The h Bar

FenderLesPaul

20:12

@bolbteppa yes

actually it's better to say that the coordinate speed of light varies

but that coordinate speed is a meaningless concept to start with

the locally measured speed of light is indeed always the same in a local inertial frame

bolbteppa

Duff has a theory of why coordinates are a misleading mathematical abstraction though haha

FenderLesPaul

well I wouldn't worry too much about Duffield's theories haha

bolbteppa

@JohnDuffield The speed of light is "variable" in GR because the space changes, not the light, if you go to a locally Minkowski coordinate system in a curved space the light beam will be the same constant value because the space is locally flat, this is what the second half of your Einstein paragraph even says, so saying the speed of light is not constant in general relativity is very misleading and ill-stated,

If the speed of light were actually variable then you couldn't go to a locally Minkowski frame where the speed of light was constant, you are just misleading yourself going on sentences and language from 100 years ago instead of using math and reading serious books

Imagine denying the coordinates

$F = F(????,???,??,?)$

ACuriousMind

@user507974 Chicken with garlic and sweet peppers in coconut milk, with rice. Currently waiting for it to cool.

0celo7

ACM's a cook, too

@FenderLesPaul lol

why bother saying that

he refuses to accept the equivalence principle.

ACuriousMind

20:27

@0celo7 wouldn't you cook too if you didn't live in a dorm?

user507974

@ACuriousMind This, I was totally lazy yesterday and didn't have dinner, gonna try buffalo burgers in a bit

Bernard Meurer

@ACuriousMind I'll starve before I try to cook; less painful death

ACuriousMind

@user507974 Never had buffalo, but sounds tasty

user507974

@BernardMeurer cooking is just amazing bernie

ACuriousMind

@BernardMeurer Try it! You'll learn to make something you can eat after the first few failures ;)

Bernard Meurer

20:36

@user507974 Last time I tried I set my kitchen partially on fire

ACuriousMind

lol

user507974

envisiona suculent slab of steak, crispy on the outside, tender on the inside, served atop a fresh alfredo pasta with a side of a yummy steamed green like broccoli that soaks up the leftover sauce

Bernard Meurer

I just get distracted and then everything just turns to carbon

user507974

lel

ACuriousMind

@BernardMeurer Maybe start with salads, then ;)

Bernard Meurer

20:37

@ACuriousMind That's not even real food :(

0celo7

@ACuriousMind yes

user507974

@BernardMeurer do you call any people regularly?

Bernard Meurer

@user507974 What do you mean?

user507974

i call back home usually when I am cooking dinner

Bernard Meurer

Oh, as in phone call; No I don't ever take phone calls

user507974

20:38

since I usually am not very efficient with work while on the phone but cooking is only minimally impacted

Bernard Meurer

unless you call three times in a row

ACuriousMind

@BernardMeurer Then do...sushi? I don't know. It shouldn't be that hard to not set your kitchen on fire :P

user507974

sushi has a bit of finesse to it for sure

Bernard Meurer

@ACuriousMind Dude, it's pretty damn difficult

I usually try to read while I cook

it never turned well

user507974

@BernardMeurer read standing up next to your pot

the sound alone changes so you should notice the differences

Bernard Meurer

20:40

I managed to do pasta last time I tried tho

user507974

ok, that is all the cooking you actually have to do for a lot of tasty dishes already

are you a fan of alfredo sauces?

ACuriousMind

Well, don't try to do other things while cooking! Or rather, set a timer for the periods where don't have to pay attention

Bernard Meurer

That cannibalism?

user507974

@BernardMeurer what is that referring to?

Bernard Meurer

1. Find some dude named alfredo
2. Chop alfredo
3. Place on pasta
4. Enjoy

John Duffield

20:42

@bolbteppa : you don't even know the difference between curved space and curved spacetime, see Baez. The distinction is crucial. Now, is there some part of "the curvature of light rays occurs only in spaces where the speed of light is spatially variable" that you didn't understand?

Bernard Meurer

Where do you hunt your alfredos @user507974?

user507974

traditional alfredo is some of the easiest thing to make on the planet, all you do is momentarily strain your pasta, toss it back in the pot still steaming and stir parmessan and butter together

Bernard Meurer

That sounds pretty tasty

user507974

i generally like to add some heavy cream and a touch of garlic too

actually since i prefer a little more heft i thicken that heavy cream and garlic and warm it seperately

Bernard Meurer

@user507974 You're going to give me classes if I go to wherever you study

user507974

20:44

but baby steps

sure, cooking has been too solitary for me since i moved to uni

Bernard Meurer

But we'll sign a contract saying that any cases of fire are your responsibility

user507974

back in highschool i use to cook with my friends all the time, i kinda pushed everyone into it and since my stuff was so tasty they kinda ended up agreeing to it

@BernardMeurer as long as you're not reading at the time

0celo7

@BernardMeurer I ain't got nothing to do until later, did you DL GTA5?

Bernard Meurer

@user507974 deal

@0celo7 Didn't, should I?

0celo7

do you have to delete BF4?

Bernard Meurer

20:47

let me check

Nah

0celo7

ok, the DL will take hours anyway

it's bigger than BF4 by a little bit

@ACuriousMind sushi is not easy to make

bolbteppa

@JohnDuffield unbelievable, enjoy misleading yourself with this nonsense

ACuriousMind

@user507974 lol, when I cook with friends, it's always a hilarious confusing mess :D

John Duffield

@bolbteppa : the second half of the Einstein paragraph does not say the speed of light is constant. Have you ever read any material for yourself? Such as Shapiro: "according to the general theory, the speed of a light wave depends on the strength of the gravitational potential along its path". Obviously not. You're just another parroting naysayer who dismisses Einstein.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 I know, but it was the first non-salad food that came to my mind that you don't need to warm

Although, now that I think about it, he'd have to cook the rice

Bernard Meurer

20:49

@ACuriousMind Do I get free food from you when I go to Heidelberg?

Dude cooking rice is p complex

0celo7

why would you to go Hberg

there's nothing of interest there

user507974

@ACuriousMind that too, everybody's personality quirks really pop out sometimes and coordinating noobs is amusing

@BernardMeurer oh

here is something for rice

makes the tastiest rice ever, and is the laziest way you can ever make it

never burns either

Bernard Meurer

Buy it ready?

user507974

@BernardMeurer i said tasty, not pasty

0celo7

not be a shite

Bernard Meurer

20:50

Hahahaha

0celo7

then make it

user507974

what i do is take 1.5 times water to rice, a little salt, and a tbsp of the best tasting butter you have

John Duffield

@bolbteppa : Einstein said what he said, so did Shapiro, so did Don Koks: "In that sense, we could say that the "ceiling" speed of light in the presence of gravity is higher than the "floor" speed of light." You're the one who believes in nonsense.

0celo7

I love how Coone started making mainstream house music, was shit at it, people hated him, he moved back to hardstyle and people love him again.

bolbteppa

@JohnDuffield I'm the parrot, yet you're the one quoting Einstein and other people's language without a hint of math

Bernard Meurer

20:52

@user507974 Wait I'm taking note of this shit

0celo7

@bolbteppa the irony is lost on him

@user507974 isn't that how ALL rice is made

ACuriousMind

@BernardMeurer Yeah, you then get to taste one of my experimental meals. While I'm a theorist everywhere else, I take the "throw stuff together and see how it tastes" approach to cooking.

0celo7

it says that shit right on the box

user507974

@BernardMeurer you put your stove on a slightly warmer than simmer temperature, like 2-3 on the 1-10 stoves, and basically either an hour later to 5 hours later its ready

0celo7

hour to 5 lol

user507974

20:53

if you leave it a long time this golden rim of amazing delight (in persian called tadiq) develops around it

0celo7

@BernardMeurer wtf is it with people eating dinner at 4:45

Bernard Meurer

It takes 5 hours to make some rice? I'll starve in the process!

user507974

the buttery goodness is magnified there and if you want you can even add a bit more butter there

@BernardMeurer well, if you start with the water boiling this takes like half an hour

but

im usually sitting around doing hw

so i put that and forget about for hours

Bernard Meurer

Tsc, how is it that i'm the only one getting flames

0celo7

@BernardMeurer lack of linear algebra skills

read Shankar

ACuriousMind

20:55

@user507974 Do you rinse the rice? I imagine it'd turn into a starchy mess if you don't

0celo7

@ACuriousMind you mean dissolve?

Qmechanic

I would appreciate it if someone could explain-to-OP/mediate/step-in/vote-to-reopen/vote-to-close here.

user507974

@ACuriousMind half of the time i do, other times im a bit lazy but the results still arent too bad, i tend to use long grain rices

John Duffield

@bolbteppa : an optical clock doesn't go slower when it's lower because of maths. Or because of some magical mysterious thing called time. Instead it goes slower when it's lower because the speed of light is spatially variable. That's it, Einstein said it, others said it, and I'm saying it too.

Of course, you could always claim that both light pulses are moving at the same speed.

user507974

the difference isnt that big imo, but basically this is the perfect way to enjoy rice, you literally get a tadiq bowl you can put your entree into if you want

i do it with armenian chicken curries, steaks, and a million other things

Bernard Meurer

20:57

@user507974 Where are you from?

user507974

@BernardMeurer ethnically armenian, us born

0celo7

@BernardMeurer what's the DL time

Bernard Meurer

@user507974 Figured

@0celo7 It's still allocating disk space

0celo7

wtf

your drive is fragmented to hell

Bernard Meurer

@0celo7 My PC is from '09

0celo7

21:00

defrag the hard drive

Bernard Meurer

@0celo7 It does so automatically every day

0celo7

o.o

and you still need that long to find space?

Bernard Meurer

@0celo7 Shitty hardware dude

0celo7

but you can run GTA5

ACuriousMind

@Qmechanic Left a comment; not sure if it's helping.

Bernard Meurer

21:02

@0celo7 Yeah, it runs alright

Qmechanic

@ACuriousMind : Ok, thx.

0celo7

@StanShunpike really good: pro.beatport.com/release/reverze-2016-deception/1716499

I like how one of the tracks samples the first transformers movie

the first M. Bay one

not the one with Galvatron and Unicron

@BernardMeurer what?

Bernard Meurer

Do you like my device names?

0celo7

no

Bernard Meurer

:(

0celo7

21:09

I don't know what a Pflugscharen is

user507974

@0celo7 all i know is that my english sensibilties lead me to assume that the pronounciation of that word is pfugly

Bernard Meurer

@0celo7 It's a farming tool; dunno the name in english

@ACuriousMind Any idea?

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Pflugschar is the German word for the part of a plough that digs through the earth

user507974

so kinda a hoe?

0celo7

@ACuriousMind how am I supposed to know that

it's a strange as hell name for a phone

user507974

21:13

ploughshare is the english name for pflugschar

and yea @ACM, ikr

talk about creativity in translation

0celo7

Stay classy, Fox.

user507974

ok guys, when you see a pic of ted cruz or hilary clinton doesnt your skin start crawling

0celo7

@user507974 I don't know that English word either

@user507974 no

user507974

@0celo7 you're sure?

0celo7

Yes.

user507974

21:17

i dont know, even if people say dont judge a book by their cover its easy to get a vibe from him that something isnt quite right with him

im generally kind of sensitive to cues from other people and those two just give me chills

0celo7

I've never seen him in person

So I wouldn't know

I've seen Jeb and Donald

user507974

@0celo7 seeing mannerisms in videos gives a lot of those ques, and then there is a kind of look in their eyes on high res pics too...

@0celo7 whatd you think of them

0celo7

@user507974 Jeb seemed like a nice guy

Didn't get close to Trump

user507974

@0celo7 or else there'd be hell toupee

0celo7

@user507974 what?

user507974

21:21

terrible pun, his hair wig thing is called a toupee, pronounced to-pay

0celo7

his hair is real

I don't get the joke

ugh, I have a stomach ache

@ACuriousMind mama duck help me

user507974

@0celo7 well ok, sadly that joke is getting cut

bolbteppa

@JohnDuffield "The description of motion in relativity requires more than one concept of speed. Coordinate speed is the coordinate distance measured by the observer divided by the coordinate time of the observer. Proper speed is the local proper distance divided by the local proper time. The coordinate speed of light (both instantaneous and average) is slowed in the presence of gravitational fields. The local instantaneous proper speed of light is always c."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propagation_of_light_in_non-inertial_reference_frames

@JohnDuffield "the parameter c is ubiquitous in modern physics, appearing in many contexts that are unrelated to light. For example, general relativity predicts that c is also the speed of gravity and of gravitational waves. In non-inertial frames of reference (gravitationally curved space or accelerated reference frames), the local speed of light is constant and equal to c, but the speed of light along a trajectory of finite length can differ from c, depending on how distances and times are defined.

user54412

21:40

@ACuriousMind in other words, risotto?

ACuriousMind

Heh, yes, I guess so

John Duffield

@bolbteppa : I know all that stuff. It's wrong I'm afraid. The coordinate speed of light is what Einstein referred to as the speed of light, which varies in the room you're in. If it didn't optical clocks at different heights would run at the same rate, light wouldn't curve, and your pencil wouldn't fall down.

The local instantaneous proper speed of light is always c by definition, because of the tautology. We use the local motion of light to define the second and the metre. Note though that at the event horizon of a black hole the coordinate speed of light is zero. That's a place where light doesn't move, so there's no defining the second or the metre.

bolbteppa

"It's wrong I'm afraid"???

user54412

@BernardMeurer I used to think cooking rice was at least a 2/10 in difficult :p Then I lived with Asians for 4 years who all insisted they've never even considered cooking rice except with an automatic rice cooker.

bolbteppa

Oh my god

It's funny how you deny the role of coordinates as nothing but some mathematical fiction yet your whole belief system about light speed is called the "coordinate speed", "depending on how distances and times are defined"

John Duffield

21:45

@bolbteppa : yes it's wrong. Einstein wasn't, nor Shapiro, nor Don Koks. Nor is Ned Wright: "In a very real sense, the delay experienced by light passing a massive object is responsible for the deflection of the light".

@bolbteppa : I don't call it the coordinate speed of light. I call it the speed of light. So did Einstein. So did Shapiro.

Note Shapiro: "according to the general theory, the speed of a light wave depends on the strength of the gravitational potential along its path". Don't you get it yet? I don't have a belief system. You do.

0celo7

this is a boring conversation

@ACuriousMind can you believe I used to do this

John Duffield

Says the kid who thinks he's smarter than Einstein.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Yes.

0celo7

@ACuriousMind wow

just when I thin you'll be nice...

@JohnDuffield I am

so?

@ACuriousMind the other day I saw a Subway employee with the name tag "ayy lmao"

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