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5:00 PM
The hour is up, so that's the end of the official chat session. As always, feel free to carry on chatting as long as Secret has the energy.
 
I have kept a drema log for 5 years. My dream log have been an importsat part of y life, as it lead me to google things that I otehrwise never will and thus learnign a lot of different things formr number theory to a new manga\
---
Please inform me if I miss a single question, cause I have tried my best to ensure they are all answered
 
vzn
fyi a semifamous historical case of the role of dreams in science/ chemistry, kekules dream relating to benzene molecule structure en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Kekul%C3%A9#The_ouroboros_dream
 
do you see the future? :)
 
@vzn Well, mine is kekule on steroids, comming up with a compound approximate one per month. Msot are impossibe though
@ConstantineBlack Like all people, I cannot see the future. Whether the future is determiend, we are not sure
 
I think the interesting aspect of roaming is that the naive way we might calculate the dissociation is wrong. The system does not simply follow the trajectory of minimum energy.
 
5:02 PM
Well, I meant in your dreams, de ja vu stuff.
 
I wish ACM can now see that I can be coherent, it just take a HUGE effort
@JohnRennie Exactly.However for some reactions, traditional trnsiton state works well. Also roaming technically still involve a saddle point. IT jsut mean we need to esxpand our scoep of transiton state theory
 
vzn
thx to secret & everyone for participating. here is a link on the chat sessions. we are always looking for new speakers/ volunteers. will hang around a bit to listen to any feedback re this session/ others. also thx to DZ/JR. meta.physics.stackexchange.com/questions/7783/…
 
The dissociation mechanism is a lot more complicated than that. For example it involves the transfer of energy between vibrational normal modes due to non-linear couplings.
 
Do we know what is the reason behind this? @JohnRennie @Secret
 
It's more like a tunneling mechanism, though it isn't tunneling in the quantum mechanical sense.
 
5:04 PM
@Secret what would your first action be if you were the god(what ever god is) from tomorrow morning...
 
@ConstantineBlack The only dream that I can call a deja fu dream is a drema in primary school where I argue with a friend in library, the next day the almost same sequenceo f event happened and then breaking the 4th wall I told them I dreamt about it and it is liek lol
 
@ConstantineBlack have a read through this PDF that nicely summarises the physics involved.
 
@ACuriousMind are you around?
I need halp
 
This is the condensed phase roaming paper I talked abotu in the AMA: nature.com/nchem/journal/v7/n7/abs/nchem.2278.html
 
vzn
was wondering do "roaming radical reactions" happen in biology/ biological systems?
 
5:07 PM
It is a dangoerous question. cause I have a very nihilsitic dark side.
There are two possibel outcomes. Like Sasaki in Haruhi Suzumaya light novels, I am pretty satisfied and thus will do nothing, or my dark side can take over and eveyrthing will become nothingness in a blink
 
@Secret of the system not following the trajectory of least energy and why dissociation is as complex as John Rennie says.

@JohnRennie Thank you. I will certainly have a look.
 
@vzn Nothing on that is being reported. It is not even fully convinced it occur in condesned phase
 
@Secret well thank goodness you weren't GOD :D
 
vzn
@Secret so is it unlikely in biology due to high energy requirements or...?
 
@Secret Maybe even God can't achieve nothingness. He is the ultimate QFTciann.
 
5:09 PM
@vzn I won't judge jsut yet, roaming in condensed phase is still young with very few exmaples. Perhaps they are actually ubiquitious. Msot objectiion will say that in condensed phase, they are too many solvent molecules that will force the radicals to recombin before they start to roam around
 
@BernardMeurer Hi Bernard. Are you in Lisbon yet?
 
@JohnRennie besides roaming, there are many non minumum enegry pathway mechanisms, some don't even involve a transition state
I am not sure how to dig a paper for you on non MEP mchanisms, because the review paper that summarise it well is paywalled
For me, whenever there are papers that cannot be accessed by my uni subscription, I just scihub it
 
@BernardMeurer Wasn't here, am going again; try again in ~5 hours
 
@ACuriousMind I am pretty sure what happened just a few hours ago is a lot more coherent than my usual chats. I am still improving on the communcation
 
5:25 PM
@JohnRennie I'm in London waiting for my connection flight to Lisbon :)
 
I suppose the physics chat is one way of passing the time when you're hanging around in a departure lounge :-)
 
Grrr, ACM is still ignoring me
 
@ACuriousMind My QM prof just wrote a ket as a Taylor series in the eigenvalue. I don't really buy that
Is it legitimate to do that?
 
Well, it does not matter, because the ignore function actually has a weak point...
 
@Secret you honesty sound insane.
 
5:35 PM
I am pretty sure Slereah's absence might have something to do with my chat activities
This had happened many times before whenever someone give up trying to communicate with me
 
Btw 0celo7 what exactly does your prof wrote for that ket?
 
@JohnRennie I am bored to death
And I'm stuck in Shankar
 
Is the chat session over?
 
it is
 
Can you whisper to someone in chat?
 
user218912
5:39 PM
@BernardMeurer what page are you on?
 
@SpaceOtter I don't think there is such function
 
Well done @secret might be the first time ever I listened in a chemistry lesson
 
@3075 my kindle is tucked away. I just got to the something something theorem, at the very beginning
 
user218912
gram-schmidt?
 
That's the one
But I got stuck on the A* notation
Don't get what the * does
 
user218912
5:41 PM
complex conjugate?
 
user218912
do you mean you don't know why $\langle V | W \rangle = \sum_i v_i^* w_i$?
 
Do you @3075 ?
 
user218912
yes.
 
Proof?
 
user218912
5:43 PM
dude
 
user218912
that's easy
 
user218912
and it's in the book so there's no point of telling you
 
I don't think it's easy, linear algebra is hard.
 
user218912
you're just taking this way too seriously
 
user218912
well it's easy in dirac notation
 
user218912
5:47 PM
@0celo7 you're talking about advanced linear algebra right?
 
No, linear algebra.
I don't understand it.
 
0celo, have you read the pdf I refer to you?
that taught you linear algebra from the beginning
 
@Martin thanks, I've been taught them at the first year of high-school. also thank you about the explanation and the link referring to the "rigor". actually I knew this, I only didn't know what it is called in English. At least I've expected any mathematical proof to be rigorous to some extent (considering the level of math we use and what discuss). I googled it and knew sth more; thank you again for your effort to make it clearer to me.
 
Hi, everybody.
 
Hi welcome
 
5:57 PM
@DanielSank check hangouts you scum
You got some voodoo shit going on
 
hey @slereah, how's you data mining going?
 
6:20 PM
I ain't datamining
 
well I was told you are, nvm then
 
I'd hardly think that getting you the contact of a beautiful woman should earn me your insults. Ingrate!
 
@Slereah I thought you died
 
@ACuriousMind Fits me nicely, as it is less pointy
 
I did
I am a ghost
A popov ghost
I will haunt ur gauge
 
6:28 PM
I still need slereah's help on that time travel thing, but I am pretty sure as soon I finished chanting it, he will become a neutrino again
speaking of that, is a neutrino ghost a well defined object?
 
No
Because ghosts aren't particles
They just represent the removal of gauge degrees of freedom
 
ok seemed I have not done enough QFT
 
@2physics: You're welcome. And you are right to think that "any mathematical proof [is] rigorous to some extent". And the level of rigour (from very hand-wavy to computer checkable) is exactly what distinguishes the physicist from the mathematical physicist. The mathematical physicist wants the rigour of the mathematical community, the physicist wants the rigour necessary to get 99% of the results correct without too much hassle.
 
Even though slereah and ACM have exchanged place of becoming a neutrino, I found that my time travel model have nontrivial tpology thus I should learn some topology , get then formalised before returning to that question
 
@Martin well why doesn't a mathematical physicist doubt that maybe there are some more axioms that we need to provide a better proof, therefore we have to assume some principles which later in future may be considered as axioms?
 
6:43 PM
an axiom is taken to be true to build the mathematical model, it does not need to be proved
 
ok I edited it
 
@Slereah did you ever get O'Neil
 
I did not
 
I need to print and bind a 489 page arXiv paper
how do I do that?
 
and another question: as a mathematical physicist, now that you know the relativity theory, can you propose an approach (or if you believe there exist, one) according mathematical physics (using those days accepted axioms) which would lead to the results of this theory?
 
6:49 PM
Do it at your university
Most universities have printers that can do double sided
And have machines to perforate big stacks
The mathematical framework of relativity is that space is invariant under transformations from the Lorentz group
It's not too hard to show that it means that the speed of light is invariant between inertial frames
 
@0celo7 : take it to a print shop on a memory stick and pay big bucks.
 
O wow, that's amazing, there are EXACTLY 5 unresponded pings directed to ACM, thus my theory holds
 
@Slereah yes but, it results in a relative Time and Distance
which is exactly opposed to accepted axioms of that time
 
I am currently listening to this because I need something that is a mix of cyber and disco
Please do not say I am doing drugs because I am on medicine and cannot do drugs
 
@Slereah which one?
 
6:58 PM
@Slereah : if you've got the money it isn't a problem.
 
@Slereah You have to justify it
 
@0celo7 thank you for looking up the ballentine stuff :) I agree that his approach is certainly peculiar; I've just found other parts of his book rather helpful, so I was interested in what you said
 
My justification is that I don't want to buy the book
 
The best kind of justification
 
you can use the pdf version. cant you?
 
7:00 PM
@2physics PDF is for suckers.
 
@0celo7 sometimes you need to pretend what suckers do for a while, to avoid being one of them.
 
The only time I am a sucker is when I found out someone ignored me and then I exploded
otherwise I am normal if a bit weird
 
@secret wow. that music is intense
Not for me
 
Well, at least it is better than some heavy metal played from bad speakers (you need good speakers to hear good heavy metal)
Ignorance has a lot to do with my nihilistic half of my personality, because it is the loudest of the silence
 
@Secret have you ever seen any of David Linch movies?
 
7:05 PM
What do you listen to trance for? does house not get you into a zone? @secret
 
@2physics I don't know that guy, thus I don't know if I have watched his movies
@SpaceOtter what do you mean by house not get into a zone?
 
@0celo7 : what's the book?
 
@secret Why do you listen to trance? just cos you like it or for "zoning" I don't know how I'd describe that in coherent english without using the slang from around here.
 
@JohnDuffield Ricci Flow and the Poincare Conjecture
 
@SpaceOtter Well I am not really a trance person, and I don't listen it because of zoning
For that type, my brain already ignored most of the distroted melody and I basically only focused on the disco sounding bits
 
7:09 PM
he's one of my favorite directors. has some interesting movies in surrealism genre.
 
There are less intense trance, there are many tupes of trance msuics
 
I'm more an IRA songs guy
 
@0celo7 : CDN$97 is a lot
......
 
this one you can recognise some of the impression form some scifi shooting games
it has no distortions
@Slereah I also like music of this type, it reminds of a sunny barn yard
 
7:13 PM
@2physics: Mathematical physicists do think that the current theory is probably not enough. But they are mostly working on making complete what is already there (which is more than enough to work with). Some, like Alain Connes, work on new theories which have additional axioms, but usually the maths becomes extremely heavy very fast.
 
NB: I can actually ignore a user without ever pressing the ignore button
 
@0celo7 : it's $56.95 plus $3.99 shipping here.
 
@2physics My mind freely associate random ideas I have leartn throughotu my life, one reason why my posts look really disconnected from one to the next
 
I think it's not just about movies
 
7:17 PM
@Secret there is an ignore function?
 
For David linch, I think I am only familar with his Dune
@Sanya Yes, click the user avatar, a window pops up, and then you can click "ignore this user (everywhere)
 
@Secret so mean ;_;
 
This is useful in dealing with trolls, through
and every chat room tend to get one every now and then
 
What predictions has string theory made?
 
not a string theory expert, ask someone else e.g. ACM when he gets on again
Sanya: Ignoring is mean, but it is necessary for dealing with people who just trolls.
 
7:24 PM
@Secret you're completely right - at least for an unmoderated chat
 
@Martin alright.. so I think it would be great if a theoretical physicist would try to take some of mathematical physics considerations beside his/her approaches
 
@ACuriousMind I need some Sobolev space wisdom
 
What predictions has string theory made? @ACuriousMind
Just trying to get his attention^
 
@Slereah Reminds of 80s classic movies, nice
 
7:26 PM
I mean as much as possible, so that it wouldn't prevent him from going beyond accepted axioms and using imagination..
 
Don't worry, the only thing so far I knew that really pisses ACM off is reading a bunch of seemly disconnected messages and continously making vague statements. I gather this information between the chat logs of 0celo7 and ACM
and otehr h barers
 
It's 12:00 AM here and I'm getting sleepy slowly
 
It's 5:30 am and I really should be going to sleep
 
why don't you go?
 
Too emotionally disturbed by the ignore discovery and its implication for my quanutm mechanics future
(It is one reason I listened to one psy tracne after another)
 
7:32 PM
lol
 
really?!
 
and there's an evene greater reason
 
@Secret : don't be disturbed by it, Secret. Just appreciate that there are some unkind people around, that's all.
 
I am trying to figure out how to piece my research proposal together and I knew if I sleep now before that setence is finsihed, I am going to slack off tomorrow
 
I don't think he's unkind; and I also don't think he ignores anybody. maybe he just prefer not to respond and we have to respect others choices
 
7:34 PM
@JohnDuffield I have a hyperactive response to ignorance, because it is basically the same as someone yelling at you on the ear. It is the nosiest of all the sound
 
@Secret : don't. Because there's a lot of it about.
 
@2physics ACM is not unkind, and I understood that. I am glad that the questions I ask him can be found via other means or experimentations (it just take a long er time), unlike some of the people I met in the past which frstrates me a lot because they are the only source of the answer
 
well the world must be a noisy place then lol
 
It is, apathy is one of the major things in our society
There are papers about its effects in social science researches
 
I'm sure a curious mind, doesn't care that "who" ask the questions, he just looks at what is the question. so, considering the name of his account, don't worry about that.
;)
go to bed sleep and rest it's late now for thinking about those issues
 
8:07 PM
Is there anyone on Physics.SE that knows anything about string theory?
@ACuriousMind ignore my last question for you.
 
I'm not fond of string theory
I don't like purely perturbative theories
 
Why would decreasing the amount of gas in a constant-volume gas bulb (submerged in some liquid) allow one to achieve more accurate results of the temperature of the liquid?
Less gas means faster particles to make up for the decrease in mass (pressure must increase with temperature in this case by definition)
is it because pressure is easier to calculate with fewer particles?
 
@Obliv achieve more accurate results by which method
 
8:24 PM
calculating the pressure exerted by the gas bulb submerged. $T_{liquid} = KP_{bulb}$ if volume is constant
$K$ is some constant
 
yeah, but that constant depends on the moles of gas in the bulb
in any case, if you want to use the ideal gas law, dilute gases often follow that better than non-diluted ones if I remember correctly
so that might be a reason
 
Oh if it's the ideal gas law then the full equation is $PV = nRT$ right?
 
yep
I'm not sure that is the case in whatever you are reading/looking at
 
I'll check
 
@Obliv Proof?
 
8:30 PM
Okay so it's saying $T_3 = KP_3$ is the triple point of water using this method. We decide to use $273.15K$ for $T_3$ then to eliminate the constant we find the ratio of the pressures. $T = T_3(\frac{P}{P_3})$ then take the limit as the gas goes to $0$. $T = 273.15(\lim_{gas\to 0}\frac{P}{P_3})$ and it says this gets the ideal gas temperature
 
vzn
@Martin any interest in doing a (chat) speaker session? our next slot 4wk from now is open yours for the taking =D
 
@0celo7 up yours
 
@Obliv we'll have to wait for someone to whom this makes more sense than to me
 
@Obliv So you don't know the proof? It's quite neat.
 
@0celo7 no do you?
also do you know why the temperature gets more accurate if less gas is in the bulb?
I should mention that the motivation for using this method of reducing the gas in the bulb is because different gases will get slightly different results
 
8:35 PM
@Obliv Yeah, I wrote out the proof in detail when I took AP Chem.
I actually found a proof using SR, dunno how correct it is though.
 
I think I learned it in AP physics :O never cared for the proof then
 
@Obliv I didn't know AP physics did multivariable calc.
 
Right I forgot that when you provide a proof it's using the highest level of physics/math you know
 
Or partition functions, etc.
 
I didn't know AP chem did either
 
8:37 PM
@Obliv I wrote the proof while sitting in the class, I wasn't paying attention.
 
of course you weren't. and I didn't mean I learned the proof back then. I was simply given it and problems to do ;D
 
It should be in my LaTeX documents
 
oh well I don't need to know the proof or the answer to my question I was just curious. gonna go back to studying
 
21 pages lol
 
what is actually wrong with you
 
8:41 PM
what is wrong with ME
 
Ah, I derived the Boltzmann distribution too
 
why did I click on that link -_-
 
This is a neat find!
I'd forgotten all about that
@Sanya what's wrong with the link?
 
why not link the actual papers instead of the cover page
 
@0celo7 it doesn't contain any useful information that could not easily have been turned into text form
 
8:42 PM
@Obliv it's on my hard drive, I'd have to upload it
where do you want me to upload it
 
dropbox?
doesn't matter to me
 
Don't have one
I should get one
 
:( why not
yea do that
 
is it free?
 
yes but i'm not sure how much storage they give you for free
 
8:43 PM
~2gb
 
working on it
This is pretty old, so don't judge
@Sanya what?
 
how long did it take you to write this?
 
Dunno. Hour or two?
 
HaHa
right
 
It was two years ago, I have no idea
 
8:50 PM
@vzn: I guess it'd be interesting, but unfortunately, I'm on a workshop of my group from 3rd to 6th of October, which'd be exactly the date you propose.
 
@0celo7 did you give this to your teacher?
 
@Obliv Yes.
The date on it is wrong
I wrote it earlier
but I must have edited it last during my senior year for some reason
 
how much earlier? This seemed to be in the summer
oh okay
 
I wrote it Junior year for sure
 
LOL
 
8:52 PM
What?
 
After reading the first paragraph a normal person would think this is just an ordinary high school physics project. The notation though
the symbol $\partial$ in front of a topological set denotes the boundary.$d\sum$denotes the oriented infini tesimal surface element.
 
Hmm, maybe I didn't write this as a Junior
I didn't know what a topological set was in 2014
But you can't fake a date like that
 
I still don't know what a topological set is.
 
I still don't know what a topological is
 
@BalarkaSen A subset of a topological space, clearly.
 
8:55 PM
I can guess. But that's nonstandard terminology :)
 
I thought you were supposed to be some kind of math whiz
@BalarkaSen Sure, I wouldn't say that now.
 
@0celo7 I am pretty sure I am not one!
 
@0celo7 the img
 
@BalarkaSen Now I see that. You don't even know what a topology is
@Sanya what about it?
 
I do, as a matter of fact.
 
8:59 PM
@0celo7 the thing that you pinged me for was about it
 
what?
 
...
nevermind
 
vzn
@Martin thx for reply/ interest. how about 2 wks later tues Oct18?
 
9:20 PM
What the heck is heat capacity of an object? It's defined as the proportionality constant b/t the heat $Q$ that the objects gains/loses and the corresponding temperature change $\Delta T$
so $Q = C\Delta T$
shouldn't $Q = \Delta T$ dangit let me read further
did you write any other papers in your years of high school @0celo7 also do you have them in your hd to upload?
 
@Obliv it's actual strictly speaking a derivative of internal energy or enthalpy with respect to temperature; if it is constant you have $Q = c * \Delta T$, but that is a special case, in general it's $Q = \int c dT$
:32150359 the partial derivative of internal energy/enthalpy w.r.t. T
 
oh you should have used a lowercase $t$. I see now
thought it was w.r.t where $T$ was temperature
 
that is exactly what I mean
and why I used uppercase
\partial U / \partial T
or H instead of U for enthalpy instead of internal energy
 
OH I see. Suppose there was a fixed temperature difference between an object and its environment (so as the temperature of the object increases/decreases to match that of the environment) this would be a constant change in internal energy $Q$ right? @sanya
 
thermodynamics tells you nothing about time dependences
but I think it sounds reasonable
sorry, gotta leave
 
9:33 PM
okay thanks
 
@Obliv there are some dumb ones
 
9:49 PM
like what? @0celo7 probably dumb to you
would make a challenging read for me (if not impossible if theres geometry involved)
 
 
1 hour later…
11:17 PM
@Obliv I will put a pdf on dropbox that contains solutions to all sorts of book exercises
A blog, basically.
But better than the blog I actually had
because that thing sucked
I do type up stuff occasionally
 
@Secret Look, I'm sorry that me ignoring you caused you so much distress. Unlike with the people I permanently ignore, it's not that is dislike you. But conversations with you feel very...draining to me. I need to invest far more energy into understanding what you're saying and responding to it than with others, and I just needed a break for a few days. You may well think I'm a dick for just stopping talking to you, and I'd understand that.
 
@Obliv For instance, I proved the set on which $f,g:X\to Y$, with $Y$ Hausdorff are equal, is closed.
Simple proof to be sure
but it should be written down somewhere and not just left as an exercise
@ACuriousMind Are you willing to lend Sobolev space wisdom?
 
@0celo7 If I can
What is the issue?
 
@ACuriousMind Wonderful, do you recall the definition of the energy functional of a map $f:\Omega\subset\Bbb R^m\to\Bbb R$, with $\Omega$ open?
 
Uh, $\int_\Omega \lvert \nabla f \rvert^2$?
(modulo prefactors :P)
 
11:25 PM
Yeah.
Modulo 1/2.
So, clearly $f\in H^{1,2}(\Omega)$, right?
 
Yes, for that thing to be well-defined, it has to be
 
Ok, so suppose we want to do the standard variational procedure $\mathrm d_t E(f+t\eta)|_{t=0}$. What are the conditions I need on $\eta$ for that derivative to actually be defined?
 
I think the functional derivative uses perturbations from the same space, i.e. $\eta\in H^{1,2}(\Omega)$.
You could probably settle for $C^\infty(\Omega)$, since that's dense.
 
Do you mean $C_0^\infty(\Omega)$?
$C^\infty(\Omega)$ is certainly not dense, there's unbounded integrals for days in that set.
 
Ah, yes, $C^\infty \cap H^{1,2}$ or $C^\infty_c$.
(I don't like the 0 subscript for compact supportedness :P)
 
11:31 PM
Ok, compact support I can live with.
Next question...I have this weird statement $H_c^{k,p}(\Omega)\subset C^m(\bar\Omega)$ for $0\le m\le k-n/p$. I don't really understand the proof, but how is that subset defined? These are function spaces over different sets!
 
Let me dig out my functional analysis notes
 
Are they saying one can extend a function in the first to a function in the second?
 
@0celo7 The l.h.s. is compactly supported, so it can be trivially extended by 0 to $\bar{\Omega}$.
 
Ok, is that all they're doing?
 
I think so, because in my notes this embedding is stated without the closure of $\Omega$ on the r.h.s.
 
11:37 PM
Ok.
@ACuriousMind Last question: are you aware of the theorem which says a compact Riem. mfld. contains a minimizing geodesic in each homotopy class of curves?
 
@0celo7 Only because you mentioned it before
 
@ACuriousMind Wrong answer, it's in Milnor :P
But anyway
 
(don't tell me it's in Milnor :P)
 
There are proofs of it without Morse theory.
One is via heat flow.
@ACuriousMind Oh, look at the time. I will be back in a bit.
The question is not about geodesics, I promise :P
 
@Bass I feel we might have talked past each other in the comments here. It's one thing to be confused about how dinosaurs sustained their own weight, it's another to claim professionals (archeologists) are still wondering about that like the question does.
 
11:46 PM
Hi, everybody.
 
Hello, Dr Sank
::makes a point of not bowing::
 
::Throws in dungeon for not bowing::
 
Awwww, damn!
 
Get #rekt son
 
I can't just catch a break, can I?
 
11:55 PM
@ACuriousMind Nope.
 
Hey @HDE226868 you haven't said much here lately, what's up?
@DanielSank ::rattles sadly with chains::
 
@ACuriousMind College, as of two and a half weeks ago! And vacation before that.
This is my second week of classes.
 
@HDE226868 Nice! Ah, the thrill and confusion of the first semester, there's nothing quite like it
 
@ACuriousMind hhahahaha
You are hereby released from the dungeon and appointed court jester.
 
@ACuriousMind Indeed. I've finally confirmed my hypothesis that I'm a physics person, not a philosophy person. Fortunately, first semester is pass-fail here, so that's cool.
 
11:59 PM
@DanielSank Yay! ::does cartwheel::
 

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