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00:00 - 16:0016:00 - 00:00

00:00
I don't really get the arc length parameterization thing. I could have sworn when I looked at geodesics the equation I euler-lagranged was identical regardless of parameterization... I don't have Carroll ( @0celo7 ) but whatever, I'll figure it out. I've been away from a pencil/paper since I had the thought.
@NeuroFuzzy well, that might be because arc length is defined by the action integral
currently at a debate tournament
will research tomorrow night
@NeuroFuzzy aha
do you have Wald?
I'm reading GR during a break, this is uber nerd tier
Nope!
To Wald*
@NeuroFuzzy Hawking and Ellis?
(btw, get Wald, it's awesome sauce)
I have to go, look at $\partial L/\partial u|_{u=0}$ on page 107 in HE
the choice $f^2=-1$ is equivalent to making the choice of arc length parametrization
cheers, hope that helps~~~
here $t$ is the arc length parameter, not time
@NeuroFuzzy I can explain, but I really don't have much time!
Wald:
same thing, here $f=1$ is the choice of arc length parametrization
::sigh:: talking to myself, great
00:19
@0celo7 test your mic to make sure its working.
::taps mic:: Is this ::horrible screeching:: ...guess so
no one appreciates HE
no one appreciates Bob
I provide solid references to Bob, Steven and George
dripping with evidence
@NeuroFuzzy btw, I agree with @0celo7 Wald is solid.
look at that puddle of stuff on the floor! evidence juice!
dripping with solid evidence!
although I guess it's fluid?
@obe taking note I hope
@JohnDuffield they won't listen to hard evidence and reason :O
@ACuriousMind how've you been
00:29
@0celo7 I've been drinking
and meeting people I haven't seen in a while
time between semesters is a good time :)
obe
obe
@0celo7 Right lord gr.
I won't read wald until december though.
 
2 hours later…
03:06
@bolbteppa It's funny that you refer to Lev Landau simply as "the man behind the scenes" of Susskind's course. Landau won the Nobel prize in the 60s, and the motivation was in part his pedagogical work done with his books ;-)
...that were the minimal requirement to be considered for a position in his school....
Russians :O
03:24
@ACuriousMind just got home after an hour long homework stint in a car while half asleep
Debate is freaking awful
Gotta get up at 5:45 tomorrow, yay
But apparently we get wasted when it's over
When you think of a lightbulb and you know physics, e.g. you can understand everything, electrons flowing through copper wire passing through a tungsten filament colliding with the Tungsten atoms transmitting energy raising it's electrons to higher levels only to then revert back to their original states, releasing light in the process, and why it's enclosed in a gas case etc...
How about with a computer or laptop? Where should I read to find out how to start from the plug socket and end up knowing exactly how my computer let me type this message to you?
I mean, when I think of something like c programming, I have no idea what's really going on by thinking how it relates to the plug socket, same with typing this message, any ideas?
04:28
@0celo7 5:45 am is TOO early
user54412
@DanielSank You can go anywhere in the universe in arbitrarily fast in your frame. It's others who see you take a long time.
@ChrisWhite That's weird.
So... something can be a light year away but I can get there faster than a year?
Does this work because the acceleration makes my space-time path shorter?
user54412
i guess that's one way to look at it -- as your path approaches null, the elapsed time approaches 0
@ChrisWhite Here's the thing:
In my frame my speed doesn't matter at all. If I'm not accelerating then in my frame I'm standing still.
Therefore, my speed can't really be the right way to understand why I can get to a place a light year away faster than a year.
It must be something about the acceleration up to that speed which leads to me having a shorter proper time.
Right?
(I'm sort of making this up because I haven't reviewed relativity in a while)
Hey, @0celo7, I just noticed that your question about triplet transforms is one of my examples of a question with a bad title!
Should fix it, bro.
05:36
anna v also have a similar view
I wonder, if everything is in a steady state, or in thermodynamic equilibrium (which can happen in heat death), does it mean time ceased to have meaning?
 
2 hours later…
08:08
Opportunistic self-centered meta-question: Is there anyway I can improve the visibility of a question I asked, without spamming or other poor behavior? I feel it's probably going to remain largely unnoticed under the deluge of new questions posted since.
08:19
"Why is the sky blue: For a 3-year old"
I hope your 3 years old like quantum mechanics!
@Slereah I have read the papers you and Yuggib referred

Give me a sec when I fetch my comments...
@Slereah @yuggib
http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/royprsa/470/2164/20130632.full.pdf
Ok I have read this in full
Cannot say I fully understand it, but it seems the key idea is that the author think quantum nonlocality can be formulated by considering n relativistic particles each having its own evolution in time and these thus can trace out a bunch of worldines that depends on how we choose the space to be foilated. The resulting wavefunction will then not only be dependent on the position of each particle, but also their individual evolution with time
So if I understand correctly, multiple time variables in this context is a tool to resolve a highly nonlocal interaction involving n particles and the evolution of the wavafucntion that describe it, into the n particles evolving independently according to their own times an with the final wavefunction to depend on this instead, thus doing away the problem of correlations
08:44
Great, more quantum interpretations :p
Like we didn't have enough!
 
2 hours later…
10:25
Dressed at 6:25 what is this
@StanShunpike yes, it is
10:43
@Slereah it's like money, can't ever have enough
11:21
@ACuriousMind drinking is good.
 
1 hour later…
12:30
@DanielSank : it's true. See the relativistic rocket on Baez.
@0celo7 : people who cling to woo never do.
Do you guys think that it would be appropriate to ask a question on classical Yang-Mills field theory, without knowing too much to start with? I don't want to be one of those guys who "hasn't shown enough independent research" but I am finding the literature quite impenetrable if I am honest.
well you can ask here
12:46
@JohnDuffield Funny, crtl + F shows no hits for "Baez"
Not saying it's wrong, I haven't read it, but Baez did not write that.
@DanielSank Excuse me?
@DanielSank What should I change it to?
@AngusTheMan As @Slereah said, ask here.
We don't judge.
Unless you're @obe and freaking out about QM.
@Slereah Random pre-debate GR fact?
@0celo7 the article was written by Philip Gibbs, see the authorship notes at the top. The URL is math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/rocket.html . It's legit. If you move real fast you are subject to time dilation such that you can traverse the galaxy in say 12 years of your own time.
@JohnDuffield That does take an insane amount of energy though.
It would probably be cheaper to orbit near the photon sphere of a black hole and then have something nudge it.
@PyRulez : it sure does. Aw, it's just a hypothetical scenario. And if you were really travelling through the galaxy at some speed close to c, one little rock could curtail the mission in a dramatic fashion.
Indeed.
okay, well my starting point is CFT, I understand mathematically that you can have a given action that with a given Lagrangian gives EOM however, I just can't grasp why it is important in the larger sense... Maybe because my background is not in phys I don't know.. what is it giving us?
13:00
CFT?
Conformal field theory?
Someone plz help. I am trying to write a simulation for an ideal gas
But I am not able to write the code for collisions
classical field theory sorry,
Can anyone give me a little hint how to write it
@AngusTheMan why what is important?
the action?
well, do you know about path integrals
or canonical quantization?
@0celo7 have you installed iOS 9.0 yet?
13:10
@skillpatrol dude I'm on the road
@WilliamBudd Just let it go.
I was in my room for a total of 5 minutes last night
@WilliamBudd wat
@WilliamBudd chatting to yourself?
Errr.... forgive me. :/
@AngusTheMan one uses the Lagrangian/action to obtain the Feynman rules
it also works using the Hamiltonian
but I've not seen anyone do gauge theory like that
you'd have to ask @ACuriousMind about that, I haven't read QoGS
13:19
sup dudes
@AngusTheMan It's fine to ask questions if you don't know much about the subject. Just make sure that the answer can't be found in the corresponding Wikipedia article or another obvious search result.
@FenderLesPaul not tonight either :O
On the topic of questions.... Anyone familiar with magnets 'n stuff want to take a stab at my question? Shameless pandering, I know; but in my defense, I, uh... did put some effort into my question at least physics.stackexchange.com/questions/207800/…
IDK when we can do this
@WilliamBudd dissociative personality disorder
it's fine
@WilliamBudd You can offer a bounty to improve visibility.
13:21
@0celo7 Armchair Psychiatrist
But your question is only 11 hours old. Don't be so pushy :P
@0celo7 :(
Also, 4 upvotes in 11 hours beats many other questions. It's doing fine.
@ACuriousMind But that was all in the first 2 hours...
And I don't have the karma to offer a bounty.
what does it have to do with karma?
13:23
If you're starting on QFT, maybe don't worry about CFT for now
@skillpatrol Karma, internet points, whatever. I don't have enough of them for stackexchange to let me put a bounty on anything.
@WilliamBudd This site is not really about quick answers, though. You have to be a little patient until someone comes along who find your question & knows the answer & has the time and motivation to answer it.
@WilliamBudd Aah, I get it :)
And offering a bounty is intentionally only possible after the question is at least two days old, anyway.
@ACuriousMind Okay, thanks. I was wondering about that. I guess I'll check back in a day or so. :)
13:38
two upvotes... :-(
@DavidZ make that three ;)
Australian upvotes?
@0celo7 I know vaguely about path integrals, but admittedly not enough. Is that a good starting point even though I am interested in classical mechanics?
@ACuriousMind Thank you :)
1. The age of homework I got over it for a while 'and in fact, before someone would change my request, asked general information about it, not the resolution of the year that comes as a result. 2. The formula that you have linked the know but in this case I do not understand how to apply it and for this reason I have asked for lights to you experts. Thank you. — Manu 1 min ago
Can someone translate 1. for me?
"resolution of the year" is supposed to mean the "specific answer to the question" or something?
13:54
I think he is saying " I got over the age of receiving homework a while back. In fact before I change my question, I asked general information about the topic.
But...he didn't, the question was just a statement that the user is lost with this task.
The Lagrangian is best @AngusTheMan
Because it is a constant of most physical theories
the last bit ... hmm.... no idea... maybe " I came here to discuss questions not my homework year"? or perhaps "the answer I seek will come as a result of the specific way I have formulated the question"
Don't listen to that heretic, worship the Hamiltonian
All physical theories have a Lagrangian associated to it
13:57
@ACuriousMind sounds like gibberish
From which you can define the EoM
@Slereah Pretty sure that's false.
If you just have the EoM, you can't generalize
@ACuriousMind : Probably
But in general, you know
hahah but the Lagrangian is ten a penny for any physical theory .. not unique at all
The Lagrangian isn't unique, but the action is
(yeah when we talk about a physical theory it's really more about the action than the Lagrangian itself)
13:58
At least the Hamiltonian has the decency to be gauge dependent ;) hmm
I seem to recall that a friend of mine did something about Seiberg-Witten theories which only have "local Lagrangians" which do not properly define the physical theory we actually want to look at or something like that
Well being gauge dependant is Bad
also there are totally gauge terms in the Lagrangian
Also, I don't think all the minimal models of conformal field theory have been shown to have Lagrangians, but I'm not certain of that
So you think the action is the best quantity to work with then?
@ACuriousMind Conformal field theory keeps cropping up all over, I have been meaning to learn what it all about for some time now!
Well it is certainly a useful thing to have
14:01
So i read "quantum" and tapped out. Good ol' classical for me
I think classical conformal field theory is boring because you don't get the central charge that typically controls much of the theory.
I've never seen anyone do it
Isn't EM conformally symmetric?
I always think implicitly "2D" when I say "conformal field theory" ;)
One time I saw a paper that was like
"Every symmetry ever of the Dirac equation"
I tried reading it
Then I ran away
So many useless symmetries
@ACuriousMind I don't think we can be friends then :p .. I don't know, I have always been taught quantum mechanics on my degree. And all classical mechanics was to me, was Newton's laws and the Rayleigh-Jeans law. And one of them doesn't work! But when I saw Lagrangians and Hamiltonians I fell in love "que music"
14:10
There's plenty to learn of classical mechanics
It's quite a rich field
Not too surprising since it is thousands of years old :p
Early classical mechanics was pretty shit because it was the era of "Geometry is the best thing ever, let's do everything as geometry"
@AngusTheMan I do like Hamiltonian mechanics.
Then again I suppose that with the cotangent bundle version of classical mechanics
We are back at geometry
@Slereah I think we're in that era again.
@Slereah true, I still think there is really important things to learn for chemists! Most of our molecular mechanics is based on Newton's second law. I wonder if we used other approaches (Liouville etc) would there be benefits?
There's plenty of statistical mechanics in physics, tho?
14:15
The whole geometry think has me going crazy though, I love manifolds and tangent bundles etc.
errr
chemistry
(I'm a chemist)
Not too fond of chemistry
Bad memories of learning the systematic nomenclature :p
14:16
well me neither actually haha
@AngusTheMan I wouldn't have guessed that from your questions in any way
There's a weird formalism btw
That's like
sitting in on a undergrad class on heterocycles and pericyclic chemistry just to try and remember what it;s all about
half Hamiltonian half Lagrangian
@Slereah Routhian
14:17
yeah
Let's make a Routhian version of QM
there is one, via path integrals
@Slereah 'nother research topic gone? :P
Making up a new QM is hard
yeah he did well
14:18
It's the old theorem that I discovered
@Slereah WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT?
We have enough already :P
Whatever idea you have for a paper has already been done
@AngusTheMan : what you'll be needing is a dose of electromagnetic geometry .
I have been reading Jerrold E Marsdens papers on symplectic reduction and Routhian reduction on a manifold
When I have an idea that hasn't been done I always bump into horrible math
14:20
@Slereah Well...there's your reason it hasn't been done :P
All the low hanging fruit are picked
Indeed
I wonder if when a new field is discovered
Physicists rush to it to get all the easy theorems
I also wonder if that is the motivation of some of the physicists who do weird papers
"Nobody is doing that, I'm gonna get some sweet publications"
GR using quaternions? Don't mind if I do!
Einstein without the evidence? Sure why not :P
sometimes what I do is I try to find a fun looking exactly solved PDE and I try to find a physics thing I could hang onto it
@Slereah Your problem is that you think any PDEs are "fun looking" :P
thats pretty smart
14:26
Well it hasn't worked too well so far :p
@ACuriousMind : Some are very suggestive, though
You see them and you're like
"That looks like it could be a physics thing"
@Slereah Do they waggle their eyebrows at you or what?
Isn't that right, Painlevé transcendental functions
Well, most of them are very pretty in terms of flow diagrams (slopes fields and vector fields with fixed points of various types)
Also, Lamé function?
Second derivative and a Jacobi elliptic function?
Could fit right into a couple scalar thing shit!
I tried once solving Klein Gordon in a Ellis wormhole background but it was all Mathieu functions
And damn that shit is hard
Well the solution is easy but what it means is hard
Because the Mathieu functions are one of those functions where one of the parameter in almost all books are either integers or rationals
But in the equation, it is not
And that's a regime where the behaviour starts to get weird
mb I should ask Math SE about it
14:39
@Slereah What would the solution tell us physically, anyway?
I tend to have a habit of getting some mathematical object, and describe it as if it is a physical entity, with all its properties replaced by its closest physical counterpart

For example, I tend to think of a long line as an alien like rubber band that points stay where they are even when you stretch it

This forms the basis of most of my visualisation, and is one of the major sources of the misleading QM visualisation questions I asked, such as the De Broglie one that got me into the warning banner
So in this interpretation, doing very hard maths is the same as fiddling with many alien objects on your table and figuring out a way to assemble them into something you want
this is how visualisation motivate me to do sometimes very tedious algebra and guide me on what's the next step I should take to tackle a problem
Therefore, for every mathematical object and computation I can visualise lossleesly (i.e. the diagram or analogy is used is so good that it coontains nearly all the properties of the matheamtical object in question and ability to handle pathological cases with little issues), it is the same as owning an alien object from the matheamatical world that I can mix and match (or react like chemicals) to give the desired result I want
@Secret I do not believe that is possible. How do you describe a ring?
Or how do you deal with non-Hausdorff spaces? Those are pretty much impossible to really visualize because you are not allowed to think of "seperate points".
15:08
I think you're trying way too hard
to be visual
it's not necessary nor is it helpful
0
Q: Why was my question closed?

geordiefMy question was put on hold 5 days ago. The mechanics of accelerating a massive body in a Vacuum The mechanics of accelerating a massive body in a Vacuum [closed] I did edit the question as I was told that it was on hold because it was too vague.(and that I should amend it) I hoped I had narr...

@ACuriousMind I dunno, like
Transmission coefficients
Particle creation
stress energy tensor backreaction
that kind of shit
Also maybe a hint of what to expect if you just shoot particles at it?
Scattering and such
I want to say "See if maybe it can be propped open by it", but basically spherically symmetric static wormholes are impossible to prop open
Unless you allow curvature coupling or phantom fields
It's pretty bloody hard to have full solutions in semiclassical gravity
Or even just classical field theory
15:36
@ACuriousMind
Challenge accepted
I am not sure that those diagrams are very helpful
They remind me of that joke physics paper
" Since superpeas contain arbitrary dimensions, they easily allow nonperturbative calculations; for example, we have infinite-loop bubble graphs such as "
@Secret That...doesn't make much sense. Essentially you just replaced the precise mathematical terminology by vague words and call that a "visualization": "Element" -> "Blob", "addition" -> "clumping", "multiplication" -> "another type of clumping", etc. This analogy does not enable you to see anything about rings without resorting to precise mathematical language. You can't see what things like "prime elements" or "ideals" are in this picture easily.
Really you should learn about Penrose notation
Then you will see the folly of graphical notation
I mean, I can "visualize" an arbitrary algebraic structure in the way you describe there, but...it doesn't tell me anything about the structure, so it's useless.
Visualizing things like vector fields as determining flows or something like that, in contrast, is helpful because then there is an actual physical picture (fluid dynamics) you can use to gain intuition which statements should be true or false without going through the math.
Hey
Remember when mathematical logic was a graphical notation?
15:53
@Slereah
(At least for me...)
Fields= the above alien space where rings live in, but that symmetry exists also in the clump 2 reaction and thus the mixing of the clump 1 and 2 reactions becomes independent of history (commutativity in multiplciation leads to distibutivity to be two sided distributive)

Rng=there's no nothingness like blob, thus opposites don't nullify completely (no identity element)

Group=only the clumping reaction with symmetry exists, and the reaction is directional,and blobs don't become something else after reaction (identity, inverses, associativity, closure)
@Manishearth : time travel is not "mainstream research". It's science-fiction woo promoted by the sort of people who peddle popscience books to gullible kids. Object do not move along world lines. World lines are abstract things. You cannot point up to the clear night sky and say look, there's a worldline. A CTC isn't something you can travel around to go back in time. There is no way you can move such that everything else not only moves back to where it was, but never moved at all. — John Duffield 31 mins ago
O.o
This is on a post specifically talking about Tipler cylinders and other mainstream CTCthings
@ManishEarth : Welcome to the delight that is John Duffield
Well it depends on what you mean by mainstream
if you mean what GR researchers nowadays care about then certainly CTCs are not mainstream
He also seems to delight in citing Crowell for saying that "objects don't move through spacetime"
2
A: Why are objects at rest in motion through spacetime at the speed of light?

Ben Crowell I read that an object at rest has such a stupendous amount of energy, $E=mc^2$ because it's effectively in motion through space-time at the speed of light and it's traveling through the time dimension of space-time at 1 second per second as time goes forward. This is wrong. What troubles...

but if mainstream means not crackpottery then certainly CTCs are mainstream
15:55
That's not what that post says
@FenderLesPaul this
@ManishEarth : Just wait until you see
EINSTEIN AND THE EVIDENCE
@FenderLesPaul the GR folks basically proved them all impossible (IIRC), which is why folks are no longer interested
@ManishEarth JD's posts are always of that nature though
taking mainstream concepts and results and claiming they are bunk
Also, Tipler cylinders are not self-destructing, right? Just hard (read: impossible) to make?
@ManishEarth : Well, the solution exists and is stable in classical GR
Probably not in real conditions, though
15:57
@Slereah right
CTCs are notoriously self destructive in most theorems
Yeah, creating a Tipler cylinder sounds hard, but IIRC they're stable once created
as stable as infinite strings can be, I mean
@ACuriousMind
(cont.) For that, I can of course say an ideal is "for some blobs, when they react via clump 2 reaction, they can only interconvert between themselves can never beomce blobs that don't have this property", but then it is the same "reballeing" (or Slereah Penrose notation problem) thing as you mentioned.

But this property of Ideals is not a consequence of the ring axioms, but just an extra condition imposed so that you have a subgroup of rings behaving like that, so how does one expect it exists just from the definition of rings?
@ManishEarth : Well there's the whole chronology protection conjecture
@Slereah sure
15:58
There's no general theorem outright forbidding CTCs but clues hint that they do not survive
For a whole host of reasons
Yep
@Slereah but if you cannot prove some of them to be impossible, time to get a new formalism :)
The study of CTCs is important for furthering models
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