The h Bar

Danu

21:00

Beat this: Identity in a Global City

(qualitative anthropology; MANDATORY COURSE for all students)

Later renamed to: The Global Identity Experience (I kid you not)

dmckee

@DanielSank If used to crush the souls of a bunch of students who came to Santa Barbara for the party atmosphere. They'd sign up with their buddies without noticing that it was an upper-division course with a term-paper.

Bernard Meurer

@dmckee UCSB: University of Casual Sex and Beer

dmckee

UCSB: U Can Study Buzzed.

Bernard Meurer

lol

DanielSank

@Danu >:(

Emilio Pisanty

21:03

↑ daf**?

DanielSank

@EmilioPisanty wut?

Bernard Meurer

@EmilioPisanty You do realize you forgot to blur the tab text right?

DanielSank

@dmckee That's funny.

Bernard Meurer

Lol, all that privacy work for nothing

Emilio Pisanty

@BernardMeurer dammit

Danu

21:04

@BernardMeurer d'oh

3075

@BernardMeurer Do you know what I recommend you do right now?

DanielSank

@EmilioPisanty I don't think any of your great secrets were revealed.

Worry not.

Danu

10 out of 10

3075

To increase your chances of waterloo.

Bernard Meurer

@3075 Cry?

Emilio Pisanty

21:04

Danu

@dmckee ohhhh shit

that just reminded me, I was planning to drink some beer tonight!!

Bernard Meurer

@EmilioPisanty I always knew you were going to the colorado derby

Danu

Thanks :D

3075

@BernardMeurer Login in OUAC and apply for waterloo physics co-op. They're still accepting applications.

It makes sense to apply to physics since you want to do quantum computing.

Bernard Meurer

@3075 That's actually a good idea

bomb diggity my friend

3075

21:07

Physics has 75-85 average compared to 90+ for compsci.

If they accept you, you can always change to CE in second year as long as you have 70% gpa I think.

Bernard Meurer

@3075 Why Co-Op? Regular is still open too innit?

3075

@BernardMeurer Do regular if you want, it's easier to get in.

ACuriousMind

@Danu You "were planning"? Do you write "drink beer" into your calendar or something?

0celo7

$\curverightarrow$

wtf

DanielSank

@ACuriousMind Doesn't need to. Dutch.

Bernard Meurer

21:08

Dude if this saves my ass I'm going to be in so much debt with you I'll cry

Danu

@ACuriousMind It doesn't happen often nowadays :(

0celo7

$\curvearrowright$

Danu

Also I don't have a calendar

Bernard Meurer

Alright I picked materials and nanoscience specialty

DanielSank

"Drink beer" is an auto-recurring item on his bio-calendar.

Danu

21:09

Lol 0celo7

0celo7

Yeah, never seen that

Bernard Meurer

bomb ass

3075

@BernardMeurer Do Physical sciences, physics specialty. regular.

Bernard Meurer

@3075 Just physics?

Danu

@DanielSank Whisky more like it ;)

DanielSank

21:09

@Danu I am corrected.

ACuriousMind

@DanielSank the Dutch are not particularly known to be drinkers of beer here in Germany :P

3075

:29849871: Do Physical sciences, physics specialty. regular.

Bernard Meurer

@3075 Why? (just curious, already changed)

Danu

@ACuriousMind And vice versa!

3075

Because it's easier

Danu

21:10

(except Oktoberfest)

3075

@BernardMeurer are you done?

Bernard Meurer

@3075 Done

3075

Did you save changes?

And make it your first choice.

Bernard Meurer

@3075 Dang it it won't let me make it my first

3075

@BernardMeurer It's ok.

Bernard Meurer

21:12

But yeah It's done, it'll update in 1 business day

3075

Ok.

Now you should e-mail the science admissions.

Obliv

@alexclark hey what are you studying? Kind of cool a dude all the way in australia listens/knows of mick jenkins haha

kevin Tah N.

hey dudes

3075

@BernardMeurer And explain to them your situation, and your research interests and how important it is for you to get into physics.

Obliv

sup @kevin

Bernard Meurer

21:13

@3075 Really? You think that's a good idea? Who do I email?

3075

@BernardMeurer Email her

kevin Tah N.

@Obliv not much just hanging out

3075

@BernardMeurer And make sure you do it nicely... "Dear ...."

DanielSank

@ACuriousMind Good point.

3075

@BernardMeurer make sure to mention quantum computing and how you're into both cs and physics.

Bernard Meurer

21:15

@3075 I'm a very good letter writer, so I guess that I got going for me

@3075 Alright, alright, it'll be my magnum opus

@DanielSank Do you think QC will be da bomb in logistical optimization someday?

3075

Also beg them kind of, knowing how late your are and stuff.

make sure they know how important it is for you.

DanielSank

@BernardMeurer It's too early to tell.

Bernard Meurer

@DanielSank I was thinking about that, it's a cool application for it

Obliv

uh what would $D_4$ be the dihedral group of? assuming it's in the notation $D_{2n}$ isn't that a shape with 2 vertices..? aka a line?

Bernard Meurer

@3075 I got this, I'll do my best :)

Emilio Pisanty

21:17

@Danu Thanks for the help, I'll update you tomorrow.

Danu

@Obliv Dihedral group needs no (of X) AFAIK.

@EmilioPisanty No problem :) Good luck <3

3075

@BernardMeurer I am 99% sure you're screwed for compsci admissions (it's wayy full by now), so your physics application will be your final hope.

Good luck :)

Bernard Meurer

@3075 You're literally an angel mate, thanks a lot!

Obliv

@danu what do you mean needs no (of X)?

Danu

@Obliv The dihedral group of given order needs no further qualifications.

Obliv

21:19

ah I see

3075

@BernardMeurer If you get in, we'll be in the same program and you'll owe me 3 iced coffees. xD

Bernard Meurer

@3075 If I wind up there I'll owe you my soul hahahaha

3 coffees is easy

3075

@BernardMeurer Include your waterloo id# in your e-mail.

and OUAC reference #.

and full name.

Bernard Meurer

@3075 Alright, will do :)

3075

@BernardMeurer finally, you should still call them tomorrow, explain everything you said before, and ask if they can at least give you physics.

Bernard Meurer

21:25

I'll buy one of those advertisement advertisement planes and fly around Waterloo

3075

@BernardMeurer Redo your aif and include some physics stuff in there as well, also why you want to apply to the physics program. (should be required)

I have to leave now bye.

Bernard Meurer

@3075 My AIF already has some physics stuff, but I'll review it

@3075 See ya! I'll tell you how it goes tomorrow on the phone with them. Thanks for all the help as usual!

DanielSank

@vzn How goes the AMA thing?

vzn

21:45

@DanielSank @#%& >:(

Danu

lol

@vzn I didn't really get to see the full conversation regarding that: What is the plan? The same as reddit AMA's?

vzn

@Danu we had a long discussion in the chat room. seemed to get consensus with DS/ DZ. did work on it, posted chat ad, we got +4 but then back to +3, presumably -1 from EP. there is (now) recorded resistance by EP. & DS support of EP is not helping... the chat ad is not a place for discussion :(

0celo7

transferring data from old 3DS to the new one is killing me

11 years of pokemon data hangs in the balance

Danu

@vzn Summary of the long discussion, perhaps?

vzn

@Danu summary, DS agrees to be 1st guest but not a time, wanted the chat ad 1st, partly for long lead time to help promote the guest via ad(s), he contributed the design, DS + DZ want it to be generic, which it is. DZ says intermittent use of the current room mtg for the guest speaker (series) is ok. etc

told DS the guest speaker ad would not easily achieve +6 and would likely need lobbying...

Danu

21:55

So why is EP against it?

vzn

@Danu he wants to shoot it down in the ad comments & not discuss it in the chat room... so far it seems hes Mr Physics Community Ad Mgr.

Danu

You don't seem very open to criticism.

vzn

← did not realize there were already so many community ads for this site etc

0celo7

EP?

vzn

@Danu what criticism in particular? EP hasnt participated in the current discussion and criticizes without participating/ supporting. Emilio Pisanty

Danu

21:57

@0celo7 Emilio Pisanty

@vzn He makes good points in the comments.

vzn

@Danu what point in particular do you think has not already been addressed that needs to be addressed? and isnt it all better discussed in the chat room? immediately invited him here, he prefers to stay in the more open/ public area & shoot it down, and doesnt acknowledge DZs (mod!) participation/ support already :(

Danu

There is no point in having an ad for something that may well not ever take place.

vzn

@Danu DS wanted/ insisted on the ad 1st before committing to a time slot

Danu

Also the concept of AMA is not known to most people.

ACuriousMind

@vzn Discussions are what meta is for. Why would the debate about the community ad be better placed in a chat room?

vzn

22:01

the ad doubles as a pointer to the chat room while the guest(s) are being "nailed down"

0celo7

@Danu ask me anything?

Danu

@0celo7 yup

ACuriousMind

@vzn Also, what is there to "acknowledge" about "DZs (mod!) support"? Moderator's opinions are in no way binding for anyone.

Danu

Also, I'm not sure we're looking for something similar to a reddit AMA

0celo7

IT WORKS

vzn

22:02

@Danu DS called it an AMA in the ad/ elsewhere. myself, put on the words "special guest speaker(s)"

Danu

I, for one, would not be interested in that kind of stuff.

0celo7

@Danu you're mean tho

Danu

@vzn Well, not in the ad.

vzn

@ACuriousMind lol, a bit ridiculous

Danu

I'd prefer something more in-depth/technical than the reddit stuff.

ACuriousMind

22:02

@vzn And what, exactly, is ridiculous about that?

Danu

@vzn ?

vzn

@Danu it is (still) open to evolution/ suggestions/ support etc.

Danu

I think you need to have a clearer plan before trying to move forward with this. It all seems rather premature.

That's essentially also part of what EP was saying.

vzn

@ACuriousMind mods have many unilateral powers on the site that are nearly entirely binding in many cases. can we not have this debate?

Danu

@vzn Their opinions have nothing to do with their moderation powers, per se.

ACuriousMind

22:04

@vzn The moderators' powers are rather specific in what they can and can not do. And their powers do not grant their opinions any more weight.

vzn

@Danu do not want to get bogged down in endless discussions when the infrastructure to pull this off is already available immediately. if it were me alone, would not have even done the chat ad for the 1st session.

@Danu lol, again rather ridiculous :(

David Z

@ACuriousMind yeah, that. What I said about the chat guests didn't have anything to do with me being a moderator.

vzn

hi DZ.

Danu

@vzn No, I should know because I, too, am a moderator.

vzn

@Danu yes am well aware of that dude

Danu

22:07

Also note David's response.

vzn

← listening, am all ears

ACuriousMind

@vzn The ridiculous thing here is that you seem to demand that everyone must agree with your half-baked plan. You have not answered a single one of Emilio's concerns, and yet talk about "getting bogged down in discussions".

vzn

@Danu plz clarify. you seem to dislike reddit AMA for some reason

@ACuriousMind "half-baked" is not respectful. had already achieved substantial consensus with key players at considerable time expense before EPs criticism :(

David Z

@ACuriousMind ooh, harsh words. (Not saying you don't have a point though.)

DanielSank

@vzn That is an absurd description of what's going on.

vzn, you need to adjust your attitude about this whole thing, now, before it causes the whole idea to collapse.

People are trying to help you.

Danu

22:11

I think you might need to just take a step back and reconsider if you think all of us are being ridiculous @vzn

0celo7

Absurd!

Wow!

Danu

...what, @0celo7?

0celo7

@vzn can I be the objective third party?

@Danu things are getting heated

I'm exited now

What's going on?

Danu

@0celo7 I don't think so.

DanielSank

8 mins ago, by Danu

I think you need to have a clearer plan before trying to move forward with this. It all seems rather premature.

^ This.

ACuriousMind

22:12

@vzn And how many people did this "consensus" include?

DanielSank

A thousand times this.

Danu

Hey, DS agreeing with me

Noting it down ;)

DanielSank

@Danu Yes, you are saying exactly what's in my mind.

Thank you.

vzn

@DanielSank CRITICISM ≠ HELP

0celo7

@Danu 49% agreement is not agreement ;)

Danu

22:13

Also @DanielSank I recently discovered the awesomeness of baked fruits.

Do you agree?

DanielSank

@vzn False. False. False.

ACuriousMind

And yes, "half-baked" is not respectful, but it's not respectful to call what other people say "ridiculous", either, so I don't feel bad about that one.

dmckee

@vzn Uhm. Sometimes it is exactly that.

DanielSank

@Danu Hmmmm, not much experience with that.

Baked peaches are delicious.

Danu

Baked blueberries

12/10

So much better than raw ones

DanielSank

22:13

@Danu I'll try it!

0celo7

how does one bake a fruit

Danu

@DanielSank Peaches ain't in season here (yet)...

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 By heating it.

Danu

@0celo7 Put in oven

Wait

???

Profit

DanielSank

@Danu I had ravioli the other day which involved grilled strawberries. That was very good.

dmckee

22:14

Of course, people will sometime take the bit in their teeth, but the person offering advice can't be held to account for advice not taken.

Danu

@DanielSank I've got a mix of blueberries, strawberries and rhubarb right now :)

vzn

@DanielSank where is that ad you said you would cook up on wknd?

0celo7

@Danu see even you don't know

Danu

@0celo7 The magic of oven

DanielSank

@0celo7 hahahaha, good one

0celo7

22:15

@DanielSank currently downloading Ocarina of Time to my 3DS

about to get Super Metroid

should I be pumped for it

DanielSank

@0celo7 Both excellent games.

0celo7

I've played OoT many many times

vzn

@DanielSank how can EP know the "clarity of the plan" when hes done virtually nothing to discover it? sounds a bit like a projection

DanielSank

@vzn You mean the one I said I might cook up? I didn't do it.

ACuriousMind

@vzn That he doesn't know it rather indicates that you have done nothing to present it.

vzn

22:16

@DanielSank lol yeah just like you might be the 1st speaker, wink

DanielSank

@vzn I don't know what you mean, but I agree with EP's general statement that we ought to do some better prep work before pulling the trigger on this whole thing.

0celo7

what the heck are you guys talking about

vzn

@ACuriousMind am not going to write it up in latex and post a pdf

DanielSank

@vzn Gee, that's too bad.

vzn

@DanielSank we can prepare the whole rest of the year, and schedule it for 2017, how about that? is that enough time?

David Z

22:17

I'm taking off, please don't blow up the room as soon as I leave :-P lol

DanielSank

A statement of purpose is usually an excellent starting point.

ACuriousMind

Just typing it up in some form would be enough

DanielSank

^ That

ACuriousMind

@DavidZ ::lights fuse::

vzn

@DanielSank you put the words AMA in the ad. sounds like a statement of purpose

DanielSank

22:17

@vzn I'm not going to converse with you if you insist of sarcasm.

0celo7

@ACuriousMind you're probably on a list now

David Z

@ACuriousMind (meta posts perhaps)

DanielSank

^ Yes

vzn

@DanielSank why did you interpret that as sarcasm? dont know your/ EPs time frame only that am more impatient than you are.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 A mod list or an NSA list or some other list?

0celo7

22:18

@ACuriousMind yes, NSA

ACuriousMind

'kay

vzn

@ACuriousMind we typed it all up in chat. this little )( prj has already cost me probably hours

DanielSank

@vzn Write a statement of purpose. Explain why you want to do this at all, e.g. how is it different from reddit AMA's? Post it in meta. Pay attention to feedback there. Then link to it in the community add post.

Also write up an example letter we'll send to prospective guests.

0celo7

if I had terminal cancer I'd fuck with the NSA to see what happens

DanielSank

This needs to clearly explain the purpose and what's expected of them.

vzn

22:20

the ad is not merely typing it up (it has words! fonts!), its graphics design etc

ACuriousMind

Also, vague references to "see transcript" are essentially useless. If you want to reference chat, do it properly and link to the appropriate part of the transcript incl. date & time. — Emilio Pisanty 4 hours ago

DanielSank

Also write up some guidelines for participants in the AMA, i.e. what should they ask about and what should they not ask about.

How will it be moderated?

0celo7

WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT

ACuriousMind

That was exactly one of Emilio's points - the "writeup" somewhere inside the chat transcript is rather useless to people not familiar with the discussion and/or chat

DanielSank

@0celo7 The idea of having AMA's in the chat room on a semi-regular basis.

vzn

22:21

@DanielSank do not feel like going about it that way myself. am not against more meta stuff & everything else you mention if others want to get involved. dont want this to be a huge prj to start.

0celo7

Who would we get to do that?

DanielSank

@vzn Ok, well, then try to get some help.

@0celo7 Uh, the people talking about it here?

Stop trolling.

Danu

@0celo7 Ask your supervisor

vzn

@DanielSank @#%&

dmckee

In an effort to encourage more good posts to the site I wish in highlight interesting posts that have modest requirements for exeprtese. I think that

3

Q: Momentum of transverse waves on a string

In general, if a wave carries energy density $u$ with velocity $v$, it also carries momentum density $u/v$. I've seen this explicitly shown for electromagnetic waves and (longitudinal) sound waves. However, I'm having trouble seeing how the momentum density of a transverse wave on a string can b...

is one of those.

Danu

22:21

sigh, people

0celo7

Ban incoming

Whatever

@Danu What?

Danu

@0celo7 Stop trolling, @0celo7, and pretending like anyone is out to get you.

DanielSank

@dmckee I saw that. It's a fantastic question.

Danu

@0celo7 To do an AMA!

0celo7

God dammit what the fuck

DanielSank

22:22

I just didn't spend the hour it would take to work it all out and present it well.

0celo7

Why do I always have to be trolling

Why can't I just be fucking confused for once

Bye

dmckee

@0celo7 Take it as an indication that people aren't getting it if you think that you're being transparently silly or something.

vzn

@DanielSank moderation is not possible with current architecture other than DZ or others staying present (hi Danu!), DZ said he would pay special attn

DanielSank

@vzn The point is that some amount of describing the desired experience and subjecting that to community feedback is probably a good idea before anything else.

vzn

@DanielSank this is cyberspace, not a university lecture room. maybe we need another 1st guest with tougher skin and toleration for this freewheeling chat atmosphere. eg Slereah

DanielSank

22:26

@vzn The guest isn't the problem, dude.

vzn

@DanielSank to me, thats all thats required to begin. start small. grow. aka extreme programming. "try the 1st/ simplest thing that works". could already have had a session by now. with all this, am thinking that this all may take way more time than have for it. :(

DanielSank

Thick skin is not the problem. Dude you need to pay attention to what everyone is telling you.

vzn

@DanielSank you will notice a response to almost everybody, and theres a lot of feedback eh? guess the response is nearly a full time job.

how many lines have we all typed so far? am betting that adding it all up, all the dialog might already exceed that of the actual speaker chat session :(

DanielSank

@vzn Yes. So stop complaining and spend the 10 minutes it would take to write up a statement of purpose on meta.

If you don't, I will, eventually.

vzn

@DanielSank ok

dmckee

22:31

Organizing events is hard work. Even in Cyberspace. Organizing successful events is even harder work. And the first time is harder still.

DanielSank

^ Yes.

vzn

@dmckee no, its not hard, but others make it hard. :(

DanielSank

That is total bologna.

Go look at reddit AMAs.

vzn

DZ already has a recurring event every 2 wks. its low maintenance. why are you guys overthinking this? geez, sheesh

DanielSank

They have a very good preparation system. Before they did this, a lot of AMA's just flopped.

@vzn It also doesn't involve someone dedicating their time and fielding a ton of questions in real time.

dmckee

22:32

^ That.

vzn

@DanielSank DS am all for big ambitions but for me, 1st session, if the speaker shows up and 2 guests and everyone says something, its a success

dmckee

The easiest party to organize is the one where you invite personable, interesting people and provide a space.

DanielSank

@vzn Your opinion might differ if you consider the experience of the guest for two seconds.

dmckee

Adding any structure is where it gets tricky.

DanielSank

I am frustrated that you keep claiming this is easy and requires no preparation, yet you have barely thought about any of the actual issues. Please consider this.

dmckee

22:33

Voice of experience on that.

vzn

@dmckee "structure?" lol! we are talking about a cyberspace chat room o_O

DanielSank

@vzn If I were the guest and I set aside an hour of time on a Saturday morning and only 2 people show up, I would not consider that a good use of my time.

Danu

Sigh, I think it's time to give up on this discussion.

DanielSank

@Danu I disagree.

vzn

@DanielSank DS, some of this is like a talk you give, and some of it is nothing like that whatsoever

DanielSank

22:34

@vzn Look, if you want interesting guests, you need to make it worth their time. Go advertise that you have an audience of 2 and see who wants to dedicate their time.

Seriously, go try it and see what happens.

vzn

@DanielSank lol, and how much time do you spend chatting here? @#%&

Danu

For now, it seems like there is no way of making progress. I think that we've collectively antagonized vzn to the extent that there is no way to get much useful stuff done now.

DanielSank

@vzn I can leave whenever I want.

During an AMA I cannot.

Also, I need to clear the AMA with my employer.

I already explained this to you.

Please stop ignoring the effort of the guest. It's frustrating, and starting to be actually a bit insulting.

3

vzn

@DanielSank no you said nothing about that so far, iirc

DanielSank

@vzn Yeah, well then you need to adjust the amount of brain cycles you dedicate to the concerns of the prospective guests, because I did mention this.

vzn

22:36

@DanielSank we are all spending effort. am not asking any preparation of you. am very gratified you feel its necessary & want to do that, but dont think it will work out as intended anyway. do not think anything written by me so far is "insulting," quite to the contrary

ACuriousMind

May 18 at 15:18, by DanielSank

Also @vzn I think you should consider that any good presentation of any kind requires preparation, and in ways you may not be aware of. For example, I assume people would like to ask questions about my job. If I want that to be possible I need to go get trained by public relations folks at Google and make sure I understand the boundaries.

2

DanielSank

@vzn Dude, listen to me. I would not see it as a good use of my own time to do an AMA without preparation.

It's not just about what you want.

ACuriousMind

@dmckee On it ;)

DanielSank

@ACuriousMind Thank you.

@vzn I hope you have some new things to think about. Goodbye for now.

(See that, I can leave, unlike during an AMA)

vzn

@ACuriousMind you said elsewhere talking about google was off limits. that was my 1st question to you awhile back re NDA boundaries etc. thought you were speaking hypotheticallly there re google clearance.

@DanielSank feel any significant "preparation" on a topic might backfire for guest. its really not a good venue/ forum/ format for that.

vzn

22:54

← "frustrated/ feel insulted" too :(

vzn

23:13

May 18 at 15:20, by DanielSank

@vzn Meta isn't the right channel, but the rest is good.

Bernard Meurer

23:40

@vzn I beg to differ, preparation is always a must

Transcript for