Lorentz metric with a Riemann metric and a vector field
0
Q: Answering "Homework-Like" Questions With Hints

JMacIt occurred to me today that I don't know what a good approach is for providing hints to homework-like questions. I cannot find any clear policy on how this should work. The example that brought it to my attention is this question. My initial reaction was to comment with a question to help poi...

"every $C^\infty$ manifold has a triangulation"
well damn son
whaaat
manifolds are too fucking hard
21:15
I mean that sounds very reasonable, but usually when I inquire about this I get the impression that no bc classification of manifolds
Or maybe not all triangulable manifolds are classifiable?
Maybe you require a nice triangulation
"It follows that every topological m-manifold, m≥7 (or m≥6 if ∂M=∅), can be triangulated if and only if there exists a PL homology 3-sphere H3 with Rohlin invariant one such that H3#H3 bounds a PL acyclic 4-manifold."
I give up right now
2topology4me
lol
We only care about $C^\infty$ manifolds.
Topological ones are pathological
good title
"It is a theorem of Whitehead, I believe, that every smooth manifold has a smooth triangulation."
Spivak references Munkres and Whitney...
I need that Whitney book
Has a lot of dead theorems
Integration on PW-$C^\infty$ sets.
@Slereah This contains the proof.
"The description for this book, Elementary Differential Topology. (AM-54), will be forthcoming."
I'm stoked
I think I'm starting to somewhat understand the Steenrod proof
I mean, I don't know the theorem he uses to prove the relation between the global sections and the contractions
I am on page 87 of Yvonne
Making progress
21:23
But the overall structure I get
She uses $V$ for spacetimes. Probably a French artifact.
Yes
I noticed they use V for Variété
I still don't understand the shell theorem in GR
Why is a shell flat inside?
Well
I recall investigating the issue a while back
I think the shell theorem in GR may not necessarily be true?
It's true for the exterior
Not necessarily for the interior
IIRC it's true under Some Condition
hmmmm
It follows from the PROOF, not the STATEMENT, of Birkhoff's theorem.
Ironic that Weinberg actually explains this.
21:31
Wait, this isn't actually like the GR thing of a riemmanian metric + some direction field
This is a product of two matrices
So slightly different
The proof is in a certain Chevalley, apparently
the Lie groups book?
"Theory of Lie groups", yes
p. 14
"Hence the set of all hermitian matrices is homeomorphic to $R^n \times C^{n(n-1)/2}$, ie also to $R^{n^2}$."
I'm not sure how this relates exactly
Oh wait, no, it's actually the next theorem
"Any regular matrix $\tau$ may be written in one and only one way as the product $\tau = \sigma \alpha$ of a unitary matrix $\sigma$ and a positive definite hermitian matrix $\alpha$"
Now the thing to prove is that if the retraction of a bundle admits a global section, the bundle admits one too
"the gravitational field of a cube"
I need to read this
Does stephani have the solution for a cubical star?
21:46
Which i am sure is the meat of Steenrod's book and is awful
As said I don't think there's any cubes in GR
Except the cube spanning the entire universe that is the FRW solution
@Slereah I think the awful thing is to show that anything admits a global section
obstruction theory just isn't nice
Well the zero section isn't too hard
The non-zero anywhere section is the hard part
ok obviously
Let's see, what part of Steenrod is that theorem even in
There was a guy who went to my school who claimed to have a very simple proof of this
I don't have his current contact info, but I could email his prof.
Or do you want to do that?
21:52
sure
would be nice
wait
> My master’s thesis research focused
on the metric structure of Lorentzian manifolds, including a simplified linear-algebraic version
of the proof that a Riemannian manifold admits a Lorentzian metric if and only if it admits
a smooth one-dimensional distribution.
That's...not the hard part....
I think it might be theorem 12.2 of Steenrod
Or somewhere in that area
although
thinking about it
That theorem may be in other places than Steenrod
Since it is less specific
So, based on the suggestions by @dmckee, here's my attempt to summarize the differences between a coordinate system and a frame of reference. Please, make me know if this definition is wrong or inconsistent with something that you know about. Also, if it's lacking of info, make me know.
Roughly speaking, a reference frame is a “point of view” and a coordinate system is an “agreement” on how to specify points, which, in a frame of reference, can assume different meanings (like position or velocity), depending on the context. {CONT}
{CONT} We can have a point of view (i.e. frame of reference) without specifying how to measure (i.e. without specifying a coordinate system) what we want to measure, but it would probably not be too useful. Hence a frame of reference (a “perspective”) can use different “agreements” (i.e. coordinate systems) on how to specify the properties of the objects
which you can use, if you want (clearly), using your physics knowledge, to investigate on the correctness on my summary
22:18
1
Q: Questions "about" vs "in" non-mainstream physics

Sam EstepIn a comment on the accepted answer to this question about non-mainstream physics, @jdm said: +1, I'd add two things: 1) Questions about non-mainstream physics should be ok, e.g. ("Have Podkletnov's antigravity experiments been independently reproduced?", "Why do we believe cold fusion can't ...

22:46
Is stackapps dead?
23:21
Dear everyone,
SHOW DATA IN YOUR PAPERS
That is all.
How does one show data in a theory paper
Data in theory paper are usually tables of some computered quantity of interest
23:44
>using numerical simulations in a theory paper
Very poor taste

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