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4:48 AM
is the third law of motion honestly any different than "a statement of conservation of momentum" ?
 
I have a feeling this question has come up on the main site and there is a subtle difference but I forget what it is.
 
hmm. Well, my issue is that things get weird in Electromagnetism
where if you have a 2 particle sys
there are 3 entities that have momentum
the 2 particles, and the field
i.e momentum is conserved for the (2 particles + field) sys, but not for the (2 particles sys), so the force on 1 is not =&opp to the force on 2
 
EM fields carry momentum. It seems weird until you get used to it, then it seems normal.
The only problem is that eventually you consider so many weird things normal that the rest of the human race considers you weird.
 
@JohnRennie i know that, i wrote that too
but what that then implies is that the third law fails
 
I guess it depends on how exactly you define the third law.
 
5:05 AM
so how should you?
 
I'd probably define it as:
> for every action (force) in nature there is an equal and opposite reaction
So if you have two charged bodies A and B and a field F then the change in momentum of any one body is equal and opposite to the change in momentum of the rest of the system.
i.e. Δp(A) = - Δp(B,F)
 
well ok, but then ths simply brings me back to my original question
the third law is just a statement of consv of p
 
My view is that yes it's just a statement of conservation of momentum, but I reserve the right to be wrong if there's some subtle difference that I can't remember.
For example I would say the first and second laws are the same - the first is just a special case of the second. But I get corrected by people explaining that there is a subtle difference.
 
any idea what the subtle difference(s) might be?
 
5:36 AM
Wow! New room owners?
Now, that is a subtle difference :P
 
I think it was just that after tgp2114 and Chris were elected moderators no-one had added them to the list of room owners.
I guess they don't really need to be room owners since moderators have room owner rights anyway.
 
yes, indeed :-)
TIL, I can see my own deleted message content.
another subtle difference that makes no difference
 
6:27 AM
congrats @tpg2114 and @Chris on your selection to the chatroom ownership list; hopefully, you'll drop by to check up on us from time to time :-)
 
7:21 AM
@user85795 I'm honored, thanks ;)
 
 
2 hours later…
9:26 AM
@satan29 We've plenty of questions about that already, see e.g. physics.stackexchange.com/q/114466/50583, physics.stackexchange.com/q/136835/50583. You're entirely correct that the third law fails in electromagnetism - the third law is a statement about conservation of momentum of particles/bodies with mass, but in EM, there's more than just massive bodies that can carry momentum.
@satan29 for 1st vs. 2nd law, see physics.stackexchange.com/q/122231/50583
 
10:13 AM
Is this a tetrahedron?
 
10:24 AM
either that or this is a sign from an alternate universe with strange geometry
 
 
3 hours later…
1:54 PM
1
Q: Textbook questions

VadimThere seems to be quite a lot of questions that demand for textbook answers. These are technically not homework questions - i.e., they are not asking for solutions to problems - but grounded in not having read the relevant chapter of a textbook. They are not necessarily trivial either - i.e., the...

 
 
1 hour later…
3:02 PM
If I take derivative like $$\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\langle a|e^{\hat A t}|b\rangle=\hat A\langle a|e^{\hat At}|b\rangle$$ for what reason can the operator $\hat A$ be brought outside of the inner product?
I am assuming a product rule essentially applies here, $\partial_t (abc)=a'bc+ab'c+abc'$ and that $|a\rangle$ and $|b\rangle$ are not time dependent.
In fact I could be even more precise about the problem, that $\langle \vec v, \hat A \vec w\rangle\neq \hat A \langle \vec v,\vec w\rangle$
 
3:18 PM
@Charlie who says it can?
what you wrote there is false - your l.h.s. is a number, but the r.h.s. is an operator times a number, so an operator
 
Well the context is basically showing that the propagator satisfies something resembling the Schrodinger equation, $K(q_a,q_b;T)=\langle q_b|e^{-\frac{i}{\hbar}HT}|q_a\rangle$, $i\hbar \partial_T K(q_b,q_a;T)=HK(q_a,q_b;T)$
What you've just said is basically my objection, but this is a fairly standard thing to show and seems odd because it just doesn't seem to add up
Maybe the problem is trying to use operators like derivatives in the same place as braket notation, I think I've seen posts on PSE about this before, specifically mentioning the Schrodinger equation
 
@Charlie Well, that's technically also wrong, the propagator is a Green's function and there should be a $\delta(q_b - q_a)$ somewhere, see Wiki for the correct equation
note the subscript $H_x$ they're using - this is not some equation of operators, it is a specific differential equation in position space for the function/distribution $K(q_a, q_b;t_a, t_b)$.
 
Ok I will put this in the "physics math" pile
 
3:35 PM
@Charlie Well, if we ignore the $\delta$ issue, perhaps note that $\langle x \vert AB\vert x'\rangle = A_x \langle x \vert B \vert x'\rangle$
I.e. pulling an operator "through" one of the continuous basis kets turns it into its representation in that basis
 
Aren't we then getting a mixture of abstract operators and operators in a specific basis?
 
What do you mean by "mixture"? $\langle x\vert B\vert x'\rangle$ is a function of $x,x'$ on which a differential operator $A_x$ can act.
Sure, $B$ is abstract and $A_x$ is "concrete", but what's the problem? There's no law that they must be 10 meters apart at all times :P
 
Have you inserted a complete set of states into $\langle x|AB|x'\rangle$ to pull out $A_x$?
 
yeah
I mean, all of this is complete "physics math" still since we're using the "states" $\lvert x\rangle$ to begin with, don't expect this to make rigorous sense
 
4:06 PM
Ok yeah I see
 
 
2 hours later…
5:41 PM
0
Q: Reopening a question after fixing issues

ExocytosisThis post is about this question that was closed (for good reason): Is there such a concept as "opposite colors"? I think the question is very interesting when one gets rid of all the ... (not sure how to describe it in a polite way). Please tell me if the fix is good enough so as to reopen.

 
 
2 hours later…
7:33 PM
This is a bit of a wild swing because I have no idea how to answer it myself, but do you lose any information during Wick rotation? As in is there any downside whatsoever to Wick rotating, performing the integral and then "un"-Wick rotating?
 
@Charlie no, but in contrast to what cursory mentions of "Wick rotation" will tell you, it's not a technique to solve integrals :P
 
oh :P what would a purist use (what they presumably wouldn't call) Wick rotation for?
 
the real underpinning of Wick rotation is the Osterwalder-Schrader reconstruction theorem, which says that given a Euclidean field theory obeying a list of axioms, the analytic continuation of the Euclidean fields defines a (relativistic, Wightman or Haag-Kastler) QFT and the analytic continuations of the n-point functions of the Euclidean theory are the correct n-point functions for this corresponding Minkowskian theory
 
ohhh
that's actually pretty cool
 
that is, the fact that Wick rotation works is highly specific to the structure of quantum field theories - it's not something you do to a single integral, it's more an operation on the entire theory
 
7:42 PM
Ah, it's usually introduced pretty ad-hoc to look at the 1-loop divergences in scalar field theory, I did wonder why it wasn't just applied to everything else
 
yeah, the typical QFT text just waves its hands very hard at this point
 
8:01 PM
Hawking loves his wick rotations in quantum gravity, not sure any of these theorems apply but it's still used in the craziest of situations
 
sure, the theorems don't "really" apply to most real QFTs anyway because we don't have a construction of Euclidean fields obeying the OS axioms in dimension >3 last time I looked
 
12
Q: Does Wick rotation work for quantum gravity?

user1850Does Wick rotation work for quantum gravity? The Euclidean Einstein-Hilbert action isn't bounded from below.

 
it's all just path integral dark magic and hoping for the best
 

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