The h Bar

GBeau

00:12

@FenderLesPaul oh god Johns Hopkins sent out (nothing for me...)

oh. god.

guest

Try not to stress over it.

It ain't over till it's over.

FenderLesPaul

@GBeau don't check gradcafe dude

0celo7

00:44

@FenderLesPaul is a perfect GRE common?

FenderLesPaul

@0celo7 for international students yes

it's ubiquitous

not for domestic students

0celo7

what

FenderLesPaul

but it's more common to get a perfect score on GREs than on the SATs

what?

0celo7

wtf how are people getting into PhD programs with no pubs

@FenderLesPaul why does everyone from not US get a perfect score

Whoa Michigan Ann Arbor was sending out stuff a week ago

RIP

FenderLesPaul

because undergrad research is less common outside of the states and US grad programs don't always know the credibility of international colleges so for international students the PGRE is one of the most important (if not most important) factors

whereas for domestic students it's not as important as letters of rec and research

0celo7

00:48

ah

so they just try harder?

FenderLesPaul

they basically take a year off

and do nothing but study for PGRE

0celo7

I thought you meant they were just so much better

oh ok

FenderLesPaul

yeah if you look at schools that take a lot of internationals

vs schools that don't

the average PGRE of accepted students changes quite a bit

0celo7

huh

is there a really big stigma in physics/math to not go to the same school for BS/MS/PhD?

FenderLesPaul

yeah

well I don't know about MS

but definitely for BS/PhD

which sucks

0celo7

00:52

huh

FenderLesPaul

because my BS school has people I'd love to work for

0celo7

The NE dept head went to OSU for FOUR degrees

FenderLesPaul

who the fuck gets four degrees

0celo7

BS, MS, PhD and MBA

FenderLesPaul

oh

0celo7

00:53

My research prof went to Heidelberg for 2 degrees

Back when he went they only did a 6 year program equivalent to BS/MS

So really he went there all the way through

FenderLesPaul

also it would just suck to stay in the same place for 10 years

0celo7

and then he got a physics postdoc at Ann Arbor

FenderLesPaul

especially in your 20s

0celo7

you're just a hipster

FenderLesPaul

fight me

irl

0celo7

00:57

you know where to find me...

guest

What's wrong with staying in the same place?

0celo7

meet me in front of Ayres Hall Tuesday-Thursday 10:30AM

FenderLesPaul

Aight I'll be there

with my GR crew

0celo7

I'll break you and then prove some analysis theorems

GR crew?

What are they gonna do, throw hairy balls at me?

FenderLesPaul

yeah my crew of 20-30 somethings that are all skinny, awkward, and study GR

guest

00:59

lol

FenderLesPaul

@guest idk I just tend to get bored of being in the same place for a long time

I would hate to stay in Ithaca for another 6 years for example

0celo7

I now understand the first 4 pages of Jost's analysis book

FenderLesPaul

I understand the first 4 pages of your eulogy

3

SAVAGE

0celo7

....

holy FUCK that was brutal

guest

Macho man SAVAGE

0celo7

01:02

:(

dude you wanted to fight me, not murder me

guest

Don't cry Elizabeth ;P

FenderLesPaul

@0celo7 I love you

when you cry I cry

eats cereal

guest

The whole world cries

0537

lol

0celo7

@guest what

@FenderLesPaul in a weird way?

FenderLesPaul

01:05

@0celo7 the love or the cereal eating?

0celo7

I just realized I missed dinner at the dining hall...great

@FenderLesPaul both

guest

You never heard of randy the macho man and Elizabeth?

0celo7

Nae

guest

:-/

0celo7

there are many things I have not heard of

like @FenderLesPaul ever winning a fight

guest

01:07

Or the redskins winning a Super Bowl ;P

FenderLesPaul

@0celo7 I won this fight

tis the first of many

0celo7

who are you

guest

:O

0celo7

there is only one man who would insult the Skins

that one asshole who still likes the Cowboys

@FenderLesPaul nope

your GR nerds got distracted by the cheerleading squad

FenderLesPaul

handegg?

@0celo7 haha what a lie

0celo7

01:10

?

FenderLesPaul

my GR peeps wouldn't know a girl if they were in a gender studies class

0celo7

the cheerleading squad has dudes on it too

they were the interesting ones for your squad

FenderLesPaul

dude those guys are fucking tanks

0celo7

not really

FenderLesPaul

16/11/2015 - Robert Wald - Dynamic and Thermodynamic Stability of Black Holes and Black Branes

►

the only guy I'll ever be interested in

0celo7

01:12

sigh :P

FenderLesPaul

there's a picture of him from the 70s in one of Kip Thorne's books

he was pretty good looking

0celo7

deleted because of quote potential

such a power could be easily misused

@guest IRL he's not even my type

FenderLesPaul

you just don't understand what we have

0celo7

you look homeless!

guest

T. M. I.

FenderLesPaul

01:14

I'm a professional meditator

0celo7

srs, @guest why insult the Skins

do you know from whence I hail

FenderLesPaul

arkansas

guest

No insult.

We just beat you in your last Superbowl appearance.

0celo7

when was I in the Superbowl??

FenderLesPaul

you were in the crowd

cheering with a hotdog stuffed up your nose

0celo7

01:19

@guest unless I'm mistaken we won 1991

guest

You hand egg types stay on your side of the pond :P

0celo7

@FenderLesPaul I wasn't even born then

no_choice99

sup dudes

FenderLesPaul

@0celo7 so you say

dude are you a millennial?

0celo7

what's that

define that term pls

FenderLesPaul

01:21

oh wait nvm you're born in 1997

0celo7

I'm legal brah

FenderLesPaul

funny enough you're my brother's age

0celo7

is he hotter than you

FenderLesPaul

possibly

0celo7

but I didn't think that was possible

FenderLesPaul

01:22

definitely does better in that department than I do

:/

have you ever used the cute emojis on Facebook?

like the ones with the cats and cactuses and shit

0celo7

aren't those standard

also, it's CACTI

FenderLesPaul

yeah

they're so cute

0celo7

uncultured swine

🌵

FenderLesPaul

I was brought up in the streets

0celo7

like that?

FenderLesPaul

01:23

you don't know what I's been through

like that

so fucking cute omg

0celo7

whaaaaaaaaat

I need to be proving theorems, not talking here

4

FenderLesPaul

today was one of the most unproductive days ever

0celo7

yeah

FenderLesPaul

I didn't do anything but somehow ate a shit ton

and my professor moved group meeting to Monday

so nothing's getting done for another 3 days

0celo7

u 🐷

FenderLesPaul

01:26

I'm Wilbur

0celo7

huh?

FenderLesPaul

dude have you read Charlotte's Web

Wilbur is the pig/main character

it's like one of the best children's novels ever

0celo7

huh

FenderLesPaul

taught me about friendship and stuff

0celo7

never heard of it

FenderLesPaul

01:28

who's the uncultured swine now

0celo7

@FenderLesPaul I've been taught friendship is antithetical to theorem proving

FenderLesPaul

Charlotte's Web

Charlotte's Web is a children's novel by American author E. B. White and illustrated by Garth Williams; it was published in October 15, 1952, by Harper & Brothers. The novel tells the story of a pig named Wilbur and his friendship with a barn spider named Charlotte. When Wilbur is in danger of being slaughtered by the farmer, Charlotte writes messages praising Wilbur (such as "Some Pig") in her web in order to persuade the farmer to let him live. Written in White's dry, low-key manner, Charlotte's Web is considered a classic of children's literature, enjoyable to adults as well as children. The...

0celo7

fucking spider, that's why I didn't read it

FenderLesPaul

#relationship goals

0celo7

also the movie was shit

FenderLesPaul

01:29

do you know someone who's just happy all the time

0celo7

Not really, no.

FenderLesPaul

I think I ran through like 5 different conversations in 2 minutes

0celo7

holy shit how is it 8:30 already

what have I been doing since 5???

guest

Chatting

0celo7

no

who are you again?

guest

01:31

guest

0celo7

more specifically?

guest

at the hbar :P

FenderLesPaul

01:46

@0celo7 did I ever show you my email exchange with Wald from a couple of months ago?

he replied on a freaking Sunday and sounded like he was super old

0celo7

wat

well Lee wrote me an email at 2:30

I guess he is in Seattle so that's 11:30

but still

pretty late

0537

@FenderLesPaul @0celo7 If you guys are bored want to do a skype call???

Like before.

FenderLesPaul

"Robert M. Wald <[email protected]>
11/6/15

to me
Dear (my name),
If I (or Zoupas) did any such calculation, I have no memory of the results. If you are referring to the last paragraph of our paper, it certainly doesn't sound to me like we did any calculation. I did not pursue this further after we wrote the paper.
Bob Wald"

He sounds like he hates me

:p

0celo7

what is (my name)

FenderLesPaul

I don't know your name

0celo7

01:50

bull

Ryan Unger

everyone knows my name

even JD knows my name

@0537 no

0537

@0celo7 =(

0celo7

oh my god it's 8:50 where did the last 20 minutes go

FenderLesPaul

I also asked him if he was taking students, upon suggestion by my professor

and he replied with basically 'Yeah I'm taking students. Kthxbai."

>.<

0celo7

I'm taking students, but not you. You're...strange. Kthxbai

FenderLesPaul

LOL dude how funny would that have been

cries

a friend of mine emailed a prof asking him what kind of projects he has available

the prof said to fuck off

like no joke

0celo7

01:53

literally "fuck off"?

FenderLesPaul

He asked if the prof could possibly list projects he has available or ideas he's interested in and such

and the prof replied with "No."

that was it

0celo7

@dmckee So...are NSF, etc. grants specific to which type of student can be paid using them?

0537

I know a prof who uses 1 word e-mail replies.

FenderLesPaul

you have to be a citizen or permanent resident

if that's what you mean

0celo7

Because the prof who leads the group I wanted to work for said he doesn't have enough money right now to take on a new student and is even cutting back the other ones.

But this was specific to the undergrads.

dmckee

01:56

@0celo7 Don't know. I've never read up it. My bosses got DOE money, and their grants typically did specify the difference between student support and post-doc support.

0celo7

@dmckee Well, I know we have DOE money too...but now I'm out of a job.

So I don't know what to do.

dmckee

But I don't know either if that is always the case or if student support is distinct for graduate and undergraduate students.

@0celo7 Ouch. Sorry to hear that.

FenderLesPaul

@0celo7 I gotchu fam

dmckee

One thing to do is ask your erstwhile boss to ask around for you.

0celo7

@dmckee I did.

dmckee

01:57

That almost certainly means starting on something entirely different. Like a larch.

0celo7

I'm specifically looking for a summer job somewhere.

0537

Work for free?

dmckee

@0celo7 I'm not sure if NSF's REU program specifies a particular year in school, but if not you might be a good candidate.

0celo7

As sad as it sounds, I can mouch off of my parents during the fall/spring. But they've made it clear I'm on my own for summers. And I have to take summer classes.

dmckee

Hmmm ... REU won't leave you time for classes, but it pays and it is an education in and of itself.

0celo7

01:59

@dmckee I'm really concerned that my double major will end up taking 5 years.

dmckee

@0537 It can be surprisingly hard to work for free these days. Too many people have be sued by one time interns.

FenderLesPaul

@0celo7 look for internships

0celo7

@FenderLesPaul I applied for some

They don't want freshmen

FenderLesPaul

oh

0537

@0celo7 But you're different from the average freshman.

You can tell them that.

0celo7

02:01

@0537 For the last fucking time, stop that.

0537

:o

FenderLesPaul

I'm different y'all

I'm purty

dmckee

@0537 He's got to get someone authoritative to tell them or they'll brush it off. Even at my school I meet plenty of kids who think that they are all that and a bag of chips but aren't even a pickle.

FenderLesPaul

@0celo7 ok well REUs are friendlier to freshman

than internships

although I don't know about the field(s) you're interested in

fuck now I want a pickle

0celo7

Holy crap these REUs are for undergraduates

What's the point...

FenderLesPaul

02:04

?

you get paid

0537

@0celo7 what about surf.

FenderLesPaul

so you can feed yourself

0celo7

I'd never get accepted for any of these

FenderLesPaul

and you can work on a project

it's true that it's harder to get accepted freshman year than later years

but if you have good letters of rec then you can definitely bring forward a fighting change

0celo7

Dude I'd be surprised if I got any of these as a grad student

dmckee

02:05

@0celo7 That is what the "U" stands for.

FenderLesPaul

also if you're from a school where research opportunities are sparse then it increases your chances a lot

which may or may not be true in your case

0celo7

I'm not

No one wants Freshmen

First question "have you taken sophomore nuclear classes"

FenderLesPaul

yeah they'll require pre-req classes

0celo7

Or in some cases "I didn't see you in my 500 level class"

FenderLesPaul

if you don't have those they'll reject you

0celo7

02:06

"oh you're an undergrad"

"sorry"

dmckee

@0celo7 Some of them might make an exception if you have a strong enough recommendation. But you'll have to get your ex-boss to take and active part in protecting your application.

0celo7

@dmckee I need to talk to him. His email was very vague.

FenderLesPaul

worst case scenario you get a normal job

for the summer

0celo7

Can I forward it to you so you can take a look?

dmckee

@0celo7 Yeah. But I haven't seen the competing pool, so I won't be able to say more than generalities.

0celo7

02:09

@dmckee Thanks, and I'll remove the names. Not sure if these are considered "private"

FenderLesPaul

dude I always feel bad getting paid over the summer to do theory

theory just doesn't warrant a paycheck

dmckee

@FenderLesPaul Well, results warrant a paycheck. But it's always depressing when you've been doing foundation work or puttering around preliminaries for a few months and don't seem to be producing anything.

That happens in experiment, too.

FenderLesPaul

but in experiment you get tangible results so it feels warranted

0celo7

@dmckee Sent.

FenderLesPaul

whereas in theory it seems more like getting paid to get results that like 2 other people care about

like getting paid to work on wormholes in 6 dimensions or something

0celo7

02:14

I responded to the second email saying that I am interested in a summer position and asked for a meeting time. (I don't think he's teaching anything this semester so he's never around his office.)

dmckee

Yikes! That's tough.

0celo7

is that @me or...

dmckee

@0celo7 Yeah, you. Not only does it seem doubtful that he'll have any money for you anytime soon, but he's going to be trying to help several of those other students get alternate arrangements, too.

A really critical question is: has his group had any significant papers lately? Are there any in preparation now?

0celo7

I sat through three conference-worthy paper reviews at the end of last semester.

dmckee

If he's running short on startup money then he needs to secure more external funding to continue as he has been, and the argument for that is generally "We're producing more per dollar than the other groups you fund."

0celo7

02:17

He also is hiring two new grad students.

(Well, he hired one already and is getting another one)

@dmckee The way I understand it is there aren't enough people to write all of the papers

dmckee

@0celo7 OK. That means there is hope. But he may simply be overextended on undergrads. How close are the others to graduation?

0celo7

The group is 95% small-scale experiment

dmckee

If a couple are moving on then you just have to ride out the summer.

0celo7

i.e. they run experiments at Fermilab, ORNL, etc.

Juniors and sophomores.

dmckee

On the other hand if they are all juniors he's going to have this same problem come fall.

0celo7

02:19

@dmckee We honestly have piles and piles of experiments that no one has the time to write papers about

The prof is very well connected and he just gets sent samples that other people don't want anymore for whatever reason. I was to take over a dead project and get a paper out of it.

dmckee

Well, worst case is get a straight job (flipping burgers or something) and ask to work for free. But like I said above, many unis have rules against that. In that case ask to work for course credit.

0celo7

Yeah...

dmckee

If you turn our a publication your argument for being not just a typical freshman is strongly bolstered.

0celo7

Well that was the hope, but he didn't want to give me a project until I was officially signed on.

FenderLesPaul

why is "project" in quotes?

0celo7

02:22

Don't know. Ghosts.

Damn gauge fields

ACuriousMind

You could just choose a "ghost-free gauge" :P

0celo7

I'm starting to see why many people are allergic to jobs

I'm begging to work

FenderLesPaul

I dont understand aren't there others you can ask?

0celo7

I've asked all the ones who do interesting stuff

I might try one of the fusion guys again

He said he might consider a second semester freshman

I can't work for anyone in the math department

I'm not a physics major

FenderLesPaul

try applied physics

or engineering physics

0celo7

02:26

I was actually doing pure physics in the nuke department

FenderLesPaul

random question, as an aside, does anyone know of a good reference on effective field theory of higher spin fields?

0celo7

I'm not even hungry

That's how bummed I am

FenderLesPaul

hugs

ACuriousMind

@FenderLesPaul In which cases do higher spin fields arise in an effective theory? (i.e. why are you asking about that?)

FenderLesPaul

@ACuriousMind I meant as in IR theories which come from integrating out higher spin fields in the UV

I phrased it poorly

ACuriousMind

02:32

I see

FenderLesPaul

I'm trying to extend my project on causality constraints for QFTs to such effective field theories

but I don't have a good understanding of how to produce terms in the IR by integrating out higher spin fields

ACuriousMind

can't help there

0celo7

@ACuriousMind sigh...I'm completely lost on how to find $\sup [a,b]\cap\mathbb{Q}$

FenderLesPaul

nudge nudge wink wink

0celo7

$a,b\in \mathbb{R}, a<b$

ACuriousMind

02:40

hehe

@0celo7 Do you know what it is, but can't prove it, or do you not know what it is?

0celo7

@ACuriousMind My handwave says $b$.

I can't prove it.

ACuriousMind

Okay. Can you prove that the sup has to be $\leq b$?

FenderLesPaul

CAN YOU?

ACuriousMind

@FenderLesPaul Yes :P

FenderLesPaul

ok :p

0celo7

02:47

@ACuriousMind Call the set $T$. If $b$ is in the set, it must be an upper bound. If $b$ is not in the set, then it is still an upper bound because any rational greater than $b$ is not in the set.

Or don't call it $T$ because I never used the symbol

@FenderLesPaul being invited to something, I expect SJW roomie will be there...sigh

FenderLesPaul

@0celo7 convert him/her

to a reasonable person

0celo7

@ACuriousMind Hmm, do I end up using the density of $\mathbb{Q}$ in $\mathbb{R}$?

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Yes, you do

0celo7

@FenderLesPaul ok we will watch Goldfinger 20 times

FenderLesPaul

I love Goldfinger

0celo7

02:52

@ACuriousMind Ok, suppose $\sup T< b$. Then use the density of the rationals to find a $k\in\mathbb{Q}$ such that $\sup T<k<b$. But this would mean $\sup T$ is not an upper bound. By contradiction, $\sup T=b$.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 See, you can do it :)

0celo7

This is hard :(

The problem sets are the trivial problems in the book

ACuriousMind

You really don't wanna know how many hours I spent on my analysis problem sheets back then

FenderLesPaul

like literally on top of

hehe

ACuriousMind

@FenderLesPaul Yes, I was jumping up and down on them in frustration

FenderLesPaul

02:55

:p

0celo7

@ACuriousMind well I'm taking the less advanced analysis course

my advisor said he tells most people to take the more advanced one

but I'm so bad at proofs that I'm taking this one

@ACuriousMind the dude does operator algebras for a living, he pretty much died when I said analysis is hard

he wanted to know how I was discussing Arnold and others with other profs but I can't do simple analysis :(

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 He's had a few years to get used to it :P

0celo7

apparently the "news" of me got around to some of the profs

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