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21:00
@0celo7 dude that entire chapter is basically "Go check Hawking and Ellis kthxbai"
I'll draw a picture of Schwarzschild spacetime
Maybe that will convince me
@0celo7: BTW, this chirality/helicity thing also always confuses me. I don't know how many times I've read that chapter in the notes know :D
well crap
The proof is one by contradiction and I just drew what it actually looks like
I have to draw a Penrose diagram of a bifurcating black hole
+1 internet point for someone who can do that
@0celo7 A what of a what? :P
@ACuriousMind black hole picture of a black hole pulling off cell division
21:04
@0celo7 Y-Y-Y-You mean they procreate?!?!?!
@ACuriousMind No, theorem 12.2.1 says they can't :D
@0celo7 I'd actually like to discuss parts of that chapter with you if you have time later or whenever; gotta finish some calculations to give to my professor tomorrow then I can head home
@0celo7 lol
@FenderLesPaul Which parts?
More or less all of it really
21:05
I can skim it (YOLO all the proofs) and just read the meat
But specifically the parts on superradiance
@FenderLesPaul How about this. I know I'll be playing Skyrim later tonight. Why don't we Skype?
@FenderLesPaul That better not have to do with supersymmetry
There's a problem at the end of the chapter on computing superradiance behavior for EM waves incident on kerr black holes and for the life of me I've never been able to figure that calculation out
Haha thankfully not and yeah sure Skype sounds fine
I have 40 pages to go in this chapter
Take your time it's all good
21:07
I don't think I can skim fast enough to get all of that ;P
There's no rush; we can discuss whenever you've gone through it to your heart's content
It looks like section 12.2 is the hard one
i.e. the proof of the area theorem
Well I have a crap load of work all of a sudden
Have to sort through 24 bill amendments
talk to ya later
Alrighty have fun!
21:18
@KyleKanos Take a look at what Jamal wrote. It more or less says that if I claim my math question is motivated because I was thinking about physics, then the question is ok for Physics.SE.
Maybe that's ok, but I have one major complaint: this lenience is not extended to other topics such as engineering.
Holy f*ck
I just realized that I was running a current through my entire body (with my heart on the shortest path) by touching my laptop with my hand and my desktop with my foot simultaneously
I was starting to wonder why I kept on getting this shitty shock-like feeling
@Danu ...why does your laptop have something you can touch that transmits current?
@ACuriousMind I don't know
I'm charging it right now? Can this be #rekking me?
I think laptops should not transmit current through their surfaces :P
Me neither
I think I've gotten shocks from my HD before (which is what I was touching with my foot)
It's got a metal casing (as does my laptop)
21:28
Is the plug grounded?
I think so @alarge
In other news
what's up with this:
The matrix {{0,m},{m,M}}
it has eigenvalues $M/2 \pm \sqrt{M^2+4m^2} $
...but
Schwartz' book takes the negative of it for the lower one (which would've been negative), and gets two positive masses
How do I physics?
How did he flip the two terms like he did?
Anyone? :(
Cry every time
@Danu I think I have the answer in my SM notes from last semester, if it can wait two days, I could check.
@ACuriousMind Nope :P Exam's on Thursday at 2 PM
and it should be trivial
I mean... look at it :P
21:40
@ACuriousMind I've gotten shocked by my old one randomly
Wiki agrees with me
...but apparently sees no problem with the negative mass!
@Danu : Huh? There's no such thing as negative mass. Ask a question about it.
I've checked out some more sources but nobody complains about the negative mass
@dmckee would be the perfect guy to ask about this, no?
In the seesaw mechanism, why is nobody worried about the negative small mass?
21:56
@Danu Hmmm...it appears we dealt with the seesaw mechanism where you have full mass matrices instead of just numbers, and then this problem...doesn't appear, really. It's odd
@ACuriousMind Full mass matrices as in what? Generation mixing?
@Danu Yep
@ACuriousMind ...take the subcase where it doesn't mix
The aren't any parameters I could set to zero of something, I have to plug in diagonal matrices...I think...and we only did this on a problem sheet, not in the lecture
do it!!! :P
22:00
Generation mixing?
Read a book on QFT @0celo7 :P Check CKM matrix, PMNS matrix
@Danu That's like the next chapter in Weinberg if I bother to pick it up again
:(
@ACuriousMind I think you got rekt /s
You should ask a question and have your confusion cleared up /s
Hmmm...my final result states $v_L^c = \chi_1 + \frac{m_D}{m_R}\chi_2$ and $N_R = -\frac{m_D}{m_R}\chi_1 + \chi_2$ where $\chi$ is a basis in which the total mass matrix is diagonal.
@Danu : I don't know if dmckee is the perfect guy. I know about mass though. Ask the question.
@JohnDuffield Your answers seem to wander quite far off-topic usually, so I'll wait for @dmckee to come back if you don't mind
22:04
My $m_D$ is your $m$ and $m_R$ is $M$, I think.
$\chi_1$ is massless, $\chi_2$ is heavy
$m_R \gg m_D$
yeah
what is $N_R$? $\nu_R$?
So $\nu_L$ - the neutrino - is light and $N_R$ is heavy
$N_R$ are "sterile right-handed neutrinos"
...so $\nu_R$ :P
Yeah
Problem is, we did the diagonalization procedure with the full matrices, so I can't see why everyone else is getting negative masses while we don't right now :P
I think you may have pulled some trick like Schwartz
it is quite obvious you can't really avoid it, and all sources online have it too
22:09
@Danu : my answers refer to Einstein and the evidence. The mass of a body is a measure of its energy content and all that. If you know of any bodies that contain less than zero energy, Stockholm awaits.
::chuckles::
@dmckee returns! Maybe...
@Danu Er ... you'd be better off asking a theorist. There isn't a consistent notion of negative mass that I am aware of.
But that may just reflect my ignorance.
@ACuriousMind : "this chirality/helicity thing also always confuses me". If it confuses you, say so, rather than making comments that confuse chirality and helicity.
@dmckee D'awh, I hoped you experimentalists may also know the formalism very well :(
well, one can always attribute it to expanding around the wrong vacuum
but I'm hesitant to go through another spontaneous symmetry breaking :P
22:13
People do keep proposing to measure the gravitational force between anti-matter and the Earth.
But I don't think that anyone expects to see anything but anti-matter falling down.
@JohnDuffield lol
@dmckee Hahahah :D
They better not :P
@JohnDuffield ...which is why I went to reread the relevant things. I restated my comment in clearer form, 2. is/was preemptively meant for the case that you meant helicity where you said chirality.
@dmckee : even though a concentration of energy causes gravity and responds to gravity. It's like relativity never happened.
@dmckee The naive Higgs field - not the perturbation around the VEV - has a "mass term" in the Lagrangian that has the wrong sign. It'd be a tachyon if it didn't get a VEV.
Also in Donoghue's book on the standard model the mass appears as negative
@ACuriousMind I already said that ;D
22:17
@Danu Oh. Yes, yes, you did.
I should go now and memorize Sobolev embeddings one last time.
Cya
Cya
bye
@FenderLesPaul hippie
@0celo7 Suit.
22:19
@Danu and I look damn good in it
@0celo7 my secret is out!
@Danu : a negative mass contradicts E=mc². End of. @ACuriousMind : noted.
@Danu I'm not an idiot :(
I knew what you meant
@JohnDuffield ::chuckles::
@JohnDuffield You didn't listen to my or @ACM's comments, did you? It could be a wrong vacuum, or something else that is completely standard and acceptable
...or do you really propose that you just found an inconsistency in the seesaw mechanism that everybody just "brushed over" 'till now? :P
22:23
@JohnDuffield No. It's exactly like relativity happened, because it takes exactly the same amount of energy to make an anti-<whatever> as a plain <whatever>. So you expect them to exert the same gravity.
22:42
@dmckee : I'm fine with that. But not with "does antimatter fall up?" It's woo.
@Danu does @ACM do anything? :P
@Danu : Wrong vacuum? I didn't see that. But I can tell you this: the seesaw mechanism contradicts E=mc². How's that for brushed over? And is there any part of "yet to be observed" that you're not clear about? Ask a question.
@dmckee : I want to raise a complaint. There's people here flagging up my answers for serial anonymous downvoting. Search the chatroom on Duffield. There's abuse there too. Please moderate.
23:04
@JohnDuffield There was an instance more than a week ago. Some quiet steps were taken. Has there been activity recently?
By "activity" I don't mean down votes coming in, but some sign of coordination.
23:48
@FenderLesPaul No stream or discussion tonight, the train is being delayed an hour (exactly the amount of spare time I have)
Fucking "police activity"

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