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11:00 AM
Hello. @JohnRennie I need help. In this problem it has said mass is added. Then why is it using $\Delta L$ ?
 
@Fawad I'd guess you need to take into account the stretching of the wire by the extra mass. That's why they give you the Young's modulus.
 
Oh yes. Thannksks
 
suppose i have a metal shell with inner radius a and outer radius b and the charge of the shell is Q
i can find easily the field for r<a and r>b
but what is the E for a<r<b
since i got not charge in the centre i dont know what to do
 
the field is 0
Use Gauss' law
 
@Kenshin Hi! (Just asking out of curiosity) Why did you create a new site instead of suggesting one on Area 51?
 
11:14 AM
what do you mean @Abcd, what new site?
 
yes it is inside
 
@Kenshin physicsqandaexchange?
 
but what is it between the inner and oute radius
 
Sammy Gerbil said that you are the site mod.
 
yeah we tried to make it through area51
 
11:15 AM
there is no charge inside too cancel out with
 
but it got knocked back as not being an appropriate stackexchange site
 
@Kenshin Ah!! I see.
 
@ManolisLyviakis assuming there is no charge between inner and outer radius, one can construct a surface within this space that contains no charge
then appplying Gauss' law, the surface integral of the field should equal the charge inclosed which is 0
 
but there is charge
 
@Kenshin Is it possible to advertise qandaexchange? It's underrated currently.
 
11:16 AM
well it depends if the material is a conductor or not
sorry misunderstood
 
@ManolisLyviakis if it's a conductor all the charge moves to the outer surface of the shell.
 
ohh thanks
 
@Abcd the site isn't perfect
 
thats the answer
 
So for all r < b the field is zero
 
11:18 AM
and requires a lot of work, but happy for your to advertise, I just haven't had much time
thankks for the feedback tho
 
@Kenshin if the site doesn't get more visitors when will it be perfect?
 
@Abcd probably never
 
@Abcd I'm around now, though I'm a bit frazzled having been working since 5 a.m. :-)
 
but if the site gets more visitors, it may inspire me to begin improving it agian
@Abcd what do you think is the number 1 improvement that coudl be made to the site?
 
@JohnRennie It's okay. I'll ask that to you later :-) . I had two questions, I solved one myself.
 
11:20 AM
@Abcd cool :-)
 
@JohnRennie if i have a metal sphere
it will also all the Q be in the outer surface?
 
yea
 
@ManolisLyviakis yes. By definition charges are mobile in a metal, so the charges will arrange themselves to get as far away from all other charges as possible.
 
all the charged particles wil want to maximally repel
 
That means they all end up on the outer surface.
 
11:22 AM
yes nice im just double checking
so even for a compact sphere
no charge inside
i mean a conductor combact
 
yep
 
compact*
 
it has to be right?
however
there is one exception
if the charges are made of discrete particles
 
@Kenshin More visitors, like SE and a better user-interface. Actually, you can make it a better "physics forums" of the internet where concepts are also dealt with. This isn't the number 1 improvement, I'll have to think about that.
 
it is possible that all but 1 charge go to the surface
and 1 charge is in the very centre of the sphere
this would also be a stable solution
thanks man @Abcd
 
11:25 AM
what happens
if i have
a sphere with double the charge
inside a metal shell
sphere has 2Q shell has -Q
the E wont be zero
 
between the sphere and the shell u mean?
where are you evaluating E at?
 
if i take a gaussian surface with radius a little bigger than the inner radius of the shell
 
@Kenshin And I don't understand why SE had a problem with it. Maths.SE is filled with HW questions (and many are just problem statements). Chemistry.SE allows Homework questions and practice exercises with proper effort presentation too.
 
yeah each site has their own culture i guess
the culture of the physics community here are very anti homework
@ManolisLyviakis, the field would be non-zero as u say
the field would only depend on the charge of the inner sphere
 
so the system metal shell-sphere odes not have the property o a conductor that the field is zero inside
 
11:31 AM
the field is 0 inside the innersphere
then non-zero between the inner sphere and the outer-shell
 
so i got 3 vallues for E depending on distance
0 ,$ Q/2πr^2ε_ο$, $Q/4πr^2ε_0$
 
looks right to me
of course, a different story if the inner sphere isn't a conductor
@ManolisLyviakis this looks like ur problem: physicsforums.com/threads/…
 
is homework important? I recall when I was in high school, undergraduate and graduate schools, homework was the part taking the smallest proportion in the total semester grade, too small to motivate me to do the homework.
 
something is important if it helps to achieve something else
so homework can be important if it is marked
but it can also be important if it helps you to learn the material better to get a better mark on the test
homework is important if you think you'll get something out of it that can be applied elsewhere
 
I didn't submit homework to teachers often but I seldom fail a course.
because homework really took too small proportion in the semester grade.
 
11:44 AM
Well in that case, if you can still do well in the test without doing the homework, maybe your time is better spent on something else
 
I don't know whether getting good mark in test has to do with whether one does the homework. Maybe because I did too little homework to have chance to make the comparison. Or maybe teachers don't give test questions closely related to homework.
 
Yeah I think it is a combination of factors that determine how well you do on the test
But homework may have benefits external to the test
You may understand the subject alot better from doing the homework, even if it doesn't correlate highly with exam performance
So then it comes down to whether ur doing the subject to get the marks, or doing the subject to get the knowledge
 
the proportion of homework in the total semester grade is usually less than 10% in my schools.
 
I've never had homework graded personally
 
what so you mean by graded personally?
 
11:51 AM
meaning, my personal experience is that homework has never been part of the grading system
 
We agree sometimes homework would make me understand the subject better, but I usually lacked time to do homework.
 
the grades were usually based on exam or occasional assignment
what fills up ur time @CaptainBohemian?
 
isn't occasional assignment just homework?
 
yeah
but in my culture the terms are colloquially used for different things
homework usually refers to assigned textbook problems or simple practice exercises
whereas an assignment is usually a larger research task or lab write up
are these differentiated in your country?
 
I don't know. I usually found I didn't have time to finish all homework when submission time is due, so I just gave up doing it altogether.
 
11:55 AM
it's not optimal, but we all have our constraints and have to just do the best we can do under them
 
I guess I was not studious enough, because I also often had difficulty finishing preparing for an exam.
Because I started to prepare for the exam too late. I also started to do the homework too late.
well, my country doesn't use English. So I don't know what is the difference between homework and assignment.
well, I mean we don't use English for usual terms, but professors still usually use English for physics jargons.
 
12:16 PM
[Big scary maths]
\begin{align}e^{e^{\int \ln \int} \ln \int} = \sum_{s=0}^{\infty}\left(\sum_{q=1}^{\infty}\sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \left(\int \sum_{m=1}^{\infty}\int^{(m)}\sum_{p=0}^m\frac{(-1)^{2m+1-p}\binom{m}{p}}{(n!)^{‌​\frac{1}{n}}m}\right)^n\int^{(q)}\sum_{r=0}^q\frac{(-1)^{2q+1-r}\binom{q}{r}}{(s!‌​)^{\frac{1}{s}}q}\right)^s \end{align}
 
Hi again. What will be diagram for this? I can’t imagine situation meritnation.com/ask-answer/question/…
 
Hello, guys. Is there any condensed matter physicist here?
 
12:36 PM
@DawoodibnKareem : I know what an electron is. It isn't stranger than you know. It's simpler than you think. And the clues are there, in the literature.
@Mockingbird360 : not me. But maybe a couple of things have rubbed off on me. What do you want to talk about?
 
@JohnDuffield What are top institutions in research for topological condensed matter physics?
I know Princeton University is both good in theory and experiment in this area.
 
@Mockingbird360 : Sorry. I don't know.
 
@JohnRennie The moment of inertia of a square of side a about its diagonal is $\dfrac{Ma^2}{12}$. Now if I cut it through the diagonal into two equal triangular pieces, wouldn't the moment of inertia of each about that diagonal be $\dfrac{Ma^2}{24}$? (coz MI is a scalar quantity)
 
Take a look at what is an electron? by Frank Wilczek. He said “to understand the electron is to understand the world”. That’s good. But he also said “there are several inconsistent answers, each correct”. That’s not good. Wilczek then said “the proper quantum mechanical description of electrons involves wave functions, whose oscillation patterns are standing waves”. That’s good.
But he also said “the electron is a simple point-particle”. That’s not good.
Because it isn't.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:29 PM
Is there any difference between spring and wire in physics? My book is using “work done in stretching wire is $W=\dfrac12 kx^2$
 
does a wire have elasticity?
wire: Metal that has been drawn out into a strand or rod, used chiefly for structural support, as in concrete, and for conducting electricity, when it is usually insulated with a rubber or plastic cladding.
ok, it does.
 
3:03 PM
@Fawad Certainly if they're using that expression for work done, that wire is being treated as an ideal spring.
 
@Abcd Yes it would
 
@JohnRennie Do you know how to identify HOMO-LUMO by looking at the structure?
 
depends on what structure
 
@Secret Sending...
 
@Abcd I'm not sure there is an easy way to do that ...
 
3:14 PM
 
With a bit of experience you can look at a simple molecule and guess what the molecular orbitals are going to look like.
 
@Secret Avnish (a person on chem.se) has made complex with top oxygen but I say that it should be made with middle one
There are two lone pairs on middle oxygen too
So now it boils down to : Which is HOMO?
The top oxygen's or the middle ones'
@JohnRennie Any idea about this one...^^
I was peacefully studying physics then my friend sent this question (this is a part of the mechanism of the reaction he sent) to me and now I am stuck myself.
 
@Abcd I doubt you can predict that. You just need to know which oxygen forms the complex. It's a furan isn't it?
Oh, no, furans have double bonds ...
 
yeah. they are aromatic
 
@nitsua60 hmm I should have got hint when it said “force constant K” . I was thinking of young’s modulus.
 
3:20 PM
Aha, succinic anhydride
 
ok, organics and main group simple compounds are quite nice and have quite localised orbitals, so you can somewhat guess it.

This molecule does not have an extensive pi system it seems and any attempt to draw resonance structures of it so that the middle oxygen has -1 formal charge will result in the other oxygen to have +1 formal charge, which to 1st order means the resonance contributors that can enrich the electron density at the middle O is unfavourable. Meanwhile the O at the sides have a lot of electrons in some s character orbital thus it can easily donate to the electron deficient
as for MO diagrams, I don't recall heterooxygen rings with single bonds have any special properties that can distort their MOs or something, though I am not entirely certain
 
@Secret when I draw the resonance structure I get: top : positve, Middle: positive, Bottom: negative
And top and bottom are equivalent.
So Avnish is right I guess.
 
@Fawad Yeah, the moment I see a "wire" I'm thinking either (a) inelastic and perfectly flexible transmission of tensile force or (b) deformation and Young's modulus. To see that word used in an ideal spring problem is... strange. (If it were an advanced materials/mechanics engineering class, for instance, and one were looking at regimes of elasticity vs. deformation, that'd be a different thing. But that's not the feel I was getting.)
 
vzn
3:40 PM
@nitsua60 hi curious what physics you studied at cu boulder.
 
@vzn My research was with the nuclear group. A little work at DESY, but then a few years on a project at Fermi.
 
vzn
cool
 
But really I just played a lot of Ultimate =\
 
vzn
7 hours ago, by John Rennie
@DawoodibnKareem all of physics is a mathematical model that describes reality
generally agreed but models have to be carefully finetuned by humans over time to have highest accuracy/ fidelity possible
@nitsua60 great sport its popular around there. have played a few times myself (over the yrs). very intense aerobic workout. frisbee golf is fun too.
 
3:58 PM
yeah, so it attacks the side oxygen first, bleh, looks like I get a bit rusty on heterooxygen chemistry but then other than furans and epoxide we don't cover much back then
 
4:34 PM
@JohnRennie Are you free now?
My trackpad seems to be misbehaving for some reason
whatever command i do with it, the trackpad does the complete opposite (I scroll down it scrolls up etc..)
 
@PrathyushPoduval sounds as if it's been inverted. Have you looked in the control panel at the trackpad settings?
 
@JohnRennie Oh no, it's not an immediate action, it first scrolls down, but immediately does the opposite
 
@PrathyushPoduval I was born free baby
 
@PrathyushPoduval If you open the Control Panel, then the Mouse icon, is there a link for configuring the trackpad there?
 
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
 
4:40 PM
@JohnRennie I'm in a change mouse settings
 
What model of laptop is it?
 
yeah im in it
Hp pavillion
The problem seems to have subsided now
 
Hmm, OK.
 
just a few seconds back, the trackpad was revolting against me
 
Happened to me before.
 
4:43 PM
happending again.... the pointer pauses in between for a second before continuing while I was moving it
seems to be random occurences
 
Have you tried powering off then powering on again?
 
@JohnRennie the scroll problem is happening again (it's staying up)
No
I'll try that
@JohnRennie I think it's gone... for now
@Tanuj what did you do?
 
@PrathyushPoduval I wouldn't worry about it. Trackpads do play up occasionally.
 
@PrathyushPoduval It just went away ..
 
alright, hopefully it'll never torment me again
 
Anonymous
5:10 PM
@JohnRennie How to add feeds to a chat room so that the main site and meta questions are posted as regular chat messages? I tried adding the URL of the newest questions in the manage feeds page, but it doesn't seem to be working
 
Anonymous
 
The feeds for this room are:
http://meta.physics.stackexchange.com/feeds
 
Anonymous
So should I type in this: https://quantumcomputing.stackexchange.com/questions?sort=newest/feeds in the message feeds section (image above)?
 
Guess who got his paper copy of "Lost causes in physics" B)
 
Anonymous
5:19 PM
Ah, wow, where did you find it?
 
Anonymous
I was looking for it
 
The internet!
It's a nice book for a lot of weird QM-related issues
mostly a lot of Bohm-related stuff
 
I'd love to know what the Nelson section says
 
Anonymous
@JohnRennie I need the one for meta, too, as others were requesting
 
I remember reading his papers on 'deriving' quantum mechanics or something, which boils down to what Schrodinger does in his first paper, a big averaging
 
5:22 PM
https://quantumcomputing.meta.stackexchange.com/feeds
 
Anonymous
https://quantumcomputing.meta.stackexchange.com/feeds
 
Anonymous
Ah, so you just add "feeds" at the end of the URL
 
Anonymous
Cool
 
Also Dirac's program of quantization is not a lost cause right
 
Well, it is in the list!
I'll have to read the book to say for sure
 
5:32 PM
@knzhou I just wanted to say that I think your question here
8
Q: Why do we care about old-style, counterterm renormalizability?

knzhouThere are a few different definitions of renormalizability that are standard in quantum field theory textbooks. They're all called the same thing, but I'll make up names to make the distinctions clear. A theory is counterterm renormalizable if all of its divergences can be absorbed by a finite ...

 
Oh basically he just says that Dirac quantization doesn't work bc of ordering problems
So nothing too shocking
 
has the kind of "high-level"-nature that many people have complained is lacking on Physics, and that by asking question like that you do more to contribute to such content coming here than all the wailing and whinging that has gone before.
Thanks.
 
@dmckee You can't actually talk to people on the chat if they've never come here
They won't get a notice of your message
 
@Slereah There was a completion for his username when I started typing it.
 
Anonymous
@Slereah knzhou does visit the chat once in a while
 
5:35 PM
Ah good then
 
So I didn't have to invoke the moderator power supper-ping.
 
So the lost causes in physics book also came with a bookmark
A Peppa Pig bookmark
Bit of an odd choice
 
I was about to say "Pics. Or it didn't happen.", but I see that it did. Beautiful.
 
Is there a way to seperate particles from a beamline?
Using magnets
 
"However, Landau and Tsirelson were able to derive the Bell's inequalities without any such locality postulate"
Whaaaat
First page and I'm already learning things!
 
5:41 PM
Landau Landau? Really, what reference
I'd love to see what he says about this stuff
 
"I decided to write the first part of the website, Lost causes in physics, after I received an e-mail asking whether, in view of Bell's theorem, Wightman and I were going to rewrite our book, "PCT, spin and statistics and all that", to allow for non-local fields. The answer was NO."
 
A Tsirelson bound is an upper limit to quantum mechanical correlations between distant events. Given that quantum mechanics is non-local, i.e., that quantum mechanical correlations violate Bell inequalities, a natural question to ask is "how non-local can quantum mechanics be?", or, more precisely, by how much can the Bell inequality be violated. The answer is precisely the Tsirelson bound for the particular Bell inequality in question. In general this bound is lower than what would be algebraically possible, and much research has been dedicated to the question of why this is the case. The Tsirelson...
hmm
Oh man it's that guy, wow
PCT
 
@dmckee I heard that you studied particles physics. Is there any apparatus to differentiate a beam of particles to kaon beams muon beams electron beams ...
 
yeah
It's Streater
hence not just any quantum jerk
 
Not that Landau :(
Lubos (praise be to) said all those old boys knew Bell's stuff as too obvious to be stated as a theorem...
 
5:48 PM
Landau was a soviet guy
 
vzn
@bolbteppa lol you sound skeptical...
 
He had to adhere to the official soviet interpretation of qm
Ensemble interpretation IIRC
 
vzn
@Slereah yes found those paragraphs re history of aspect/ bohm et al quite fascinating myself (browsing amazon look-inside). calling a press conference? never heard that one o_O
 
He was basically the originator of that official interpretation iirc, and it hurt progress in things like Yang-Mills
 
listening to the friday high energy seminar is amazingly frustrating when the high energy profs won't stop interrupting the speaker. i'd like to actually learn something but it's really hard to do that when the speaker's time slot gets eaten up by trivialities.
 
5:53 PM
My vague understanding is he makes a really compelling case that interacting theories are completely useless, by inherent quantum properties, you can only look at them as part of transitions between free theories, while something like Yang-Mills is inherently interacting, so I can see why there'd be an issue, but I don't know the resolution yet
 
also the book is only 160 pages and fairly equation-free
It should be a light read
Except for the conceptual notions, I suppose!
 
"I am closer to Feynman who would say that it is not a theorem that anybody considers of any particular importance in quantum mechanics" motls.blogspot.com/2014/11/…
 
"I first learnt about Frieden's attempt to derive all the laws of physics from information theory from a colleague who had bought the book "Physics from Fisher information" at the bookstall at the airport."
What airport has these books
 
@dmckee thank you! I'm glad people have found my morning rant/question useful. :P
 
I have a feeling Landau's version of path integrals would be that worldline formalism perspective, I can't find anything on that either
 
6:01 PM
This book is fairly fun
Hey it's Strongbad!
Poor Bohm
He really believed in his theory!
And it turned him into a joke
Same thing as Fred Hoyle
 
He ended up in South America over it
 
the worst fate
 
[Random ramble] "red pill blue pill, which to take"
 
red pill has taken on a new connotation since 2015/16
 
what is it?
 
6:08 PM
 
what about the redbill
The red-billed teal or red-billed duck (Anas erythrorhyncha) is a dabbling duck which is an abundant resident breeder in southern and eastern Africa typically south of 10° S. This duck is not migratory, but will fly great distances to find suitable waters. It is highly gregarious outside the breeding season and forms large flocks. The red-billed teal is 43–48 centimetres (17–19 in) long and has a blackish cap and nape, contrasting pale face, and bright red bill. The body plumage is a dull dark brown scalloped with white. Flight reveals that the secondary flight feathers are buff with a black stripe...
 
@xuBe Of course. But how you do it depends on information you haven't given. The vocabulary word for the general problem is "particle identification" AKA "particle ID" AKA "PID" (not to be confused with a proportional-integral-differential" controller).
 
I get the impression that Streater spends a lot of the book being mean to Bohm :p
Fun but it may get old!
 
Apparently deservedly
 
Morning
 
Anonymous
6:09 PM
Night
 
also he's being mean about things he hasn't explained yet!
The Bell theorem is only proven in chapter 8!
 
Anonymous
@SirCumference It's close to 12 here
 
Anonymous
11:41 pm :P
 
Ah
It's 2:00pm here, but when I'm on break that's considered morning
 
6:13 PM
There's just too much basic stuff to learn before one gets to this crazy stuff properly tbh :(
 
Anonymous
@SirCumference I just woke up from sleep sometime back. So this is sort of "morning time" for me too
 
I can't believe I never realized it was solvability of the monodromy group of a polynomial that links to solvability in radicals, and it's isomorphic in some sense to the Galois group, need to do this stuff properly now too
26
Q: Abel and Galois

Mark SapirQuestion Is there a connection between Abel and Galois theories of polynomial equations? Recall that for every polynomial $p(x)\in \mathbb{Q}[x]$ (say, without the free coefficient), Abel considered the monodromy group of the Riemann surface of the analytic function $w(z)$ defined by $p(w(z))+z...

This has to be one of the most awesome things in math tbh
 
neeeerd
 
@BernardoMeurer By any chance do you know how to edit the <meta name="description" ...> tag on a github repo?
 
6:40 PM
@JohnRennie help pls, keyboard is revolting now
whenever itpye
the cursor goes to the starting automatically
sometimes, it automatically selects what i've written in the current line (and i end up overwriting it by mistake)
 
user image
2
 
A dystopian forms whenever we handle things too excessively in (insert anything)
Trying to reduce individuals into scalars, is perhaps the worst decision ever made
In other words, everything is reduced to a scalar, highly reductive
 
Anonymous
7:10 PM
@Slereah The "quantum-bogosort" thing is just a joke, right? A question regarding that came up in the QC SE, and I tried to be as technically correct as possible. Is any physical equivalent-implementation of it, possible?
 
@Blue yes
it is a joke
 
Anonymous
I tried hard to find its origin, but couldn't really come up with anything
 
Anonymous
It looks like a Reddit joke
 
Anonymous
I see, thanks
 
7:36 PM
"Classical probabilities are a special case of quantum probabilities, and Bayes rule is a special case of the collapse of the wavepacket"
 
7:47 PM
Can someone tell me in their own words (taking into account the fact that I'm an infant of the mind) What jacobi elliptic functions are, and how to rewrite them in the jacobi theta language
I'm looking at the Wikipedia page right now
 
IIRC the Jacobi elliptic functions are like 3 steps removed from being an actual understandable thing
Some applications
 
@Slereah thank you. checking out the links
 
Of interest : Jacobi elliptic functions are an exact solution of $\phi^4$ Klein Gordon
"These subjects, it is argued, are not worth pursuing (unless you have tenure)"
 
wow, yeah I have been dreaming math for the past 3 weeks thinking about these things
They are deep and hard
I started with a very childish looking integral, but then things got complicated fast
what are more fertile and appropriate avenues of pursuit these days?
 
Oil exploration
if you love money
 
7:57 PM
I really do love money
Would similar mathematical techniques be used in such fields?
 

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