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02:00
Brrrr
I can't even
I need to run into some serious trouble in order for me to really work on that :P
user54412
@KyleKanos I suppose your remnants aren't going fast enough to warrant relativistic hydro/mhd?
It boggles my mind that there are people out there who actually enjoy coding.
@ChrisWhite Nah. They do hit 30,000 km/s at peak, but we're looking at them long enough to be non-relativistic
But then again, it boggles my mind there are people out there who enjoy chemistry.
user54412
I'm looking for a good test case for seeing Richtmyer–Meshkov instability in relativistic hydro -- like what parameters work well.
02:03
Though, I do wonder how a post-newtonian correction would affect the results
Out of the possible things to derive pleasure from, coding and chemistry don't seem that farfetched to me.
Decently far-fetched
Does chemistry even require math?
Just today I had a conversation about how utterly boring chemistry seems to me (probably due to my ignorance of the topic)
Besides some finite group theory
02:05
@0celo7 Depends on what you mean by 'math'
@Danu it has nothing to do with that. It's manifestly boring.
user54412
@0celo7 Much of physical chemistry is applied QM, and representation theory is used in parts of chemistry as much as in particle physics.
I was joking. But for real the Chem.SE is mostly high schoolers asking homework questions.
That doesn't mean anything for the general field of research though, lol
as I'm sure you realize
user54412
02:08
Legend at Caltech is that chemist Harry Gray had a bet with Feynman to see who could design the harder course. Harry Gray won with ligand field theory.
@ChrisWhite Perhaps his (Gray's) students were less intelligent ;P
@ChrisWhite What does that even mean
Or it could just be the legendary slackerness of physics students, no?
I means, sure, they are the smart slackers, but slackers none the less.
On occasion my department can't get enough senior chemistry majors together to run p-chem 2, and then they throw them into modern physics (it must have made sense at the time...).
I got to teach one of those sections, and the chemists were all the ones who got the work in on time and complete.
Gonna call it a night
cya guys! was great fun
A couple of the physic majors were clearly learning a hell of a lot in the course, but you'd never know it from their grades.
02:17
@dmckee Is "modern physics" just a bunch of post-Maxwell physics jumbled together?
user54412
@dmckee Sounds like the chemists I know. When I took organic chemistry (a mistake as far as my GPA was concerned), my chemistry-inclined friends convinced me that not only should I show up on time at 9 a.m., but that we should have breakfast beforehand while we reviewed our notes.
Yeah, 1895--1930. Special relativity, mention the general theory. Some minimal quantum. Just enough to confuse them.
I have fun with it. Look at everything that we had figure out and then XXX happened.
I hope a course like that isn't required for my physics minor.
I'd be bored I imagine.
For XXX substitute the black body spectrum, radioactivity, and so on...
user54412
I wish every college required some SR and QM of all graduates, even "just enough to confuse them."
user54412
02:22
Thinking the world is Galilean and deterministic is... more than a century out of date now
All? Even the engineers?
@0celo7 Even the artsy people
I can hear you say especially the engineers
user54412
I mean, that's twice as old as DNA -- imagine someone not knowing at all how life stored information
user54412
we'd hesitate to call them educated
02:23
@ACuriousMind My mom has three MAs and she can't grasp F=ma
@0celo7 Grasping QM and knowing about QM are two different things ;)
Plot twist: no one grasps QM
@0celo7 I have advanced projects available...
But most of these students need the course. They are mostly at my school because they didn't have the preparation to get into a better one.
@dmckee Speaking of schools, I wonder how Tennesee will be. Their nuclear program is fifth, but everything else is...meh. They're really on point in fusion, and just took two fusion researchers from Wisconsin.
How hard is it to get out of prerequisites? Do I just talk to the professor?
Like "modern physics" is the prerequisite for their quantum mechanics course but I probably won't have the time in my schedule to take that
user54412
02:30
@0celo7 I imagine most places can be flexible with these things. But remember it's the department/higher administration that sets prereqs to begin with, so your professor probably can't single-handedly override them.
They have a decent neutrino [physics group there---I collaborated with them while I was on Double Chooz. And they don't have a bad reputation in terms of basic undergraduate educations, so they must do something in the arts and humanities, but I don't know their programm well enough to comment.
user54412
You would need to convince the powers that be that you fully know the material being skipped and that your education would be improved by doing something else.
user54412
(That is, don't phrase it as "this is boring" but rather as "I know this already and I'm hoping to learn more")
@0celo7 If you can show proficiency in the material they'll work with you. Somehow.
How hard is it to take grad school courses as an undergrad? I'll be applying for the 5-year MS/BS program anyway. (I have enough AP credits)
02:33
It's generally all about pre-reqs.
If you have the preparation they'll be happy to have in the class and take your money.
Some school give them two numbers and may even grade the undergrads on a different scale from the grads.
Talk to your advisor and or the department head/chair.
I took Stellar Structure and Evolution from Stan Peale as an undergrad. Needed to have been a couple of years more mature to have gotten the most out of it, though.
Peale...do I have a textbook from him?
Don't know, but he was one of the guys who predicted volcanism on Io a couple of months before voyager discovered volcanism on Io...
Oh, I have a stat mech book from Beale.
user54412
@dmckee That's a pretty awesome prediction.
How did he do that?
02:38
Well, he says they started thinking about it then because voyager was on the way, but yeah. Chalk up one for the theorists.
@0celo7 They looked at the orbital data and started working some figures about tidal heating.
That's super cool.
Anyone here read Arnold's analytical mechanics book?
It turns out that the orbit should be circularized by the tides, but a resonance is keeping it eccentric meaning continuous high heating.
user54412
That's the kind of thing I can see how to calculate sort of in hindsight, but who would have thought about tidal heating like that before Io?
Damn if I know. I barely understand the process even now, because I don't have an intuitive feeling for orbital resonances.
user54412
@0celo7 In theory I took a course based on it. In practice, no, I haven't really read it.
02:42
@ChrisWhite well maybe you can help anyway. He defines the integral of a one-form as $$\int_\gamma\omega^1=\sum_{i=1}^n\omega^1(\xi_i)$$
But I've always thought of integrals of 1-forms as just line integrals
Oh $\xi_i=d\gamma \Delta t_i$
How does one show that his definition is the "usual" one
user54412
@0celo7 what's the usual one?
$$\int_\gamma\omega^1=\int_\gamma \omega^1_\mu\,dx^\mu$$
user54412
@dmckee You seem to have dabbled quite a bit in astro? What swayed you toward the nigh undetectable instead?
user54412
(talking about neutrinos, that is)
Poor grades. Lack of direction. Happenstance.
user54412
02:46
@0celo7 what page is this on?
Is $\omega^1(\xi_i)$ just the projection onto the curve?
I did very well on the GREs but with my grades I kept getting the "glad to have you in the program but ... no support" letter.
181
Lived with my folks substitute teaching for a year. Determined to accept one of those. Picked a school based on a smallish program, low cost of living and the availability of part time work.
Aced the qualls, said yes when they asked if I wanted to "go to Fermilab for the summer" and my course was set.
I had an unusual path to academia.
user54412
@0celo7 Yes.
02:50
@ChrisWhite do you know what is meant exactly by $d\gamma|_{t_i}(\Delta_i)$
He isn't applying $d\gamma$ to $\Delta_i$, right?
Or is $d\gamma$ to be thought of as the map from the real line onto the tangent space?
Then it would make sense to apply it to $\Delta_i$. In other words, $d\gamma$ is the pushforward, right?
user54412
since $\gamma : I \to M$, $\mathrm{d}\gamma : TI \to TM$
user54412
this is what Danu was complaining about recently in terms of overloading "d"
Wait, is the differential of a map the pushforward?
I might have terms mixed up.
user54412
it's the induced map between tangent spaces
@0celo7 Yes, the differential is also called the pushforward.
02:56
@ChrisWhite @ACuriousMind Thanks. This is what I get for not reading the first 30 sections and learning the notation.
user54412
You are young and impatient. Enjoy it, before life beats some sense into you.
@ChrisWhite I wish I were more patient. Maybe I could actually learn analysis properly.
I hate my life. On page 183 he states that $df$ is just the push-forward.
What's so special about the integration polyhedra being convex?
He seems to be doing a partition of unity...just in a weird way.
Maybe I'm tired but this question doesn't make too much sense physics.stackexchange.com/questions/165684/…
Doesn't the chat embed links?
03:14
@0celo7 You only get the embed effect if the link is the only thing on the line.
Sails are pushed by light
I have to watch this video...
@0celo7 Well, there are such things as light sails. The Japanese have even run a successful test of one as auxiliary propulsion on a Venus orbiter.
But you get relatively little push per square meter and their are slow as a result.
Is that the thing Count Dooku used in the second prequel?
It's too bad they never made any prequels.
I don't get it.
03:18
obligatory xkcd
Yeah. That. ^
You people are psychic.
I forgot radiation pressure is a thing. You remember something new every day.
Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones is a 2002 American epic space opera film directed by George Lucas and written by Lucas and Jonathan Hales. It is the fifth film to be released in the Star Wars series and stars Ewan McGregor, Hayden Christensen, Natalie Portman, Christopher Lee, Ian McDiarmid, and Samuel L. Jackson. The film is set 10 years after the events in Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace, when the galaxy is on the brink of civil war. Under the leadership of a renegade Jedi named Count Dooku, thousands of planetary systems threaten to secede from the Galactic Republic. When...
It's not good, but Star Wars prequels do exist :)
user54412
::crash:: ::wham:: ::ow! ow!::
user54412
(Kyle Kanos's account deleted for reasons of moderation)
03:24
I'm still here
My eyes! The goggles do nothing!
Hey old people. What if I told you some of my generation prefers the prequels?
@0celo7 Your generation also likes Miley Cyrus and One Direction.
@KyleKanos I like the prequels. Does that mean I like One Direction and Miley Cyrus?
03:29
@0celo7 Not necessarily. My point was that your generation doesn't know jack shit when it comes to what is "good" in the entertainment industry
@KyleKanos To be fair there were people in mine who embraced parachute pants. ::shakes head sadly::
@dmckee Because they're boss!
My taste in music is questionable, I'll give you that.
The best thing you can say about parachute pants is that they weren't bell bottoms. My poor, poor parents.
Does the chat listen to music?
03:32
I does
Currently listening to Jay-Z The Blueprint 2
I've actually got a Final Fantasy VIII speedrun stream on Twitch going
(as in I'm watching it)
If Arnold is trying to be intuitive, he's failing.
What is the principle (k+1)-linear part of an increment?
schwarzenegger?
V.I. Arnold
Basically
It's weird German differential geometry
03:36
I'm running a mix that features Simon&Garfunckle, Johhny Cash, Rush, Cowboy Mouth, Heart, Queen, Billy Joel, The beach Boys, The Eagles, The Pogues, Social Distortion, The Pretty Reckless and a few other things.
I assumed as much, but I was trying to be funny
@KyleKanos Tell me what a principle (k+1)-linear part is and I'll laugh
No idea
user54412
@dmckee Not a bad mix overall.
@ACuriousMind @ChrisWhite Any clue what a principle (k+1)-linear part of an increment is?
03:40
@ChrisWhite It's what I use when I need some pep.
user54412
@0celo7 nope, but I'm betting it's defined within 3 pages of wherever you see it :P
Lol I'm trying to reverse engineer it from his definition of the exterior derivative
@ChrisWhite haha he does define it on the next page
03:59
@ChrisWhite How are the cycles in Fig. 165 homologous?
how is the difference of two cycles defined?
@0celo7 One usually obtains homology by defining the group of cycles to simply be the free abelian group on cycles. Cycles are then homologous if they differ only by a boundary in that group structure. Intuitively, being homologous means that there is an object of one higher dimension whose boundary the cycles in question are.
@ACuriousMind you mind explaining why the cycles $a$ and $b$ are homologous in these two figures?
user54412
Which is what Fig. 165 is showing. a and b are boundaries of those shapes/simplicies
user54412
@0celo7 cycles are just boundaryless chains, whose additive properties are defined on p. 185
04:08
What does it meant to differ by a boundary
I guess I don't understand the more general notion of chain then
user54412
See fig. 153 and above discussion
Take the triangle. If we write $a-b=\partial c$, what is the $\partial c$?
user54412
c is the shaded region in the left figure
user54412
a and b together constitute its boundary, but with the orientation defined they must be subtracted for this to be so
@0celo7 The $c$ is the thing whose boundaries are $a$ and $b$, where $a$ and $b$ are oppositely oriented w.r.t $c$'s natural orientation (which is what a $-$ compared to a $+$ means)
04:13
Ok. What is $c$ in the second picture? The surface of the torus thingie?
user54412
I actually can't quite see what that figure is doing
@ChrisWhite It looks like a torus with handles...
user54412
it looks like b is this big long thing, but I think b is just meant to be the partially obscured rim of the right side, which is a mirror of the left side
user54412
Then it would make sense for c to be the surface ... I guess we could call it a twice-punctured torus
04:16
Twice?
user54412
Yeah, that's what's confusing. There's another hole that's hidden from view.
user54412
And b just goes around its rim
user54412
Otherwise b would be some random curve along the surface, not a boundary of anything
user54412
look, no one ever said Arnold was good at 3D perspective
I don't quite get the orientation. How does one determine the orientation of the cycles? (Back to the triangle now.)
user54412
04:19
with the arrows? :P
Not that. How does one know that for the triangle the arrow going ccw means a negative orientation?
user54412
the orientation of a symplex induces an orientation of its boundary -- so you'd only know this by knowing the orientation of the shaded region
user54412
(I hope that's right at least. Haven't touched this stuff in years.)
Alright, so if we choose the orientation of $c$ such that it induces a ccw orientation on $a$, how do we know that the natural orientation on $b$ is cw, not ccw?
@0celo7 Well, the natural orientation of a surface's boundaries are induced by the right hand rule. It's difficult to explain this without drawing a picture, but imagine a ccw running circle on the triangle. This orients the outer boundary ccw and the inner boundary cw.
04:22
I don't understand how this orients $b$ as cw.
user54412
@0celo7 You might want to read the first couple of chapters of Hatcher's Algebraic Topology
user54412
The author also hosts a free electronic version
Best drawing I could manage :D
You just take the orientation of a boundary to run in the direction of the part of the ccw "circle" orienting the surface closest to it
@ACuriousMind Ha I can post a question and give you a check for that effort!
I got now, thanks!
@ChrisWhite Lol another book on the reading list
user54412
04:27
It occurs to me that every book I recommend in chat is freely available (legally) online. I wonder if there's a correlation.
@ChrisWhite recommend a CFT book please
$140 for Di Francesco is crazy
@ChrisWhite People who make their work freely available in that fashion are those with a passion for teaching (and/or a disdain for money). It's a good indicator that someone actually wrote the book to share the topic in it with others.
Do either of you know of any (free, legal) online SUSY/SUGRA resources?
 
1 hour later…
 
2 hours later…
07:49
@Ocelo7 You should be able to find the review by Sohnius for free. It is a bit old-fashioned but covers all the important things and is reasonably well undestandable.
 
4 hours later…
11:23
@ACuriousMind True, true, I saddens me that, apparently, publishers often forbid this.
 
4 hours later…
15:03
Anybody care to comment on this? There's some discussion in the media about this very short paper, which is why I'm asking.
sigh Looks like I have to critique another paper (he said, pretending to dislike reading papers)
I've added a 150 rep bounty to my question about optics (refraction in an atmosphere to be exact), anyone care to have a look at it?
@alarge what is the media discussing?
@overactor unless someone like Floris actually goes and does the simulation, I doubt you'll get much more than the comments for this question. It's not extremely clear what the situation you've envisioned is and it would be hard to say much more than "Either it wouldn't look very different at all or it would look only slightly different"
Example. That's not really mainstream, and I suppose it won't make it that far, but I'm guessing it might make a hot topic on reddit and someone might end up on SE asking about it.
ugh
that hurt
first they give a mass density in the article and say it's similar to the energy density of the universe
so many problems with that that I'll just move on
then he calculates the energy associated with the location of 10^25 stars if the position is known to within 10 km^3 arbitrarily and he compares that to if the position is known to within the Planck length.
Now, the article says that part, he probably used the planck length cubed to be consistent
But the 10km^3 is still arbitrary, yet the difference in the numbers is similar to the 120 order of magnitude difference in the cosmo. const. problem
so what?
Is 10km^3 significant? What if he had chosen 1km^3?
15:23
"so what?" is basically a complete review, yes?
yeah, I guess it is
that or "Ummmm..... Okay, but .... no?"
Is it just me or does anyone else immediately want to ignore any "evidence" that references a paper on viXra.org?
@JimdalftheGrey Not just you
@JimdalftheGrey Every time
@overactor @SabreTooth something for you?
Also note that the author of the paper seems to not be associated with any university @alarge
it's like. arXiv already has tons of pseudoscience and crackpot theories. If your submission can't even get on to arXiv, it probably is a sign you shouldn't be publishing it at all
@Danu Yeah, I noticed this and that his other papers on arXiv seem to also have big claims. That said, he apparently did work at a university for a long time and had a couple of PhD students, too (I found his homepage).
15:38
...but of course you can't say that because then they will shout CONSPIRACY
I once spent an entire evening reading blogs/stories by people who were banned from postin on arxiv.org
One almost starts to sympathize with them, sometimes
let them shout. It's probably therapeutic for them and it keeps them from writing bad science
Also, did you know that Josephson (the Nobel Prize one) is not allowed to post anywhere on the archive except physics? :P
They got sick of his crackpot consciousness etc etc stuff
But of course, they couldn't very well ban a nobel laureate from posting in his field
Haha the "conclusions" section of the paper already foreshadows the reaction of many: "While it is easy to dismiss simple calculations such as demonstrated here as mere numerology"
@JimdalftheGrey Too much bad PR
...although I guess they should
@Danu No, he might still make a significant contribution. And he probably isn't a crackpot in his Nobel field
15:50
I've actually done some research on him
It appears he's gone full crackpot
I think within the confines of physics he is mainly interested in cold fusion
Well, it seems many Nobel laureates become... eccentric in their later years, especially when they start branching out to other fields they have no expertise in.
Just take a look at his wikipedia page, for instance
well, he got the Nobel. Does he really need to do anything else?
I say let him go crackpot if he wants to. He earned it
"In the early 1970s Josephson took up transcendental meditation and turned his attention to issues outside the parameters of mainstream science. He set up the Mind–Matter Unification Project at the Cavendish to explore the idea of intelligence in nature, the relationship between quantum mechanics and consciousness, and the synthesis of science and Eastern mysticism, broadly known as quantum mysticism."
"Those interests have led him to express support for topics such as parapsychology, water memory and cold fusion, and have made him a focus of criticism from fellow scientists"
15:52
It seems that, lately, we've moved from xkcd to smbc haha
Hm, I think I posted both yesterday :D
That cartoon character actually looks like Josephson
I like that cartoon. Sure it represents the ghost of Christmas future for me, but at least I know how I'll end up. That kind of certainty is comforting
Put down by the younger generation
And life moves on :)
Just look at that
15:58
definitely coincidence. Or maybe Josephson shaved his head to look more like the cartoon
Well, I cannot exclude the possibility that Zach had a specific physicist in mind when drawing that cartoon
But I think his "old scientists" always look like that
not with that attitude
I can include it :)
and I will
16:15
@Jimdalf: When will you be able to change your name again? :)
March 13
Although Jim the Enchanter is quickly catching up to ACuriousJim
There's some competition
Hm, I like JimNoSperm, too
hey, that's not what it is
Does anyone know how I can replicate the style and format of the AMS Notices, e.g. ams.org/notices/200409/what-is-illusie.pdf?
I know how to get the font for the body, and arrange the text in two columns, but how can the title be done?
16:32
@ACuriousMind You went and downvoted Jim the Enchanter, didn't you?
@JimdalftheGrey No, I actually still have it voted up and would have to edit it if I wanted to change my vote
tres gauche
hmm, someone downvoted it since I mentioned it
oh, wait
ACuriousJim was downvoted too
user54412
0
Q: Want to be a scientist

NobelI want to be a scientist.what are the qualifications I need? How much time do it take? Can I becone a scientist in the field of electronics? Pls give me an answer.Thanks In Advance.

I really hope I can be Jimbeard now... Yarr
user54412
research-level and pop-sci
16:35
@ChrisWhite Impressive
@ACuriousMind: Wow that was a little rude....
@KyleKanos Well, they were correct in that the issue I pointed out was not the issue actually causing the problem. ::shrug::
@ACuriousMind Sure they were correct, but they didn't need to be a jerk about it. I've removed it entirely in the newest incarnation (since it's completely irrelevant)
Josephson is Welsh? Maybe he works for Torchwood.
16:43
@ACuriousMind Wow, didn't take much to set him off
"Asked before my ass" I gotta remember that.
I do find the asked-before police somewhat severe. Methinks there are folks that like tanking questions.
I've no doubt that question was asked before, but they probably could have found a closer duplicate. (he said without actually having tried to do so)
@Jiminion Well, it still takes five people to close as duplicate. (Except if John uses his hammer)
@ACuriousMind Well that was interesting
But Rennie can only use his Hammer for GR
John is Thor!?
(or Hephaestus!?)
16:50
Lubos has the Hammer for String Theory, QFT, and QM
@KyleKanos Yeah, but I don't think he's ever used it
Has Lubos ever VTC?
Lubos is barely around anymore
@KyleKanos I don't think so, he's not the janitorial type :P
Wait, what's this about Rennie's GR hammer?
16:51
Looking at his badges, he does have the Custodian badge, but not the Reviewer badge for Close.
Lubos Motl? He pissed off everyone at Harvard and then disappeared, largely.
@JamalS If you have a Golden Tag Badge, you can close as duplicates like a Mod can close
Ooooh, good to know :)
I am so far from a gold tag badge
I only have 203 answers in total
16:55
I'm still 250 upvotes away from getting just the Silver Badge in Newtonian Mechanics, that's my closest
Well, I think I will get at least a silver one soon
I would have lots of bronzes but I never have enough answers
Votes? I got it made, but not enough answers
Wow...several people have the QM silver tag badge
@KyleKanos It is the most popular tag, after all
@ACuriousMind Very true
16:57
I just need 50 more answers in cosmology to get the silver tag badge
so close
@JimdalftheGrey You also need 229 more upvotes in Cosmology....
in 50 answers, that's less than 5 votes per answer. I'm already averaging almost 6
no worries
look at that newtonian gravity. 12.7 votes per answer on average

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