The h Bar

Slereah

20:00

Yeah there isn't really such a thing as well defined particles

They are pretty smeared

0celo7

20:13

@Slereah Freire said the smoothing proof should be easy and will write it up and send it to me. He says O'Neil is pretty close, he'll make it explicit

Slereah

Aight

0celo7

He did remark that it's a little strange that the proof is not available anywhere

Slereah

Ahahah

Yeah once you start trying to Prove All The Things You Know

It gets a bit weird

Tracking down a full proof of anything is pretty hard

And sometimes you realize that the proof doesn't exist at all!

Like when Peskin says "Well the interacting theory has a small coupling so we can totally use the vacuum state of the free theory as a starting point"

Even though that's a filthy lie

0celo7

WHAT

I thought that's how you did QFT

You build the interacting vacuum out of the free one

@dmckee Got my venti dark roast from El $bucks

Slereah

20:32

That is what people do, yes

Except

It's a FILTHY LIE

The Hilbert space of the interacting theory isn't the same as the free one

Hence rigorously it doesn't make sense!

Although it does work

0celo7

who cares if it makes sense

ugh why is coffee always so hot

@Slereah you know

the proof of Lemma 4.5.2 in HE is wrong

technically

Slereah

Is it

0celo7

you need to use a pullback connection

@Slereah yeah, because formally the covariant derivatives $\mathrm{D}/\partial s$ and the other one don't make sense

you need to define a connection on a pullback bundle $\alpha^*T\mathscr M$ or something

but no one bothers with that, not even a lot of actual riemannian geometry textbooks

James Rowland

@Slereah is the Hilbert space for interacting particles really different than the Hilbert space for non-interacting particles? In condensed matter this is not true. Do you have a ref I could read for high energy?

Slereah

@JamesRowland It's the Haag theorem

In non-relativistic QM it is the same, yes

cds.cern.ch/record/212242/files/p1.pdf

^source

James Rowland

20:40

Cool thanks!

Slereah

But the two different spaces give similar enough measurements that nobody really cares

0celo7

@Slereah Why similar

PROOF

Slereah

Well, experimentally it works

So any difference between the two will be below experimental reach

0celo7

or maybe @Obliv was right and QFT breaks math

Slereah

QFT math is pretty shit

Either it's all handwavy, it doesn't apply to the standard model or it's horribly complicated

0celo7

20:46

was gonna type a blog post in starbucks

like a real man

Slereah

apparently 100 authors against Einstein was never translated

reeeee

0celo7

Ich kann's dir vorlesen, mein Junge.

@Slereah do you know what that translates to

Slereah

I can vorlesen you, my young'un

(I hope that's not "molest")

0celo7

I can read it to you

coffee on SW

Obliv

@0celo7 I never said that >_> I now realize that math is simply a language of logic that if applied correctly HAS to describe the universe otherwise it was written wrongly in describing the system.

Slereah

20:54

Only if you assume the universe to have understandable rules

0celo7

@Slereah I spit coffee on the cover of SW

Obliv

@Slereah Well, we try our best I guess :p

@0celo7 very nice. Now you can hand it down to me for half the price :D

0celo7

@Obliv how much math do you know

SW is not a "physics" book in all honesty

Slereah

I know like 5 maths

0celo7

@Slereah I know 7, SUCK IT

Slereah

20:56

Ooooooooh

My feelings

0celo7

@Slereah do you know what a pullback bundle is

Slereah

Is it when you pullback a bundle

0celo7

I...that makes sense.

Obliv

@0celo7 Well, I'd like to say I know up to Calc II. I haven't really learned it rigorously though. I also dabble in algebraic geometry and trigonometry. Which is a fancy way of saying I can draw shapes.

0celo7

algebraic geometry o.O

@Obliv what are you, a freshman?

Obliv

21:00

@0celo7 yeah lol

0celo7

are you really

Obliv

@0celo7 no i am a pathological liar

0celo7

or are you a high schooler who wants to be taken seriously

Obliv

@0celo7 no lol I'm a freshman.

0celo7

what year do you think I am

Obliv

21:01

@0celo7 I'd prefer to be a high schooler so I could have learned more :[ I think you're in your 2nd or 3rd year of grad ?

0celo7

@Obliv I'm a freshman lol

Obliv

@0celo7 you finished undergrad though, right? lol

0celo7

No, I'm 18

Obliv

@0celo7 yeah fuck off lol

0celo7

Huh?

Are you American?

Ah!

Obliv

21:02

@0celo7 Yeah I live on the east coast. You can't mess with me man I know an 18 y/o isn't going to have 9 gr books

0celo7

@Obliv How can I prove it?

Obliv

@0celo7 does ACM know?

@0celo7 I'll have to ask him i guess @ACuriousMind

0celo7

Someone who can confirm for real is @BernardMeurer

He's met my sister

Slereah

I bet he has ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

0celo7

@Slereah He's too poor for her to fuck you idiot

Obliv

21:04

WOW... @BernardMeurer shots fired.

0celo7

I would send a pic of my ID on a GR book but I'm worried about people stealing my identity already

No need for people to know my exact DoB

Obliv

@0celo7 I refuse to believe you're 18, btw. You had to have been homeschooled?

0celo7

No

public school in VA

Obliv

@0celo7 what kind of steroid-enhancement program did you go through to learn that much math in HS?

0celo7

Standard

Obliv

21:06

@0celo7 my school didn't offer anything beyond Calc 2

0celo7

Algebra 1, Geometry (over a summer), Algebra 2, precalc, Calc BC

Obliv

@0celo7 so you learned all of the material on your own? starting from what age o_o

0celo7

hmm, about 16?

took calc 1 for fun after algebra 2 at a community college one summer

taught myself calc 2, 3, linear algebra

user54412

@tfb do you have a Ph.D. in physics? no? is that why you're calling the scientific method "tinfoil?" :) — Physics Ph.D. 1 hour ago

0celo7

@Obliv if you want my sincere recommendation for a GR book, it's Zee

Obliv

21:10

@0celo7 I have to brb but that's incredible dude. I thought I was a nerd senior year when I studied the fuck out of calc. Still years behind you somehow

0celo7

I read it junior year with some basic knowledge of calc 3

the book has hard parts, but I'd be more than willing to assist

Obliv

@0celo7 i'm not going to start learning gr when I haven't even learned lagrangian/hamiltonian mechs lol or before I take the math required for it. But thanks, I'll look into it when the time comes.

0celo7

(some of the exercises are insane, too)

@Obliv Zee teaches Lagrangian mechanics

And you don't need Hamiltonian mechanics for basic GR

Obliv

@0celo7 is it a math approach? I will still be severely behind I think.

0celo7

No

It's a physics book

Obliv

21:12

@0celo7 give me like 2 semesters and I'll have learned calc III, linear algebra, stat, & maybe discrete

0celo7

He doesn't even formally define the tangent space, everything is done intuitively

Stat?

Obliv

statistics

0celo7

Why would you need stat

I know what stat is!

Obliv

LOL

idk it's a math :D

0celo7

What school are you at

Obliv

21:13

that is top secret information

0celo7

Oh don't be like that

Slereah

Are you an X Man

0celo7

@Obliv well?

why don't you want to say

> however, it turns out that the result will not depend on the choice of extension

God, that's the "cf. HE" of Riemannian geometry.

Slereah

0

A: Beginners Textbooks in physics

The textbook my school uses for my AP Physics 2 course is the fifth revised edition Giancoli textbook. Like you, I am reading ahead and trying to absorb as much information as possible. I am sure many high school physics books are a great starting place to go further in studying physics at your l...

Time to investigate what his school is!

Obliv

@0celo7 I like anonymity

0celo7

21:17

@Obliv then don't tell us your name?

there's likely thousands of people at your school

Not like we're gonna know which one is you!

Bernard Meurer

@FenderLesPaul denied for Cornell and UPenn

0celo7

hmm, why $\mathrm{d}F(\tfrac{\partial }{\partial t})c(t,s)$

That doesn't make much sense...

Time to seppuku

Slereah

0celo7

@Obliv do you still doubt my age

Bernard Meurer

@Obliv he's indeed 18 and I'm indeed too poor for his sister, or for college as it seems

0celo7

21:26

> A direct calculation shows, that all five properties of the Proposition 16.3 are satisfied.

> Exercise 16.4 Perform the necessary calculations in the existence proof of Propo-
sition 16.3.

Obliv

@Slereah Are you going to track my ip? That is a pretty popular book in many schools :p

0celo7

@Obliv no one is going to track your IP.

Obliv

@0celo7 I don't doubt it anymore, I just thought you were messing with me at first. It just takes a certain kind of person to be able to teach yourself that much math in hs and I think they're pretty rare.

0celo7

I can't teach myself anymore

Obliv

@0celo7 how come

0celo7

21:31

Toxoplasmosis

3075

huh?

0celo7

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis

John Duffield

@Slereah : I don't have a theory, I refer to Einstein, and I don't like being badmouthed by you.

0celo7

Lol!

ArtOfCode

don't

0celo7

21:37

Flag thrown @ArtOfCode ?

Catija

So... why is this guy's theory so offensive to someone and yet another comment about "being too poor to f*" isn't?

ArtOfCode

@0celo7 apparently

Iszi

@0celo7 I think I saw 3, at least.

ArtOfCode

Didn't see it myself, but someone said it was here.

0celo7

@Catija Because the person who it was directed at didn't find it offensive?

Catija

21:37

I saw two.

user54412

@Catija There's a long-standing issue in this room.

Catija

The latter doesn't really bother me, honest... mostly it's the former I don't get.

ArtOfCode

@Catija links or they didn't happen

Catija

@ArtOfCode chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/28659208#28659208 and the post two above it were the ones I saw flagged.

Iszi

@Catija I concur. And to call it "badmouthing"? If that's what that is, I know a few rooms around here that probably need to be burned to the ground and exorcised.

ArtOfCode

21:39

cheers

that should give me something to do

Iszi

This was the one that initially drew my attention. chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/28659188#28659188 Then I saw another that I couldn't check before it was handled, then the one @Catija linked.

ArtOfCode

Mar 23 at 22:27, by ArtOfCode

Let me just drop a reminder in here: Be Nice. No matter who is is, whether you like them or not, it is a requirement of chat that everyone is nice to everyone else. Professional respect is a great thing.

2

Rainbolt

Automation saves time. Put that message on a one week loop.

Catija

@ArtOfCode You want me to star that one for you, too... so it's up in the star board twice ;)

user54412

@ArtOfCode perma-star a quote of yourself ;)

0celo7

21:41

Oh jesus!

Mods everywhere now

ArtOfCode

That got 16 stars over there --> kinda indicates y'all want people to be nice? Everyone's part of that, make it happen.

Iszi

@0celo7 Yeah, that usually happens with flags. Draws Mods & 10k-ers from all over.

John Duffield

@Catija : because I don't have a theory, I just answer questions with robust references like this, and I'm still getting slagged off for it.

0celo7

Great, @Slereah is suspended for a day

3075

what if you are referring to the archaic definition of "nice"?

0celo7

21:42

GG @JohnDuffield

ArtOfCode

don't go there

0celo7

@ArtOfCode He's the one who flagged

ArtOfCode

@3075 I'm referring to physics.stackexchange.com/help/be-nice

@0celo7 You don't know that.

Don't mudsling.

0celo7

> Be welcoming, be patient, and assume good intentions.

3075

owned.

0celo7

21:43

@ArtOfCode I know with 5 sigma

Good enough for CERN

ArtOfCode

Not good enough for the Dictator of Stack Exchange (tm)

0celo7

We've tried being welcoming, being patient and assuming good intentions.

Iszi

@ArtOfCode I dunno. I don't even know this room and I'm fairly confident enough to assert the same. Particularly given the first item I saw flagged.

0celo7

Can we now no longer do that?

ArtOfCode

@0celo7 It applies always or it applies never, and if it applies never then you get suspended. Your choice.

0celo7

21:45

Why is calling out people on being wrong "not nice"?

ArtOfCode

It's not, provided it's done constructively. It wasn't.

Iszi

@0celo7 I'm not saying I agree that it was flag-worthy, but there's a difference between saying "you're wrong" and saying "anyone who bothers trying to understand you is a fool".

ArtOfCode

@Iszi when are you going to get a diamond?

0celo7

@Iszi The user that message is referring to is wrong 99% of the time for the past X months

user54412

@ArtOfCode Well, for the record, there are users here who cannot be constructively criticized because they cannot learn and never will.

Iszi

21:46

@ArtOfCode Next Sec.SE election if I'm lucky. But I've already been passed over twice.

user54412

The only thing to say about them is that they are completely wrong, and others should be rightly warned of this.

ArtOfCode

@ChrisWhite I'm well aware of those users. I know the entire situation here, believe me.

0celo7

@ChrisWhite For the record, who are those users?

ArtOfCode

But there are constructive ways and unconstructive ways. "You're a fool" is of the latter.

0celo7

Fool's errand != you're a fool

Catija

21:48

@0celo7 Yes. I was going to say the same...

0celo7

Did @Slereah ever insult JD himself?

Insulting someone's ideas is not the same as insulting the person.

ArtOfCode

@0celo7 Yes, that's fair, I did paraphrase. However.

3 mins ago, by Iszi

@0celo7 I'm not saying I agree that it was flag-worthy, but there's a difference between saying "you're wrong" and saying "anyone who bothers trying to understand you is a fool".

Iszi

@ArtOfCode Oh, no. The statement was that anyone trying to understand the person is a fool. Unless that is a compliment, to imply that said person possesses supreme intelligence that mere mortals cannot comprehend, that's at least one or two levels past "unconstructive".

(Still not quite flag-worthy IMHO, but I come from a slightly different culture.)

ArtOfCode

How about... we return to your regular scheduled policies, and try not to discuss suspensions too much while their subjects aren't around?

Iszi

@ArtOfCode Heh. Strictly speaking, they may be around - they just can't speak for themselves fight now.

0celo7

21:51

@ArtOfCode I'm sure @Slereah doesn't mind.

ArtOfCode

@Iszi True enough

@0celo7 I'm not.

0celo7

I can get him on Skype and confirm.

Iszi

@0celo7 Regardless, the point is: Flags & disciplinary actions are done. Let's get over it and move on.

0celo7

@Iszi Get over it?

Until round 134 in a week.

Or tomorrow.

John Duffield

@0celo7 : the moot point is that Einstein wasn't wrong. You say he was, and that you're smarter than Einstein, and other things too.

Iszi

21:52

Man, it's that bad around here? Never would have imagined physicists took things so personally.

ArtOfCode

@0celo7 Look, I'll get onto the Physics mods. I agree totally with you that certain users here are persistent sources of trouble, and that needs to be addressed - but in chat, I don't have the tools to do that.

0celo7

Welp!

ArtOfCode

@0celo7 Be Nice. Last warning.

0celo7

BAN INCOMING

@ArtOfCode That was very nice!

Obliv

@0celo7 LOL

ArtOfCode

21:53

hardly

0celo7

I didn't insult him, did I?

Iszi

@0celo7 Attempting to publicly forecast imminent moderator actions, for solely humorous purposes, will often result in said actions being performed upon you instead.

Obliv

@JohnDuffield Got you really good with those links @0celo7

0celo7

@Obliv Lol, didn't even click on it.

ArtOfCode

@0celo7 Ugh, stop rules-lawyering for God's sake. I'm moderating with the spirit of the policies, just like every moderator does.

user54412

21:54

perhaps we should all just go and play some unikong

3

0celo7

I don't need to see an out-of-context Einstein quote for the 14th time.

Obliv

@0celo7 the conversation where you and slereah keep saying 'shit' rofl.

0celo7

@Iszi That does seem to be a pattern.

Unfortunately I'm not intelligent enough to pick up on that.

Iszi

@0celo7 Then you're welcome for the education.

0celo7

@Iszi What education?

Have I mentioned that my memory is like that of a goldfish?

@JohnDuffield What's with those last two links?

ArtOfCode

21:58

@Iszi seriously, go get a diamond. And link me to your nomination so I can upvote it several hundred times.

Iszi

@ChrisWhite Second time I've heard that word today, in as many different rooms. Am I missing something?

@ArtOfCode Heh. Next time I'm up for one, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

ArtOfCode

@Iszi SE released the April Fools' thing (remember StackEgg?)

Iszi

@ArtOfCode ORLY? Which time zone rolled over already?

ArtOfCode

shrug

user54412

only about half of them...

ArtOfCode

21:59

AFD anywhere in the world runs from 2016-03-31T12:00:00Z to 2016-04-02T12:00:00Z

Iszi

@ArtOfCode AFD?

ArtOfCode

sorry, april fools day

0celo7

Why are you having your personal chat in the ~~GR chat~~ PSE chat

Iszi

@ArtOfCode Ah.

ArtOfCode

@0celo7 I quote: "General chat".

0celo7

22:01

@ArtOfCode Well it would be a GR chat but someone just had to ban the other half of the GR duo

Iszi

Thread was already well-hijacked anyway. At least now it's hijacked to a more casual topic.

ArtOfCode

@0celo7 get over it, ain't nothing you can do will change it

but plenty you can do will get you suspended too

0celo7

@ArtOfCode oh?

ArtOfCode

ffs don't try

0celo7

I want to see how close I can get

What's the upper bound?

ArtOfCode

22:03

You're already on a last warning. Don't.

Iszi

@ArtOfCode Heh. I'm tempted to flag that for the sole sake of seeing such terminology used outside the DMZ. ;-)

0celo7

I'm not doing anything!

@Iszi Hmm?

@ArtOfCode poke

ArtOfCode

@Iszi true enough... it's not often I use it, either.

0celo7

?

What are you talking about

ArtOfCode

> ffs

0celo7

22:04

What about it?

ArtOfCode

It's rare, from me.

0celo7

Why?

It's one of my favorite sayings, rolls right off the fingers.

ArtOfCode

@0celo7 Because I have no interest in being vulgar in a pseudo-professional setting that is publically indexed and searchable by anyone who wants to know my character. Like employers.

Iszi

@ArtOfCode Oh, BTW: It's not a diamond, but did you hear I got bumped to Co-Room-Owner in the DMZ? Not sure exactly how it happened - I wasn't really all that involved in it - but it did.

ArtOfCode

@Iszi Hey, it's a step on the way :) I had a couple of RO appoints a few months before I was modded, too. Nice one!

0celo7

22:06

@ArtOfCode Employers check PSE account? Now that I find doubtful.

ArtOfCode

@0celo7 the same was said of Facebook in a time I can still remember.

0celo7

@ArtOfCode Facebook has a real name attached

ArtOfCode

@0celo7 My website links to my SE profile.

Iszi

@0celo7 Maybe not specifically, but they do Google. And Google can lead to chat aliases, which can lead back to here...

3

0celo7

@ArtOfCode Yeah, I just saw that.

Iszi

22:09

Wait... DeviantART has that?

0celo7

They have porn there

Iszi

Heh. It's what the Internet is for, after all.

0celo7

Let's check

Yes.

Iszi

Okay, I'm getting out of here before you link a pic and have it oneboxed or something. I'm still at work.

John Duffield

@barrycarter : re "I am attempting to unify JohnDuffield's theories with a more traditional understanding of SR". I don't have theories Barry. I'm not some my-theory guy. I've just read the Einstein digital papers. The understanding you get from that is different to the understanding you get from other sources, ranging from popscience articles to some textbooks.

0celo7

22:10

@Iszi Don't worry.

@Iszi ...Do you really think I'd onebox porn?

@skillpatrol don't lie

ArtOfCode

That would be a very good way to get suspended for a long time

0celo7

@ArtOfCode Oh really...

ArtOfCode

yes

0celo7

Let's get out 4chan then

ArtOfCode

let's not

skill patrol

22:13

Or even a pornographic avatar

0celo7

@skillpatrol lol remember Sofia

skill patrol

yup

0celo7

oh gosh

a prude?

that offends me

skill patrol

flag it

0celo7

I'm not a snitch

ArtOfCode

22:16

You lot do open-source licensing? Ever heard of the DBAD license?

0celo7

@ArtOfCode Who, me?

ArtOfCode

Anyone.

0celo7

No

ArtOfCode

The expanded acronym is "Don't Be A Dick". I think that would work as a good policy here.

0celo7

Are you calling me a dick?

ArtOfCode

22:17

No, I'm proposing a policy preventing you from being one.

skill patrol

what happened to your cool avatar? @ArtOfCode

0celo7

I don't know what I did to deserve being almost called a dick :(

ArtOfCode

@skillpatrol I got a cooler one. Look at the high-res version of this one.

0celo7

@skillpatrol my avatar is the best

WOO WOO

skill patrol

:D

0celo7

22:19

@ArtOfCode do you understand my avatar

ArtOfCode

I'm not sure I want to.

0celo7

@Obliv if you want a real nerd, take a look at @HDE226868

@ArtOfCode Wow where's the love

ArtOfCode

@0celo7 It died a long time ago. Around the same time I got a diamond.

skill patrol

I still prefer the math spirals @ArtOfCode

Don't let the power get into your blood pal.

0celo7

Bubb Rubb and Lil Sis: "Tha whistles go WOOO"

►

Obliv

22:21

@0celo7 what the fuck.. HOW??? I mean, to be fair, I did play around 4k hours of a videogame and got to a professional level. So there is a lot of time in HS to learn things. Just wish I could convert those hours to math&physics now '-'

0celo7

4k?

What, CS?

LoL?

dota?

Pokemon?

Obliv

@0celo7 can't say since my alias there is similar to my SE one

FenderLesPaul

@BernardMeurer really sorry to hear that dude :(

0celo7

@Obliv Now you're being silly

FenderLesPaul

their loss

do you know where you'll be attending?

Obliv

22:26

@0celo7 oh right, how does toxoplasmosis inhibit you from learning things on your own?

0celo7

@Obliv brain damage

I was doing something just now

Can't remember what :(

Oh, I was gonna write a blog post on pullback connections

Obliv

@0celo7 is it treatable/curable?

@0celo7 the toxoplasmosis that is

0celo7

@Obliv I don't know

Obliv

@0celo7 you got it diagnosed right? They didn't tell you what to do o_o?

skill patrol

Never forget Einstein and The Evidence

0celo7

22:28

no, self-diagnosis

skill patrol

You should put links to all his early papers in your blog?

0celo7

@skillpatrol lol

I'd be just as bad as the goblin then

NOTE THE GOBLIN IS NOT A PERSON MODS

Obliv

@0celo7 just curious but how did you come to your conclusion?

0celo7

@Obliv I have a cat

skill patrol

There is a user called Goblin

at mse

David Z

22:45

@JohnDuffield remember, we told you not to have those kinds of discussions here

Bernard Meurer

@FenderLesPaul It's alright I guess, I'm feeling a little better now

@FenderLesPaul No, I think I won't be attending at all; no money

skill patrol

Wtf.

Don't drop out.

Bernard Meurer

@DavidZ Why did 0celo7 get suspended?

David Z

@BernardMeurer We don't discuss specific suspensions.

Bernard Meurer

@DavidZ Oh, correct we discussed that before, pardon me

David Z

22:54

No worries :-)

skill patrol

Was calling Sophie a prude uncalled for?

Transcript for