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8:38 AM
So
What symbol to use for a chart and what symbol to use for a local trivialization
If I must use both
 
2
Q: Local trivialization of the cotangent bundle

Eric AuldIn defining the cotangent bundle, Spivak in his differential geometry book, says Then later, I don't understand what he means by this last comment. It seems to me that $y_*' \circ (x_*')^{-1}$ and $y_* \circ x_*^{-1}$ don't even have the same domain. How could they be equal?

It seeemed local trivialisation is often defined as a map $t$ from some chart $U$ to some tangent bundle $U \times \Bbb{R}^n$
 
@Slereah Why would you choose two different things for that? Choose an atlas of contractible charts and you've got a trivialization for free.
 
I mean the function
 
what function?
 
$\phi : U \to \Bbb R^n$ and $t : \pi^{-1}(U) \to U \times \mathscr F$
 
8:49 AM
ah, these
 
Wondering the usual notation for it
One paper I've seen uses $\phi$ and $\varphi$ but that is truly the worst idea
 
I concur
Just call it $\psi$, either of them
 
Hm
Trying to think if there's another $\psi$ that could collide with those
Deciding on notation ain't easy
There's only so many letters
 
Acuriousmind, I am trying to investigate about a small question in quantum mechanics. However given how in the past experienced told me I often present poorly and people have trouble figuring out what I want to do, I decided to first check whether my aim is sensible first before proceeding:
 
@Slereah If you want to avoid notation collision entirely, the safest bet is to use subscripts.
e.g. $\phi_\text{ch}$ vs. $\phi_\text{bun}$
 
8:55 AM
Aim: So for this question, I want to investigate how the effective repulsion between two electrons are affected by the relative angle of their spin.
 
@ACuriousMind Safe but fairly inelegant
 
I don't think subscripts are inelegant. They're annoying to type, though
 
It is all the math people's fault, really
How many greek letters do they even use, typically
Almost nobody uses $\kappa$
Or Ϙ
 
I've seen $\kappa$
$\kappa$-symmetry of the Green-Schwarz action, for one
 
Everyone wants to use $\phi$ for everything
But who weeps for the omicron
 
8:59 AM
@Slereah $\omicron,o$
Not a good idea, it looks exactly like the standard 'o'
 
I basically never see $\eta$ outside of relativity
 
Background: We knew that a fermion wavefunction is antisymmetric. This means electrons obey pauli exclusion principle. A consequence of this is that the probability of finding two electrons of the same spin at the same position is 0 but there is nonzero probability of finding electrons of opposite spin at the same position. In the context of chemistry this means effectively this contributes an exchanging interaction between electrons in the molecular hamiltonian.
 
@Slereah Dirichlet functions, for one
 
$ζ$ is pretty rare, too
 
$\zeta$-functions! Also, occasionally a complex number
 
9:00 AM
I said rare, not non-existent :p
A lot of greek letters seem to have one big application and that's about it
 
Since electron spin states can be a superposition of spin up and spin down. I want to understand how the magnitude of this exchange interaction changes with the relative angle of the spins of the two electrons, given two electrons at some fixed distance r apart
 
While others have to be everything else
$\phi$ and $\sigma$ and $\rho$ have to do all the work
 
user228700
@JohnR: Top of the morning! (:-P)
 
@Kaumudi.H Hmm, you're in a suspiciously good mood :-)
 
@Slereah Well, they're reasonably easy to draw by hand, right? Seeing how many people butcher the $\zeta$ it's good it's not used more often
 
9:02 AM
true
 
@Secret There is no such thing as "relative angle of the spins of the two electrons".
There is also no such thing as the "probability of finding two electrons at the same position".
 
Well there is, though it's (almost) zero
well, depending on which theory you use
 
user228700
@JohnRennie :-) Not really. I've slept for 8 hours in total in the past 2 days and the exam didn't go as well as I'd hoped.
 
Free non-relativistic electrons that would be defined
 
@Slereah No, what's zero is the probability density at that point.
We cannot meaningfully talk about the probability to find quantum particles at points
 
9:04 AM
@Kaumudi.H Oh well, at least the exam is over. Now normal life can resume for a while at least.
How long do you have before it all starts again?
 
Ok sorry, perhaps I mean the probability density at some volume element
 
user228700
But what I found is that I was able to do even the tricky questions! I just didn't have enough time/rough space :'-(
 
user228700
So the hope is to practice enough to increase my speed until the BIG one in May.
 
I wonder how the JEE compares to the Tripos @JohnRennie?
 
user228700
Until then though, I do have many exams.
 
9:07 AM
It's very hard to judge exactly how well or badly you've done in an exam. While it's tempting to beat yourself up about it the main thing is to put it behind you and draw a deep calming breath!
 
@skillpatrol ...how would you compare a test to a full-blown course?
 
@ACuriousMind Uh, I don't quite understand that. We can have electron spin states like $\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}(\lvert 0\rangle+\lvert 1\rangle)$ and $\lvert 1\rangle$. Since electron states are rays in hilbert space, and that we can plot these states on the bloch sphere, why is the notion of angle substended by the two rays not a well defined notion?
 
@skillpatrol Do you mean the Cambridge entrance exam?
 
If so, the JEE is harder than the Cambridge entrance exam I sat in 1978.
 
9:08 AM
@Secret The notion of angle between the two point on the sphere is a well-defined notion. But the vector on the Bloch sphere is not the spin vector.
 
At least, I think it was 1978.
 
Wow!
 
Don't read too much into that. In the UK in the 70s only a small minority went to university at all.
So it was far less competitive than the JEE is.
 
At most one component of the spin vector is ever without uncertainty due to the commutation relations and the unvertainty principle. You should not think of "spin of an electron" as being a well-defined vector beyond being able to say in which direction it is currently definite.
 
Right right.
 
9:10 AM
The Cambridge entrance didn't need to be that hard.
I don't think students are any brighter or duller now than they were in 1978, and I don't think there is any difference between students in the UK and India. The difference is in how hard the Indian students have to work for the exam, and I'm not sure that's a good thing.
 
I too am doubtful whether it's a good thing.
 
In 1978 going to Cambridge was an amazing adventure. I feel that the way the Indian system works turns it into a drudge.
 
Me three.
 
But I guess as long as there are too few places for the students who want them an extremely hard exam is the only solution.
 
@JohnRennie You could also do a lottery :P
 
9:14 AM
@Kaumudi.H: what's the plan now? Is it straight back to work? When is the next exam?
@ACuriousMind some would argue exams are already a bit of a lottery :-) There's certainly an element of luck in getting the right questions.
 
@JohnRennie Sure, so why not drop all the months of eventually pointless stress for the students and do a lottery from the start!
 
Better still, fund the educational system properly!
 
I don't think getting crushed by interesting, but primarily ad-hoc super-hard technical problems is the point of education: but since most of the students want to get in engineering, JEE is invading the standard education system too.
 
@JohnRennie I'm trying to be realistic here ;)
;| ? ;( ?
Not sure which mouth curvature appropriately conveys my feelings...
 
Of course, none of this is the primary reason. Students want to JEE because engineering offers more money. Capitalism is to blame!
 
9:18 AM
Ah, there we go again
2 days ago, by AccidentalFourierTransform
seize the means of production!
 
@ACuriousMind Hmm, so that means there isn't a continuum of cases between parallel spins (e.g. both spin up, and the component under consideration is the z component) and antiparallel spins (one spin up and one spin down), that is, there is no such thing as "one electron is spin up and the other electron is spin left (superposition of up and down by equal amounts)"?
 
Marxism-Leninism forever
 
@Secret Oh, there is such a thing. But that doesn't mean that the notion of "angle between spins" is well-defined. When you say "spin up", you mean that you have an eigenstate of the z-spin component, and "spin left" means that you have an eigenstate of the y-spin component.
You can't really talk about the "angle" between the spins of a spin-up and spin-left state, because the "spin vector" is never definite in all components.
 
Hmm I see. In that case I am a bit lost at how to understand the exchange interaction of two electrons beyond the parallel spin and antiparallel spin cases because I thought there is a continuum of cases that connect between the parallel spin to the antiparallel spin cases
 
@Secret I did not say there is not a continuum of cases.
I said that the idea of an "angle between spins" is not well-defined.
 
9:26 AM
Good morning folks
@JohnRennie Well, but I did it in C :P
So it still counts
@SirCumference @JohnRennie @0celouvsky @Slereah Why C?
 
@ACuriousMind yeah, but since "angles between" the z and y eigenstates of spins are not well defiend due to the uncertainty in the two other components of the "spin vector", I don't know what is the parameter that describes this continuum
 
It's just a shame you're not allowed to split the code up into different files. Putting the board and GFX structs in their own file would make the code very elegant.
 
@Secret ...you know what the coordinates on the Bloch sphere are.
 
user228700
Oops, I'm sorry about the timeout; lunch needed to be had immediately.
 
@JohnRennie I know, but the prof is lazy and probably just has a script that will compile all the projects so he can reject the non-compiling ones
 
9:29 AM
You could even use the "angle". My entire point was that that's not an "angle between spins". Stop always inferring more into what I say than I actually do.
 
@Kaumudi.H mm, lunch. Three hours to go for me.
 
@JohnRennie Now, to the first challenge of the day, implementing history
Now, dmckee gave me a nice idea the other day
 
Easy, add a clone method to your class ... err ... struct :-)
 
user228700
@BalarkaSen No man, not all of us.
 
@Kaumudi Clearly I didn't mean all of them. Majority, of course.
 
user228700
9:31 AM
@JohnRennie Long way to go, then :-(
 
Instead of having one variable for the board and then an array of size UNDO_DEPTH for the history we could have just one array of size UNDO_DEPTH+1 where [0] is always the current board
 
user228700
I didn't have much in the morning so I've had a whole lot for lunch just now; Rice, a bag of potato chips and two nutella sandwiches :-P
 
@BernardoMeurer I'm not sure I'm convinced that's a great step forward ...
 
user228700
@BalarkaSen Right. Indeed, capitalism is to blame.
 
@JohnRennie Hmm
What would you suggest? Just a separate array?
 
9:33 AM
It is. But, alas, there's no better alternative :)
At least not practically as I see it.
 
@Kaumudi.H I had beefburgers yesterday, then some hot cross buns, then some custard slices then ice cream (rum and raisin). I fancy something with chips/french fries today.
 
user228700
@JohnRennie Whoa whoa, that's a lot of stuff! :-o
 
@BernardoMeurer Yes, I'd just use a separate array. I don't see any advantage to a single array with live board in it. Either way you'll be copying the entire board each move.
 
user228700
@JohnRennie 24th April so yes, straight back...sort of :-)
 
user228700
Wokay, I have to go nap!
 
9:35 AM
Sleep well!
 
@JohnRennie Alrighty, I'll write the methods
eh, functions!
 
Ah, oo, hang on ...
 
::hangs on::
 
Use an array, but keep the live board at the end of the array. Then when you do the move/collapse you don't need intermediate storage because you use the next free board for the storage.
And the undo is then just a matter of stepping the current board index backwards.
And use the array as a ring buffer. So you're allowed infinite moves but you only keep the last UNDO_DEPTH boards.
 
Wait let me think for a moment
 
9:39 AM
Or, use a linked list, so you can keep adding the next new board onto the end of the list until you run out of memory or get bored.
 
Oh that would be nice!
I wonder how many moves one can possibly make in a 11x11 2048 game
 
That's a lot cleaner than the current move technique of copying out a row/column, doing the move, then copying the row/column back.
 
I think the linked list approach is dangerous, I don't want my game to be using too much memory
@JohnRennie True
 
too much memory? A maximum of 121 ints per board? Really? What are you running it on, an HP calculator? :-)
 
A TI calculator!
With Linux
(Not even joking)
 
9:43 AM
Or I guess if you were very functional programming oriented, you could just store the composition of move functions, and then unwind that to go to previous states?
Rather than storing the "entire state" at each point that is
 
You can always start freeing the board at the far end of the list when the number of boards gets too great
 
@JohnRennie You mean after the linked list grows past, say, 100, I remove the head?
and keep doing that with each move
 
@alarge There isn't a way to undo a move, so an undo would mean starting at the first board and replaying all the moves up to some point. You could do that but it's a pain.
 
@alarge I thought about doing that when I first tackled this problem, but it seemed like too much trouble
 
@BernardoMeurer Every n moves prune the list, where n is some number that's appropriate to the memory available. Pruning the list on every move seems excessive.
 
9:46 AM
@JohnRennie What's "prune"?
 
The verb prune means to cut back e.g. pruning plants means cutting back the branches to some desired smaller size.
 
Doing a linked list here will be so sweet, lol, I hope I get 20/20 on this project
@JohnRennie Sweet
Okay, So we have a linked list, every new move I make, I add an element to the linked list, and perform the move results there
 
Are you going to double link it, or link backwards from the live board, or something else?
 
So, here's another issue I had with the previous approach
I couldn't walk back the score
I mean, I could If I had an array for score too
 
Store the score in the struct
 
9:49 AM
It is
So wait, every element of the linked list saves the whole struct?
 
Yes
Ah OK, that's silly because it saves copies of all the function pointers.
You just want to save the .cells array.
 
Meh, is saving a copy of the function pointers all that bad? I mean they're 8 bytes each no?
And I have like 7 functions
I will later add time to the board struct too
Which I also what to undo
 
Saving the entire struct is very simple way to do it ...
 
Okay, I'm song on saving the whole struct :P
So I create a linked list
 
Fewer than 7 functions as you no longer need the get/set row functions.
 
9:56 AM
@JohnRennie I'm excited, this code is coming off nicely :)
 
So much work, for such a simple game :-)
 
@JohnRennie Well, I could've implemented things in stupid ways, used my professor's sample code, and chosen not to do any of the extra functionality :P
 
It's just a shame you can't score more than 20/20 :-)
 
To be honest I doubt I will get a 20 :P
The prof is kind of an asshat
I want to try and do this too :)
@JohnRennie Hmmm
What if
We rename our board struct to something like Game
because it's becoming that
and in it we add a struct state that keeps the boards, score, time, and whatever else I need
so then I can just link that one
 
That makes sense. The game logic and board logic should really be separate.
 
10:02 AM
Yeah, so then we have game "states", and we restore the whole state
 
But are you going to keep the get/setcell methods in the board struct?
 
The board struct will now me a game struct
And
Eh
Hmm
Maybe I move it to the state struct?
 
The game shouldn't needs to know details of how the board does the memory management, so you need to keep the cell access functions in the board struct.
The only things that move to the Game struct are the Move function (because that's game logic) and the history management.
 
Well the thing is I want to bundle the board, the score, and the time
Yep
But should board me a struct inside game?
Like i do with colors inside GFX
 
I wouldn't do it that way.
One of the points of classes is to enable code reuse.
 
10:06 AM
Fair enough
 
You might want to use your board with other types of game, and you can only do that if you keep it seperate.
 
Then I can have a gameInit() that calls boardInit
But now board also hosts time and score
 
Well, you'll be calling boardInit every time you add a new board to the list, and it will be the Game code doing that.
 
Okay, phew, more refactoring
I'll push what I have because this one will be tough
Okay
I'll start by making the new game struct
I'll rename the board struct to panel :P
 
I'd certianly use a new branch or a new project
 
10:17 AM
Oh, yeah, I'll merge the current struct branch
and make a new branch
Merged :D
Okay, I'll fix a bug on my random generator and branch off and begin
 
Anonymous
11:00 AM
@YashasSamaga @Kaumudi.H How was it =D ?
 
11:35 AM
@JohnRennie @dmckee In case you have a solution codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/159604/…
 
12:06 PM
@BernardoMeurer Well, don't use rand() for starters. If you need it fast, you'll need to use a library
The ones that come with the C++ standard (if you were developing with C++, and a 11 or later standard) are going to be slow.
 
@alarge Yeah, but that's slowness that I must live with. I'm not allowed to use anything not on stdlib or SDL
if these things were up to me I wouldn't even be doing this in C :P
 
@BernardoMeurer But for the kind of a simple game you're doing you're not going to care about slowness of RNG nor biasedness.
 
@alarge I'm worried about biasedness because my random cells are popping up with a bias
@YashasSamaga How did it go?
 
100+ in physics
100+ in chem
I got screwed in math :|
so bad
I was retaining constants while differentiating
and doing algebraic mistakes :(
that was in B Tech paper
in B Arch, I might actually get 160/160 in GMAT, 50/60 in General, 100/120 in math and 20/70 in drawing
 
I think if someone gave me a test with drawing in it the person who tried to correct it would just die
They would look in fear at my attempts and free-willingly die
 
12:16 PM
There were 3 questions in drawing
I attempted only one
used the time for math
the one I attempted asked me to copy a geometrical drawing
exact copy but two times the original size
 
If I did that I would overflow the paper
I cannot make correct space allocations in real life
 
$C_p$ and $C_v$ are specific heats at constant pressure and constant volume respectively. It is observed that:
$C_p - C_v = a$ for hydrogen gas
$C_p - C_v = b$ for nitrogen gas
The correct relation between $a$ and $b$ is:
 
Why aren't they equal?
 
Am I right?
 
12:25 PM
the answer given is a = 14b
I marked a = b
 
Dammit :P
 
Cp - Cv = R for all gases?
all ideal gases :p
hmm I think the ideal condition is not required
There was no QM/AS question :D
yayay!
oh there was!
it was a silly question
A magnetic needle of magnetic moment $6.7 \times 10^{-2} A m^2$ and moment of inertia $7.5 \times 10^-6 kg m^2$ is performing simple harmonic oscillations in a magnetic field of $0.01T$. Time taken for 10 complete oscillations is:
I got the answer to be approx 6.9
the answer given is 6.7
I approximated the root of 7.5/6.7 to 1.1 :|
which was a bad approximation
 
no calculators allowed, right?
 
nope
ok
so the correct sqrt is 1.05
I am going to fight for this one
no calculator and they gave ugly numbers
according to the number of significant digit rules, we had to retain only ne significant digit
the JEE people used two digits :P
lame reason
but I'm gona win becaz it is a legit reason :D
 
12:45 PM
why the commutation relation between momentum and position operators should be [Q,P]=ih? is it necessary for QM to be compatible with classical mechanics? If so, is there any classical limit for the anti-commutation relation for fermions?
 
@YashasSamaga Well, only when Cp and Cv are molar specific heats, right? The qn doesn't seem to say that, which is probably why you get a = 14b?
 
AH
wait wait
they are per mole by defintion
but the Q said specific heats
hmm
ok I think a = 14b is correct now
 
K. I think molar ones are written in capital $C_p, C_v$ and the standard, non-molar folks written as $c_p, c_v$. So that's an intentional confuzzlement for sure.
 
checking if you know your notations
 
Well they aren't because if Yashas typed it right they used the opposite notation :P
They're just digging a trap for you.
 
12:54 PM
I should have thought twice before answering
that Q was so stupid
 
Yah it's stupid
 
a = b, I was like "what?"
shud have searched for the hidden stuff
 
1:09 PM
@BalarkaSen Did you take the JEE?
 
Nah man
 
@ACuriousMind lol
 
I haven't even finished high school yet. I don't plan to take JEE
 
@BalarkaSen so you're not getting a job?
 
Nope. After school I'll wander aimlessly around the streets and do drugs
 
1:11 PM
@ACuriousMind I like how after 218 page of brutal analysis, he decides the reader must be reminded what a group is
 
that's the plan at least
 
I guess analysts don't give a shit about groups
 
well after 218 pages of that stuff reader would probably forget what a group is
so that's a good thing
 
@BalarkaSen it's clearly a groupoid with a single object
 
it's the 1-skeleton of an infinity, 1 groupoid with a single object
 
1:14 PM
@BalarkaSen You're still in high school?
 
last i checked
 
@BalarkaSen This is a noble pursuit
@BalarkaSen Yosida is like the best and worst at the same time
 
The material is so awesome and some of the proofs are really neat, other proofs are just plain stupid and he thinks lots of things are obvious
 
Can't stop listening to this
 
1:17 PM
@0celouvsky I don't know it
Learnt an uber-cool theorem of Thurston on foliations which used obscure analysis, by the way. Had a lot of fun figuring that out
 
what obscure analysis?
 
@0celouvsky I mean, a really basic lemma but it seemed completely irrelevant to the theorem
 
what was it?
 
If $(M,\mathcal{F})$ is codimension 1 foliation on a compact manifold s.t. there's a compact leaf $L$ with $H^1(L; \Bbb R) = 0$ then $M$ fibers over the circle.
Aka strong topological restrictions on manifolds admitting foliations with certain leaves
(This doesn't hold C^0, so gives examples of C^0 foliations which cannot be promoted to a C^1 foliation too!)
 
Yeah
Huh
@BalarkaSen and the lemma?
 
1:32 PM
@BalarkaSen That's neat
 
@0celouvsky too long to type; look it up in Candel-Conlon chapter 6.2
@Danu Pretty dope, isn't it?
 
1:46 PM
@BalarkaSen yeah that's strange
Well, not strange
Just a weird technical lemma for a topology proof
 
Yeah.
I could have explained in a few sentences if you knew what holonomy of a leaf means (do you?). Mike and I figured it out while reading this togather
Basically, it's "obvious" if you wanted real analytic foliations instead of C^1.
 

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