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00:00 - 16:0016:00 - 00:00

4:00 PM
Care to comment?
 
@Danu Uh, have you seen any books/papers that used it?
I'm not doubting you that it's good etiquette in some circles (I have no evidence to the contrary), but it's certainly not common.
And IMHO it looks shit.
:)
 
@0celo7 Those are usually hardly exemplary
 
@Danu If 95% of the community uses some other standard how can your notation be "good etiquette"?
 
@ Acuriousmind Hmm...make sense, interesting

I will try it out as an exercise later as I need the geodesics to investigate and to do so I need the first compute the christoffel symbols which I cannot do it within 5 mins

The gaussian should make this computation not very difficult as I knew gaussians tend to have nice properties when integrated
 
@ACuriousMind A bit sanity check question for me: How is spin differ from (ordinary) angular momentum. I noticed they had more or less the same form of commutation relation, that they are both involved in magnetic moments and they can add like vectors, so how are they different other than spin only has 2s+1 values?
 
4:27 PM
@0celo7 No, tikz-cd is not enabled in MathJax as far as I know, and I can't be bothered to draw them in matrices
@0celo7 Yeah.
@Danu I don't think the spacing of \mid is good for bra-ket. It is good for set-builder notation.
 
@ACuriousMind You can draw them in matrices?
 
@Secret Ordinary angular momentum is $L_i = \epsilon_{ijk} x_j p_k$. Spin is not, the spin d.o.f. is unrelated to actual spatial rotations (but contributes to the Noether charge under global $\mathrm{SO}(3)$ all the same)
@0celo7 You have arrows in all major directions that you can use as the content of a cell. It's a hassle, and it doesn't look very pretty
 
@ACuriousMind Yeah, I guess that could work.
@ACuriousMind Am I insane? Suppose we have a pendulum that hits a peg and deforms around the peg. We raise the pendulum a height $h$ above the lowest point of the swing on the side that doesn't hit the peg. When we let it go, it will rise to the same height $h$ after hitting the peg, due to conservation of energy.
The string of the pendulum is massless, so no energy should be lost in the deformation.
 
@Danu Even if you have all "matrix elements" (in math terms it is called the associated quadratic form), it has to be justified that this is enough to say the operators are equal. There is a theorem that says that to a semibounded (or positive if you want) closed quadratic form corresponds a unique operator, but that is a non-trivial result
and then you also have to split operators in a positive and negative part and finish the proof.
And here I am just restricting to bounded operators, with unbounded ones it's not true (probably you can't even do the splitting on positive and negative part, and there are a lot of domain problems as usual).
 
4:42 PM
@yuggib Functional analysis sucks.
 
Morning
 
@0celo7 nah...it's fun :-)
 
>reading PDF
>trying to figure out this damn minus sign
>it's an equals that didn't scan properly
 
@0celo7I feel you there
 
@ACuriousMind Are you familiar with the material contained in Bott & Tu, Differential Forms in Algebraic Topology? (Springer, GTM.)
It looks like the summer schedule won't work out for me to take physics, so I'll do a reading course with my adviser. That book is also on the list he gave me.
 
4:57 PM
@0celo7 No idea, and I dont have time to read it right now
 
@ACuriousMind you're completely right!
 
@Danu So when I say it, you defer to Chris White, but when ACM says it, he's right?
 
No, he just reminded me of how I got it from Chris. For set building.
 
@Danu But still, you didn't think that $A\mid\psi\rangle$ looks strange?
 
A little, yes
 
5:05 PM
@Danu Did you know that there are two J.M. Lees with grad-level diff geo books?
I probably told you that once.
 
@yuggib I feel like there should be something that usually holds in physics that guarantees it. Separability?
 
No it holds also for non-separable spaces
I am just saying it is not so trivial, and maybe deserves an answer on PSE
 
Sigh...thirteen votes for stating the result of an elementary special relativity exercise, and counting...
 
Hah, a question for @DanielSank :
0
Q: Dimensions of physical quantities in quantum mechanics

Harsha VardhanIn most introductory quantum mechanics classes, we are introduced to the Dirac notation, concept of the 'state' of the system being represented as an abstract vector in the Hilbert space associated with it, and we are told that measurements of physical quantities involve the action of a Hermitian...

 
5:22 PM
@dmckee Sigh...knoxnews.com/entertainment/pop-culture/… . With all the rape stuff, frat bullshit, is UT becoming known as a part school?
 
@ACuriousMind Welcome to my world :-)
14 votes now
Does JD have a point? Am I being unfair to say his response isn't an answer?
 
@JohnRennie I think it's not an answer.
why was the post undeleted?
 
@JohnRennie No, all I can see is that you wrote: "However if you want to make large changes, e.g. completely rewrite a section, please post the revised text as a separate answer and I will review and edit it in." and that's not what he claims you said. In particular, it doesn't ask for comments, but for suggestions for additional/replacement section
 
@Danu don't know, presumably three people voted to undelete it ...
 
As far as I'm concerned, what he wrote there is not an answer in any sense of the word
 
5:28 PM
Oh it's deleted again...
 
@dmckee *party school
 
@Danu We'll have to wait and see how long it takes to get undeleted again :-)
 
@Danu The revision history says " Post Undeleted by John Duffield"
No one voted to undelete it except the author :P
 
@ACuriousMind good, because it's not an answer
 
But apparently, a >3k author can unilaterally overrule a review deletion that didn't contain an actual delete vote
 
5:31 PM
It looks as if Manish deleted it this time and he's a moderator. I wonder if that makes a difference.
 
@ACuriousMind That makes zero sense
 
There seem to be two different kinds of delete
Sometimes clicking the delete link just gives you a vote to delete prompt
 
@JohnRennie Yes. Mod deletion is only reversible by another mod, iirc
 
and sometimes you get the delete dialog with the choice of reasons
 
@Danu It also doesn't make sense that delete reviews don't delete positively-scored posts, imo. The "recommend deletion" mechanic as a few such quirks
 
5:33 PM
I don't know what controls which type of delete option you get
 
@JohnRennie You get the reason dialog in review
 
@ACuriousMind only in review?
 
If you directly vote to delete, you never need to give a reason, it is apparently assumed >20k users don't need to justify themselves...I don't know
@JohnRennie Yes, only in review
 
Just out of curiousity, if you look at the deleted answer does it show I voted to delete or is anonymous?
 
@JohnRennie It does show that
 
5:35 PM
So JD knows I voted to delete his answer [fx: maniacal laughter!]
 
lol
@JohnRennie I don't think so; this may well be a 10k+ privilege (as is seeing deleted posts in the first place).
 
Presumably you can see your own deleted posts though ...
 
Yeah, maybe...
 
It's a bit of a rubbish canonical Q/A anyway. I'm beginning to wonder if it wasn't a waste of effort.
I ony posted it so I could have something to refer to when I write my canonical Q/A on what is time dilation?
 
I think it's pretty nice because it's a question that comes up in confused people's minds very often.
 
6:00 PM
@Secret : see the Einstein-de Haas effect which "demonstrates that spin angular momentum is indeed of the same nature as the angular momentum of rotating bodies as conceived in classical mechanics".
 
I've never seen so much misinformation in a Physics SE post before this one
19
Q: Could the randomness of quantum mechanics be the result of unseen factors?

ViziionaryThe possibility of randomness in physics doesnt particularly bother me, but contemplating the possibility that quarks might be made up of something even smaller, just in general, leads me to think there are likely (or perhaps certainly?) thousands of particles and forces, perhaps layers and sub l...

I'm annoyed that hundreds of rep have been generated by that misinformation.
It's interesting that the SE model doesn't allow motions to remove content for being wrong.
 
@DanielSank They have this interesting idea that wrong stuff will be pushed down because it gathers more downvotes than upvotes. Unfortunately, that presupposes that the expert population able to recognize wrong stuff is large enough to drown out those who upvote everything that sounds cool, actually reads most posts, and then actually votes on them.
 
@JohnRennie : yes, I know. And I now know that when you say comments welcome and why not post your view as an answer? along with the point of a canonical question is to gather all the arguments into one place, I should take it with a pinch of salt.
 
The last point is important - you need to vote. There are many capable users here with very low overall vote counts.
 
@Danu : I saw this undelete option and thought what does that do? and clicked it, and it undeleted my answer. Is that a deliberate feature?
 
6:26 PM
@ACuriousMind Yes yes indeed. It is interesting that there is not a "this is completely incorrect" close reason though.
I didn't say it's bad. It's interesting.
 
@JohnDuffield I hereby formally encourage you to post an answer that is an answer. That is, imagine my answer didn't exist and you wished to post the perfect answer, then write what you would post under those circumstances.
I did not vote to delete your answer because I disagreed with it. I voted to delete because it was not an answer to the question posted.
 
@JohnRennie Oooohhhhh, formally!
With glitter and fancy hats?
 
Re the undelete: normally it takes three votes from high rep users to undelete a deleted answer. We were a bit surprised to find the author has that right with just a single vote.
@DanielSank although it doesn't seem to be the case these days, in my days in the British educational system much emphasis was placed on using English in subtle ways.
Or sometimes not so subtle.
 
@JohnRennie Example?
 
I took to this big style, so when I write I hereby formally encourage you it means shut the f##k up and just do it.
But naturally we Brits are far too polite ever to say that directly :-)
 
6:34 PM
Brits
 
@0celo7 British
 
@JohnRennie You don't say
Damn Brit
 
@JohnRennie Ah. Yes.
 
It's like when I say you may wish to reconsider ...
Or yes I can see why you did that
All a game really.
@0celo7 you may say that but I couldn't possibly comment
 
@ACuriousMind Were you expecting EDI to betray you at some point in the series?
 
6:46 PM
@JohnRennie sassenachs
 
@JohnRennie : I've posted my answer. I could say more to make it a "perfect" answer, but I thought a fairly short answer is maybe more apt.
 
0
Q: Where should I ask engeneering/manufacturing questions?

Gyro GearlooseI am wondering how an Archimedean screw (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes%27_screw) could be made. Especially, I would be interested who ancient civilizations would do it, say early Greek or Romans. physics.stackexchange does not look like the place to ask this, but for all *.stackexcha...

 
@yuggib I think that's the n word for English people
@yuggib Is $\lvert\int_a^b f\rvert\le\int_a^b\lvert f\rvert$ just the triangle inequality on each partition of $[a,b]$ where $f$ is positive/negative?
 
7:36 PM
@0celo7 Sassenach is just a traditional Scottish word for the English, though I doubt anyone uses the word outside of period dramas.
 
@JohnRennie yuggib likes it
 
It's not particularly rude, though any Scot using it probably means it to imply contempt.
@JohnDuffield Thanks :-)
@0celo7 It's a bit like the Australians calling us pommies or the Americans calling us limeys.
 
@JohnRennie you are god damn limeys
 
8:04 PM
@0celo7 Of course, your school has a party school reputation, but so what? People in physics and engineering know that the physics and engineering programs are rigorous and that the ones who party hard discover that $$ \lim_{\text{GPA} \to 0} \text{ENGR} = \text{ECON} $$ (or even COMM).
My undergrad institution hosted what Playboy Magazine called the "third biggest part of the year" on Halloween while I was there. It didn't affect the value of my degree because the Physics program was know to be rigorous.
 
@dmckee Actually, it's more like $$\lim_{\text{GPA}\to0}\text{ENGR}=\text{SUPP CHAIN MGMT}$$
Because our program for that is really good (allegedly) and it's not nearly as "hard" as engineering
@dmckee Of course?
Is this a recent thing?
 
While I was in Tuscaloosa more than one student mentioned friends who went to Knoxsville for the party atmosphere. They took it for granted, but I suppose that is was a regional reputation because I'd never heard that before then.
@0celo7 Logistics is very important to the modern world and is definitely a technical discipline these days, but I still think of it as "studying to be a supply sergeant".
Someone has to do it and they can't be bumbling oafs, but it doesn't attract the best and the brightest.
 
8:22 PM
You know a book is going to be trouble when it has $\Gamma(TM)$ on page six without any explanation
 
@FenderLesPaul nothing yet this week from anywhere I applied
 
@0celo7 naïvely, it is the triangle inequality
@JohnRennie It's used in all gaelic languages as far as I know...and due to the long-standing problems between gaelic people and brits, I don't think it is meant to be exactly positive...
 
0
Q: Interpretations of Quantum Mechanics

stewy0013Two Questions: 1) What are the basic interpretations of quantum mechanics and what does each have to say about the nature of reality and the role of the observer (or anything else of interest)? 2) Are there any good references out there (free or otherwise) which address the question above at th...

Too broad? Duplicate? Should be CW?
 
@yuggib and not naively?
 
8:44 PM
@DanielSank You think that question is bad, check THIS out
 
@ACuriousMind Where the heck does the word "manifold" even come from
 
manifold
manifol
manifo
manif
mani
man
ma
mac
maca
macar
macare
macaren
macarena
2
That's where it comes from, clearly
 
What
 
9:06 PM
@BernardMeurer Whahahahahahaha!
This is the funniest post I've seen here for a while.
 
@BernardMeurer That has to have been put together to prove a point.
"See, people will believe anything if you tell them it's science!"
 
@dmckee I'm never too sure about that. There are things I hear on my daily life that make my scientific pancreas bleed
@DanielSank Glad you liked my deduction hahaha
 
@DanielSank what does that have to do with a space locally homeomorphic to the reals?
 
9:24 PM
@BernardMeurer
we should get ACM in a Skype call tonight
 
@0celo7 He never joins
 
@BernardMeurer because his mic was broken
now he has a mic
 
Sounds good to me then
 
@yuggib Do PDE people actually use exterior differential systems or is it something geometry people came up with as an "application" of their nonsense
 
9:42 PM
The new mobile chat is pretty good :)
 
THERE'S A MOBILE CHAT?
 
@user685252 No, it isn't.
@BernardMeurer Yes. You're not missing much.
 
What's the name of it?
 
New mobile chat :P
 
So it's not an app or something like that?
 
9:48 PM
Nope, it's automatically used if supported.
There is an option to return to the full site.
 
IKR kinda forced it
It'll take some getting used to
 
Wish it was an app
 
Ya they should've built it into the other site app
The regular app I mean
 
9:57 PM
@GPhys are you still waiting for schools?
 
@FenderLesPaul Seriously?
 
10:14 PM
I think he's still waiting for UPen
 
@user685252 I don't care about that
 
I'm still waiting for UPenn
and all the others as well
;-;
 
I guess that's why they call it a waiting "game." :P
 
Well this is the worst game ever then
and look, I've played cricket before
 
All you can do is hope for the best and expect the worst, as they say...
 
10:25 PM
I'm currently smacking walls to deal with anxiety
 
You gotta deal with it in your own way.
 
@skullpetrol now you're just trying to sound like a self-help book
 
You forgot the "old woman" part :P
 
that too
 
10:36 PM
@FenderLesPaul yeah
 
@GPhys ::hug::
 
11:36 PM
@ChrisWhite what do you know about the Gauss theorem on Lorentz manifolds
 
@DanielSank You know, I don't think it is bad, either. I just think it is hopelessly idealistic ;)
Oh god I have 38 upvotes for "Muons survive to reach the Earth because of time dilation"
 
:/
 
That's literally more than one upvote per second of thought that went into that answer
 
And I've been sitting here for an hour figuring out orientations of Lorentz hypersurfaces for something that will get me maybe 2 votes
For some reason EVERY GR book simply states this
No one has ever proved it
 
It's now in the top 5 of my answers. That saddens me.
 
11:50 PM
@ACuriousMind Ugh, I got 99% of the way through an answer and am hopelessly stuck
Can I give it to you, you finish it and post it
 
@0celo7 What's the issue?
 
5
Q: Stokes theorem in Lorentzian manifolds

faeroI've fallen accross the following curious property (in p.10 of these lectures): in order to be able to apply Stokes theorem in Lorentzian manifolds, we must take normals to the boundary of the volume we integrate on that are : inward pointing (with respect to the interior of the volume I guess,...

 
If it's some weird shit on Lorentz manifold, I guarantee nothing
...Stokes' theorem doesn't even depend on a metric
 
My attempt
@ACuriousMind It does actually
because the orientation or some shit
I'm not sure now
 
Integration over chains does not care for a metric or an orientation at all. $\int_M \mathrm{d}\omega = \int_{\partial M} \omega$ doesn't care for metrics, orientations, or anything besides the smooth structure
 
11:53 PM
I want to say that $i_N\mu_\mathcal{M}(e_0,e_2,e_3)<0$ because you have to move the $N$ past the $e_0$
@ACuriousMind Stokes theorem only works if you have a consistent orientation on both sides
And when doing the Gauss theorem, you get problems with the induced volume form
it could be the negative of what it should be
@ACuriousMind Stokes theorem holds as you wrote it, yes
 
@0celo7 Just pull the forms back to the orientation double cover, there everything is orientable.
Doesn't change the value of the integral one bit
 
but we don't want the volume form to be $-\sqrt{h}dx^1\wedge\cdots$
@ACuriousMind so?
you still have to pick an orientation
the manifold is orientable, that's not the issue
 
Ah, I see what you mean
 
@ACuriousMind So I want to show that if we pick $N$ to stick outwards, then $i_N\mu$ is negative
 
Yes, you have to choose to sign of the integral, essentially. It's as arbitrary as deciding whether the Lebesgue integral over $[a,b]$ is $\int_a^b$ or $\int_b^a$ in terms of the Riemann integral
 
11:57 PM
@ACuriousMind I know
but there is a "proper" choice
it's so that the volume form is positive, I know that
 
@0celo7 Doesn't that just follow from the sign in the Hodge star?
 
but I'm having the hardest time showing it
@ACuriousMind where the fuck is a Hodge star?
 
The way you get the vector calculus formulation of Stokes' theorem with the oriented normal from the differential forms formulation is by considering expressions in which a Hodge star appears
 
o.o
 
Let me think
 
11:59 PM
well, $(\star\mathrm{d}\star X^\flat)^\sharp =(-1)^s\operatorname{div}X$
$s$ is the signature of the metric
 
Ask yourself this: How does the statement $\int_V f\mathrm{d}V = \int_{\partial V} \nabla f \cdot \mathrm{d}\vec S$ follow from Stokes' theorem for forms?
 
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