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8:06 PM
Someone help
 
Where does it say that $M^*$ is related to $M$ by a similarity transformation
 
Well you can work it out for $SU(2)$
For $SL(2,\mathbb{C})$ according to the notes you can't
 
The reason we put dots on indices is to signify that a transformation of the $\alpha$ index is independent of a transformation on the $\dot{\alpha}$ index. If they were related by a similarity transformation we wouldn't need to use dots, so this dot stuff is completely irrelevant in a $\mathrm{SU}(2)$ discussion
 
But you can't write $\delta_{\alpha \beta}\psi^*{}^\alpha \psi^\beta$ because it's an illegal term
$\delta$ transforms incorrectly
 
It's not, you can write it and it's invariant for $\mathrm{SU}(2)$
 
8:09 PM
Uhhh it's not
 
$\psi^1 \psi^{*1} + \psi^2 \psi^{*2}$ is invariant under $\mathrm{SU}(2)$ because as I've said multiple times now it's just $\psi^{\dagger} \psi$ and $\psi'^{\dagger} \psi' = \psi^{\dagger} U^{\dagger} U \psi = \psi^{\dagger} \psi$
 
$\delta_{\alpha \beta}$ implies it transforms as $V^* \times V^*$ and not $\overline{V}^* \times V^*$
Yes when you write that you are implying that $\delta_{\alpha \beta}$ is actually $\delta_{\alpha \dot{\alpha}}$
There must be a manipulation afterwards
 
We are going in circles
I just said the dots are irrelevant and pointed out why and you ignored it and repeat it, come on
 
No I was making the same mistake you're making
It's wrong so move on
 
I'm not making a mistake
 
8:12 PM
Do it properly and you will see
Noone is denying that $\psi^\dagger \psi$ is invariant
Translate it into index notation properly
with the terms transforming properly
 
Do you deny that $\psi^{\dagger} \psi = \psi^1 \psi^{*1} + \psi^2 \psi^{*2}$
 
No, that is correct
 
Do you deny that $\psi^{\dagger} \psi = \delta_{\alpha \beta} \psi^{\alpha} \psi^{* \beta}$
 
That is an illegal term
$\delta$ needs to transform as $\overline{V}\times V$
 
That's obviously absurd, think about it
 
8:16 PM
Otherwise you will get the whole thing turning into minus itself
Do the transformation and then tell me
 
Where are minus signs coming from
 
If you do the transformation properly
to check it's invariance
 
Honestly I have no idea where a minus sign is coming from
 
$\delta_{\alpha \beta} \psi^*{}^\alpha \psi^\beta \rightarrow F_\alpha{}^\gamma F_\beta{}^\delta F^\alpha{}_\phi(F^\dagger)_\varphi{}^\beta \delta_{\gamma \delta} \psi^*{}^\phi \psi^\varphi$
$=-\delta_{\phi}{}_ {\varphi} \psi^*{}^\phi \psi^\varphi$
However if you have $\delta_{\alpha \dot{\alpha}}$ you get a $+$ because of the way it transforms
Which makes sense because you're trying to force $V^* \times \overline{V}$
 
Where did a minus sign come from there
That's wrong
 
8:19 PM
It's not though
$V^*$ transforms differently to $\overline{V}^*$
 
Under no circumstances does a minus sign come out of any of this
 
Uggh just try it
properly
As in the full transformation
with your $\delta_{\alpha \beta} \in V^* \times V^*$
 
8:46 PM
If $F \in \mathrm{SU}(2)$ then $F F^{\dagger} = I$ i.e. $F I F^{\dagger} = I$ reads as $F^{\alpha}_{\ \ \ \ \gamma} \delta^{\gamma \kappa} (F^{\dagger})^{\kappa}_{\ \ \ \beta} = F^{\alpha}_{\ \ \ \ \gamma} \delta^{\gamma \kappa} F^{* \beta}_{\ \ \ \ \ \ \kappa} = \delta^{\alpha \beta}$ or rather $F^{\alpha}_{\ \ \ \ \kappa} F^{* \beta}_{\ \ \ \ \ \ \kappa} = \delta^{\alpha \beta}$. Right?
Similarly $F^{\dagger} I F = I$ reads as $(F^{\dagger})^{\alpha}_{\ \ \ \gamma} \delta_{\gamma \kappa} F^{\kappa}_{\ \ \ \beta} = F^{* \gamma}_{\ \ \ \ \ \alpha} \delta_{\gamma \kappa} F^{\kappa}_{\ \ \ \beta} = \delta_{\alpha \beta}$ or rather $F^{* \kappa}_{\ \ \ \ \ \alpha} F^{\kappa}_{\ \ \ \beta} = \delta_{\alpha \beta}$ right?
Thus we can write
\begin{align}
\delta_{\alpha \beta} \psi'^{\alpha} \psi'^{* \beta} &= [F^{* \gamma}_{\ \ \ \ \ \alpha} \delta_{\gamma \kappa} F^{\kappa}_{\ \ \ \beta}] (F^{\alpha}_{\ \ \ \rho} \psi^{\rho}) F^{*\beta}_{\ \ \ \ \sigma} \psi^{* \sigma} = \delta_{\gamma \kappa} F^{* \gamma}_{\ \ \ \ \ \alpha} F^{\kappa}_{\ \ \ \beta} F^{\alpha}_{\ \ \ \rho} F^{*\beta}_{\ \ \ \ \sigma} \psi^{\rho} \psi^{* \sigma} \\
&= F^{* \kappa}_{\ \ \ \ \ \alpha} F^{\kappa}_{\ \ \ \beta} F^{\alpha}_{\ \ \ \rho} F^{*\beta}_{\ \ \ \ \sigma} \psi^{\rho} \psi^{* \sigma} = \delta_{\alpha \beta} F^{\alp
 
9:02 PM
You didn't transform the delta properly, the minus sign is just a mistake, and there are absolutely no dotted indices. The whole thing I just posted is summarized by $\psi'^{\dagger} \psi' = \psi^{\dagger} U^{\dagger} U \psi = \psi^{\dagger} \psi$, but I did it the way you typed it which amounts to writing:
$$\psi'^{\dagger} I \psi' = \psi^{\dagger} U^{\dagger} [U^{\dagger} I U] U \psi = \psi^{\dagger} U^{\dagger} U \psi = \psi^{\dagger} \psi$$
seen this way, it's absurd to transform the (invariant) $I$ which you then just cancel but the confusing indices make it look like you have to do it
 
9:48 PM
You can't have 2 upstairs indicies summed over like that
$$
\delta_{\alpha \beta} \psi^*{}^\alpha \psi^\beta \rightarrow F_\alpha{}^\gamma F_\beta{}^\delta F^\alpha{}_\phi(F^\dagger)_\varphi{}^\beta \delta_{\gamma \delta} \psi^*{}^\phi \psi^\varphi
$$
$$
F_\alpha{}^\gamma (F^\dagger)_\varphi{}^\beta F_\beta{}^\delta F^\alpha{}_\phi \delta_{\gamma \delta} \psi^*{}^\phi \psi^\varphi
$$
$$
F_\alpha{}^\gamma \delta_\varphi{}^\delta F^\alpha{}_\phi \delta_{\gamma \delta} \psi^*{}^\phi \psi^\varphi
$$
$$
F_\alpha{}^\gamma F^\alpha{}_\phi \delta_{\gamma \varphi} \psi^*{}^\phi \psi^\varphi
 
You transformed $\delta$ wrong again, if you write $F F^{\dagger} = I$ and $F^{\dagger} F = I$ out in indices, and also write $F I F^{\dagger} = I$ and $F^{\dagger} I F = I$ out in indices, you will see this
That's very hard to read and the equal signs are missing, look up the latex code for aligning equations
 
The calculation is independent of what $\delta$ is.
Because the calculation makes no sense
You're mixing up the spaces
In a way that isn't allowed
 
No, the entire crux of the calculation is using $F F^{\dagger} = I$, this is how you get your expression for $\delta$
 
$F_{\alpha}{}^\beta (F^\dagger)_\beta{}^\gamma = \delta_\alpha{}^\gamma$ yes
Look if it were that simple Landau wouldn't have resorted to a completely different argument telling us why it's an invariant
 
Re-write that using the definition of $F^{\dagger}$ as the transpose conjugate
 
9:58 PM
I don't know, you're summing over two raised indicies which kind of defeats the whole point
 
Your index convention will break, it's unavoidable, you're making mistakes by not using this, and there should be absolutely no minus signs anywhere
L&L wrote $\psi^{1} \psi^{*1} + \psi^2 \psi^{*2}$, this is trivially equal to $\delta_{\alpha \beta} \psi^{\alpha} \psi^{*\beta}$, you are making mistakes with this formal space nonsense, it's a trivial equality
 
No he says 'clearly that quantity is invariant' because it has to be because it's used all over in QM
then he goes into showing the different transformations
and he nowhere says that its' $\delta_{\alpha \beta}\psi^\alpha \psi^*{}^\beta$.
Because it isn't
You have a dual vector acting on the completely wrong space
 
I haven't defined a new space, I haven't defined a dual, I wrote out a simple equality
 
You automatically do when you state $\psi^*$
 
No, $\psi^{\alpha}$ is a complex number, $\psi^{*\alpha}$ is another complex number, I multiplied two complex numbers $\psi^1$ and $\psi^{*1}$, did the same with $\psi^2$ and $\psi^{*2}$, then just added the result of this trivial multiplication when I wrote
$$\delta_{\alpha \beta} \psi^{\alpha} \psi^{*\beta} = \psi^{1} \psi^{*1} + \psi^2 \psi^{*2}$$
 
10:05 PM
But you've transformed it wrong
Uhh your missing the whole point
It doesn't transform correctly
Yes you can put the explicit terms in
 
I proved above it does transform correctly
 
Put it doesn't transform correctly
You did it wrong
 
I didn't
I mean really, you're just saying I can't sum two complex numbers because I used a symbol you think means something other than what it obviously means
 
I''m not
 
A given $F \in \mathrm{SU}(2)$ must satisfy $F F^{\dagger} = I$, in terms of indices this reads as $F^{\alpha}_{\ \ \ \ \kappa} (F^{\dagger})^{\kappa}_{\ \ \ \beta} = F^{\alpha}_{\ \ \ \ \kappa} F^{* \beta}_{\ \ \ \ \ \ \kappa} = \delta^{\alpha \beta}$. You are literally denying the most basic definition of $\mathrm{SU}(2)$ because you don't want to write out $\dagger$ as a conjugate transpose and it's leading you so far away that you're finding minus signs...
 
10:15 PM
Why do you keep summing over dropped indices like that. You have to be careful because if you simultaneously raise and lower the same index, you get a minus sign i.e. $S^{\alpha} S_\alpha = -S_\alpha S^{\alpha}$
$F^\alpha{}_\kappa (F^\dagger)^\kappa{}_\beta = \delta^\alpha{}_\beta$ If you raise the index you need another epsilon tensor.
But this delta is actually different from the lowered delta you used in your definition which is actually the epsilon tensor
Anyways
 
A matrix $M_{ab}$ satisfies $M_{ab}^T = M_{ba}$, that is more fundamental than any up or down notation
When you transformed the $\delta$ you did it wrong, you wrote $\delta_{\alpha \beta} = F_{\alpha}^{\ \ \gamma} F_{\beta}^{\ \ \delta} \delta_{\gamma \delta}$ with no explanation, what you're supposed to be doing is writing out $F^{\dagger} I F = I$ in indices, but what you did is write $F I F = I$
Or did you, it's not clear what you did
 
10:35 PM
I'm transforming according to Seigal's book titled Fields
Anyways, I'm trying to do this extremely formally so I know what's going on so that I can apply it to other situations.
 
On page 118 he writes $M_{\alpha}^{\ \ \beta} = (M^{\dagger})_{\alpha}^{\ \ \beta} = (M_{\beta}^{\ \ \alpha})^*$ 'breaking' the index notation
When you transformed $\psi^{* \alpha}$ you incorrectly wrote a $F^{\alpha}_{\ \ \phi}$ when it should be $F^{\phi}_{\ \ \alpha}$ due to the transpose which is even what he does too
 
He didn't break it. When you transpose you have essentially $(M^T)_{\alpha}{}^\beta = M^\beta{}_\alpha$
 
No, you have raised the $\beta$ and lowered the $\alpha$ without justifying it, i.e. you need to introduce $\varepsilon$'s to do that
 
Which line?
 
The last thing you wrote
When he took the transpose he put the $\beta$ down and on the left, while you kept it up when moving it to the left, this actually breaks the definition of the matrix unless you use $\epsilon$'s which you didn't mention
 
10:48 PM
On 118 he says that just for a Hermitian matrix
 
Ok forget about any raising and lowering of indices, that's an additional concept. Let $\chi^{\alpha}$ be a column vector and $\psi_{\alpha}$ be a row vector. Clearly $(\psi^{\alpha})^T = \psi_{\alpha}$ just says the transpose of a column vector is a row vector. If you have a matrix $M^{\alpha}_{\ \ \beta}$ the indices are placed where they are so that $\psi_{\alpha} M^{\alpha}_{ \ \ \beta} \chi^{\beta}$ has a nice Einstein summation pattern.
It's transpose is now $(M^{\alpha}_{\ \ \beta})^T = M^{\beta}_{\ \ \alpha}$ which ensures $(\psi_{\alpha} M^{\alpha}_{ \ \ \beta} \chi^{\beta})^T = \chi_{\beta} M^{\beta}_{\ \ \alpha} \psi^{\alpha}$ is consistent. It can't be $(M^{\alpha}_{\ \ \beta})^T = M_{\beta}^{\ \ \alpha}$, this breaks the transpose of $(\psi_{\alpha} M^{\alpha}_{ \ \ \beta} \chi^{\beta})$
 
11:23 PM
why does it feel like no one ever uses comments in their code
it's amazing how much easier it'd make it for me to work with
 
eh, "no comments" is a bit less frustrating than
//add a to b
b = a + b
but nothing anywhere indicating *why* this is done.
 
@ACuriousMind seen that too. comments that are so useless that they border on condescending
 
and what you really you want is code that doesn't need a lot of comments because it is well-structured and has appropriately-named variables :P
@SirCumference I never know which option is worse: Someone wrote such a comment genuinely thinking it would be helpful, or they just wrote it because someone told them to "write comments"
 
@ACuriousMind the worst ones are seeing "var1, var2" and so on or things like "myArray, myDict, etc."
 
yup
I once had to dive into old code apparently written by someone new to the concept of objects and references where every object reference was just named some variant of "ref" with various useless prefixes/suffixes
 
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