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17:00
I think the point is an important class of Hilbert spaces are space of functions
So, yeah, historical reasons like ACM said
@BalarkaSen Duck tape??
Takes deep breath
user228700
@JohnRennie Bet that aroused your curiosity, didn't it? (:-P)
@JohnRennie I hear it's also called that...
Presumably it's for immobilising aggressive ducks
17:01
> Duct tape,[1] sometimes called duck tape, is cloth- or scrim-backed pressure-sensitive tape, often coated with polyethylene. There are a variety of constructions using different backings and adhesives. One variation is black gaffer tape, which is designed to be non-reflective and cleanly removed, unlike standard duct tape. Another variation is heat-resistant foil (not cloth) duct tape useful for sealing heating and cooling ducts, produced because standard duct tape fails quickly when used on heating ducts. Duct tape is generally silvery gray, but also available in other colors and even pr
it does called DUCK TAPE
user228700
Nice. The new thing I learned from this place today is that duck tape is the same thing as duct tape.
@JohnRennie yes, duck
Speaking of immobilisation...
Immobilises @Kau, drags @Kau to The Periodic Table
17:02
i told you i wished i could speak english
user228700
@paracresol Pe! I'm staying.
The k is silent
Well, well, the things you learn in the Physics chat.
user228700
@JohnRennie Ikr?! What's for lunch, BTW?
BTW that will do it for our official chat session today (though feel free to hang around). See everyone in two weeks!
Well, maybe - I'm not sure if I can make it to the next one
17:04
Disappointingly it apparently derives from the Dutch word for linen and is unrelated to its use in securing ducks.
This was a chat session?
4
user228700
^
@0celouvsky That depends on what you have given - it's a bit weird to show it is "closed under substraction" unless what you have is a subset of a group
@BalarkaSen yes, it was, same time it's always scheduled. We didn't have much on the agenda though.
user228700
@JohnRennie Why would one need to immobilize ducks though?
17:05
Except duck tapes you mean
@ACuriousMind yeah I'm not sure. It's just the sections of the sheaf, which should be trivially a group
But he says specifically that s-t is also a section
So I'm not really sure why he did that
@Kaumudi.H So they don't run away?
Stealthy criminals, those ducks
user228700
Ah, geez, I hadn't considered that they might be in need of...frying and such things :-|
why did the duck cross the road?
It didn't, Balarka Sen had wrapped it in tape.
3
He might be worried about continuity, come to think of it
17:07
woo! My accomplishment today is that I found an important typo in a paper written by my PhD advisor 17 years ago :P
@JohnR I'd rather study the trivial duck bundle over the road instead of the tedious process of capturing it and wrapping it up in tape
user228700
If all this really was part of the chat session, then it's been the best one so far :-P
It wasn't a homework policy frenzy
So that's a win
@BalarkaSen What do you get if you cross a citrus fruit with a bull? - The trivial lime bundle on the taurus.
2
That's probably my favorite.
vzn
vzn
17:08
@BenNiehoff (congrats!) trying to remember were you in NY? new exhibition at Met on math + physics
@BenNiehoff Good job! Now back to work.
Racist^
no, I'm not in NY
user228700
Ah, while all of u are here, I'd like to ask something: vzn had been suggesting that I do the next A.M.A but really, how many of you would be interested in something like that?
@BalarkaSen Maybe duck tape attracts ducks so it wouldn't be tedious. Perhaps it's smeared in...ducknip?
17:10
Why would you do an AMA?
Can I post things here?
a wise man once said "do whatever you want"
(There's got to be an equivalent to catnip for ducks, right?)
how interesting you are entirely depends on how you answer the questions, doesn't it?
Anonymous
17:10
@Kaumudi.H Just don't speak about JEE!
user228700
@0celouvsky Ask @vzn.
@JohnR Could you take a good look at that^^^?
vzn
vzn
@Kaumudi.H thx for your response, it does seem like enthusiasm for the whole prj may have faded :( plz dont take it personally think youd make great guest :) ... am very disappointed you are not getting support from some regulars on that :(
@a_sid Apparently you can.
@paracresol OK ... and?
17:11
0
Q: How does a electric quadrupole oscillate?

Zhijie MaI know that in static a electric quadrupole is made of two positive charges and two negative charges, distributed as in http://d2vlcm61l7u1fs.cloudfront.net/media%2Fc2d%2Fc2d4c4de-d79e-4ed1-a7e4-c80f7564adde%2FphphTVHIG.png. What I don't understand is when it oscillates and radiates, does it osci...

user228700
@vzn :-) Nah. I didn't think that very many people would be interested anyway so I am not at all disappointed.
Anonymous
@vzn Actually I would be interested.
honestly I'm not sure I see the point of doing an AMA in a chatroom...we already ask each other things about our lives
(That PSE) It's a donut, and it goes round and rooooouuuunnnddd
@JohnRennie Is that relation the same as the first one here?
17:12
(Sorry I get drunk whenever I saw something rooooouuunnndd)
vzn
vzn
@BenNiehoff the rationale is similar to the biweekly meetings: to get a group together.
@paracresol yes
vzn
vzn
@Kaumudi.H last one was heathers which think went well. but its hard to sustain without some energy by others, do feel like am carrying entire load lately... original idea was DZs but seems even he's not even lukewarm on it any more :(
@JohnRennie But L ^2 is an operator, right? So why was the wave function omitted in the hyperphysics equation?
meh i don't like being on the starboard much
user228700
17:14
@blue Why? :-P You're in the same time-zone as me, na? You can ask me questions at any time of day.
^ @blue Piece of advice? Don't
@BenNiehoff Oh, we had one with @DanielSank that attracted quite a lot of non-regulars since he promised to talk about quantum computing and other stuff. An hour of focused talking with one person is a bit different from the usual free-for-all that goes on in chat
@BalarkaSen why do you even hang out here
vzn
vzn
@paracresol huh? dont what?
Anonymous
@paracresol Why, only you have the exclusive right to flirt =P
17:15
@0celo i don't even know man
I originally thought of these AMAs as a means to draw more non-regulars
user228700
Ah, @para is back at it again! I was afraid this would happen...
@blue That isn't what I meant >_<
i should ban myself out of here. h bar is like a sentinent blackhole of productivity
9
@BalarkaSen That's a risk you take when hanging out here :P
17:15
Well, it does drew more non regulars, but not the significant degree we expct
@paracresol The eigenfunctions of the operator $\hat{L}^2$ have the eigenvalues $L^2$.
should i say wormhole?
user228700
@vzn Hmm. It's OK :-) I hope you're able to find someone truly interesting to whom others want to ask questions.
Wait...Hey! I'm not flirting with anyone! Especially not with him! (points at @Kau)
@JohnRennie Broods
17:16
@BalarkaSen It's beautiful, isn't it? :P
Indian romance
Anonymous
@BalarkaSen I once asked ACuriousMind to ban me. He didn't. So the only way would be to do something disastrous....!
Can we have a bollywood
@paracresol 'him'?
Anonymous
@0celouvsky That's crap (Though I enjoy crap once in a while)....
vzn
vzn
17:16
@Kaumudi.H lol you were it :) ... thx for your interest/ response
@0celouvsky ಠ_ಠ
@blue takes one to know one
@paracresol So it's corretc to write $\hat{L}^2\Psi = \ell(\ell+1)\hbar^2\Psi$
^ Roger that!
@BalarkaSen just post some pictures from /b/
user228700
17:17
@ACuriousMind Don't mind him. He likes to pretend that I'm a guy from time to time and then he will flirt with me for a minute or two before rushing to declare that he is completely straight.
And it's also correct to write $L^2 = \ell(\ell+1)\hbar^2$ where $L^2$ is the eigenvalue so it is just a number.
@Kaumudi.H Oh, you picked up a pattern? ;)
@JohnRennie Wait...
Lost again
@0celo Too hardcore
user228700
@paracresol :-( Please don't ruin The h Bar for me.
Gimme a minute, please.
sighs
Steers clear of @Kau
17:19
@Kaumudi.H what
I don't understand you people
Do you love each other or not
> Anything is infinite compared to koolman, therefore it will be fine
I'm terrible at flirting. Always have been :\
@Kaumudi.H If you don't mind then neither will I, but I consider calling you "he/him" when you are obviously female pretty disrespectful
Shoots @0celo
user228700
@ACuriousMind I've tried before but there seems to be something wrong with his understanding of this matter. What to do...
17:20
I am also terrible at recognizing which Indian names are male or female!
@ACuriousMind Wha....
ignore
ez solution to every trouble on earth
user228700
@0celouvsky Gah! >.< No! Geez.
17:21
Either I've been taking stronger psychedelics than usual or this chat room has become very strange.
user228700
I know him from The Periodic Table.
^^ The former latter
@JohnRennie Everybody's on higher doses of LSD
@Kaumudi.H If you have asked him to stop and he didn't then I'll be happy to ensure @paracresol does not do that in here.
17:22
@ACuriousMind ...
user228700
@JohnRennie It's because @para has come over here to insult me some more :-(
Someone has slipped LSD into the CAT5 cabling ...
@AccidentalFourierTransform Oh... Hi...
Dejected look
user228700
17:23
@para: What to do? I don't understand your spectacularly weird sense of humor, if that is what this is.
-______-
@paracresol I'm serious. Currently I can't quite tell if this is mutual joking or not, but if she does not find it funny and you continue then you should stop. Period.
I keep reading your name as paracetamol
quite appropriate too
@ACuriousMind I had more than one sheaf question!
17:24
@JohnRennie A bit of both, I guess
this is giving me a headache
user228700
@ACuriousMind It's certainly not mutual. I don't appreciate it or anything but I've decided to tune it out so it doesn't offend me either; I've had some time to get used to this at The Periodic Table, you see.
yeah, jokes about menstruation just aren't funny. Period.
i'm gonna go back to listening to these utterly unhinged people
17:25
@0celouvsky "help, presheaf of modules makes no sense" is not a question ;P
@ACuriousMind Acknowledges ACM
Anonymous
@AccidentalFourierTransform What's going on here? ....:P
@JohnR Need quick confirmation: Solutions to the Schrödinger equation are eigenfunctions and their associated energies are eigenvalues.
@Kaumudi.H You shouldn't need to "tune it out", and you shouldn't "get used" to that, either. Habitually (as opposed to one-off remarks) making fun of another user when they do not appreciate it is a rather clear breach of the Be Nice policy in my view and should not be tolerated.
^ Sighs
17:28
@paracresol The time independent SE is $$\hat{H}\Psi = E\Psi$$
Yeah...
So the functions $\Psi$ are the eigenfunctions of $\hat{H}$ and $E$ is the eigenvalue.
you can also rewrite it as $\Psi\Psi=\hat H E$, so that $\Psi$ is both the operator and the eigenfunction
If you know what eigenstuff means you also should have been able to answer it yourself
and $\hat H$ becomes the eigenvalue
user228700
17:30
@ACuriousMind I understand. I've just come to accept that he has a weird (af) sense of humor and decided to ignore his absurd remarks. Besides, there is nothing else I can do. I've tried to understand it but to no avail.
Re-reads
^^ And I've officially become her scapegoat...
He has a crush on you but lacks the social skills to tell you
This is not humor, this is childishness.
@0celouvsky Sighs louder
17:31
@paracresol How would you feel if I followed you around to make disparaging remarks about you? Show some empathy, here. "sigh" is not exactly the reply I was hoping for.
@BalarkaSen you've only just spotted that?
@ACuriousMind Apology?
@BalarkaSen your comments are r/Iamverysmart material.
except for "eigenstuff", I like that
@0celouvsky I am the very model of weird reddits. What can I say?
17:32
@ACuriousMind I'd feel terrible, actually...
$\Psi$
user228700
@paracresol My scapegoat? Right, this is about the time I decide to ignore you instead of attempting to understand.
Nooo
Stop fighting
At the risk of talking about physics, I wonder if I should make the effort to answer this:
-9
Q: Does relativity hold in the dark?

Gowtham ChowdaryI will start with a very often used example to explain the theory of relativity of Einstein, we consider 2 pair mirrors, one will be stationary and the other will be in motion. There will be a light ray in between them. As the mirror moves, the light ray travels more distance from one mirror to t...

17:33
2 mins ago, by paracresol
^^ And I've officially become her scapegoat...
user228700
Man, I was hoping this wouldn't happen here when you came over here this morning.
You missed it ;)
The pronoun, that is...
user228700
Ah. Of course. I'm a he, not a she. Sigh.
@paracresol: congratulations, you've just earned your first (1 minute) suspension. It will be increased if necessary.
@JohnRennie WTH??
@ACuriousMind :/
17:35
In an ideal world you will stop harrassing other users.
It accurately describes my state of being
one minute?
alas, world is hard
quick, let's talk about something exciting so he misses out!
@BenNiehoff So, what typo did you find?
17:36
@BenNiehoff I used a kickmute. The first kick lasts 60s but the length of the suspension increases with subsequent kicks.
so, there are these things called "uplift formulae"
let's talk about exciting things we can do in under a minute
@0celouvsky "Strength lies in attack, not defense"... said someone I don't really remember ._.
which allow you to do the opposite of a "consistent truncation"
@JohnRennie ...
17:37
@JohnRennie It's not a suspension, technically, since the user is just barred from this one room.
a consistent truncation is when you start in some higher-dimensional SUGRA theory, assume some isometries (especially on spheres), and reduce to a lower-dimensional theory
the case in question is a reduction from IIB to 5d gauged SUGRA
I faintly recall reading about truncations
we did that in classical point-particle mechanics
"consistent truncation" means that the equations of motion close using only the modes you've turned on
rotational symmetry -> effective 1D problem
17:38
@BenNiehoff Gee, that was thoughtful :3
user228700
@JohnRennie Thank you :-) @para: I've decided to completely ignore your comments about me. Thanks to the kindly folk over here, I've realised that I shouldn't put up with your weird sense of humor if it comes packaged in these absurd (af) comments.
@0celo7 If I have a negatively curved manifold, is the exponential map a diffeomorphism?
anyway, an "uplift" is doing the opposite: taking a 5d solution, which you know beforehand sits within a consistent truncation, and lifting it to a 10d solution
@BalarkaSen You need completeness
Ah, yes, fair enough.
17:39
Then it is, yeah. For specifics check out the Cartan-Hadamard theorem
You need simply connected as well
these uplift formulae are quite non-trivial and difficult to find, I guess
@BenNiehoff Is that 1:1 or can only certain solutions be uplifted?
But in any case you get that the universal cover is R^n
for example, lifting 5d gauged SUGRA to IIB requires exponentiating a 27x27 matrix of E6
@0celouvsky Sorry, what I meant to say is if that is a covering map.
17:40
@ACuriousMind Only solutions which are contained within a consistent truncation can be lifted
that is the point of consistent truncations
The I believe I answered your question anyway
so, e.g., various metric modes of the higher-d theory might organize themselves as scalars and vectors in the lower-d theory
Yah; just googled Cartan-Hadamard.
as long as only those scalars and vectors are turned on, you can lift them back to 10d
user228700
@JohnRennie "Than usual"? Who are you?!
17:42
so anyway, the typo was that the metric uplift was wrong
@Kaumudi.H well caffeine is a psychedelic, and I drink coffee ...
Feb 12 at 11:25, by John Rennie
I spent 99% of my money on drugs and laptops - the remaining 1% I wasted
Funny. I was envisioning hyperbolic manifolds as quotients of H^n and came to the guess about exp using that. It seems that's precisely the proof that hyperbolic manifolds are quotients of H^n
@ACuriousMind :-)
user228700
Ah, yes. Loads of it too! :-)
17:43
in order to get the correct 10d metric, I had to do a bunch of annoying crap with an E6 group element in the 27 rep
but the worst part was inverting a 5x5 matrix
use cocaine, not caffeine
@JohnR If s is "sharp", p is "principal", d is "diffused and f is "fundamental" ... then what's g? (Assuming I'm no longer Persona non grata here)
because the uplift formula gives you the inverse metric
@BenNiehoff That's...doable by hand :P
17:44
@paracresol after f, they just go in alphabetical order
Great!
@paracresol No idea to be honest. Doesn't that nice Mr Google know?
@ACuriousMind The trick is to invert the matrix in a useable way
@BenNiehoff That's also...kind of anti-climatic though ._.
by the way, Mathematica couldn't do it after running for several minutes
17:44
@BalarkaSen if you're interested in Riemannian coverings, the book by Wolf has a bunch of information about them. The whole book is basically working out covering maps
so how did you do it?
maple?
I'm simplifying and haven't read the whole thing :P
@JohnRennie He was nice?
oh, and the other problem is, it's a 5x5 matrix written in a 6x6 basis...so actually, it's a 6x6 matrix with one zero eigenvalue
@AccidentalFourierTransform I did it by hand, by figuring out how to organize things and making an ansatz
17:45
I should learn Riemannian geometry before Riemannian coverings I guess
Ive seen Nobel prizes awarded for less
there's a trick where you can write the metric for a sphere in Cartesian coordinates, as long as you remember to impose the constraint $\sum_i x_i^2 = 1$
Btw the cartan hadamard theorem has many different proofs
that kind of trick is being used here
Quite interesting
17:47
except the metric isn't a round sphere anymore
user228700
I'm off. Bye, everyone! :-)
@0celouvsky Trying to understand it for surfaces.
@BalarkaSen you would like the Morse proof
17:49
Grudgingly bids her farewell
Tschüss @Kau o/
I mean it's easy for surfaces because of uniformization but that's not what I want.
I don't claim to remember how it goes, but Morse theory is generally neat
Ah, there's a Morse theory proof?
But yes, I did literally spend about two weeks of my time inverting a 5x5 matrix :P
Yes
It's in Milnor
Chapter 19-ish
17:50
Ah, light bulb. Why did I never try to read Riemannian geometry from Milnor's red book?
It's quick and short and perfect to get myself out of the productivity rut
Because it's far too terse and only a small sliver of RG?
Oh wait, back to azimuthal Q-numbers being integers, @JohnR could you have a quick look at the end of this section?
The azimuthal quantum number is a quantum number for an atomic orbital that determines its orbital angular momentum and describes the shape of the orbital. The azimuthal quantum number is the second of a set of quantum numbers which describe the unique quantum state of an electron (the others being the principal quantum number, following spectroscopic notation, the magnetic quantum number, and the spin quantum number). It is also known as the orbital angular momentum quantum number, orbital quantum number or second quantum number, and is symbolized as ℓ. == Derivation == Connected with the energy...
It's good motivation though
I like Milnor's writing
@BenNiehoff Sounds fun ;)
@paracresol Yes?
17:52
@ACuriousMind As many calculations go, it was very frustrating and took many pages, and then suddenly everything fell together and the result is two lines
sorry, that means that the result is wrong
there is a theorem that says that the inverse of a 5x5 matrix is at least three lines long
^ But those aren't integers ._.
@AccidentalFourierTransform Actually, it should be about five lines...
Anonymous
@paracresol $L$ is not $\ell$
$L=\sqrt{\ell(\ell+1)}$
17:55
You are mixing up the quantum number $\ell$ with the angular momentum $L$.
Anonymous
^
@ACuriousMind no, that is for full-rank matrices
my theorem is stronger
That's three of you telling me the same thing at once...wow
Anonymous
@AccidentalFourierTransform You missed the hbar there on purpose, or did you leave it as it is already written on the right top of the web-page? =P
@AccidentalFourierTransform Let's not enter into a theorem-measuring contest, here
17:56
@blue $\hbar=1$
@blue $\hbar = 1$ in real physics :P
@blue $\hbar = 1$ dolt!
Anonymous
My gosh
Anonymous
Too many people at once
Anonymous
17:56
lol
units schmunits
well, that was unanimous
I see, thank you. @JohnR @Accidental @blue
Any time you want a second and third opinion let us know :-)
17:57
o/
@ACuriousMind Ahhhhh the wonders of working in a buzz-field...
I'm back
@Danu \o
@ACuriousMind I mean the line element is 2 lines long
@Danu You were gone? :P
17:58
@DanielSank ...from the Greek islands!!
@ACuriousMind I haven't been in chat for about 10 days :P
he's a mathematician now
In other news, tomorrow's an exam and I haven't studied yet
Cheerio @JohnR o/
yikes
Symplectic Geometry how do I
Tschüss @Accident o/
17:59
@Danu What the hell are you doing here, then? :P
@paracresol Bye
Yo, does turning off the sound notifications not work for anyone else?
Why would I try to turn that heavenly sound off?
17:59
It does not not work for me.

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