The h Bar

0celo7

00:00

@DanielSank ah the bigoted goodness

Pies

00:21

Howdy

0celo7

you

have you learned some math yet

Pies

I wish.

Still ain't got any math classes yet

We haven't replaced the teacher

Fml...calc is the one subject I wanted to learn above anything else

So...

0celo7

just learn it

it's very intuitive

Pies

Easier said than done

Crap

Calc is a hell of a lot different from most things they teach you before it. I'd rather it be taught properly than confuse myself

0celo7

what's stopping you

well you're not getting taught properly, are you

calc is not hard if you had a good precalc teacher

Pies

00:31

I didn't have precalc

0celo7

you never had algebra 2?

Pies

Skipped precalc. The precalc teacher for most kids was my calc teacher. And she just left, so...

0celo7

if you skipped it

then you know the material

so you know everything necessary

go learn calc...

Pies

We were "speed-learning" it. So I got through the basics of precalc before she left in the first week.

Ya know, that's like me telling you "go learn about quantum mechanics" when you don't know what an electron is.

It's not easy

0celo7

@Pies quantum mechanics tells you what an electron is

Pies

00:34

...

Fair enough. But how about, "go learn how to read" when you're just learning how to speak?

0celo7

there are literate mutes

Pies

;-;

Just work with me...

My point is that, if calculus is one of the most important classes I'm going to use later in life, I'll need to learn it properly. That means I want to learn it in a structured order

When did ya learn calc?

@ChrisWhite Howdy

crap

0celo7

NEVER SAY HOWDY TO HIM

Pies

Er...?

user54412

00:49

The last person to say howdy to me ...

Pies

...yeah...?

.-.

0celo7

poor Kyle

poor, poor Kyle

Pies

._.

0celo7

HE WAS SO YOUNG

well, like 31, but compared to really old people he was young

Pies

k...?

0celo7

00:53

he doesn't come around here anymore

Pies

Oh XD

@0celo7 Say, what'd ya major in for college?

0celo7

gender studies

Pies

Oh...thought it'd be related to QM or something.

0celo7

wow, prejudicial much

Pies

Er, no, just expected most people on this site to have majored in physics of some sort

0celo7

00:58

so you "expect" me to fit to your standards

I bet you think I'm male as well

Pies

...I did?

user54412

...

Pies

No wait, not because of anything like that

Just because you got a guy as your profile pic, so I...I...

0celo7

uh-huh

Pies

.-.

0celo7

00:59

right

::wonders if CW is going to say anything::

user54412

0celo7s are male; 0cele77es are female.

Pies

Er...k?

user54412

@obe How often do you change your picture? And how often do you change the colorscheme?

Pies

So what're ya majoring in, Chris (if you're in college)

obe

@ChrisWhite I normally don't change it... though I changed it a lot in the last 3 weeks. The color scheme is always blue.

0celo7

01:01

he's supply chain management

user54412

wait, I just realized some people have bio information that pops up when you click their name in chat

user54412

@Pies Do I seem that young? ;)

Pies

Dunno, I'm still in high school so...

I guess I'm "that young" ._.

user54412

my profile contains my life story, all 3 sentences of it

0celo7

(mine too!)

why did you spoil it for him

Pies

01:06

Funny, I wanna major in astrophysics...and I'm looking at princeton

0celo7

I was waiting for him to find out on his own

sigh

has astrophysics increased GDP?

obe

sigh...

user54412

@0celo7 who exactly do you think came up with this whole "fusion power" idea?

0celo7

@ChrisWhite Donald J. Trump

user54412

exactly. astrophysicist

0celo7

01:09

in other news

@obe teach @Pies calculus

Pies

._.

obe

he can learn it on his own in like 3 days.

0celo7

he refuses for some reason

Pies

Sigh...a'right, how old were ya both when you learned calc?

0celo7

15

Pies

01:11

Wait how?

In sophomore year?

0celo7

yes

you just learn it...

Pies

In school?

0celo7

college

Pies

I meant sophomore year in high school?

0celo7

the answer won't change

Pies

01:13

So...ya learned it on you're own?

obe

@Pies same as 0celo7.

mit has some nice lectures.

Pies

;-;

obe

I watched them in 3 days on 3x speed.

and learned it... i guess.

user54412

I wish I could say I learned it at a normal age. But I was also around 15...

Pies

Sigh...so I gotta do something about this on my own?

Doesn't help that I skipped precalc

user54412

01:15

@Pies Either you have a teacher, or you have to do it on your own.

0celo7

probably the worst decision of your life

welcome to digging ditches

user54412

::wonders what precalc is::

Pies

Wasn't a decision. I did too good on my regent

0celo7

@ChrisWhite 1+3=4

stuff like that

Pies

They just skipped me.

user54412

01:16

regents? are those anywhere outside NY?

Pies

Nope.

Well, now I don't know calc or precalc. So trying to learn calc without any basic knowledge is unlikely

0celo7

what do you think is in precalc

Pies

I dunno, differentials, integrals maybe

0celo7

solve $ax^2+bx+c=0$

@Pies what the heck is in calculus then

Pies

Same thing, but more elaborate?

0celo7

01:19

no

can you solve that equation

Pies

er...does that problem need calc?

0celo7

...oh boy

Pies

Since ya ain't giving me any of the variables...

Goddammit...

0celo7

oh boy

Pies

...Did I fail?

0celo7

01:20

you failed Freshman math at my high school

Pies

.-.

I guess A = 0, B = 0, C = 0

0celo7

oh god

@ChrisWhite @obe say something

Pies

;-;

obe

idk what to say.

user54412

@Pies In all honesty, most people in the US who do take calc in HS retake it in college anyway. So you'll get it eventually.

0celo7

01:22

can you solve it

maybe that equation can't be solved

Pies

...what?

obe

lol.

Pies

Ya didn't give me A, B or C. So I can't do anything with that...right?

0celo7

holy crap

have you done any algebra

Pies

Of course

obe

01:23

@pies you didn't learn how to solve a quadratic equation?

we learned that in grade 7.

Pies

Oh crap

0celo7

@ChrisWhite is this unreasonable for a junior to solve?

Pies

wait, I know it

Dammit...what's the quadratic formula again?

0celo7

DERIVE IT

DON'T MEMORIZE ANYTHING

obe

you can turn that into the quadratic formula by altering it a bit.

since he gave you the general form.

user54412

01:24

@0celo7 Well, it was in grade 8/9 in my school.

Pies

-b ± √b^2-4ac
-----------------
2a

right?

0celo7

wrong

you didn't derive it

0 credit

Pies

.-.

0celo7

F---- for cheating

obe

would you know how to solve it if he used variables s,d,f in the equation?

Pies

01:25

Sigh...I shouldn't be forgetting basic algebra

Of course

0celo7

you did get it right

but you either looked it up

or tried to remember it

Pies

I swear I didn't

I had to sing the song in my head...

0celo7

you should have derived it

SONG

Pies

._.

obe

lol it was once an exam equation to derive it in grade 10.

0celo7

01:26

they should make a song for remembering cohomologies...

obe

@0celo7 I'm undepressed now, I can do the problem set.

Pies

To my defense...my algebra II teacher sucked. So maybe it's not entirely my fault...I hope?

obe

...due tomorrow.

Pies

I walk into class one day and the question on the board is "If you are going 80mph, how many hours would it take you to go 80 miles?"

I swear I wish I were joking.

0celo7

80?

dunno

obe

01:28

lol.

Pies

Yeah, but one of the morons in the class yelled "5.4, I CHECKED IT ON MY CALCULATOR"

user54412

how many of you remember the other quadratic equation to use when the standard one is prone to catastrophic cancellation? :p

Pies

Er...

0celo7

what?

never seen a different one

obe

@ChrisWhite never happened before.

Pies

01:29

A'right, 0celo, ready for a math problem?

0celo7

uh

as long as it's interesting

Pies

A pen and a notebook together cost $1.10. The notebook costs $1 more than the pen. How much does the pen cost?

wtf

0celo7

.05

n00b

Pies

Dammit...

0celo7

that's literally the topic of my psychology seminar...

Pies

01:31

A'right, is it sad I don't remember long division?

0celo7

yes

obe

really sad because you need it in calculus.

to do those damn integrals.

Pies

I usually just figure it out in my head...

Sigh...

obe

though not as sad as i didn't finish my qft problem set due almost 3 weeks ago.

0celo7

dude

I SOLVED IT LIKE THREE TIMES WHILE PLAYING VIDEO GAMES

Pies

01:32

So...now calc is kind of scaring me

obe

@0celo7 show off.

0celo7

that has nothing to do with it

Pies

Meh, I'll manage

0celo7

I gave you the answers!

obe

i need to write them down.

I was depressed ok.

0celo7

01:33

the professor was right about you

Pies

Er...ya okay, obe?

0celo7

that's not an excuse

user54412

So you have $x^2 + a_1 x + a_0 = 0$. Define $s = \sqrt{a_1^2-4a_0}$. If $a_1$ is positive, your two (ordered) roots are best given by $(-a_1-s)/2$ and $-2a_0/(a_1+s)$. If $a_1$ is negative, the (ordered) roots are $-2a_0/(a_1-s)$ and $(-a_1+s)/2$. That is, the other formula is $x = 2c/(-b \pm \sqrt{b^2-4ac})$.

obe

@0celo7 You don't know how it feels.

Pies

When in God's name did ya use that, Chris?

0celo7

01:34

wait why do I need that @ChrisWhite

@obe neither do your professors, employers or whoever needs or pays you

user54412

@0celo7 because using the wrong formula can lead to huge numerical errors

0celo7

@ChrisWhite example pls

Pies

"wrong formula"?

Ya mean the other QF?

0celo7

as long as $a\ne0$ I don't see any reason why it should not work

Pies

Say...does anyone here know some nuclear physics?

obe

01:37

0celo7 does.

user54412

Make $b$ large and positive. Then $-b + \sqrt{b^2-4ac}$ is close to $0$, but you're using up multiple significant figures keeping track of $b$.

0celo7

no?

not yet

Pies

D:

0celo7

@ChrisWhite you learned that in high school?

or some numerical class

user54412

@0celo7 No, which is kinda sad.

user54412

01:39

But I guess kids would get all confused with two formulas running around.

0celo7

well why would any of us know it then

obe

cool i learned a new formula.

0celo7

just do the problem set...

obe

i will now.

Pies

So is there any redeeming quality of degrees?

Since they're just gonna get replaced with the more useful radians?

0celo7

01:41

@Pies most well paying jobs require one

Pies

...

user54412

"This line has a pi/4-radian slope." <-- said no one ever

Pies

Well yeah, but radians are more applicable than degrees

0celo7

wow

angleist

Pies

.-.

But come on, 360° is just an arbitrary number. 2π at least makes sense

A circle could be considered 473° and it'd still be the same thing

0celo7

01:43

360 can be divided by like everything

Pies

Yes, but radians are absolute

0celo7

Show this man some rational trig

Pies

There's a specific amount of radians that make up a circle. That won't change. But you could keep redefining the amount of degrees that make a circle.

Hell, degrees don't always work. Ya can't find Sin(x) using degrees, unless you convert them to radians first

Same with cosine

obe

I don't agree.

0celo7

@ChrisWhite why yellow

Pies

01:50

Sigh...someday, maybe they'll stop teaching degrees altogether and just teach gradeschoolers radians

obe

I doubt it.

0celo7

no

what is wrong with you

obe

me or him?

0celo7

him

Pies

Why?

0celo7

01:55

degrees are going nowhere

just...just go learn calculus

you're wasting time on here

Pies

but...but...

0celo7

you could have already learned how to integrate

Pies

sigh...

I haven't learned precalc. How do I go straight to calc?

I'd understand in school, since they'd recap the precalc. But online?

All right, imma go. 'Night

0celo7

@obe teach him

I'm busy

obe

teach him what?

@Pies I know exactly what you need.

0celo7

02:04

start with Zee and work up to Arnold/HE

obe

I found this nooby calculus book I used when I was 15, it had a great chapter recapping pre-calc. It's called calculus early transcendentals by stewart.

@Pies read chapter 1 of it, find a pdf.

...he left.

it's snowing this week and -3.

woo.

0celo7

I used Larson

Good book, had some proofs

obe

epsilon-delta?

0celo7

02:45

yes

obe

same... surprisingly those books had it.

0celo7

Surprisingly you're not doing work

obe