Axtell

Downgoat

00:23

Hopefully will be able to add language descriptions later

Downgoat

01:09

@anyone up for helping write language descriptions for VSL?

I need like 10 word summaries of every language

05AB1E
Actually
APL (Dyalog)
APL (ngn)
Bash
Befunge-98
Brainf***
C
Cheddar
Clean
C++
C#
Emojicode
F#
Funky
Gaia
Husk
Java
Java 9
Jelly
JavaScript
Haskell
Perl 5
Perl 6
Python 2
Python 3
Pyke
Pyth
GNU Sed
Seriously
PowerShell
Mathematica
Stacked
Triangularity
Add++
LOLCODE
Element
Pain-Flak
Tf
MATLAB
Japt
Jolf
MATL
R
Ruby

crap don't mean VSL I mean Axtel

Pavel

01:25

@Downgoat Can't you just take the Wikipedia summaries

ASCII-only

@Downgoat Jelly: The penultimate golfing language

MATL: The production-level golfing language
Python 2: Golfier than Python 3
Perl 5: The non-golflang golflang
Perl 6: The Unicode language
LOLCODE: HAI KTHXBYE

Downgoat

@Pavel most esolangs don't have wikipedia summaries though

Pavel

@Downgoat But they do tend to have Esolangs.org articles

Downgoat

eh not really

Pavel

Or Github READMEs

Downgoat

01:34

those usually aren't great summaries gnerally

Pavel

@Downgoat Please use correct icon for Perl 6

ASCII-only

@Downgoat how to even summarize in 10 words

@Downgoat why does search not care about letter order

Pavel

Because search algorithms are hard

ASCII-only

@Pavel wouldn't it be harder to implement an order-insensitive one though...

@Downgoat > spaces ()

Pavel

But that doesn't work for gaots failn to speel lnaguag namse corecetly

ASCII-only

01:39

but "eelmeat" also matches "element".

Pavel

Also takes into account autocorrect BS. Even better.

ASCII-only

cool: osable matches 05ab1e

Downgoat

@Pavel ew no it looks like a 80s butterfly on LSD

ASCII-only

@Downgoat pls add lolcode logo

Downgoat

@ASCII-only it does but it's pretty lenient so people like me can find languages quickly

Pavel

01:42

@Downgoat It looks fine

FFS

ASCII-only

@Downgoat define "it does"

i can type it backwards and it'll still match

Pavel

At least don't use the Perl 5 logo

ASCII-only

^

Downgoat

@ASCII-only yeah

like so I can type ajsvascrtpr and i'll still get javascript

ASCII-only

:| apple doesn't match apl

Pavel

01:43

Also, Perl ≤4 logo was worse

Downgoat

why would you type apple for APL

@Pavel eh not really

Pavel

@Downgoat Autocorrect

ASCII-only

also: charcoal really needs a logo

but idk what the logo should even be like. like what could even represent charcoal

Downgoat

@Pavel ok fine done

@ASCII-only ... a charcoal

ASCII-only

@Downgoat it's hard to find a good one of those to use as logo

Pavel

01:45

@Downgoat ty

Downgoat

@ASCII-only then make one

Still makes me want to barf though

Pavel

It's a beautiful butterfly

Downgoat

yes and sheep are beautiful animals

ASCII-only

@Downgoat what about lolcode

Downgoat

02:10

@ASCII-only what about it

ASCII-only

@Downgoat it has logo too

Downgoat

send an SVG file link

pls

ASCII-only

:| there's no SVG logo

Anonymous

02:26

@Downgoat Still need to address my review comments

ASCII-only

@Downgoat drive.google.com/open?id=1rc9He4nMNPQjleY8cDPFr0smwG7ywEUP

Stan Strum

03:05

@Downgoat Tf was a garbage entry. There's no compiler, it's fake.

Downgoat

oh ok will remove

Erik the Outgolfer

10:33

feature-request: hide voting buttons for your own posts, they don't work anyway

oh, and be able to edit and delete your own posts (may be harder)

Anonymous

12:17

@EriktheOutgolfer status-planned

Erik the Outgolfer

(I guess the other is already status-deferred)

Anonymous

status-goat

4

Anonymous

I can probably hide the vote buttons in about 2 minutes, actually

Erik the Outgolfer

just...make sure to not do it too generally :P

Anonymous

Actually, it's a bit more difficult than I originally thought, because the vote totals are tied to the buttons

Erik the Outgolfer

12:31

hm, doesn't seem like something good

ASCII-only

@Mego ?

oh

maybe do it with CSS and add .self or w/e to own posts

then like .self > vote-button { display: none }

Anonymous

I'll either do that, or modify the vote button template

Conor O'Brien

19:38

feature request: "following" a challenge in the sandbox, so that you could be notified of edits made to the challenge, comments added, etc.

Downgoat

@ASCII-only bad idea this is bad ux

Don’t hide things because they aren’t available

Pavel

20:07

SE hides the vote buttons on locked posts

But not on your own

Erik the Outgolfer

20:26

@Downgoat ...but at least make it obvious they aren't available before clicking

ais523

22:06

I think the site would benefit from automatic testing of answers at least being available, even if not enforced

among other things it makes questions easier to answer if you can just press a button and have a "works"/"doesn't work" verdict given to you by the site

I also think it would be beneficial to strongly encourage question authors to give a testing program (either testcases like in anagolf, or even better, a test case generator + verifier), so that answerers using the automatic testing can be confident that an answer that passes it will be a correct answer to the question

I can see potential exceptions here (especially cops-and-robbers)

so it probably shouldn't be mandatory, but something that we mention in the sandbox (or even help out with as sandbox commenters, the person with the idea for the question shouldn't necessarily have to do all the work of improving it)

Downgoat

22:22

What I'd optimally like to do is have better TIO integration so that in a click of a button you can see a program's execution results and we could do some macro things to allow users to create a test-suite but I have yet to design that.

though I'd likely only add a "Test" button, and I wouldn't want to indicate "working" since I don't want to make it harder to use esolangs

ais523

why would indicating that the program was correct make it harder to use esolangs?

because the programs are often too inefficient to test in an automated way?

quartata

@Downgoat I disagree. I find greyed-out buttons to be much more confusing than buttons that just aren't there

Downgoat

22:39

@ais523 I don’t want people subconsciously thinking answers that don’t explicitly have a giant “VERIFIED” check mark aren’t as valid

maybe a small ‘verified’ icon perhaps

ais523

I'd expect most correct answers to verify easily, unless they're too inefficient to run on any but the smallest inputs

Downgoat

also that's not accounting for the fact that many languages take in strings in different ways, numbers in different ways, arrays in different ways, etc.

quartata

How about just don't have anything next to programs that pass, and a little (needs review) thing on ones that don't

ais523

my suggested solution to that is a) we have a standard form for each sort of input (string, integer. array. etc.), perhaps JSON; b) for each language, we have a standard wrapper that converts our standard form of input into whatever's most reasonable for that language

Downgoat

@quartata definitely not

@ais523 i was thinking this. What I was thinking is we can have it so you enter wrapper code e.g.:

ais523

22:42

this prevents cheating via using different input formats for different problems within a single language, which is a common trick for shaving a couple of bits in a golfing language

quartata

Why?

Downgoat

let f= $code
f($input1, $input2)

ASCII-only

@Downgoat easy. list all possible I/O methods

Downgoat

and we can have different wrappers for different langs

@ASCII-only yay, who doesn't love giant dropdowns

quartata

I mean, that's what it really is. If a program passes tests then it's valid. If it doesn't then it might be invalid and needs review

Downgoat

22:43

lemme make a mockup

quartata

A check vs a cross does not really communicate that.

ASCII-only

@Downgoat it will be multiple drop-downs. And specifying type will be a text input

Downgoat

ok it will take a while to make a mockup

ASCII-only

@quartata exclamation mark then

Downgoat

what I am thinking then

quartata

22:45

@ASCII-only why not spell it out?

You could put "needs review" as a tooltip, I suppose

ais523

hmm… if we/the sysetm knows that there's an input on which the program fails, it'd be very useful to specify that

Downgoat

is we can have the challenge author specify input -> outputs, e.g. 'number' or 'text' inputs. And then we can have a GUI letting user's specify what format they want each input as. (e.g. unary, hex, etc.)

ais523

so that the answerer can go fix their program

Downgoat

@ASCII-only this doesn't have a great connotation

Erik the Outgolfer

@ais523 ah yeah, especially if a boolean testing function as well as individual test cases can be added, as well as human testing and human reporting (in case of non-determinism)

quartata

22:46

...an exclamation mark?

Downgoat

yes

ASCII-only

@quartata that works too. I guess if people really want we could have no text as just an option

quartata

It's not negative

Certainly less negative than a red X

Bonus points if you don't color it red.

ASCII-only

@quartata Orange one. Like those CI warning things or W/e

@Downgoat yes pls.

quartata

I was thinking yellow

But yeah

Somewhere in that range

ASCII-only

22:49

I said orang craziest for some reason I expected the symbol to be white >_> I guess that's not guaranteed though

Downgoat

super rough mockup

ASCII-only

@Downgoat is this for question

Downgoat

for specifying how test should be evaluted

lets say challenge was to add two numbers

and your code was (a, b) => a + b. And example challenge input is 3, 4 -> 7

ASCII-only

Where's octal

Downgoat

1 min ago, by Downgoat

super rough mockup

we'll substitute the placeholders

ASCII-only

22:52

Also should be text input and drop-down at the same time

Downgoat

and evaluate the program

@ASCII-only ??????

@ASCII-only yeah. likely a yellow-orange warning sign if you have tests, and they don't pass

ASCII-only

Some language have write a few number/string types

Downgoat

@ASCII-only we cannot support every single variation of esolang strings/numbers/array/dictionaries

so what we're best-case going to do allow a decent variation of input types

ASCII-only

@Downgoat we can

Downgoat

and if needed, the wrapper can include code to convert input to native types

@ASCII-only ok, then you please implement them

ASCII-only

22:55

Hmm.

Downgoat

@ASCII-only here are the languages: esolangs.org/wiki/Language_list

also: wikiwand.com/en/List_of_programming_languages

@ASCII-only and don't forget the solutions that take input as pbm images

ASCII-only

looks there's actually less than I expected, it's not that much more than TIO

Downgoat

and also please write a client-side converter for everything

ASCII-only

But the thing is we can only support the ones on TIO?

@Downgoat converter?

Downgoat

@ASCII-only to convert to/from images

and also pls be able to do image recognition

so image challenges can also be verified

ASCII-only

22:58

@Downgoat and other image file formats too, I'm assuming?

Downgoat

@ASCII-only yes

ASCII-only

@Downgoat recognition???

Downgoat

pls open PR with all the code when you're ifnished

@ais523 also we're 99% going to have catered support for challenge types. not like PPCG where there's one type of post so you could have a seperate "CnR" challenge that has its own UI and tools et.c

ais523

good idea

Downgoat

Right now there's a "challenge type" in the dropdown when creating a post on the top right but for now there's only code-golf

ASCII-only

23:03

@Downgoat do we need to support non TIO langs though

Downgoat

Nathan mentioned the idea of a KotH server so we'd likely have integration with that if it ever comes around

@ASCII-only yeah def.

ASCII-only

23:55

@Downgoat how would we run them though

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