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4:23 PM
[Warning, what I am going to random idea about is ghostly... (nope, not the QFT ghostly)]
Let's suppose A is in a house with two rooms
In one room, A felt the air has a very dense feeling, but only A can feel it
 
@Semiclassical ugh, heat flow in an annulus now
 
A has a friend, B, who when is present in the room, A felt the air is less dense
 
these homeworks are growing exponentially in time it takes to complete
 
Now when B left the room, A felt the air is dense again.
The problem: We cannot tell experimentally whether A's feeling is due to his minds playing tricks on him or there is some ghosty presence which only felt by A, but is nevertheless scared away by B
Therefore, let's modify the scenario as follows:
Suppose you receive a machine from your friend which does one thing: It gives out flashing green light at periodic intervals
Now, you have a sensor mounted on a wheel:
The sensor will move closer to the machine until the frequency of flashing (correcting for delay) changes
and after that, it will just stop in place
So, we have an interesting system that models a notion of subjective experience:
The machine that is given to you is said to made flashes based on sensing some kind of stimulus (e.g. very low frequency sound that typical machines don't pick up because they are not designed to detect those low frequencies)
However, you have no way to check whether this is the case (As opening up the machine does not give much information and you are not good at circuits) thus you can only trust the machine is working as intended
Now, the sensor with the robotic wheel is actually made of a special material that reflect the low frequency sound waves
and therefore if it move closer to the machine, the machine flashes less frequent because the low frequency sound is less
 
I'm starting to suspect that ACM is the real cosmic entity
 
4:33 PM
However, based on just looking at this system of machine and sensor and behaviour alone, you can only conclude one thing:
 
Shog pales in comparison to ACMs omnipresence
 
@Phase why?
 
There's a machine, which flashes periodically, and with its flashing frequency depends on how far away the sensor is, nothing more
 
ACM exists eternally answering seemingly any question like a mysterious sage
uh
 
and therefore, this model suggests that since we cannot even tell what an arbitrary machine is responding to, or why it is having that kind of behaviour, what is the hope of experimentally detecting ghosts and the paranormal?
 
4:34 PM
@Secret I don't think that's..
Science is the study of nature
Paranatural / supernatural are not subsets of nature
By definition the people claim they transcend physical laws
 
I am trying to use some machine analogy to describe how hard it is in general to verify an ancedote, which is a common way to record events for purported paranormal communities or religious communities etc.
in some sense, unless you know how the machine works, you cannot understand what the machine is perceiving about the world, and hence what it is recording and responding
More generally, it is just as hard to understand the world in the eyes of a machine as in the eyes of a bee
Subjective experience, in some sense, is private, only you can perceive it and you cannot share it
 
Call me jaded but I can't really entertain that discussion in my head, my brain just screams at me that science has it's limits, and finding out whether supernatural things do or don't exist is something that no scientific model will be able to do
 
"My external sensations are not less private to my self than are my thought or my feelings. In either case my experience falls within my own circle, a circle closed on the outside; and, with all its elements alike, every sphere is opaque to the others which surround it ....In brief, regarded as an existence which appears in a soul, the world
for each is peculiar and private to that soul."
 
@JohnRennie Can you please run a distcc on one of your servers for me?
 
and same for what a machine 'sees' the world as
 
4:41 PM
That's a paragraph from the philosopher F.H. Bradley which TS Eliot quotes in his Notes for "The Waste Land"
 
@Semiclassical Have you ever experienced typos on arXiv dates?
 
Science has its limits, but it is interesting to understand how and why the limits are there. Philosophy does a good job on that
 
This paper is allegedly from 2006 but it references stuff from 2015.
 
not that come to mind
 
@BernardoMeurer My main server actually isn't any more powerful than your laptop. It uses a Xeon E3-1220.
 
4:42 PM
...huh
weird
 
see call me a philistine or a villain but I dislike the whole "philosophy" side to Physics
 
@Semiclassical it was updated in 2016, but the 2006 version doesn't make sense
it's missing like half of the stuff
 
huh
link?
 
The inability to see even a machine's private world in general has real significance in AI researches: There are discussions going on how to make their black box more understandable to humans so that we knew whether it has actually done the task properly, such as whether a neuro network have identify its targets correctly
 
4:44 PM
@Semiclassical whoa you can access the 2006 version
it's completely different
 
@JohnRennie I can't take these kernel compilation times anymore
 
he took out the pictures in the 2016 version :/
 
I am dying
Also it is literally boiling my scrotum
 
Sounds uncomfortable
 
@BernardoMeurer don't use the laptop while naked :-)
 
4:46 PM
I'm sorta amused that the bibliography (for the 2006 version, at least) includes two papers "in preparation" from the same author
 
Maybe turn off the hob
 
put a textbook between the laptop and yer crotch?
 
@JohnRennie I'm not naked, I'm in class!
 
...lol
 
But the vent is going straight into my balls
 
4:47 PM
I don't get Philosophers
 
@Phase Glad to know you're a normal human :)
 
It's like they see fresh Physics graduates claiming that they can revolutionise and model Biology etc, and decide that everything is philosophy
 
The vent is on the left side of the laptop. Where exactly are you 'nads? Have you temporarily relocated them?
 
@JohnRennie The desk thingy on the chair is to the right
 
Hm
John Rennie talking about testicles? I have a faint sense of deja vu..
 
4:49 PM
@Phase Hey, I didn't start it! :-)
 
@Phase He loves it
MY SCROTUM IS ON FIRE
 
You two get a [chat]room
 
@BernardoMeurer please delete this
 
Philosophy is not everything, but there is a philosophy for nearly everything
 
It's triggering
 
4:51 PM
as in, given a concept A, you can make a philosophy of A out of it
 
@0celo7 Quit being a ween
 
That's offensive
@Semiclassical yeah so the "Ryan read this paper" task has morphed into "Ryan read all of these papers"
I guess L1-L5 on the 2016 version is background
and it took him 10 years to write part II, doesn't sound good
 
@0celo7 what's your stance on _ Putin _
 
Great leader, strong man, hated for no reason by wimps
 
He got given a puppy
but on the flipside
He rules a completely torn apart country and afaik isnt doing much to help
 
4:54 PM
with regards to philosophy, my standpoint is largely that while it's certainly possible to think you're doing physics without philosophy---well, you're wrong
 
So you'd argue that deriving anything incorporates philosophy? Why?
 
because derivations are a product of reason and argumentation
 
@Phase Putin pulled Russia back from the edge of total anarchy when he first came to power. Why you say he isn't doing much to help escapes me.
 
and while they may arise from empirical observation, it's not just a matter of "I see data and I think of theories"
 
It seems a bit odd though to label all reasoning as philosophy
 
4:57 PM
@JohnRennie Confirmed fascist
 
rather, our mind has to organize all of that information into some kind of a whole and draw conclusions about that
 
@BernardoMeurer because I respect Putin?
 
@Phase then you've got too narrow a view of both reasoning and philosophy.
 
@JohnRennie Don't expect my banter to have some deep meaning
 
4:58 PM
Idk. It seems like saying that counting apples is maths
 
tbh attempting to find meaning in pretty much anything I say will lead most to insanity
 
counting apples, no. going from observations of apples on the ground to a concept of apples in general as a thing that can be counted
that is philosophy.
 
@JohnRennie I dunno, I have heard of massive protests throughout Russia against multiple monetary corruptions done by the Russian government of Putin
I wouldn't say I know much about the issue though
 
When Putin took over the whole country had become institutionally corrupt and was being run by the oligarchs for their own benefit.
 
The relevant keyword is "He is not Dimon to you"
 
5:00 PM
What is mathematics without formal languages?
 
Mathematics being philosophy doesn't appear to be a one sided debate though
 
I'm not saying Russia is perfect, but Putin has done a lot to stabilise it under very difficult conditions.
 
Or rather, what is mathematics without logic?
 
I think the larger point is that, even if you conclude that Putin is an autocrat, it's not a matter of "oh Russia was so great and democratic, and then Putin came around"
 
@JohnRennie I am not defending the pre-Putin Russia, merely saying he can be criticized
 
@BalarkaSen so can Theresa May and Donald Trump
 
Er, sure, your point?
 
5:03 PM
it's easy to forget how bad Russia fared post-USSR
 
Thatcher should come back and rule the world
 
and how much of that was a result of capitalism coming in and taking over as much as it could
 
@BalarkaSen my point is that if you're seeking perfection in a leader you'll have a long quest and a fruitless one
 
side note
 
Yeltsin's Russia was hella corrupt
 
5:04 PM
These are some polarised autofills
 
I don't care for a perfect leader. I don't subscribe to any leader.
I am not saying Putin has not done anything to improve Russia, just to clarify
 
I feel like I've accidentally uncanned some worms
 
Russia per se doesn't sit in my mind much
US-Russia relations, by contrast...
 
@Semiclassical Truly
 
but I think I'd have been worried about that under Hillary as well
 
5:09 PM
anyhoo
It's currently 6PM and I haven't slept in well over 24 hours so
goodnight
 
the typesetting there makes me mad
 
what is scal
is it $R$
 
@Semiclassical I have to read my advisor's thesis. Why can't anything be simple!
@Slereah it is $\mathrm{tr}\,\mathrm{tr}\,\mathrm{Riem}$
 
@0celo7 Have you looked at Gromov's typesetting/notation on his new diffgeo thing
in arxiv
 
5:13 PM
@Semiclassical this was all a ploy to get me to read his thesis
@BalarkaSen He has two new ones. I read the scalar curvature one and was triggered.
Also I don't understand metric geometry so it was too hard
 
Ah yes the scalar curvature thing is the one I had in mind
 
"In [L5] we employed this hitherto unexpected degree of control over the elliptic analy- sis on H \ ΣH to establish the broader framework of a scal > 0-heredity with surgery."
ew
I hate math
what should I do with my life
 
vary naice
much notation
 
"torical"
is that what they call toroidal
 
@BalarkaSen the whole format of the paper is strange
I guess Gromov is just insane (forgive me @ACuriousMind)
 
5:29 PM
I mean that's probably certified truth
 
@BalarkaSen what's a Gromov boundary?
 
So say you have a geodesic metric space
Take a point $p$
Look at all the geodesic rays starting off from $p$
 
@BalarkaSen what's that
 
Is that a way to say "a sphere"
 
it means metric distance between any two points on the space is the infimum of the lengths of curves joining them
just the right generalization of riemannian metric vs the metric induced from it
the geodesics are the paths whose length is exactly the metric distance between it's endpoints
 
5:45 PM
Do you mean a complete manifold
 
I don't think so
there need not be a geodesic joining any two points in a geodesic metric space
 
Hmm, ok
 
All I am saying is, you have $(X, d)$ a metric space, and for any $x, y \in X$, $d(x, y) = \text{inf}\, \ell(\gamma)$
infimum running over all paths $\gamma$ w/ $\gamma(0) = x$ and $\gamma(1) = y$
 
Yes
Where should I read about this
 
I have no idea
I picked up stuff overhearing people talk about it
<--- hangs out with geometric group theorists
 
5:51 PM
How does a high schooler hang out with geometric group theorists?
 
by having no life
 
@BalarkaSen That seems like a sweet life to me
 
you clearly have not hung out with geometric group theorists
just think: the originator of the branch is the man himself, Gromov
 
neeeeeerd
 
@BalarkaSen are they not analysts?
@Slereah you buy lasers for fun. You're the worst kind of nerd
 
(nerd)
 
vzn
6:16 PM
1
Q: partial differential equation coupled system

vznhave been wrestling with this n-d coupled PDE for awhile and finding it very difficult to come up with an answer, but am wondering if there is some elusive "trick". have looked through various books with standard forms and havent seen it yet. the context is something of a long story but the eqn i...

 
 
1 hour later…
7:29 PM
I have to decide between taking an astronomy class or analysis ;-;
 
both of those words are pretty wide
What are the programs
 
Obviously analysis ;)
What books in each
 
@SirCumference is that even a question
@bolbteppa you don't like analysis
 
What's the basis of $SO(3,1)$?
 
what does that even mean
 
7:37 PM
Oh wait is it just the generators of rotations
 
that's the basis of $\mathfrak{so}(n)$
 
I mean "rotation" in the large
Boosts as hyperbolic rotations
 
Euler angle matrices?
 
Just trying to figure out how to write the spin connection in gauge form
$$\Sigma_\alpha^{ij}\omega^\alpha_\mu$$
Something like that
I guess it would be like $$\nabla_\mu V^\nu = \partial_\mu V^\nu + ({\Sigma^\nu_{\sigma}})_\alpha \omega_\mu V^\sigma$$
Something like that I guess
oops
Too late to edit
$$\nabla_\mu V^\nu = \partial_\mu V^\nu + ({\Sigma^\nu_{\sigma}})_\alpha \omega^\alpha_\mu V^\sigma$$
There we go
I think that should be the proper form
Does that sound correct
 
7:43 PM
this is done in Weinberg's GR book.
 
Hm
 
If i take a weightless box (negligible mass) made up of ideal mirrors (reflecting light almost perfectly) and i fill this box with photons bouncing off of the mirrors, such that about the same amount of photons bounce of each side per second. When i accelerate this box and let it rest after, do the photons inside the box keep the same energy as before the acceleration within the box's rest frame?
 
How much is it?
It's 22 bucks
I can totally get it
Wait
Which one is it
 
it's like 200
 
"Gravitation and cosmology" or "Cosmology"
 
7:45 PM
gravitation and cosmo
cosmopolitan physics
 
There's a bunch for cheap
 
hardcover?
 
wow the price went down
 
yeah
 
7:46 PM
it used to be way more
 
might be a good time to get it
 
def
I already have a hardcover
 
It is ordered
 
@Slereah I got some money for my birthday and could get MTW
 
what's feneral relativity?
 
7:48 PM
not sure I should
 
Study of ferns?
Maybe it's one of those old timey script
ſeneral relativity
 
@0celo7 What do ya mean?
 
@SirCumference you're asking about math vs. observational physics
 
yeah...?
 
clearly math
it's not a question
 
7:55 PM
but astronomy is so damn interesting ;-;
but so is math...
 
maybe once you take analysis and become a mathematician you will thank me
 
I'll be sure to do that if that day comes
 
i want to become a carpenter
 
@0celo7 I mean, doesn't astronomy fascinate you at all?
 
no
we've been over this
 
7:57 PM
@Slereah Huh. In the UK, it's £220 for the hardcover, or £16.50 for the paperback :o
 
@0celo7 IK, but it just seems abstract to me that someone can dislike astronomy. It's like disliking mango
 
Anonymous
@SirCumference Why not both? :)
 
@Blue There's only one class for each of them, and they overlap ;-;
Unless I can duplicate myself, I'll have to choose
 
@SirCumference I had mango the other day and it was awful. I'm back in the mango hating category.
 
Anonymous
7:59 PM
Uh, that's bad. Study analysis on your own. Astro is more interesting :P
 
@0celo7 are you real
 
Yeah. Fuck complex analysis.
 

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