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17:00
@vzn gotta be honest, I cannot follow that. Too many 8+ letter words, too few equations :-P (I'm probably just too tired at the moment)
@DavidZ parton was Feynman's term, quark was Gell-Mann's term. Gell-Mann won.
vzn
vzn
@DavidZ "np". it does mention some physicists lol
@TerryBollinger yeah, though I think they weren't talking about exactly the same thing - i.e. the underlying math was a little different. Feynman's parton model still comes up on occasion, and it's describing something not quite the same as the modern QFT view of quarks and gluons.
@DavidZ here's a truly off-the-wall question: Have you ever encountered a color-charge model in which up quarks have two color charges, and down quarks one anti-color charge? It would be very, very early. It all balances out of course, but that doesn't mean it fits actual data.
My field is kind of right on the boundary between classical and quantum field theories, so I see bits of both of them depending on which papers I'm reading
vzn
vzn
17:03
@yuggib have worked at length on discrete differential eqns (number theory). also reminds me, ACuriousMind says he is nearly a mathematical physicist.
@DavidZ was that your thesis area?
@TerryBollinger huh weird indeed. No I have not heard of that.
@TerryBollinger yeah - my thesis was on the same stuff I'm working on now
@DavidZ there was some alternative color-distribution theories I've seen mentioned in papers by e.g. Glashow from the 1970s, but they are hard to find now.
@TerryBollinger What do you mean, "have two color charges"? Is it an SU(3) model with different rep for the quark, or with a different gauge group?
Probably because they didn't get much traction. SU(3) in the manner of the standard model explains everything well enough and is simpler, after all.
vzn
vzn
17:07
@TerryBollinger what do you mean Gell-Mann "won"? are the terms nearly interchangeable or was there some kind of debate/ difference etc
@ACuriousMind heh, i can't even answer than, it was just a response Glashow gave to a question I think? But the "color charge per 1/3 electric, with the same sign" gives the right answers at the particle level, for whatever that's worth. I imagine there are many such equivalences.
@vzn Feynman and Gell-Mann were officemates with a very prickly relationship. Both were sniffing at the quark concept, and Feynman preferred his own term, but quark ended up dominating.
Anyway, I hate to pull out of a discussion on particle physics, but it is 1 AM here and I need to get to sleep.
vzn
vzn
@TerryBollinger but is it just terminology? it doesnt seem like a big deal if so. ps you know how quarks were named right? (trivia...)
17:09
See you for the next chat session in two weeks! (or before that, y'know, whenever)
@vzn at that time, it was just terminology. The meanings of the terms have clearly diverged since then.
@DavidZ bye!
@vzn Three quarks for Muster Mark! Gell-Mann always was (is) fascinated by words, including his own self-modified name.
vzn
vzn
(this is great to get some clarification/ etymology of "parton" term, was wondering that myself awhile back, after reading DZs blog...)
@ACuriousMind
Preliminary calculation:
I agree that the 'speed' of the change has to be ~c. If I understood the problem and the formulation of time dependent PT correctly, then our $V(t)$ is $f(t)H_{int}$

Then no matter what $H_{int}$ is (as long it is bound), it cannot show up in the integration (thus kill off all higher order terms) when $t\geq t_{switch}$, thus the coefficients of the wavefunction to the mth order will be $c_n$ for $t\leq t_{switch}$ and $c_n^{(0)}$ for $t\geq t_{swtich}$
@vzn there are some good sections in Feynman histories on it, but alas, I have no recollection of which ones.
vzn
vzn
@TerryBollinger actually just noticed wikipedia has some detail based on Gell Mann book en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark#Etymology
> Nevertheless, "parton" remains in use as a collective term for the constituents of hadrons (quarks, antiquarks, and gluons).
17:15
@vzn this paragraph from that Wikipedia article summarizes it nicely:
"...Physicists were reluctant to firmly identify these objects with quarks at the time, instead calling them "partons"—a term coined by Richard Feynman. The objects that were observed at SLAC would later be identified as up and down quarks as the other flavors were discovered. Nevertheless, "parton" remains in use as a collective term for the constituents of hadrons (quarks, antiquarks, and gluons)."
I've been repetitively redundant, again!
Later all. Parton is such sweet sorrow... :)
vzn
vzn
Q. which is the ooh-la-la particle?
A. Dolly Parton!
@Secret ← experimental evidence against reductionism and in favor of (to the contrary) emergence!
17:33
Am I old for preferring emoticons to emojis
There's no emoji that really captures ":P"
Also ":/" is not well represented either.
17:54
@0celo7 Well, as a data point, I prefer emoticons, and I'm older than you
So, yes, you may be old
@ACuriousMind I don't like using emojis in texts because they don't accurately reflect my emotions, but I'm not the hacker named 4chan so I don't use emoticons
So I end up using emojis
:(
I don't follow, why does you not being the hacker named 4chan mean you don't use emoticons?
@ACuriousMind Beats me
I imagine mine host was going somewhere with that, but I cannot know the intent of his mind.
wat
You had another stroke?
18:17
Nae my goodest Sir Bajoran
@ACuriousMind how come 5 reflections off of a 90% reflecting surface yields an intensity of about 10^-5. shouldn't it be 0.9^5 which is about 60%
@ACuriousMind I need no stroke to realize that mine host operates independently of me.
In fact, it is mine host that sucks at analysis, not I.
@no_choice99 Uh...I'd agree with you it should be 0.9^5
@0celo7 I see. Trying to read about void swelling you looked into the void, and it drove you insane.
ok @ACuriousMind I thought i was missing something. feel free to edit your comment
(or not)
18:36
@ACuriousMind I asked a grad student what that was, he had no clue
@no_choice99 Edit my comment? Which comment?
However the wise old doctoral student who was there knew.
@no_choice99 I haven't commented on anything about reflection. Are you perhaps confusing me with CuriousOne?
I am @ACuriousMind
lol sorry
It happens, you're not the first one :P
18:41
haha
There was one comment thread where both I and CuriousOne commented. OP thought I was constantly changing my name to confuse them
That we're two different users is apparently a difficult concept
cmon UCSB
cmooon
I thought you were way more relaxed? :P
I actually am haha
you should've seen me a week ago :p
I'm also just bored
19:02
@ACuriousMind In order to satisfy your curiosity, note that Mr. Morton refers to himself as "mine host" throughout his epic The New English Canaan.
@ACuriousMind Also "void swelling" is a phenomenon caused by elements getting knocked out of a crystal lattice. The interstitial atoms tend to "clump," causing the effect.
> J. SU, C. ZHANG, Z. J. WANG, J. T. ZHANG, H. SUN,
C. C. JU, K. L. MIN, X. M. LU,∗ F. Z. HUANG, X. N. YING,
AND J. S. ZHU∗
Wonder if it's a Chinese paper...
 
2 hours later…
20:45
my ability to kill the chat is impressive
> Des Moines, Iowa (CNN)Hillary Clinton says she's a "proven fighter." Bernie Sanders says that while experience is important, "it is not the only thing" that Democratic voters should weigh. And Martin O'Malley took off his jacket.
#rekt
Bush III is at 5%
GG
> "He really does lie. He's so nervous," Trump added. "I saw him the other day. He is so nervous. He is such a mess. His polls have gone down. People realize that he probably can't even run for president. He was born in Canada."
Canadia BTFO
> The ad also shows Trump at a rally appearing to call Iowans "stupid." Trump responded on "Good Morning America" that he was simply referring to Iowans -- and Americans as a whole - who were supporting candidates other than himself.
Iowa BTFO :D
"Sit this one out, boy"
GG CNN. Post two polls side by side with completely different conclusions.
21:30
@yuggib Analysis: divergence of sequences, boundedness of convergent sequences, algebraic limit theorem. PDE: Heat equation on an interval with Neumann boundary conditions, heat equation on a loop, heat equation with Robin boundary conditions.
I wonder how many times the prof can write $X''+\lambda X=0$ before he goes insane.
22:03
maybe he's already gone insane
why
dunno
then you must be a troll
who knows
never met a troll
@yuggib of course you have
22:07
You're talking to @0celo7 and you've never met a troll?
Impossible
@BernardMeurer sftu kid
At least you're my favorite troll @0celo7
never met it
dude wft
why are you posting my Facebook profile pic
stop stalking me
@0celo7 What kind of field theory is WFT?
waffle field theory?
22:10
@ACuriousMind Witten Field Theory
obviously, duh
Ohhhhhhhhh
@ACuriousMind seriously?
I concede that Witten is better :P
you Germans have no imagination
He gets a theory to go with his medal :P
22:12
it could also be Weinberg Field Theory
or Wald Field Theory
Wonka Field Theory
no
@ACuriousMind who is Wonka
some QFT guy?
never heard of him
Willy
what
@0celo7 You don't know Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?
22:14
@ACuriousMind heard of it, never watched it
It's also a book :P
never heard of it
it's hard to watch all of these movies when the average analysis problem takes me 2 weeks
@ACuriousMind Suppose I have some mass hanging on a cable which is fixed at the two ends. Am I stupid or is it not possible to find the tension in the cable?
I can find the component perpendicular to the ground, but not the other one.
I don't know elementary mechanics in English, what exactly is the tension?
Tension
I dunno :P
The force on the cable
22:23
is perhaps the horizontal component zero?
You can only find the tension if you know the angle between the cable to the right of the mass and the left of the mass, and where it is attached
wtf
doesn't the second law just give $T_x-T_x=0$?
($x$ is horizontal)
Yes. So does that tell you what $T_x$ is?
Uh, no?
vertical is just $2T_y-mg=0$
Exactly, but you can determine it - you know the vertical component of the tension, and you know that the tension itself is parallel to the cable
So if you know the direction of the cable, you can determine the tension
22:25
o.o
sigh
you could have just said "you're stupid"
One way to give this information would be to give the angle at the point where the mass is hanging. It is intuitvely obvious that the tension is higher the "straighter" the cable is.
I understand it
I'm stupid, that's my issue
@ACuriousMind german intuition too strong...
@ACuriousMind Now I can't do a geometry problem I literally could do in German middle school
That's sad
2
@ACuriousMind you finally agree with me
I dunno why I'm getting dumber
@ACuriousMind ask me a German middle school question pls
Solve $3x^2 + 4x +8 = 3x-24$.
22:34
...
liar
middle school ends after 8th grade
@GBeau looks like ucsb didn't come out today
How the heck am I supposed to know what you mean by "middle school"? :P
It's a school in the middle
@ACuriousMind 6-8th grade
also that has no real roots, nice try
@FenderLesPaul We don't have a dedicated school for that. We have elementary from grades 1-4 and "continuing school" from grades 5-10 (or 5-12 or 5-13)
22:36
Ah I see
or is it 5th?
dunno when middle school starts
I know it ends before the 9th grade
depends on the school
some schools are 5th to 8th others are 6th to 8th
some are even 7th to 8th
@ACuriousMind what's a typical question in German middle school
Geez, I don't remember much from that time
too much partying?
22:41
lol, not yet
I just...don't recall much specifics. In math we did...math? Linear functions, maybe?
warst du nicht schon trinkfest in der achten Klasse?
@ACuriousMind That's what's in my textbook that I still have
And I couldn't tell you what we did in the science classes like, at all
Me neither.
I remember the guy sitting next to me making a lamp explode
It was a 3.5 V lamp and he connected it to the wall outlet...
I don't have those books anymore, but I kept math for some reason.
lel
22:43
I also remember that we talked about Rome and Greece in history
@ACuriousMind how do I solve $$\frac{mg}{2\frac{k-h}{\sqrt{l^2+(k-h)^2}}}=\sigma A$$ for $h$
@0celo7 You solve it skillfully and with grace ;)
ah, the computer algebra system
good choice
It's not hard to do by hand!
yeah just like analysis isn't hard
getting real tired of that comment
22:45
Multiply by $k-h$, square the equation, and you get a quadratic equation in $h$, if I see that correctly
quadratic equation?
dude that solution would be horrible
you have to overcome your fear of quadratic equations :P
why
I can't remember the formula, it's too horrible
just like I can't remember the definition of equivalence class, moduli, etc.
@ACuriousMind think of it this way: the quadratic formula is to me as the Riemann tensor in terms of the metric and its derivatives is to you
22:52
@0celo7 If you can't remember the formula, then just complete the square!
What makes you think I can complete the square off the top of my head??
Well, I don't expect you to do it in your head, but on a piece of paper that shouldn't be too hard
off the top of my head != in my head
Even if you have to scrawl the binomial formula in the corner every time
why would I need the binomial formula?
22:55
...because you want to complete a square, i.e. write the equation as $(x-a)^2 = b$.
For $(x-a)^2$ one commonly uses the binomial formula
ugh, this is too complicated...
@ACuriousMind Holy shit $F_y=F_x\tan\theta$
this makes my life so much easier
why did no one tell me this
Ok, so the rod stretches by $$\frac{L_0}{EA}\sqrt{W^2+\left(\frac{W}{g}\omega^2\sqrt{L^2-g^2/\omega^4}\right‌​)^2}$$
that's just ridiculous
that terrible feeling when you have to convert units
23:35
@ACuriousMind Do you use the harpoon to denote the restriction to a subset or just \vert?
"the harpoon"?
@ACuriousMind $\upharpoonright$
(That is, I use \vert and its variations. What's the harpoon?
Uh...I've never seen anyone draw such a hook on any vertical line
ok
> A circular rod fabricated from a 6061 T6 aluminum alloy
Are you kidding me
I don't want to look up material information for this thing
@ACuriousMind hey do you know what "void swelling" is
23:59
@0celo7 I need to tell you something

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