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6:04 PM
@Secret There is a fourth: art
 
@peterh hi & welcome
 
@2physics Hi :-)
 
how are you today
 
@2physics It was a hard day, with few sleep
 
@peterh what do you do?
I mean, hard because of work or study and school?
 
6:12 PM
@2physics Work.
 
@peterh I see.. that's how life goes on
 
@0celo7 How can you be sure about that?
 
@yuggib Because you know jack shit about geometry.
 
I was not talking about me
 
What is up with that?
@yuggib You're the only one who knows about PDEs in here.
 
6:21 PM
@2physics It is... hard
 
Maybe, or maybe there is someone else
 
@2physics The goal of the life is not to enjoy it, but to reach our goals.
@2physics It is the hard truth
 
@yuggib maybe JD. But doubtful.
 
@peterh yup hard truth, but even dreaming about approaching and achieving the goals is kinda enjoying
 
@2physics Yeah! :-)
 
6:25 PM
@0celo7 whats JD??
 
@0celo7 : I have the background necessary to understand black hole formation.
@2physics : moi.
 
@2physics I hope, your country will have once nuclear weapons and also rockets. The so-named western civilization is going to a very bad direction; it seems without an external "threat" they can't get back
 
John Duffield .. I got it sorry
 
@2physics And don't worry that you can't pay on the net. Where it is possible, usually it only means that the whole country pays a lot to big u$ companies
 
@peterh lol but I don't think they're looking for nuc weapons here. and I also don't like it them having such a dangerous thing. nobody
 
6:31 PM
@JohnDuffield I thought so.
 
@peterh maybe, but actually when you can't pay internationally on the internet, it means you also cant get money online :D . besides, here's third world, I don't expect much anymore
 
@2physics No, no, they aren't so dangerous. Our big brothers somehow doesn't fear from them, they have the second most on the World. It is tragic to see, how the whole EU is a whore of the U.S. political elite.
 
Do you understand chapter 7 of Hawking & Ellis, @JohnDuffield
 
@0celo7 : I don't know. I haven't got a copy.
 
@peterh cool :D are you talking about russia ? . yup I agree, and it's not only about EU, kinda global :D
 
6:36 PM
@2physics Russia has the most. They need them, because they don't have drones. Big Brother == U.S.
 
@peterh btw, you know we don't call your country, Hungary , we call it Majarestan, I don't know why it's different from English
 
@2physics As the communism collapsed, we all loved the west, we were happy. But now what we can see, that the western world seems more and more like the communism.
 
@peterh really? I thought US has the most.. I didn't know, interesting
 
@2physics Possible, in the Yeltsin-era they dismantled a lot, mainly because they were hungry.
 
@peterh also we call poland: Lahestan. Germany: Alman.
Georgia: Gorjestan
@peterh then why do some areas, like in Ukraine some people are tended to Russia?
 
6:51 PM
@JohnDuffield why not?
 
@SirCumference : it forms from the inside out in finite proper time. Remember that Oppenheimer and Snyder found in 1939 that gravitational collapse in vacuum produces a "frozen star". Then use a hailstone for an analogy. You're a water molecule, you alight upon the surface, but you can't pass through it in finite time. However you can be surrounded and buried by other water molecules. So the surface can pass through you in finite time.
 
Lol
 
@0celo7 : you haven't thought through the consequences of the Einstein quote.
 
@peterh you know, although the government is closed tho China and Russia's govs, but people doesn't trust in russia's gov and also you may find it funny, you said we can find a way to deal with china or russia for our online payments. I have to say a general believe has formed here among the people that whatever you find the name of china on it to buy, is of low quality and doesn't worth it to pay for.
 
@JohnDuffield sure
 
7:13 PM
Hi guys! I need a suggestion. I am making the following plots. The first it's ok. I want now to apply an extremely important cut, imposing $x\geq 0 and y\geq 0$. I was thinking to "cut" the remaining area with diagonal lines like in the figure on the right (I made it with photoshop but I will do it with Mathematica) but I am not sure it's good… what do you think it's the best way (style) to stress the fact I am applying a cut?
 
@0celo7 : nor has Ellis. Hence "In a recent note Ellis criticizes varying speed of light theories on the grounds of a number of foundational issues". And the important point to note whilst considering the Cauchy problem in general relativity is this: light can't go slower than stopped.
 
7:33 PM
@JohnDuffield your constant peddling of the crackpot theories of Einstein is tiring
@ACuriousMind are you around
 
7:46 PM
The crackpot theories of Einstein? Now I've heard it all.
 
@JohnDuffield Your theories sound crackpot but apparently they agree with Einstein. I'm left to conclude he had crackpot theories.
The validity of an argument is independent of the pedigree of the person making the argument.
 
@0celo7 : I don't have theories. They're Einstein's theories. And they aren't crackpot. If they sound crackpot to you, then it's probably because some other theories or interpretations that you've learned about are crackpot instead. For example you may have learned that light doesn't get out of a black hole because space is falling inwards. That's crackpot. A gravitational field alters the motion of light and matter through space. it doesn't make space fall down.
 
Of course space is falling inwards, that's why it drags stuff in
And it drags light with it
 
No it isn't. We don't live in some Chicken-Little world where the sky is falling in.
 
GR moves and curves spacetime, something you don't understand
 
7:55 PM
@2physics If you can buy from China or Russia, then you can buy anything.
 
I have many references. See Thorne, Hawking, Ellis, Penrose, Carroll
 
I understand it. Because I've read the Einstein digital papers.
 
It's not a crackpot theory, unlike what you're saying
Einstein was a crackpot!
They never gave him a Nobel prize for GR, because he was wrong about it
The Nobel committee understood this but apparently you don't...
I have books and all you have are some 90 year old papers
 
@0celo7 : ah, Kip Thorne, the man who believes in time travel. And Roger Penrose, the man who will tell you about the parallel antiverse. And Sean Carroll, the man who will tell you about the evil-twin universe where time runs backwards. Ho hum.
 
They have mathematics to back up their claims, what do you have? The insane ramblings of a dead man.
 
8:01 PM
I've got more than that.
 
@JohnDuffield So I like the complex Penrose-diagrams... and it is so sad, that somehow tricky GR things excite the VtC reflexes of our most active reviewers.
 
@peterh : I dislike even the simplest Penrose diagram. Note that the precursors to the Penrose diagrams were Kruskal–Szekeres diagrams. I think they're misleading, because when your optical clock is stopped, you can't make it start ticking by putting a stopped observer in front of it. He doesn't see it ticking normally in his frame. He's stopped, and so is the clock. He doesn't see anything.
OK I'm off. Bye.
 
8:16 PM
okay
my first quantum course as a PhD student is using Sakurai: amazon.com/gp/product/0805382917
 
@GPhys @_@
Phd student of what?
 
physics
 
Not exactly grad level?
 
what is?
 
Sakurai is the standard grad level book @yuggib
 
8:25 PM
Meh I can't seem to be able to prove my stuff. I should get some physics done instead.
 
Prove E=mc2 @BalarkaSen
 
8:46 PM
...since a proton is an extended body with spin 1/2, does this mean it can be considered partly like an extended rigid body?
 
user54412
it's extended? is that so clear?
 
what does extended mean in QM
 
Of course it is. I mean, not rigid.
 
user54412
what does that mean?
 
that's what I just asked @ChrisWhite
 
8:54 PM
@ChrisWhite I mean to say charge and mass are spread out over the order of a femtometer
expectation values, if you must, surely there are plenty of senses in which that statement is true
 
@NeuroFuzzy did you say you got Chinese Rudin
 
@ChrisWhite is it extended?... yes and no. best answer :D:D
 
@0celo7 Huh? Nope. My copy of landau's QM has something on the cover that might be chinese (printed in singapore)
 
@NeuroFuzzy Chinese Griffiths?
 
@0celo7 I got chinese Hörmander and Varadarajan
 
9:01 PM
International editions of, like, everything, yeah
but I don't think it has chinese on it
maybe it does somewhere on the cover
 
I mean the international edition, yes
 
The four Hormander chinese books are cheaper than one of the standard ones
 
My Kobayashi-Nomzu is Indian
$250 savings
My Petersen is Dutch for some reason
 
@0celo7 and I am not sure you qualify to say which is the standard graduate QM book
 
@yuggib do you have Rudin FA
 
9:03 PM
;-P
 
@yuggib In the US, Sakurai is standard.
 
I think so, yes
 
I am qualified to say that.
 
@0celo7 based on what?
 
@yuggib My PhD?
 
9:07 PM
@0celo7 I covered sakurai topics in my third year of undergrad studies
And not just me, everyone in my course
 
@yuggib I covered Sakurai in my second year of undergrad studies.
We've been over this before.
 
Yeah, you just want to be annoying
 
No, you claimed Sakurai is not graduate level. I said it's the standard graduate level book.
I'm correct.
The discussion is about the US, not Italy.
 
Who said so?
 
@GPhys is American.
 
9:10 PM
When I say graduate level, I am not referring to the US
 
You were saying it at him.
So really you're trying to be annoying.
 
I did not know GPhys nationality
And in my scale, sakurai is not grad level
Who cares about US
 
Everyone but you.
Must be lonely.
 
@yuggib where did you finish your under-grad studies?
 
@2physics in italy
 
9:18 PM
@yuggib So do you have Rudin FA?
 
@yuggib what did you study for your QM in your undergrad studies?
 
Yes in pdf
 
@yuggib if someone asks you a random question about metric topology and you don't know, where do you look
 
@2physics more than one book actually; I studied on Landau, Messiah and Cohen-Tannoudji
@0celo7 bourbaki probably
 
Which one?
 
9:27 PM
@0celo7 general topology, don't know by heart which chapter
 
do they make wild claims and leave the proof to the reader?
 
it's the list of undergrad, and grad studies courses and references in some universities over here*, but it's not standard , depends on teachers actually: phys.sharif.edu/…
 
@0celo7 of course not, it's bourbaki ;-)
 
@yuggib surely they don't prove absolutely everything?
 
@0celo7 up to a set of measure zero, they prove everything
 
9:40 PM
@yuggib how is one supposed to come up with a function continuous at only one point without looking it up? The standard example is pretty tricky
 
You need probably a function defined on a domain with an isolated point
?
 
Isolated point?
The standard example is x*dirichlet function
It's continuous at x=0 and nowhere else.
I think x^2*dirichlet is a function differentiable at only one point
But I won't bet on that.
 
The tricky part seems to find a nowhere continuous function
Then the rest is reasonably intuitive
 
10:03 PM
A space is Hausdorff iff the diagonal is closed?
That's a new one
Oh well the diagonal is homeomorphic to the original space, so that's fine
 
10:19 PM
@0celo7 Function with what domain?
 
@BalarkaSen $f:\Bbb R\to\Bbb R$
I know an example
 
I do too.
 
but only because my prof told me in analysis
 
The point is to modify the function which takes value $1$ at rational and $0$ everywhere else and dampen it near $0$.
This is a standard technique.
 
standard in what field
I said I understand that construction already
 
10:21 PM
Calculus.
 
We're going to get into a calculus debate again
 
Oh, but you don't consider Ted's book as calculus. Talk to Ted about that.
 
@0celo7 There a very strange tradition to not teach this fact to people, and then define "separated" in algebraic geometry by a very similar property without saying it's a generalization of Hausdorff
 
@ACuriousMind Uh, what?
 
@0celo7 I'm just saying that "Hausdorff <=> closed diagonal" shouldn't be as obscure as it is.
 
it's not obscure?
It's on my topology problem set
 
Good for you, then!
 
10:48 PM
otoh, it has the worst problem on it
a problem I haven't been able to solve since I knew you @ACuriousMind
been struggling with it for almost 2 years now
@ACuriousMind I have no earthly idea how to show that the interior and boundary of a set are disjoint
 
Uh, $\partial U = \bar{U} - U^\circ$?
 
no
 
$\partial U=\bar U\cap \overline{X-U}$
 
That's a ridiculous definition, but you only need to show the equivalence to $\bar{U}-U^\circ$.
 
10:53 PM
@ACuriousMind I CAN'T
It's so annoying
 
Of course, you'll need certain characterizations of "closure" for that, and knowing your insistence to not use what you have not proved, I'm not going down that rabbit hole with you.
 
no!
Closure is union of set with limit points
Point is in closure iff any open neighborhood intersects the set
what other characterization do you need
I want to show $A^\circ=X-\overline{X-A}$
@ACuriousMind Is there a more useful definition of interior besides "union of all open sets contained in $A$"?
aha
@ACuriousMind I think I have it.
Yes, got it.
@ACuriousMind Call me Poincare.
 
11:22 PM
@0celo7 Defining the interior ot be the union of all open sets inside the set, and the closure to be all closed sets containing the set, this isn't hard to show. If you've been struggling with this for two years you never really tried it.
It's a classic "show carefully both sides are subsets of each other"
 
11:33 PM
@ACuriousMind I did try it.
It's a PhD level proof, but I finally got it.
 
For the things you claim to be PhD level, I should have received one twice over :P
 
11:47 PM
@ACuriousMind I genuinely think it's a hard proof
STAHP
DELETE THAT
 
Why?
 
I was going to write up my proof and show you but now you'll never believe me
To your probable amazement, I'm very proud of this proof...
 
Aw, you always manage to amaze me :)
 
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