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00:00 - 14:0014:00 - 00:00

2:00 PM
@JohnRennie my performance is in the shitter already
I just need to try some links
 
If you use Chrome you should be safe unless you do something blatantly careless like download and run a .exe file.
 
"should be"
I want to be 100% safe
 
Nothing is 100% safe on the net, pal.
 
maybe I should do it on my USB linux
@JohnRennie could USB linux possibly infect my computer?
 
@0celo7 yes, if your USB linux aquired a virus that virus might write copies of itself onto your hard disk. But this is a very small risk.
 
2:06 PM
@JohnRennie Clearly I should unplug the HDD and pop out the M.2
 
If you plan to explore the seamier side of the Internet with any regularity I'd get a cheap laptop from eBay and use that. Then if it gets infected just wipe it. You'd get a good laptop for $200.
 
@JohnRennie Or just buy another M.2!!
maybe viruses will make it go faster
 
I've never got a virus from surfing the web.
 
@JohnRennie I've gotten some strange cookies that make google do weird things
 
I've never had that happen to me.
 
2:10 PM
I won't speculate where I got them
@JohnRennie can one freeze basil?
I'm trying to grow a plant in my apartment but it's giving up
 
@0celo7 Yes, and in fact that's an excellent way to store it.
But note that when it defrosts it will loose its scent more rapidly than fresh basil (presumably due to cell damage) so defrost it at the last minute.
Also it will make your whole freezer smell of basil :-)
 
Sid
@0celo7 Plant doesn't like you obviously. :P
 
Anonymous
Grow a cactus.
 
Anonymous
 
Anonymous
These do look cool
 
2:20 PM
Not edible though ...
 
Sid
Not everything needs to be edible.
Sometimes, it's just for aesthetic value. :P
 
@Sid Balderdash and piffle
 
Anonymous
@JohnRennie Some cacti are edible
 
indeed
 
For a small and eclectic subset of meanings of the word edible
 
Anonymous
2:22 PM
This is a list of edible plants in the family Cactaceae. Acanthocereus tetragonus, the sword pear, Browningia candelaris, Carnegiea gigantea, the Saguaro, Cereus repandus - California and Florida genus Corryocactus (also known as Erdisia), the tasty berrylike C. brevistylis, C. pulquiensis, and C. erectus Coryphantha C. robbinsorum and C. recurvata. genus Echinocereus ("Strawberry Cactus") E. engelmannii, E. bonkerae, E. boyce-thompsonii E. enneacanthus, E. cincerascens, E. stramineus E. dasyacanthus, E. fendleri and E. fasciculatus E. brandegeei, E. ledingii and E. nicholii E. engelmannii (...
 
I have eaten prickly pear cactus and it's rubbish
 
Hold your tongue John Rennie
 
Pressed tongue is very nice thinly sliced with some nice bread
 
yes
texture is a bit mental though
 
Yes, it's an odd texture. Very smooth.
 
Anonymous
2:24 PM
How many tongues have you guys eaten?
 
Anonymous
:'D
 
a few
 
@Blue Ox tongue is a standard part of British cuisine
 
Anonymous
@JohnRennie Whew
 
Beef tongue or neat's tongue is a dish made of the tongue of a cow. Beef tongue is very high in fat, and 72% of its calories come from fat. Some countries, including Canada and specifically the province of Alberta, export large quantities of beef tongue. == Preparation == Beef tongue is often seasoned with onion and other spices, and then placed in a pot to boil. After it has cooked the skin is removed. Pickled tongue is often used by the preparer because it is already spiced. If cooked in a sauce, it can then later be reused as a sauce for meatballs or any other food item. Another way o...
 
Anonymous
2:26 PM
I'll perhaps vomit if I'm given that
 
Anonymous
On the other hand there are people eating ants, rodents and what not....XD
 
Sid
@JohnRennie What the....?
 
The food you like tends to be the food you grew up eating. If you have never eaten tongue before then it's quite possible you won't like it.
 
Anonymous
@JohnRennie I've grown up eating green vegetables but I still hate them.
 
Anonymous
lol
 
2:28 PM
@Blue :-)
 
Sid
@JohnRennie I could probably eat that if no one told me it is a tongue. :P
 
@Sid You mean :| , that tongue was sticking out!
 
And that's expensive! About 2,500 rupees per kilo
 
I'll better settle for beef.......
 
2:30 PM
how is it possible to hate vegetables
I do want some McDonald's actually...
 
Sid
@JaimeGallego Hmm?
Oh, lol
 
Anyway, yesterday's late night is beginning to tell. I'm going to retire to my armchair and snooze for a bit.
 
Anonymous
tata
 
Sid
@JohnRennie You are sleeping too early.
 
Anonymous
He wakes up at 4am :P I guess it is an afternoon nap
 
Sid
2:33 PM
Oh, right.
I fell asleep playing contact today. :P
 
Anyone heard about the Babylonian clay tablet thing? It's nice and all, but the news stories seem overblown.
"The tablet not only contains the world's oldest trigonometric table; it is also the only completely accurate trigonometric table, because of the very different Babylonian approach to arithmetic and geometry."
 
...what does "completely accurate" mean?
 
I don't know either!
Apparently they did some magic with ratios
But I don't see the news in that
It's trigonometry
PROPOSITION 458: DESTROY COMMON CORE AND TEACH OUR KIDS BABYLONIAN MATH
 
Sid
2:53 PM
^Agreed.
 
I though most of trig was irrational
did they even have irrational numbers
@ACuriousMind Is it advisable to unplug my power LED cables on my case?
The flashing light when the computer is asleep is quite annoying
Or is there a setting to take care of that?
@JaimeGallego too
 
Just a sec, will lose the bus otherwise
The LED light and the button itself should have different wires
Disconnect the LED one and good to go
 
Right
 
3:14 PM
@ACuriousMind did you see that new paper about TCS?
 
@Danu Yes, it seems to contain the answer to one of my questions
 
ah, neat
the title did seem extremely similar ;D
 
3:29 PM
Whuut theee😂😂😂
 
@0ßelö7 Oh, it all makes sense now. N. Wildberger is behind the journal article.
 
@JaimeGallego is that the rational trig weirdo
 
Anonymous
"0ßelö7" ?...phew. 0celo7's brothers seem to be notorious account hackers.
 
n j wildberger thinks the circle is $\Bbb Q/\Bbb Z$
and he does homotopy theory with that
 
3:40 PM
I really wonder how this thing of his started
 
i have no idea
 
What initially convinced him that the construction of reals doesn't work?
Does he not believe in completions of metric spaces, period?
 
Anonymous
4:18 PM
Our physics professor said in class yesterday that entropy change of a system during irreversible cyclic processes may not be 0. That......sounds soooo wrong esp. because entropy is a state function. Perhaps I should stop attending his classes. :P
 
@Blue For irreversible processes, that seems right...
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir24601 Note the word "cyclic"
 
@Blue What do they mean by cyclic in this case?
 
It's a loop on the space of states.
Hm, is entropy really a state function even if I consider them over irreversible processes?
 
(normally I'd say it must be reversible to be cyclic, so they're probably using a different definition)
 
Anonymous
4:21 PM
@Mithrandir24601 The indicator P-V diagram is a closed loop
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir24601 Why can't a series of irreversible thermodynamic processes produce a closed loop on the P-V diagram ?
 
@Blue So there's still energy lost, so it's still cyclic in that sense...
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir24601 So? The net entropy change is still 0.
 
(as in, energy leaves to the environment)
 
@BalarkaSen no
it's a path function
 
4:23 PM
@Blue If it's not reversible though, change in entropy can't be $0$
 
@Blue Ref. @0ßelö7
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir24601 That's definitely not true. Entropy is a function of the state variables P,V,T. If you go back to the same point where you started the entropy change is 0.
 
It's not a conservative functional over irreversible paths.
 
@Blue Nope
(not necessarily)
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir24601 Okay, why?
 
Anonymous
 
I have an image, but it's not copying :/ Give me a minute...
[reference: image 1.9 from W. Allison's thermal & statistical physics lecture notes]
 
Anonymous
Okay. So how is the the entropy change not 0?
 
@Blue So some energy is lost in an irreversible process, right?
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir24601 Yes. And energy can be lost as heat even in reversible processes.
 
Or, better put, if you want to keep it 'cyclic' you need to input energy into the system. When I say lost, I just mean 'lost to the environment'
 
Anonymous
4:39 PM
@Mithrandir24601 Yes. But that is also true for cyclic reversible processes. Rather, "all" cyclic processes.
 
@Blue So, energy, entropy etc. all that are functions of (P, V, T)
@Blue Erm...
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir24601 Yes. Then?
 
Anonymous
For any cyclic process you need to input heat energy into the system. Or else how would the heat engine work?
 
@Blue so when you get back to the same point, the energy has changed
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir24601 Which energy?
 
4:48 PM
@Blue the energy of the system
 
Anonymous
Not at all. Change in Internal energy is 0 in any cyclic process.
 
Anonymous
A thermodynamic cycle consists of a linked sequence of thermodynamic processes that involve transfer of heat and work into and out of the system, while varying pressure, temperature, and other state variables within the system, and that eventually returns the system to its initial state. In the process of passing through a cycle, the working fluid (system) may convert heat from a warm source into useful work, and dispose of the remaining heat to a cold sink, thereby acting as a heat engine. Conversely, the cycle may be reversed and use work to move heat from a cold source and transfer it to a warm...
 
Anonymous
"During a closed cycle, the system returns to its original thermodynamic state of temperature and pressure. Process quantities (or path quantities), such as heat and work are process dependent. For a cycle for which the system returns to its initial state the first law of thermodynamics applies:"
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir24601 I can prove it mathematically if you wish. It's just first law of thermodynamics coupled with the gas equation (let's assume ideal for the time being).
 
@Blue I'm on the phone atm, sorry
 
Anonymous
4:55 PM
Internal Energy $U$ is always written as a function of $P,V$ i.e. $U(P,V)$
 
Anonymous
If you return to the same coordinate $P,V$ where you started, then $U_f=U_i$
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir24601 Okay, we can discuss this later
 
Anonymous
@0ßelö7 The very definition of entropy was written so that it can be considered a state function. I'd like a source for your claim that it is a path function.
 
Anonymous
5:11 PM
This is a great pdf on entropy. Cleared many of my confusions.
 
@Blue Good :) Does the above picture make sense? And does the whole reversible/irreversible thing make sense now?
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir24601 Huh, I still don't agree with your point that entropy change in cyclic process with irreversible components/paths has net non-zero entropy change.
 
@Blue Essentially, if upon completing a 'cycle', the energy is the same, you can repeat as many times as you like, so it's reversible, but equally, this also means that the entropy hasn't changed - did you read the above Figure 1.9?
(maybe I'm not being pedantic enough about 'energy of what' I'm referring to)
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir24601 I think you are defining "reversible" in a different way. By reversible I mean each and every path of that process is reversible.
 
@Blue yeah...
 
Anonymous
5:22 PM
In your diagram the adiabatic paths are not "reversible"
 
@Blue That's the point
 
Anonymous
Okay, that was a semantics problem then.
 
Anonymous
By "irreversible" cycle I meant that one or more of the paths followed in the cycle is not reversible.
 
Anonymous
If the professor was following your line of thought, then he should NOT have said irreversible cycle.
 
@Blue because the 'paths aren't reversible', you return to a 'slightly different' point and so, the entropy has increased 'cause statistics
@Blue This is also what I mean...
@Blue So it's still a 'cycle' in some sense, only you have to put energy into the system to keep it 'cycling'
And so, it's not a reversible cycle. As I said earlier, he just meant something different by 'cycle'
 
5:32 PM
@Mithrandir24601 I quite like that figure. Does it come from a readily available source?
 
@dmckee Nope. Or at least, I highly doubt it...
 
Can you tell me who to credit if I steal it? I would quite like to steal it.
 
@dmckee I don't know who drew it, but the lecture notes were by Bill Allison
I think the lecturer was Richard Needs
 
Thanks. I guess that will have to do.
 
I might be wrong there...
OK, in more detail:
lecture notes/Supplementary Course Material by W. Allison
Written for Natural Science Tripos, part II in 2013
Thermal and Statistical Physics
 
Anonymous
5:42 PM
@Mithrandir24601 Nah nah, that's not true. A process with irreversible paths is perfectly capable of reaching the same point where it started. In your diagram itself the path is "closed"!
 
Ah. Thanks.
 
Anonymous
 
@Blue Because extra energy has been put into the system from outside the system
 
Anonymous
 
Anonymous
Look at the circled portion
 
Anonymous
5:44 PM
If the process began at that point
 
Anonymous
Then it also ended at that point
 
Anonymous
The (P,V) coordinates remains the same at the end of the process
 
The system returns to the same sate in all cycles (that being how we define "cycle").
 
@Blue Nope - it has a specific starting point - that dot in the bottom right corner
 
But reversibility requires more than that.
 
Anonymous
5:45 PM
@Mithrandir24601 You are misinterpreting the graph
 
Anonymous
That dotted line shows an ideal reversible cycle
 
Anonymous
With all paths reversible
 
I'm still looking for a good, one-sentence description of the extra requirement that doesn't require and intuitive understanding of entropy.
 
@Blue yep
 
But the dotted line is a constructed to be a reversible cycle and the solid one is irreversible.
 
Anonymous
5:46 PM
@dmckee In the cycle that @Mithrandir24601's diagram shows is the net entropy change 0 or not?
 
@Blue The figure shows two possible cycles. One of each kind.
 
Anonymous
@dmckee Of course. And for each one the net entropy change is 0! Right?
 
And the irreversible one is a good approximation to real attempts to realize an ideal engine.
@Blue The entropy change of the system is zero for both.
 
Anonymous
^ That
 
But the entropy change of the universe differs.
 
Anonymous
5:48 PM
@Mithrandir24601
 
Anonymous
Of course. I've been talking about the system all this while.
 
Crucial difference.
 
Anonymous
The entropy change of the surroundings is definitely not 0 for the graph with bold lines.
 
@Blue ah.
 
Anonymous
lol...have we been debating over something as silly as this?
 
Anonymous
5:49 PM
lol
 
Anonymous
:d
 
Let's forget this ever happened :P
 
Anonymous
Hehe...mis-communication can cause wars XD
 
@Blue Yep...
 
 
3 hours later…
8:33 PM
the P = NP proof by Blum is wrong:
192
Q: Is Norbert Blum's 2017 proof that $P \ne NP$ correct?

Warren SchudyNorbert Blum recently posted a 38-page proof that $P \ne NP$. Is it correct? Also on topic: where else (on the internet) is its correctness being discussed? Note: the focus of this question text has changed over time. See question comments for details.

sadness, much sadness
 
@heather Shame, but I'm not really surprised. Still... It might(?) mean that they're getting closer
 
yes, hopefully.
 
8:53 PM
on a similar note, I need to show that the space of test functions is separable
 
9:15 PM
How is summer already over ;-;
 
it was over for me this past wednesday @SirCumference =(
 
@heather Oh, are you starting high school?
 
i did this past wednesday, yeah.
 
9:37 PM
@SirCumference Yay! I get about 3 weeks off from next Friday :)
 
Anonymous
9:55 PM
@heather New school?
 
Anonymous
Or are you continuing in the same school as before?
 
same school.
 
Anonymous
I see
 
yep. it's weird how my district does it - 6/7 grades are in the same building, 8/9 in the same, and 10/11/12 in the same.
so while i'm in highschool (i have a GPA and everything), i'm not in the highschool building until next year.
 
Anonymous
10:09 PM
In our school we had two buildings. One for grades LKG-2. And another for 3-12. :p
 
Anonymous
Oh, and there was a playschool also
 
Anonymous
For kids of age 1.5-2.5 years
 
Anonymous
But that was located a bit further away
 
whats cookin'
 
Anonymous
Difficult to find cooked food at midnight >:P
 
Anonymous
10:18 PM
I'm feeling hungry now
 
Anonymous
Almost 4am
 
how about cooked memes
that's what i'm going to spend the rest of the night finding
 
Anonymous
Sure
 
Anonymous
But not food memes :'D
 
@Blue chug some water
 
Anonymous
10:19 PM
Or else I might eat my pc screen out of desperation
 
Anonymous
@BalarkaSen lol
 
Anonymous
okay
 
here is a cooking guide that might help
 
@BalarkaSen Just had some lovely salmon :)
Although I cooked some salmon a few weeks ago that was either the best or second best thing I've ever made
 
Actually, this is a much better food porn
 
10:23 PM
chat keeps refreshing
it usually does that when I get banned
 
Anonymous
Ah, maggi is my best friend. I'm eating it raw. :D
 
Anonymous
Just found a packet in the storeroom
 
what?
 
Anonymous
lol
 
Anonymous
wow...that's......unexpected :'D
 
Anonymous
10:26 PM
I am eating the author
 
Anonymous
No more books for you :P
 
lmao
@Blue it's a good book btw
every now and then there are some hiccups
 
Anonymous
@0ßelö7 Always good to drink water after eating raw maggi ;)
 
@Blue yeah raw noodles don't really help with the functional analysis
 
Anonymous
 
@Blue o Maggi master, how does one show that $\mathscr E(\Bbb R^d)$ is second countable?
 
Anonymous
@0ßelö7 By adding cheese and frying it. Don't forget to add salt and pepper. Finally you will be able to "see". :D
 
Anonymous
 
Anonymous
Yumm
 
Anonymous
I need these
 
10:50 PM
the phrase "stock cubes" is a little disconcerting
 
Anonymous
A bouillon cube (Canada and US) or stock cube (Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, South Africa, UK) or broth cube (Philippines) is dehydrated bouillon (French for broth) or stock formed into a small cube about 15 mm wide. It is typically made from dehydrated vegetables, meat stock, a small portion of fat, MSG, salt and seasonings, shaped into a small cube. Vegetarian and vegan types are also made. Bouillon is also available in both granular or powdered form. == History and general information == Dehydrated meat stock, in the form of tablets, was known in the 17th century to Anne Blencowe who died...
 
Anonymous
@heather umm, why?
 
@heather theyre really good
they're dried spices, etc. that you can throw in fluids
 
sure, but i don't know, it strikes me as kind of funny phrasing ::shrugs::
 
11:23 PM
@Mithrandir24601 I had some lovely cod fish just now, which is more expensive than salmon. =D
@0ßelö7 I see you have many books on GMT. =D
By the way, are questions about books on topic for the main site?
That day I asked about some books in this chat, but no response.
Anyway, I just wanted to ask if one can read the Landau Lifshitz Course of Theoretical Physics immediately after Feynman Lectures on Physics, that is all. I just want to know if we need any intermediate books!
 
@WillHunting It's not about the cost :P I actually don't like cod :P
 
@Mithrandir24601 Yeah, maybe it can have a strong smell, lol.
 
@WillHunting It's not that - I like every fish except for cod for some reason, although there's a part of me that thinks it's because (within the past few years anyway) I've only ever tried not-great-quality cod, as it seems to have an unpleasantness to it that I can only describe as Vietnamese farmed fish... I don't (think I) have any issues with Vietnamese food, it's just the fish :/
 
@Mithrandir24601 Cod and salmon are the two nicest tasting actually. Erm, by the way, do you know the answer to my above question?
 
@WillHunting No, sorry - I've seen (and certainly know of) Landau & Lifshitz, but I've never actually read it
 
11:33 PM
@Mithrandir24601 I see. Hmm, the Russians write many books on math and physics, too bad I don't want to learn Russian, lol.
 
@WillHunting trout's also particularly good, as is haddock, sea bass, plaice, ::realises I'm just listing fish::...
 
@Mithrandir24601 Actually, I don't even know the names of most of the fishes I eat. And I never go to the supermarket to buy fish to cook. I have eaten takeaway my whole life, lol.
 
@WillHunting :'(
try some sushi sometime
 
11:47 PM
@WillHunting uh, so?
@dmckee Is there any way I could persuade you to superping yuggib for me?
 
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