This Is Fine

user15026

12:38 AM

@TimStone That's fantastic.

1:33 AM

Exclusive: Career security specialists rejected Kushner for top secret clearance but were overruled, from @strickdc, @peteralexander and me https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/officials-rejected-jared-kushner-top-secret-security-clearance-were-overruled-n962221

Tweeted by KenDilanianNBC on January 25, 2019 at 1:17 AM

One of 30 cases where the recommendation was overruled

Frank

@TimStone Trump gets who Trump wants, damn the security concerns.

It's not like they know what they're doing, anyways; the whole Russia investigation is a massive witch hunt!

GodEmperorDune

2:21 AM

@TimStone holy shit

@TimStone how does this compare to previous admins?

> it had happened only once in the three years preceding Kline's arrival.

not a good look

GodEmperorDune

2:35 AM

*taps mic* Utah just introduced anti-trans legislation to prevent people from changing the gender on their birth certificate. But here’s the kicker—and I guarantee a lot of you will yell “what the fuck?!” When you read it. #TeamLegal

Tweeted by AngryBlackLady on January 24, 2019 at 7:23 PM

The bill defines female as: “an individual with ovaries who is confirmed before or at birth to have external anatomical characteristics that appear to have the purpose of performing the natural reproductive function of providing eggs and receiving sperm from a male donor.“

Tweeted by AngryBlackLady on January 24, 2019 at 7:24 PM in reply to AngryBlackLady

Yuuki

So... "female" is defined by the ability to ~~bear children for males~~ get pregnant.

The Mattbat999

2:49 AM

Um no offense but isn't that how nature works in most, if not all, sexual species?

@Yuuki ^

Yuuki

What does it matter how it works in nature?

The Mattbat999

Because that definition of female fits?

GodEmperorDune

@TheMattbat999 gender and sexuality are not as clean cut even in nature

Yuuki

And there are far more a few species that can both reproduce asexually as well as sexually. And there are species that can undergo parthogenesis.

And there are also a not insignificant number of species that can undergo sexual transition as well.

@TheMattbat999 Again, what does that matter?

GodEmperorDune

yeah, there are some species who are specifically male as juveniles and change to female when older

Yuuki

2:53 AM

Why should I personally care how nature defines "female" and how does it affect me?

(Also, completely ignoring that "nature" is not nearly so monolithic or prescriptive)

The Mattbat999

@GodEmperorDune unless I am mistaken, usually there are only two genders in sexual-only species, unless a genetic mistake.

@Yuuki idk seems most people rely on science to explain everything else.

GodEmperorDune

@TheMattbat999 it's many more than 2, i'm struggling to find a link that explains it better right now

Yuuki

Mostly anecdotal, but from my experience, the kind of people who use science and "how things work in nature" to explain genders and sexuality are also the kind of people who believe in human exceptionalism.

If humans are so special, unique, and different compared to other species on Earth, then why are you using other species to justify how humans work?

GodEmperorDune

here we go, gender as a spectrum, with graphics

blogs.scientificamerican.com/sa-visual/…

The Mattbat999

I am simply bringing up the discussion.

Yuuki

3:00 AM

And I'm participating in it?

GodEmperorDune

sure, and we are discussing it

The Mattbat999

I guess.

Yuuki

If you're uncomfortable with the discussion, we can stop talking about it.

The Mattbat999

I would just like to see how others think on different topics instead of relying on media.

I am not uncomfortable, but I do have to go.

GodEmperorDune

cool, nice chatting with yout

Tim Stone

3:25 AM

This very good piece about the Cleveland Browns has an... interesting detail buried in it. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25797430/inside-cleveland-browns-front-office-where-hope-history-collide

Tweeted by charlierybak on January 25, 2019 at 3:19 AM

MISTAKES WERE MADE

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone i understand the mistake in searching, why did it take 20 minutes for them to remove it?

A private special education school in Massachusetts uses backpacks equipped with a battery and wires to shock misbehaving students with disabilities. Now the FDA plans to ban the controversial device. https://n.pr/2T89zxl

Tweeted by NPR on January 23, 2019 at 11:45 PM

bruh wtf

Tim Stone

wtaf

@GodEmperorDune I'm assuming no one thought to like, just search for something different

Amtrak is dismantling 30th Street Station’s iconic flipping board right now https://billypenn.com/2019/01/24/amtrak-is-dismantling-30th-street-stations-iconic-flipping-board-right-now/

Tweeted by billy_penn on January 25, 2019 at 2:02 AM

RIP

user15026

5:36 AM

@TimStone noooooo I always loved the idea of those flippy boards

user15026

I liked the sound

user15026

@GodEmperorDune WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK HOW IS THAT A THING

user15026

@TheMattbat999 oh noooooo not even a liiiiiitle.

GodEmperorDune

Oops wrong reply

@Ash I have no idea but it is extremely fuct

user15026

@GodEmperorDune WHAT THE FUCK

user15026

5:40 AM

ahem

user15026

Well, I guess they were correct on the "it will make you yell" because aaaaaaaaaaaaa

GodEmperorDune

Yeah that’s the transmisogyny one

user15026

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA

user15026

@TheMattbat999 heeeeeeck no that's not even true of people. (See this very good twitter explanation thread: twitter.com/sciencevet2/status/1035246030500061184?lang=en)

user15026

Also, I present to you, this bit of news:

user15026

5:42 AM

Holy shit: After being confronted with photos, Florida SOS "identified himself as the white man in blackface and red lipstick, wearing earrings and a New Orleans Saints bandanna, and falsies under a purple T-shirt that had 'Katrina Victim' written on it." https://twitter.com/SeanRossman/status/1088523339986014208

Tweeted by rickhasen on January 24, 2019 at 7:48 PM

user15026

Which I just WHAT THE HELLLLLLL

GodEmperorDune

@Ash yessss this is the thread I was thinking of but unable to find

user15026

(Okay, caught up now, carry on)

user15026

@GodEmperorDune googling "twitter gender animals" got it for me (because I was thinking of a different thread about how animals are weird about sex and gender but that one still eludes me)

GodEmperorDune

@Ash i searched so many "gender $NOUN" but did not do animals

user15026

5:45 AM

I don't know why animals worked

user15026

(also I reaaaally wanna find a cool set of comics that talk about the weird ways animals procreate, as a data point BUT THERE IS NO WAY I CAN SEARCH THIS SAFELY)

user15026

FOUND IT

user15026

@TheMattbat999 Further to your point that this is how it works for animals - oooooh no it doesn't always. See these comics: humoncomics.com/archive/animal-lives for details!)

GodEmperorDune

@ash you are a superstar with these links

user15026

Gender and sexuality are SO FASCINATING.

user15026

5:51 AM

(I like finding interesting things about them the way I like interesting things about language.)

GodEmperorDune

i am keeping these links because these convos crop up periodically and it would be great to have them at hand

user15026

Yay!

user15026

I am glad i could be a helper

Tim Stone

@Ash Yeah, especially since it was the last on the route. It was pretty cool! I appreciate the addressing of ADA issues though, but I'm also not immediately clear what the digital sign is addressing in that regard

user15026

6:07 AM

Yeah. I am not sure either especially because they mention a company that could make an ADA compliant flippy board

user15026

I wonder if something like this would work: youtube.com/watch?v=B-xL2-cSFZo

GodEmperorDune

8:24 AM

For those who aren’t quite sure why these media layoffs keep happening, or think “it’s the internet!” or “people don’t pay to subscribe,” there’s a lot more going on. Though that is part of that. Here’s a cliffs notes version - not exhaustive but it hits the highlights:

Tweeted by JeremyLittau on January 24, 2019 at 6:27 PM

Memor-X

9:24 AM

@GodEmperorDune plans to? why isn't it done already?

@TimStone why not all of them?

Kevin

@Memor-X because basic human decency is still assumed. As such it was thought not necessary to ban shock-collars for people

Buns Glazing

11:19 AM

DeepMind beat two pros at StarCraft 2

Trent Hawkins

@Ash Hey, they have an entry on Manitoba's garter snakes! Was always neat visiting the Narcisse snake pits in spring. Was hit-or-miss for school field trips though, as those are scheduled well in advance, and if the weather doesn't cooperate... no snakes.

Wipqozn

BBC News - Trump ally Stone faces seven charges
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47002713

3

Wipqozn

11:53 AM

> The indictment includes one count of obstruction of an official proceeding, five counts of false statements, and one count of witness-tampering.

Wipqozn

12:15 PM

@GodEmperorDune The shareholders aspect doesn't apply, but having spent 5 years working at the largest independently owned newspaper in Canada I can confirm the rest of this spot on.

To add on to this it's not just that newspapers aren't used to innovating, it's that no one running them even knows how. The innovation in newspapers was all done decades ago by people long dead.

The folks running the show now just had to keep doing whatever the paper was doing before, without the benefit of the experience that came with acquiring that knowledge.

The part about news companies thinking the physical paper would stick around forever is also hugely spot on. The paper I worked at bought some ridiculously expensive printing press about 10 years ago, which they still haven't paid off, because they essentially thought the internet was a fad.

Additionally, up until a couple years ago, they were intentionally sabotaging their own digital product. Since print brings in more money they didn't want people to start switching from the paper to the website, so they'd intentional avoid improving the website so it wouldn't be a better experience than the paper.

Of course all this leads to is people stop using your product all together.

Buns Glazing

12:35 PM

DMX is out of prison today, new album in the works already, supposedly

Nzall

OMG

Actual picture of the back of Roger Stone:

[taking a mugshot] “okay mr. nixon, please turn around”

Tweeted by adamsteinbaugh on January 25, 2019 at 12:17 PM in reply to adamsteinbaugh

Roger Stone literally has Richard Nixon tattooed on his back

Wipqozn

Canada unveils new immigration pilot for rural and northern communities cicnews.com/2019/01/…

Nzall

2:11 PM

Former Trump Comms Director Scaramucci leaves Celebrity Big Brother ahead of first eviction, lasts shorter than his time as Trump Admin Director

Nzall

2:54 PM

Right now.

Tweeted by MrDanZak on January 25, 2019 at 2:40 PM

Yeah, you read that right: on the day Roger Stone is arrested for various charges, Fox News reports on a mildly funny coincidence on a TV show

Nzall

3:06 PM

BREAKING: FAA says it is halting flights into New York's LaGuardia airport due to air traffic control staffing issues. http://cnbc.com

Tweeted by CNBCnow on January 25, 2019 at 2:54 PM

BradC

@Nzall that's... going to escalate this shutdown pretty sharply

Unionhawk

ATC general strike 2 but also, @RobPortman resolve this by next week I have a flight

BradC

3:25 PM

@Nzall I also have to imagine that this isn't the only airport where this might occur. And when it happens at an airport that is the only one (or the major one) to serve its metro area, what then?

SeaTac? LAX? STL?

What would you do, divert all incoming LAX flights to John Wayne in Orange County? Line up all the planes on the taxiways? Drive them over and park them at the Orange County fairgrounds?

Tim Stone

LATEST: Steve Bannon is the “high-ranking campaign official” referenced in Mueller's indictment who spoke with Roger Stone about damaging information about to be released by WikiLeaks, according to a person familiar with the matter https://bloom.bg/2FZded1

Tweeted by business on January 25, 2019 at 2:35 PM

Ahhhh that's the good stuff

BradC

So, I didn't scroll back up, but did we already talk about this BOMBSHELL that broke last night?

Exclusive: Two security specialists rejected Jared Kushner’s top secret security clearance over concerns of potential foreign influence, but were overruled by a supervisor, two sources familiar with the matter told @NBCNews https://nbcnews.to/2G0MVD6

Tweeted by NBCNews on January 25, 2019 at 2:14 PM

> Kushner's was one of at least 30 cases in which Kline overruled career security experts and approved a top-secret clearance for incoming Trump officials despite unfavorable information, the two sources said.

ONE OF AT LEAST 30!!!

And not just "despite an incomplete investigation" or something benign (but still concerning), the approvals were granted despite unfavorable information.

Tim Stone

We did, but it's still absurd today

BradC

@TimStone There ya go. That's how to get Congress to act; don't let them go home.

GodEmperorDune

@TimStone its unclear why tho, is it trump flying out or more air traffic control slowdown?

Yuuki

3:38 PM

@GodEmperorDune I don't think airspace would be shut down completely if Trump flew out.

They'd clear sections for sure, but not the entire airspace.

Tim Stone

It depends what they actually shut down. It's possible they just extended the restricted zone buffer?

Like a lot of DC is already restricted airspace to begin with

BradC

Just rang the regional FAA office to try to confirm this and was told most staff are on furlough and there's no one for me to speak to https://twitter.com/MikeDorning/status/1088812282807767048

Tweeted by davidmackau on January 25, 2019 at 3:06 PM

^ ironic

Tim Stone

I'm deleting the DC tweet over concerns of it's veracity

FAA tells @NBCNews that the air traffic control centers that are affected are the "en route" centers in Washington, DC, and Jacksonville, Florida, creating a ripple effect to air traffic at airports like LaGuardia in New York City.

Tweeted by NBCNews on January 25, 2019 at 3:38 PM in reply to NBCNews

Maybe that was the confusion

GodEmperorDune

4:07 PM

There’s a whole genre of Reddit posts where teens ask how to get vaccinated without their parents consenting. Just. Just so you know, that’s a thing.

Tweeted by andrhia on January 25, 2019 at 2:41 AM

Ugh this is fuct

The ground stop at LGA has been lifted. Average delays for inbound flights is 86 minutes. Delays get much, much worse at LGA for a summer thunderstorm or winter snowstorm https://www.fly.faa.gov/ois/jsp/adv_oisedit_dis.jsp?number=60&day=01252019&gstop=-1&gdp=110365

Tweeted by ethanklapper on January 25, 2019 at 3:44 PM in reply to ethanklapper

Nancy Pelosi on the Roger Stone indictment: "It is very interesting to see the kinds of people that the president of the United States has surrounded himself with." Via AP https://t.co/Dlo1QQOL7a

Tweeted by kylegriffin1 on January 25, 2019 at 4:10 PM

Yuuki

@GodEmperorDune For something less fuct, there's a whole subreddit dedicated to really wholesome posts from people with kinda messed up usernames.

GodEmperorDune

@Yuuki \o/

Mad Scientist

@GodEmperorDune Just read up on this because I was curious, and it seems that if the child is judged to be able to understand the decision properly, consent from the parents isn't required in Germany.

Yuuki

Mad Scientist

and there is at least one court case that judged that vaccinating against Tetanus after an injury is valid even over the direct objections of a parent, because of the threat of harm if no immediate action is taken.

puzzlepiece87

4:19 PM

Fun science: how far could ancient people actually throw their spears? Let's find out!

Plus lots of completely made up stereotypes about Neanderthals busted

Come for the spear-chucking, stay for the millenia-too-late social justice xD

Yuuki

Were Neanderthals capable of persistence hunting?

I have to think so, given that they're hominids.

puzzlepiece87

I don't think that's answered in the article, but do you mean hunting a single animal for more than 1 hour, potentially up to 48?

Yuuki

@puzzlepiece87 Pretty much, just jogging it down to exhaustion.

Unionhawk

Rather than sit down with faculty, Wright State University files unfair labor practices charges against AAUP-WSU

Yuuki

It's supposedly how humans (referring to hominid species) hunted before we used tools.

puzzlepiece87

4:30 PM

Indeed

Unionhawk

administration has also threatened students, saying that if they don't attend scab classes, their scholarships will be revoked

Yuuki

@Unionhawk oh that's fun

puzzlepiece87

@Unionhawk $1 fictional on WSU being for-profit. And Wikipedia sayssssss

Unionhawk

It's a public iirc

puzzlepiece87

Indeed you are right, $1 fictional lost

Love to be both an institution founded to serve the public and to act like scumbags at the same time

GodEmperorDune

4:40 PM

@Yuuki some indigenous groups still do it

Yuuki

I don't know of any for-profit universities named "State University".

@GodEmperorDune Yeah, I watched a nature documentary awhile back on it.

Unionhawk

arizona state was I thought?

hm no

GodEmperorDune

@Yuuki yep, it comes up in the "humans as literal terminator" tropes too

Yuuki

It's fascinating because I wonder if we evolved certain mental capabilities because of that hunting method.

Like memory and imagination to help with tracking.

We definitely evolved certain physical traits, like hairlessness and more sweat glands, to facilitate persistence hunting.

But I'm wondering if certain mental traits were selected for.

GodEmperorDune

can't speak to that, but it does seem different from many predator-prey relationships where the predator has burst speed but prey has endurance

@Yuuki it's an efficiency of walking upright on 2 limbs vs walking on 4 limbs

in more shutdown news, workers are not showing up to the IRS

"unpaid workers did not show up for work" https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/01/25/least-unpaid-irs-workers-did-not-show-up-work-broad-shutdown-disruption-hits-tax-agency-according-house-aides/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.5aab93c80b36

Tweeted by crampell on January 25, 2019 at 4:47 PM

Unionhawk

4:52 PM

"I've got a severe case of fuckyoupaymeitis"

Interestingly, "american public university" (which just sounds like a front) is for profit, not public

GodEmperorDune

Roger Stone was just released on a $250,000 personal assurance bond. He does not have to put up one penny. Just to promise to pay that amount if he does not return to court. Meanwhile, my clients are held in jail on $500 bail they cannot afford for stealing a bar of soap. https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1088833785880301568

Tweeted by DrRJKavanagh on January 25, 2019 at 4:48 PM

cash bail can get into the sea

and in better news

Gov. Cuomo just signed GENDA and a conversion therapy ban into law. Here's what both laws do: https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/albany/2019/01/15/new-york-update-laws-protect-gender-identity-discrimination/2574328002/

Tweeted by JonCampbellGAN on January 25, 2019 at 4:49 PM

puzzlepiece87

@Yuuki Oops yes I'm dumb.

Yuuki

@GodEmperorDune "GENDA" sounds like a New Yorker saying "gender" while crossing the street and almost getting hit by a taxi.

puzzlepiece87

@Yuuki City animals are smarter on things that facilitate city survival as compared to their rural counterparts.

GodEmperorDune

@Yuuki with the requisite hand & arm gestures

Wipqozn

5:05 PM

@GodEmperorDune Gotta love it when there's different rules for the rich

Yuuki

@Wipqozn Surely the man who has the money to buy a plane ticket to a country without extradition agreements is the lower flight risk.

SaintWacko

@GodEmperorDune Eeey! I'm GENDA heah!

puzzlepiece87

5:22 PM

@Yuuki Yes though no-fly and cash bail are different things.

Wipqozn

@Yuuki Most definitely

GodEmperorDune

ah yes that famous gesture made by innocent people

Tweeted by bubbaprog on January 25, 2019 at 5:31 PM

(Pictured is roger stone who was arrested for numerous crimes and just got out on bail)

(Richard Nixon liked to make the same hand gesture)

Unionhawk

5:38 PM

stone was a nixon guy too

and also another example in the "the godfather is the #1 dumb guy movie" genre of guy

Tim Stone

He's got Nixon's face tattooed on his back

(this is not a joke)

Good story from @AthertonKD >The Pentagon flew as many domestic drone missions in 2018 as it did in the last 7 years combined https://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/2019/01/25/pentagon-drones-flew-11-domestic-missions-in-2018/#.XEtJNiX1IMQ.twitter

Tweeted by Oriana0214 on January 25, 2019 at 5:37 PM

BradC

@TimStone I mean, it is a joke, but its also true.

Tim Stone

Fair

BradC

Tim Stone

Senior administration officials expect @realDonaldTrump to endorse short-term funding bill to reopen government in next hour. Final details being worked out in WH convos now. Unclear if 2 or 3 weeks. Border debate will continue. Stress on Govt systems was increasing.

Tweeted by MajorCBS on January 25, 2019 at 5:39 PM

I'm not sure how it would be anything other than conditionless at this point but considering he could have done that to begin with, extremely rekt

Tim Stone

6:08 PM

Stone indicted. SHS says it has nothing to do with Trump and the president isn't hung up on the wall. It's Friday and there's a mouse in the White House . . . no seriously: @realDonaldTrump

Tweeted by BrianKarem on January 25, 2019 at 2:20 PM

It's funny because Roger Stone is, as emptywheel would put it, a ratf***er

WTF. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-24/how-period-tracking-apps-are-monetizing-women-s-extremely-personal-data

Tweeted by kashhill on January 25, 2019 at 6:12 PM

Ah cool, cool, very not morally bankrupt and creepy af

BradC

Republicans: unconditional support of their totalitarian leader:

Below is the text of the resolution the RNC is expected to pass overwhelmingly today at its winter meeting general session declaring its “undivided support” for the President. And here’s our report on the message it sends for 2020: https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/24/politics/rnc-closing-ranks-trump/index.html (w/ @JDiamond1)

Tweeted by betsy_klein on January 25, 2019 at 5:48 PM

Just passed unanimously by the RNC

Tim Stone

6:28 PM

lmfao

Cassidy (R-LA) from Senate floor on Saints-Rams game: "What happened in my belief and the belief of many was the most blatant and consequential blown call in NFL history."

Tweeted by CraigCaplan on January 25, 2019 at 5:43 PM

The government is shut down, holy hell

SaintWacko

@BradC Hahahahahahaha

Wipqozn

@TimStone What is even going on

Are they actually devoting floor time to that?

Tim Stone

Yes

MBraedley

I mean, yes, that was a horrible no-call, and it definitely cost the Saints the game, but it certainly doesn't need to be taken up by politicians.

Wipqozn

"Congressional leaders, Trump agree to advance three-week stop-gap spending bill to end government shut"... - Get updates at Reuters.com

@MBraedley Keeping in mind that this is in the greater context of their being a shutdown

user15026

6:37 PM

@TimStone This doesn't even feel real like what

user15026

what even

Tim Stone

Cassidy: "Football's more than a game. It is part of our culture and I would say the @NFL has a responsibility to the millions of fans across the country to ensure the integrity of the game and to answer these questions and perhaps a few others."

Tweeted by CraigCaplan on January 25, 2019 at 5:46 PM in reply to CraigCaplan

Which is, of course, nonsense

MBraedley

@Wipqozn To me, that context is unimportant, as it's something that shouldn't even be happening at any time. Like what are they going to do, launch a congressional inquiry into a single bad call?

Tim Stone

It's unfortunately not uncommon for people to bring really dumb shit to the floor here

Unionhawk

@TimStone if major garrett interviews an army captain, does the captain have to address him as a senior officer

thanks

Tim Stone

6:44 PM

Also this is obviously not news as it is the Onion but this could easily become news later

Like 75/25 Jr. actually did that, gave the computer kid thumbs up and then said "I'm in the clear"

A few weeks ago, I wrote about a $20,243 bike crash bill from Zuckerberg San Francisco General. In light of my story, the hospital is reducing that bill to $200. https://www.vox.com/health-care/2019/1/24/18195686/vox-zuckerberg-hospital-emergency-room-bill

Tweeted by sarahkliff on January 24, 2019 at 9:02 PM

~Magic~

Wipqozn

@MBraedley Its relevant to me since it demonstrates just how little the Senate seens to care about all the workers without pay, since they're wasting their time on this

MBraedley

@TimStone How many thousands of dollars has she saved patients just by asking hospitals to explain their bills?

Tim Stone

Good question, certainly a very healthy system that can just price adjust at that scale over the threat of bad publicity though

user15026

@TimStone Yeaaaah, that's the part that makes me go "okay but...how were you suddenly able to do that"

Tim Stone

A RNC member wearing a MAGA hat just took the floor to announce that they would always proudly wear the hat in support of "Donald A. Trump." Then corrected to "Donald J. Trump"

Tweeted by tparti on January 25, 2019 at 6:01 PM in reply to tparti

lol

GodEmperorDune

6:55 PM

@TimStone would star if I could

@TimStone secret Canadian, gottem

Tim Stone

Pelosi, asked how Trump will handle backdown on reopening government without wall money, gestures toward her office decorations: “we could plant these flowers along the border and he’d say, ‘I got my wall.’ “

Tweeted by JohnJHarwood on January 25, 2019 at 6:52 PM

BREAKING - THE DEAL: Dem source says leaders are zeroing in on... - clean CR to Feb 15 - *No wall $* - vehicle for DHS, border security conf bill - Senate votes first - backpay provision

Tweeted by LisaDNews on January 25, 2019 at 6:53 PM

user15026

@TimStone Clean CR?

Tim Stone

A continuing resolution, so basically "everything stays the same (as it was before the shutdown, funding wise)", clean being there's no added strings attached

user15026

@TimStone daaaang

MBraedley

@TimStone backpay provision? As in civil servants might not get it otherwise?

Tim Stone

7:05 PM

People who were furloughed did not work so while there's legal questionability of not paying those who were forced to they could technically not pay the ones that didn't, but they will because it would be insane not to

But also presumably this is saying the backpay should happen effective immediately, during this three week period

MBraedley

Well one would assume that should be part of the CR

Tim Stone

It could have been delayed until an actual funding bill was passed I guess, but that would have been crazy

Trump somehow still hasn't shown up to the Rose Garden to talk about this deal

Ah they finally gave a two minute warning, 41 minutes late

Reuters reports Russia has sent as many as 400 mercenaries from Wagner to Venezuela to defend Maduro. I believe this is known as doubling down on your investment https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-russia-exclusive/exclusive-kremlin-linked-contractors-help-guard-venezuelas-maduro-sources-idUSKCN1PJ22M

Tweeted by maxseddon on January 25, 2019 at 5:38 PM

@TimStone checks watch It's not even like he has anything else to do

"We reached a deal, blah blah blah", then off-prompt

Trump immediately ad-libs a second sentence: "As everyone knows, I have a very powerful alternative. But I didn't want to use it at this time. Hopefully it will be unnecessary."

Tweeted by ddale8 on January 25, 2019 at 7:17 PM in reply to ddale8

MBraedley

7:20 PM

@TimStone "Mr. President, I don't want to be rude, but the reason we write your speeches is so that you don't say something idiotic."

Mad Scientist

@MBraedley Miller writes some of those speeches, so the reason can't be to avoid moronic and racist statements

Tim Stone

So yeah, this was basically what the Senate passed in December before Trump decided to throw a fit so real good progress we've made here

Bipartisan conference committee will review border security, says @POTUS.

Tweeted by W7VOA on January 25, 2019 at 7:20 PM in reply to W7VOA

puzzlepiece87

At least it's giving people 2.5 weeks to receive a job offer and leave with their backpay.

Tim Stone

"After reviewing the facts it turns out the wall is still dumb and racist who knew?"

He's also said that the walls he wants to build are not medieval walls, they're smart walls

🤷‍♂️

He's brought up the duct-taped women being kidnapped again which is...not how that whole issue works

I assume this is extremely off prompt at this point

The Mattbat999

May I ask how a wall is racist?

user15026

7:29 PM

@TimStone this sounds like a great threat

user15026

@TimStone sigh

user15026

@TheMattbat999 because he only wants to keep out the icky brown people.

BradC

@Ash great threat. "the best"

user15026

(Okay yes I know I am being overly reductive but...I don't think I am wrong)

The Mattbat999

@Ash has he said directly to keep a certain race out?

Tim Stone

7:30 PM

TelePrompTer has now frozen as Trump does extended riff on duct taped women,’accounts that trafficking experts say aren’t grounded in reality.

Tweeted by maggieNYT on January 25, 2019 at 7:26 PM

Did he just say human trafficking is as bad as its ever been in the history of the world?!

Tweeted by RellDMC on January 25, 2019 at 7:27 PM

user15026

@TheMattbat999 Is a direct quote the only way you'll believe it?

Tim Stone

This is just like a rerun of last year now

The Mattbat999

@Ash no I am simply asking.

Yuuki

You could always throw out the "Mexicans aren't sending their best people" quote.

Or "shithole countries".

The Mattbat999

Ok. I am simply curious.

user15026

7:32 PM

@TheMattbat999 We know, which is why people are replying to you, to answer your curiosity.

user15026

You asked, we answer :)

Tim Stone

The wall is a solution to an exaggerated problem and focusing on it only makes sense if you want to use the spectre of bad "others" (in this case Central/South American people) as a tool for support

The Mattbat999

@Ash ok

Yuuki

@TimStone It's barely even a solution.

user15026

@TimStone Also, the fact that he's walling the bottom and leaving the top alone is also kinda telling

user15026

7:34 PM

Like he's not going OMG THOSE CANADIANS

Yuuki

@Ash To be fair, he is going OMG THOSE CANADIANS but for different reasons.

user15026

@Yuuki well, yes

The Mattbat999

I understand the need for border security but also see that just securing the South is weird.

user15026

but not in a "I MUST BUILD A CANADA WALL"

user15026

@TheMattbat999 There's a difference between border sec and "I am building a wall based on racist ideas of what actually happens at the border"

Mad Scientist

7:35 PM

@TheMattbat999 building reasonable barriers on the border in places where it makes sense, e.g. near cities is not racist. But that is already done and not what this is about. Putting a wall across the entire border doesn't serve any useful purpose, and Trump has used many outright lies and fearmongering about people crossing the border that are certainly racist

Yuuki

The lion's share of illegal immigration comes from people overstaying their visas, IIRC.

Tim Stone

I am curious if he actually believes the bit about the wall doing something to stop drug trafficking since it's manifestly untrue

Yuuki

And a wall does literally nothing to solve that.

user15026

@Yuuki Yep, they come in for legit reasons....and then just don't leave.

Tim Stone

But he's also not very big on details so he could easily believe it would accomplish drug policy related objectives and give him an incidental win

The Mattbat999

7:37 PM

@Ash true.. personally a full wall does seem excessive, but at the same time not everyone should just waltz in without permission.

Tim Stone

The threat: "Really have no choice but to build a powerful wall or steel barrier. If we don't get a fair deal from Congress, the govt will either shut down on Feb. 15, again, or I will use the powers afforded to me under the laws and the Constitution...to address this emergency."

Tweeted by ddale8 on January 25, 2019 at 7:36 PM in reply to ddale8

Followed by him just walking out without taking questions

Amazing

user15026

@TheMattbat999 but here's the thing....they're generally not doing this.

user15026

As @Yuuki said, most of the people who are there illegally came there legally and then just overstayed the visa etc.

Yuuki

It's not like border crossing stations don't already exist.

user15026

Or they're showing up for asylum etc, and it's their right to show up at the border and request that.

user15026

7:39 PM

@Yuuki Border control is a thing.

user15026

@TimStone Anyone know what said powers are?

The Mattbat999

@Ash hmm...

Yuuki

@Ash He possibly means declaring a national emergency.

He is incredibly fixated on this wall though, moreso than he normally is.

Tim Stone

Yeah, that

Yuuki

Makes me think it's a misdirect.

MBraedley

7:41 PM

@Yuuki Basically every DACA recipient ever.

Yuuki

Or some kind of delaying tactic.

user15026

@TheMattbat999 Hm?

The Mattbat999

Well then first a more percise measurement of illegal migration should be taken (by a non-bias party) then whatever comes out of that, certain measures should be taken.

Yuuki

@MBraedley That's not DACA recipients, IIRC.

user15026

@TheMattbat999 Pretty sure that's already been done.

Yuuki

7:41 PM

All DACA recipients are born in the US.

user15026

(at least informally.)

Yuuki

Their parents might have overstayed their visas.

MBraedley

@Yuuki No, if they were, there wouldn't be a problem because they'd be US citizens

The Mattbat999

@Ash well I mean you can always do it again.

Yuuki

Oh wait, I'm thinking of something else.

user15026

7:42 PM

@Yuuki I thought if they were brought illegally as children that's how they counted for DACA?

The Mattbat999

I don't mind immigrants, just people not asking first is all.

user15026

@TheMattbat999 And prove the same thing we already know?

The Mattbat999

@Ash I guess.

user15026

Trump has his ideas on how this works, they don't match reality, and honestly given trends finding more proof and numbers isn't likely to sway him

Yuuki

The immigration process is incredibly misunderstood. There is no "asking first" process, IIRC.

user15026

7:43 PM

@TheMattbat999 What do you mean by "don't ask first"

Yuuki

You don't just go to the nearest US embassy and say "I'd like to live in the US, please" and they put you in a line.

user15026

(Sorry, all this is just....really funny to me as someone going through immigration right now (admittedly, Canadian, but still) - people have so little idea how it actually works.)

user15026

@Yuuki Yeah, that's super not a thing.

The Mattbat999

@Ash as in just walking over

user15026

(Could you imagine if it was?)

Wipqozn

7:44 PM

@Ash aka all the people that scream the loudest about immigration

user15026

@TheMattbat999 That's not a thing! Like it's super not a thing. People don't just walk in.

user15026

(And if they do, the numbers who do so is very very very low)

The Mattbat999

@Ash ok.

Wipqozn

Legal immigration to Canada is very difficult, so when people scream about it I'm just thinking "You clearly have no idea how immigration in our country works at all"

user15026

@Wipqozn nods

user15026

7:45 PM

@Wipqozn It's like when people get mad at America and go "I'm moving to Canada" - good luck.

user15026

You can't just show up here either!

Yuuki

Yes, there are many ways to get into the US. The most accessible path is the work visa, but that requires you to be in contact with a company that is willing to fork over a lot of time/money to sponsor you. Plus you need to be working in specific industries to be considered.

Wipqozn

@TheMattbat999 Most illegal crossing that happen occur in tunnels that go under the ground, which a wall does nothing stop. And those tunnels are used for smuggling in drugs, not for smuggling in people.

and the people smuggling in drugs aren't coming to the US to live, they're dropping off then going back.

Yuuki

It's not accessible at all to many prospective/willing immigrants.

Wipqozn

the concept of "people are running over the border to live!" just isn't true at all

GodEmperorDune

7:48 PM

The people smuggling drugs most often do it through existing checkpoints

Yuuki

Really, having some kind of immigration lottery system that anyone can sign up for might actually help, tbh.

The Mattbat999

@Wipqozn hmm ok

Wipqozn

@GodEmperorDune I thought they were using tunnels more in recent years? My information could be outdated by this point.

Either way, a wall does nothing, and stopping drug smugglers is completely different than trying o handle illegal immigration.

GodEmperorDune

@Wipqozn there was a huge tunnel network that was busted about a decade ago, it came out in the el chapo trial that his network was having people go through the standard border checkpoint crossings

Wipqozn

@GodEmperorDune ah okay

GodEmperorDune

7:50 PM

pri.org/stories/2019-01-17/…

Wipqozn

Also, something else to be completely clear on, is that people coming up to the border and requesting asylum / refugee status is completely legal. This is re: the "immigration caravan" Trump and the GOP have been trying to fearmonger people with.

GodEmperorDune

> A high-tech border fence constructed in Arizona long before Trump’s inauguration has proven virtually useless in stopping drugs from crossing into the US: Mexican smugglers just use a catapult to fling hundred-pound bales of marijuana over to the American side.

ah they were using tunnels too

user15026

@GodEmperorDune THere's always a way! Walls are easy to get around.

GodEmperorDune

> Officials have discovered about 180 cleverly disguised illicit passages under the US-Mexico border. Many, like the one Guzmán used to escape prison, are equipped with electricity, ventilation and elevators.

Yuuki

@GodEmperorDune Why spend time and effort building tunnels when you can just use money to bribe border security?

Wipqozn

7:52 PM

@GodEmperorDune Okay but they were just one of many methods used, got it.

GodEmperorDune

> Over the past decade some 200 employees and contractors from the Department of Homeland Security have accepted nearly $15 million in bribes to look the other way as drugs were smuggled across the border into the United States, The New York Times has reported.

user15026

@Wipqozn Yep, you can totally do that. That's how that process is supposed to work!

GodEmperorDune

@Yuuki they did that too

user15026

@GodEmperorDune Yep. The human element is great - people can be bought.

Wipqozn

@Ash Yup, and that @TheMattbat999, is why this whole thing is just based in racism.

user15026

7:53 PM

The wall is entirely a racism fueled hate mongering money pit that is solving the wrong problem.

Wipqozn

Yes. And to be clear, there's nothing wrong with wanting to curb illegal immigration and have folks going through the right pipe... I'm 100% for that.... but that's not at all what's going on here.

Yuuki

It also doesn't even solve the wrong problem.

Wipqozn

Illegal immigration is just the smokescreen the party is using to refer to all immigration, so they can claim they're not racist

but also you achieve the above by improving your legal immigration process, not by building a wall

user15026

@Yuuki True, it's a bad attempt even at that

Yuuki

It's probably the inner conspiracy theorist in me, but I still think the wall is a misdirect. An economically horrible misdirect that is causing large amounts of actual harm to real people, but that seems to be how the Trump administration does misdirection.

Tim Stone

7:56 PM

Pelosi, in her lunch briefing, was absolutely biting when it came to her assessment of how McConnell had handled this entire process https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-caves-ends-longest-government-shutdown-in-history-without-his-precious-wall

Tweeted by samstein on January 25, 2019 at 7:42 PM

user15026

@Yuuki Misdirect of what?

user15026

@TimStone I barely know who she is but lately every quote I see from her is just....*kisses fingertips*

GodEmperorDune

@Ash she is quite fierce

Yuuki

@Ash That's what I'm wondering. My gut reaction is the Mueller investigation. The wall and immigration always has been one of the cornerstones of Trump's policy but I never felt like he's had tunnel vision on it to this degree.

puzzlepiece87

@Ash @Yuuki @Wipqozn Thanks for your work in explaining, I appreciate your patience and earnest efforts.

user15026

7:57 PM

@GodEmperorDune So I have noticed!

user15026

Someone wanna catch me up on who she is exactly please? (Sorry that I have to ask)

Yuuki

@Ash Pelosi is the current Speaker of the House, she leads the Democrats in the House of Representatives.

user15026

@Yuuki Ah, cool beans.

GodEmperorDune

@Ash she also grew up in the era when the most common response was "who's gonna do that? you? a woman?"

Yuuki

She was also Speaker the last time the Democrats held the House, during the Obama administration.

user15026

7:59 PM

tries to remember the role of the Speaker of the House, fails

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