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20:00
By "a lot" he means "almost to a fault"
@ChrisWhite Naw, I meant in terms of being loose and easy with my upvotes.
user54412
^ or that
Odd, they are sort of similar.
Liking something a lot ~= doing something a lot.
but doing something a lot != liking something a lot
user54412
But ~ == ! in some languages
user54412
20:02
so confused
interpret it either way, it's still true
I can only conclude liking something a lot != liking something a lot
@0celo7 I think I upvoted the question. Not sure it was the right one.
Leave the logic to Math.SE
@Jiminion Question?
That's why it should be /=
Oops, wrong person. OK, I upvoted that one too.
@KyleKanos hey, != is unambiguous. It's the ~= that muddles things up
(I cause so much controversy here....)
~= should be an approximately equal thing
20:06
What languages use ~= ?
Like if you wanted x ~= 3.14 it'll convert it to abs(x - 3.14) < epsilon
I know way to many languages to remember which one uses it. But I recall at least one of them does
@Jiminion Lol I didn't ask for an upvote! I already accepted an answer on that one!
OK, meta question: What would keep a posse of like 20-30 users from posting questions and answers and everyone upvoting everybody? Wouldn't that be a way to boost reps?
Personal integrity
20:07
@Jiminion Nothing is stopping them
@0celo7 I don't think you actually LOL'd. Maybe ~LOL.
:: lols internally ::
@Jiminion Nothing except for the psychic system subroutine that fries the minds of those that try that.
@JimdalftheGrey ?? Personal Int..? Wha? What is that? Foreign concept...
@Jiminion Well, it's a concept I know and I'm probably foreign to you, so yes?
user54412
20:09
@ACuriousMind Matlab
@ACuriousMind I thought one could derate that value of votes from an upvote whore, for example. I guess that's too complicated, and since organizing tech people are like herding cats, such a posse would be hard to assemble.
@JimdalftheGrey I think we are both Americans.
@Jiminion You thought wrong
user54412
@JimdalftheGrey Close enough :P
Canadians are pretty foreign to Americans
@ChrisWhite You take that back, sir. I'll hear none of such blaspheme
20:11
Does he hark from the land of Shatner?
I actually live north of (parts of) Canada.
Anyone here have experience with Lieb's Analysis?
@ACuriousMind looked it up on wikipedia. ~ is the old way of indicating NOT in written mathematical logic, but it's more often replaced by ¬ these days
@Jiminion What a coincidence. I live north of parts of Canada too!
@JimdalftheGrey I see, I only knew the ¬. Why would logicians use ~ when it is already occupied by (equivalence) relations?
I'm trying to think of most Southern Canada, Vancouver Island? NewFoundland? So you aren't a newfi?
@ACuriousMind Maybe the field of logic wasn't progressed enough to consider that? Modern logicians have advanced techniques to realize not to use ~. It's like asking why Newton didn't just use GR
20:15
Probably. Damn underdeveloped logicians.
@Jiminion Pelee island is the most southern part of Canada. But the general region is southern Ontario
What do Canadians think of Americans?
@0celo7 They are different. Way too serious about things. And a few other thoughts that we generally don't express in front of other nations
@Sofia Should be "A problem with losing identity of fermions and the order of applying operators" Or something like that.
I've been to Pelee Island! I spent a week in Toronto (actually a long weekend). Canadians are more relaxed than Americans. They probably think of Americans what Americans think of New Yorkers.
@KyleKanos Pst, Kyle, are you here?
20:23
@ACuriousMind I'm not that shot in the ass by Zeidler. He does some weird stuff, like defines the Laplace transform with an $i$ in the exponential.
@Jiminion Well I can't speak to that, but if you're basing that analysis off of people in Toronto, you should know that Toronto is an amalgamation of like 20 different countries and cultures. The true Canadian persona is found outside Toronto
Also 120 pages in and we're still reviewing phenomenology.
Vancouverites are different than Ontario folk. I'm used to them. (Ontario). I always detect a British tinge to stuff when I'm in Ontario. Hard to place, but definitely there.
I can't tell if this is a physics book written for mathematicians or a physics book for physicists trying to learn rigorous mathematics.
@Danu Danu, are you here?
20:26
Yup
Book 'em Danu, Murder One.
Okay, so I e-mailed a professor at MIT about something, and he replied but with an answer for a high school student, because he didn't know about me. Would it be rude if I gave a quick description of my background, so he can reply appropriately?
Like about string theory or smth?
No, it's kind of a long story.
The fact that he replied like that probably shows your question was not well phrased lol. One should be able to tell on what level you are
20:28
@JamalS Give him the Navy SEAL copypasta
@JamalS yes I am
No, because it wasn't a technical question.
Okay, let me explain
Hold on
There's a course 18.821 for mathematicians on paper writing. Part of the course is writing your own paper on a problem, and the prof keeps a list of interesting problems in mathematics and physics. I asked for that list, and he assumed I was a high school student, and didn't give me the list but rather a simple problem.
@KyleKanos Hah, love the comparison with Kenny, Kyle
So, would it be rude to tell him about my background, and ask for the list again?
@JamalS Yeah, maybe ask him again
20:30
Okay.
with a short explanation that you are already familiar with all the undergraduate material in mathematics and physics
^ that would be the way to go
@Danu And for this, I suppose JamalS can link to his SE profile.
@JamalS Did you ask for the list for that paper you have to write?
"up to and including [insert your current interests]"
20:31
@ACuriousMind Yes, and for my own personal interests.
You're sharp, ACuriousMind :)
Should I actually link my SE profile?
I don't think that's necessary.
nah dont do that
he's not going to read it
Ok, sending the e-mail....
Is the wording good:
"So, I wouldn't want you to feel as though you ought to restrict yourself to problems appropriate for high school. That's why I originally asked for the list, to browse for something appropriate."
That's after I list my background.
I don't really like that sentence
20:35
How would you word it?
but ok it's not a big deal
Not saying you must or even should link your SE profile (I agree, he probably won't even have a look), especially as you are asking for something rather trivial (a list), but I'm sure the professor gets emails from people who claim to know string theory, when in actuality they've read Greene's book.
@Danu Not sent yet
Can you suggest an improvement?
you have a double negative in there.
can you link the guy's site where "the list" is mentioned?
20:36
He mentions it in a video.
And what was his original e-mail response like?
Like: Hey, they may be too hard for you so here's an easier problem?
"The math lab projects are designed for teams of three MIT seniors; they are probably generally rather too ambitious for a solo project."
I thought the superpartner to the quark is the squark. Is a quarkino a thing? (Zeidler mentions quarkinos.)
I've seen some of them though, and workload isn't really a problem.
Okay.
20:40
Okay, sending the e-mail then.
no wait
I'm giving an outline
Ok
Thanks
@JamalS Do you think "quarkino" is a typo?
@0celo7 Yes; the superpartner would be a squark, not a quarkino.
General outline: "Dear blahblah,

Thanks a lot for response. Even though I realize that the projects represent a time investment that may seem unreasonable to a single high school student, I would still be very interested in having a look at the list, if this would be at all possible. Over the past years, I have familiarized myself with roughly the equivalent of an undergraduate degree in mathematics and physics, and I was hoping that I could draw some inspiration for my latest self-study project from your list. "
20:42
@0celo7 People who don't like the s- prefix sometimes switch to the -ino suffix, but I thought that an "X-ino" usually indicated the fermionic partner of some bosonic X
@Danu: Oh, so I shouldn't get into any specifics?
@ACuriousMind I thought -ino meant that too.
No.
There's no choice as far as I'm aware; the fermionic partner is ino, whilst bosonic is with an s at the beginning.
@JamalS I think you have that backwards
You can modify the sentence to: "...and physics, up to and including Yang-Mills theory, basic string theory, and [some mathematics topic] [or whatever you want to put in here]. I was hoping..."
20:44
Boson --> Bosino
Fermion --> Sfermion
@JimdalftheGrey Well, the photon is a boson, and the fermionic parner is photino.
Right?
@JimdalftheGrey No, the sneutrino is the bosonic partner of the neutrino, and the higgsino is the fermionic partner of the higgs
(removed the first "may", it's superfluous)
Phew, I did get it the right way round!
20:45
@ACuriousMind but the partner of the electron is the selectron
@JimdalftheGrey Yeah, and the selectron is a boson.
-ino are fermionic superpartners, s- bosonic ones?
So that is consistent with what everyone else said
@ACuriousMind Crap, right. My bad. Brain mismangle thing
@JamalS By "fermionic" partner do you mean the particle or the partner is a fermion?
20:46
Supersymmetry is wrong anyway, so who cares :D
^lel
I don't know it yet, but I really want it to be right
@KyleKanos Blasphemy!
@KyleKanos Do you want (super) string theory to be in vain?
Meh. I have no strong feelings about SUSY either way
@0celo7 Why not
I am kinda curious what happens to all these professors who spent decades of their lives writing papers and getting grant money and their research turns out to be entirely wrong
20:48
@KyleKanos We just need higher energy accelerators. Maybe.
@0celo7 Yeah, something like 10 orders of magnitude bigger than what we have now....
@KyleKanos They retire
@JimdalftheGrey ...in shame
@KyleKanos At least Witten got a Fields Medal out of it.
@KyleKanos Shame + decades of grant money and a tenure position = A good place to retire anyway
20:49
Smolin and Woit are sort of having a pissing match on how to best hate String Theory
lols
@KyleKanos If they get a nickel for every "I told you so" they then hear, they can retire nicely to the Caribbeans :P
@KyleKanos I honestly think it may be worth it just in terms of mathematical insights :)
@Jiminion Where?
@JimdalftheGrey And in truth there is no shame in it. Everyone know that theorists are wrong most of the time and get to be famous for being really right just once.
20:53
Sent. My fate is sealed... Hopefully he doesn't talk to the admissions officers!
Experimenters, on the other hand, are right most of the time but get to be infamous for being really wrong just once.
@JamalS lol
@Danu this was the course btw ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/…
Mind you most of the "rights" from experiment are pointless or uninteresting.
As are most of the wrongs for the theorists.
What problems does String Theory have besides SUSY? What is the next biggest thing?
20:55
@0celo7 Well, SUSY isn't really a problem.
You know what I mean. (Maybe)
By problem, did you really mean 'requirements'?
Yes-ish
What is the other biggest assumption we have to make?
@0celo7 Woit's blog. Truthfully, it's more Woit critiquing Smolin. There are both entering an essay in the FQXi essay contest.
Well, it's likely there's some compactification on a Calabi-Yau manifold if string theory actually describes Nature.
I don't know about 'biggest assumption'; I wouldn't be able to say.
20:57
I'm assuming ST has not made any contradictory predictions?
Does it replicate all of the SM?
Doesn't String assume universe is continuous vs. discrete? (Maybe not biggest problem)
Fun fact: there's a formulation of string theory that is actually consistent in 4 dimensions, and includes both bosons and fermions, but unfortunately the signature is $(2,2)$ not $(1,3)$.
@JamalS What does this compactification imply?
@0celo7 It's self-consistent, it seems
20:58
@0celo7 Depends on the theory and compactification.
@0celo7 It's not clear, but many sure hope so
@KyleKanos Get out of here with your reality.
Witten once said the ST requires QM to be valid, which I found very amusing.
I know that ST assumes QM is exact, right?
Yeah, it also requires GR to be valid
20:59
And that GR is only an approximation?
Yes.
You can compute higher order corrections to the Einstein field equations.
Can one sit down and derive the the SE from ST?
Unfortunately this involves loop integrals, which are unpleasant. (For the EFE corrections.)
@Jiminion It doesn't seem to me that we concluded our dialogue about the meaning of the word "whore". I asked you what is that. Are you able to answer? Please also imagine that I stay in front of you when you explain.

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