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7:01 PM
What kind of physics
 
7:11 PM
@0celo7 Algebraic topology
 
that's not physics you filthy mathematicians
 
Do you even topological insulator?
Or instanton
 
You use addition a lot in physics, but addition isn't physics!
 
26
Q: Applications of Algebraic Topology to physics

Sean TilsonI have always wondered about applications of Algebraic Topology to Physics, seeing as am I studying algebraic topology and physics is cool and pretty. My initial thoughts would be that since most invariants and constructions in algebraic topology can not tell the difference between a line and a p...

 
that's like saying that coffee is math
 
7:17 PM
@Slereah If that's your point of view then you stand to miss out on most fun things ;)
I'd say that the classification of Hamiltonians (as per one of the answers there) is pretty solidly part of physics
 
Well, let's discuss it then
First question
What is algebraic topology
 
The study of topological properties using algebraic methods
 
Any simple example
 
Sure, classification of 2-dimensional compact surfaces up to homeomorphism
 
Is this gonna be
Atiyah Singer
 
7:21 PM
They're all "spheres with handles" and are just classified by the number of holes
No, it's from the 19th century
 
I think you mean "compact surfaces" then :p
 
Yeah
 
Well I know you can classify them by their Euler characteristics
But how do you obtain it via algebraic methods
 
@Danu is that even a real life thing
off topic: I need to become an expert on solid state physics
 
@0celo7 Yes, it's been experimentally established and stuff
 
7:24 PM
@Slereah AS is a vast generalization of that
 
@Slereah I'm going to find out! :D
 
@Slereah fundamental group?
I know HE uses algebraic topology at one point
Something with the Euler characteristic
 
@Danu No idea what that is supposed to mean
 
See this Edinburgh topology and geometry website? The blue torus is meant to be an electron. See stuff like this and this and this. Hu talked to Atiyah about that at ABB50/25. Atiyah is at Edinburgh.
 
Topological structure of the electron?
 
7:36 PM
Well, it's a point
pretty simple topology
 
@Slereah The Euler characteristic is an algebraic thing - the alternating sum of the ranks of the homology groups.
 
Ew, that article is not TeXed.
 
Yeah. Dirac's belt is not irrelevant.
 
What about the belt?
 
@ACuriousMind I cry everytiem
 
7:38 PM
@ACuriousMind You mean cohomology ;)
I probably just made him facepalm
 
That the heuristic defintion of the characteristic as "corners-edges+faces" for a polygon gives this is very easy to see in the cellular and simplicial approaches to homology.
 
And I'm about to be schooled
 
@0celo7 No, I'm quite certain this is homology.
 
@ACuriousMind I guess I need to read more algebraic topology then!
 
@ACuriousMind yeah I have no clue
 
7:39 PM
And read this question about Atiyah and spinors.
 
I don't get it.
Is the electron literally a Dirac belt?
 
@Danu : he's not a crackpot. Can we have a moderator here?
 
@0celo7 I really hope you're kidding :P
@JohnDuffield I am a moderator.
 
@Danu uh
 
gets some popcorn
 
7:40 PM
I want to hear Dr. Duffield's opinion here.
@Danu no duh
he knows that
 
@Danu : then practice what you preach instead of being abusive towards a bona-fide scientist.
 
I think he's saying you're abusing your mod powers
 
@Slereah Yes!
 
@Slereah Me too
I have Hatcher on my desk
 
Don't we all
 
7:40 PM
oh god
a real mod has been called
 
Please try to keep the discourse civil :-)
 
Won't the real mod please stand up
 
I'm probably going to get banned again
 
@0celo7 - It's only a matter of time
 
nice bias
 
7:43 PM
And see this TQFT website? See the blue trefoils at the top? (They're always blue). Well, start at the bottom left and go round clockwise calling out the crossing-over directions: up down up. Now where have we heard that before?
 
@JohnDuffield Of course tori and knots appear in TQFTs, but that has nothing to do with spinors.
In fact, most TQFTs typically don't have particles (because their spaces of states are finite-dimensional).
 
@Richard I hate cats
 
And see this video of an electron. What colour is it? Any guesses?
 
@0celo7 ::looks closely at profile picture::
 
7:47 PM
@JohnDuffield Do you really think the fact that some websites/videos show blue pictures has anything to do with whether or not they're talking about electrons? It seems quite irrelevant to me
 
I always draw my electron wavefunctions red. Checkmate.
 
@Danu : it isn't irrelevant. Here, see this DNA torus with the binding energy. What colour is it?
 
@JohnDuffield Okay :D Blue = electron, got it
 
Is the positron anti-blue?
Or do we choose the complementary color?
 
7:49 PM
I think a major advance in color theory can be announced.
 
@Danu : even your name is blue. I rest my case.
 
Picasso's electron period can no longer be denied!
 
@ACuriousMind funny story there
@JohnDuffield What are you talking about?
 
@0celo7 The story of how you are separated from your cat is funny?
 
Blue, blue, always blue! LOL.
 
7:52 PM
This is legendary
 
My sarcasmometer is broken. I can't tell who, if anyone, is being serious here.
 
@ACuriousMind no
that's actually quite tragic
thanks for bringing it up
 
@Danu Mine only went up to eleven :/
@0celo7 What's the "funny story there", then?
 
7:54 PM
@ACuriousMind he's fat
 
@ACuriousMind I hope you were referencing that
 
he once knocked over a chair by running down the stairs and then flying onto it
 
@Danu Yes :)
 
@ACuriousMind :D
 
@0celo7 I don't get what that has to do with your profile picture or you hating cats
But it's funny :D
 
user54412
7:56 PM
@JohnRennie Re: that MO question. Note that mathematicians who don't do physics define "local" w/ regard to neighboring points, whereas in GR "local" means "can be done in the tangent space of 1 point (and then extended to nearby tangent spaces with epsilon error due to continuity)." I think one way of explaining all this to the mathematicians is that there is an interchange of limits going on in the background.
 
That "GR local" $\neq$ "math local" has always bugged me
Another reason not to do GR :P
 
@ChrisWhite Very insightful.
One of the many communication problems :D
 
user54412
@JohnRennie (con.) I'm pretty sure you can't physically measure the Riemann tensor or its derivatives without an extended region of spacetime -- just as you allude to with the bit about parallel transport. You can then take limits of this result as the region shrinks to a point. But since each and every region contained some points inside the horizon and some points outside, it's no surprise that you can construct a quantity that "detects" the horizon.
 
@ChrisWhite You should really post this as an answer over there.
 
is @JohnDuffield going to explain what electrons have to do with the Dirac belt
are they like little Dirac belts
made out of...Dirac belt string?
what about the other leptons then
are they also little belts
 
user54412
8:02 PM
@Danu I'll try to build up the courage.
 
aww little cute little belt party
 
@ChrisWhite I'd never dare post something on MO
(not even a question)
 
"why are you people doing sheaf cohomology when there are real problems in the world"
I'd probably post that.
 
@0celo7 : go and read about it. Do your own research.
 
user54412
@HDE226868 I don't see why not. Except be careful -- M-sigma applies to the bulge of spirals, not the whole galaxy. The bulge is essentially a small elliptical at the center (so FJ applies). While the spiral part is dynamically cold (everything moving orderly in the same direction), the bulge is dynamically warm ("pressure" support against gravity, rather than rotational support).
 
user54412
8:07 PM
So basically BH mass can be connected to bulge L.
 
@0celo7 Because real problems suck!
(to solve)
 
@0celo7: and read this too. Meanwhile I'm off for a nightcap and a bit of telly.
 
@JohnDuffield Note that that link doesn't mention "electron"
(or even Clifford algebra)
 
The Dirac belt isn't even a physics thing
 
@Danu : what link?
 
8:08 PM
It's a pedagogical tool
 
(or spinor)
@JohnDuffield Follow the "reply arrow"
 
spinnor
twisttor
or is it twisstor
 
tenssor
 
lol typo
 
vecctor
 
8:09 PM
twittsor
 
lol that sounds like something I could do
 
there's also sinors and pinors
But those are not commonly used
 
sinors?
 
Physicists do love terrible puns
Sinors are pinors on space orientable but time non-orientable manifolds
 
no
stop starring things that make me look stupid
4
 
user54412
8:12 PM
@Danu Part of me wonders if the whole firewall debate isn't just a miscommunication.
 
@ChrisWhite That's just between physicists though. And no, I'm pretty sure it's not. I talked to a bunch of people who are involved in it, and they don't seem to think so.
I do think that it may be based on a bunch of imprecise/hand-wavey arguments that might turn out to be false
 
@Danu If the people involved thought it was a miscommunication, then there would be no "it" to be involved in, right?
So that's telling us nothing
 
A lot of physics debates on big things tend to be a bit hand wavey
 
@ACuriousMind It does, because they understand what the others are arguing for as well.
 
Because if you wanted to do them properly, you'd have to solve the theory
And that shit is way hard
 
8:15 PM
They see that there are arguments for the opposite side, i.e. it's not like both sides are just being like "?!?!?! what are you on about"
hence, not based on miscommunication
 
I don't see how that excludes the case where each side mistakenly thinks the other one's standpoint is different from theirs when it is only because of incommensurable assumptions/terminology. (I'm not saying it is the case in this specific debate, but two sides thinking they have a rational debate is not sufficient to exclude miscommunication)
 
Quantum gravity is basically like Hogwart
 
Hogwarts*
 
You put on the magic hat, it tells you your theory
Then you have to hate the other camps
 
damnit muh spelling
 
8:19 PM
String theory is Slytherin
 
@ACuriousMind It goes a pretty long way though, you'll have to agree
And even if this is the case, that still implies that there is a valid debate: It's just inside both sides' own heads instead of between them ;)
 
@Danu : Concerning These go to 11: (i) Check the upload date for the Spinal tap YouTube video. (ii) Check the max possible rating for the Spinal tap movie at IMDB :)
2
 
@Qmechanic You're amazing!
 
that is not Spinal Tap's IMDB page
 
@Slereah : Corrected.
 
8:27 PM
Qmechanic the legend
 
he's a damn robot!
 
hey @Qmechanic, what does this say
Just wondering
 
@Slereah hahaha
 
he won't answer that
either because he's too busy or he's a robot
we'll never know
 
time for a Voig Kampf test
 
8:33 PM
@JohnDuffield I honestly have no clue what you're trying to do there.
Are you saying you can turn a torus into a sphere?
That's impossible, the genus is a topological invariant.
 
user54412
Some people are trying to breathe life back into this request:
 
user54412
39
Q: Prevent questions on Hot List from being upvoted by casual visitors (only rep is from association bonus)

DVKI have experienced this on a couple of sites (and I'm not the only one) : You look through the question list. You see a pretty bad (or at least not-so-good) question heavily upvoted. Or even worse, a very poor answer to a good question - upvoted to stratosphere. Or even worse, a very poor/inc...

 
@0celo7 Wow, that answer is just word salad.
@ChrisWhite Very good, but I guess most people are not happy about measures that may reduce their ability to get easy rep ;)
 
rep schmep
who cares
it's all worthless internet points
 
That is how you know if you are winning at the internet
 
8:40 PM
the only thing that really matter are chat stars
chat stars the the only interesting thing
if people like JD and user12622 can get rep, it's not a great measure
OTOH, chat stars are very exclusive
 
No they're not
 
Well JD gets chat stars too
possibly more than mosts
 
My highest-starred post has 8 stars
Dec 13 '14 at 15:24, by Danu
Oh god this is hilarious
Pretty proud of that one
 
I got 4 on " You're never done learnin! "
I suppose it was inspirational
 
Also this
May 19 at 19:40, by Danu
I love putting people in little suffocating boxes
 
8:44 PM
how do you find the highest starred one
 
I have 175 different starred messages.
 
I did it by lookin'
 
I have a 7 star
 
A physical measurement process called eyeballing
 
8:45 PM
4chan
404'd
 
I represent about 4% of all starred messages in this chat, ever :D
 
@Danu I'm not dumb
I can find that
how do you see how many you have starred
screw you astronomer
 
It's 50 per page
 
also I won't delete that because stars are fun
 
you only have to count the ones on the last page
 
8:46 PM
I have 3 full pages
161
I wonder who has the most
 
Someone make a query!
 
Where is that CS supernova guy when you need him
 
I really need to get new glasses
I am always zooming in on websites like an old man
giant texts on my browser
 
lol
how old are you
28
 
there's way too many fucking mesons
 
8:53 PM
you're too old to save
random
 
It is not
 
there's way to many fucking interpretations
 
is there a limit to how many one can have
 
probably
I mean you can arbitrarily mix states and all
 
8:55 PM
is a meson $q\bar q$
 
But at its core there aren't that many possibilities
yes
 
how many $q$ are there, six
so that makes 36 basic mesons
so there can be more if we assume QM is correct
of course, combinations of states are ridiculous
so there's at most 36
 
Not exactly, no
You have to use like
Young tableaux
Similarly to how you compose spins
Except not exactly because it's not a perfect symmetry
For instance, there's 4 spin 0 particles made of up and down quarks
$\pi^+, \pi^-, \pi^0$ and $\rho$
The pions correspond to a "vector" and rho to a "scalar"
Same way two electrons will have a spin 1 and spin 0 possibility
 
9:22 PM
>implying I don't know the 8fold path
Smh this is what I get for being an idiot 95% of the time
I'm saying that that's all BS because QM is wrong
 
Are you talking about buddhism or particle physics?
 
Uh, the one that is wrong??
 
Are you talking about buddhism or particle physics?
 
@ACuriousMind Errr... you mean geometry? ;)
 
8-fold path is group theory, it's not QM :p
 
@Danu There's a third eightfold way?
 
It's way, not path
@ACuriousMind Yes, and it's better than the other ones!
The Klein quartic!
 
The beauty of Klein's quartic curve. That sounds too much like classical algebraic geometry for my tastes
 
Path $\cong$ way
 
The original paper
 
9:30 PM
Yes, this looks like classical algebraic geometry.
 
::readinglist ++::
 
Sigh...out of close votes, and 64 flags pending.
KyleKanos and Jim are slacking again!
(So much that I can't even ping them)
 
sigh I'll do my part for the good ol' close votes
I'm pretty tired of doing it though :P
 
Ftw you're such a disappointment that ACM-senpai does not even list you amongst the slackers anymore
 
@0celo7 Hahaha
No, I'm not in the 10k+ queues
That's the reason, I presume
 
9:37 PM
@0celo7 "Ftw" = For the win?? Also, you never reviewed with great regularity, at least not that I noticed.
 
(I've only got 40 things pending, anyways!)
I do review quite a lot, though :)
I'm at 1.4k VTC reviews
 
@Danu With "pending" I mean the red number
I can only "see" 2 close votes, I've acted on all the others.
 
@ACuriousMind I ain't got no red number, as I'm not 10k+
 
Uh that was supposed to be tfw
 
9:39 PM
Already down to 55. Reviewing works!
 
I used to review
I got 3k rep because you complained about not enough people VTCing
 
49...whoa there, there were a lot of flags only missing one or two votes it seems.
 
Yeah... And I am quite strict :P
 
@yuggib is also helping ;)
 
@ACuriousMind It was a while, I have to admit... ;-)
 
9:41 PM
I guess 2 people does the trick
Oh, I'm #10 on the all-time VTC review list
Pretty good
 
Okay, now imagine how good this would work if we only had 3-4 regular reviewers more. We're not far from an efficient queue, but we're not there.
 
@ACuriousMind if you just reminded me
This is your fault
 
@ACuriousMind Well, we do have a recently "promoted" 3k'er ;)
 
Who
 
...but I feel that one may not be the most helpful one in this aspect of running the site
 
9:43 PM
@Danu ::sigh::
 
I don't get it
 
your old pal
 
Oh, Brian Meisenheimer?
He did like physics
 
possibly
 
You neither understand this nor can you remember that there was gin in 1984. Tsk.
 
9:46 PM
The subtleties in life come with age ;)
 
said the elder of the youngsters
 
@yuggib How would you know? ;)
In Germany, it is quite normal for 60+ year olds to take grad courses
 
wat
In which Germany do you live?
 
@Danu But not to move from Netherlands to Germany in order to do that...
 
@ACuriousMind At LMU, we have 2-3 60+ year olds in most courses.
Especially in physics.
 
9:50 PM
@Danu Retired people get bored
 
I've seen one old person in some of my courses in the four years (oh god, so long!) I've been here.
I would definitely not say it is "quite normal"
It's "not unheard of" :P
 
It's quite normal here.
 
Probably because Munich is so big you have a higher number of old people taking courses because there simply are more old people near enough to consider attending
 
@ACuriousMind I don't think so. Amsterdam is comparable and there it is unheard of.
(except in the humanities, which are a bit "softer" I presume, and more interesting to most people anyways)
 
I really hope that once the theory of everything is made, we will call it the Dirac-Maxwell-Einstein-Schroedinger-Gell-Man-Weinberg-Klein-Gordon-Higgs equation
Just throw in as many names as possible
 

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