Hello and welcome to IPS, Pedrino! Have you spoken to the other students in your office about this behavior? It might make it easier to address it as a group, if it bothers them too. — Em C ♦ 43 secs ago

Hi Cyndie, I'm so sorry your ex keeps ignoring what you've said. I'm afraid that if he's disrespecting your clearly stated boundaries there might not be a great solution.. does your brother calling him out get him to stop? Is it an option for you to not be present during his visits, or have visits somewhere he wouldn't try this? (sorry if that's a dumb question - not a parent myself!) — Em C ♦ 1 min ago

Are you properly divorced? The best option: don't be there when he is visiting your daughter, depending on your country you should be able to set rules with a lawyer. — TransientEntity 20 secs ago

I'm not sure if these are the only rules. If they are, I believe they are being enforced selectively. I posted a comment asking the author of an answer for clarification, about an assumption he made. It was deleted. I posted it again (thinking I had just forgotten to post it, since, in my mind, it was the perfect use for a comment), and it was promptly deleted. — forest 14 secs ago

When you write that at the end of the evening $10 were missing - did you not collect tips that made that amount? — Bernhard Döbler 1 min ago

@MikeWaters that's a good point, thank you! — Juliana Karasawa Souza 30 secs ago

agree, put the notes somewhere until the end of the transaction — WendyG 1 min ago

I can vouch for the 'keep money apart until after you've returned the change', that was going to be my answer too ;) If you want to, you might add something about the importance of documenting in 'he said, she said' cases for the 'screw you over deliberately': We knew exactly which customers tried to trick (new) employees into giving too much change/accepting unacceptable returns and we communicated that within the team. — Tinkeringbell ♦ 29 secs ago

Can you also give some more details of what you have done on this issue before posting on the forum? — Juliana Karasawa Souza 1 min ago

I am suspecting racism here, playing the national anthem on loop all day sounds very aggressive, nobody does that — WendyG 1 min ago

In addition to the previous commenters, it might be nice to be a bit more clear on who you're planning to interact with. We can help you here with the behaviours you use when interacting with people, but who you're interacting with will have an influence on potential answers. Are you planning on taking this up with your fellow students first, on confronting the professor directly, or are you thinking of involving a third party (if so, who)? This is a choice you're going to have to make... — Tinkeringbell ♦ 1 min ago

How do you know the other persons identify themself as men? — QEDemonstrandum 2 mins ago

Was it necessary to stop the manspreading because there was not enough space or simply because you don't like it? — XtremeBaumer 1 min ago

@XtremeBaumer They were invading my personal space (or the other woman space in the case were I was just a witness), so I wanted them to stop — Ælis 37 secs ago

@Boodri "A has specifically come to me to tell me they’re planning to invite B rather than simultaneously inviting us both and letting B decline. But A wouldn’t ask me to pay anything, just let me know the situation and I end up back in my habit." Sounds like A knows that they don't need to ask you to pay anything. If you said "Sorry. I'm busy that day, but you two have fun", would A pay for B, or just cancel the whole thing? — Chronocidal 1 min ago

I am not a waiter, but I see waiter and other staff who handle money doing this a lot. In addition, if the music is not to loud, you can say how much they gave you. — QEDemonstrandum 43 secs ago

Who sat down first? — XtremeBaumer 6 secs ago

@XtremeBaumer I sat down last and seating somewhere else wasn't an option — Ælis 1 min ago

I would have been ready to ask those people verbally to stop taking so much place, but all the phrasings I could think of contained a high risk of creating a conflict. What phrases did you think about? — XtremeBaumer 28 secs ago

@TransientEntity - OP doesn’t state they were married. Secondly, if you really believe a man needs a contract not to touch someone against their will, that is messed up. Lastly, even if such a contract existed, that is not an interpersonal solution. — AsheraH 8 secs ago

This question might be better suited at Parenting. — David K 1 min ago

@AsheraH, her ex's behaviour is messed up. That's why actions against a messed up person are proper advice here. — Hans Janssen 1 min ago

Are you perceived as male or female? And, are you saying this to someone who looks like a male or a female? Also, do you use this on train, theater or subway? — Ælis 1 min ago

@XtremeBaumer Something like "Excuse me, you are taking all the room." — Ælis 1 min ago

@forest I'm assuming you're talking about these three back to back comments you made on the same answer? (1, 2, 3) If you want an explanation for that specific instance, I'd advise opening a new meta question and tagging it deleted-comments. — scohe001 1 min ago

I strongly disagree about hitting them with your handbag or umbrella. In many parts of the world, that is assault. You don't have the right to assault people because they annoy you. — Hugo Zink just now

Asking "what should I do?" or "should I ...?" aren't fit for this stack. The only thing we might be able to help you with is how to talk with your son but it looks like you need more advice than just that. I agree with David K that parenting.SE might be a better fit for you situation. — Imus 2 mins ago

To accuse men only is unfair. For taking RER and Metro everyday, I can assure a considerable amount of women are bagspreading, as much as men are "manspreading". Truth is, in RER seats are too tight and it would require to be very thin to not touch each other. Normal weighted people would still be accused of fatspreading. — Sqaq 41 secs ago

It shouldn't matter what you are or where you ask. I as a man, am always open to make some room if someone asks for it (given its possible and they aren't rude). I only push back if I myself don't have enough space to sit comfortably or they don't intend to actually use the space for themselves but rather their bags — XtremeBaumer 7 secs ago

Non-profit organizations may be able to help as well. So as well as going to Child Protective Services, one could go to SOS in the United States. SOS is a great resource for domestic concerns like this. — Lux Claridge 37 secs ago

Have you tried just an "excuse me" as you sit down, to alert your seatmate they need to make room? — DaveG 30 secs ago

@Sqaq I am indeed in Paris — Ælis 46 secs ago

@DaveG I don't think so — Ælis 1 min ago

I like your explanation about why the OPs first 2 attempts don't work so well and your proposed solution, but could you perhaps add some more concrete examples of when such nicer phrasings were used on you? — Rainbacon 1 min ago

@Rainbacon Valid request, but don't really have any more to say then people asking nicely the couple of times during my 5 year commute to work by bus having the effect of me giving them a bit more room. — Imus 58 secs ago

@XtremeBaumer The question is about a situation where a passenger occupies more than one seats worth of space. If I can accommodate my feet and a bag within the foot space logically associated with the seat I occupy, it isn't for the person occupying the adjacent seat to decide that their desire for comfortable seating trumps my need to comfortably accommodate a bag within my own space. — Spagirl 7 secs ago

What type of pants do you wear, that you suffer from heat accumulation? — Bernhard Döbler 1 min ago

' that seems like a fair trade-off. A bit of your personal space vs a bit more heat from uncomfortable position on my end.' I'm not sure you understand what a trade-off is. This is your balancing of things that make you uncomfortable. It doesn't seem to take the other person into account except as something you would rather wasn't there. You seem happy to be the arbiter of what should be comfortable for the other person, while rejecting the idea that they may have a view on your need for comfort. — Spagirl 11 secs ago

We have a strict comment policy on IPS, accepting only those which ask for clarifications or suggest improvements. In your case, it seemed you challenged OP's opinion, which you can do of course... as long as it's in an answer and that you explain why they should review their point of view. — avazula ♦ 18 secs ago

For anyone looking to answer, it seems these are the two comments OP made: 1, 2 (the latter being the one about Paris being unsafe). — scohe001 1 min ago

@BernhardDöbler Even wearing shorts on an average heat day I'll feel uncomfortable. At work I'm often one of the first to wear shorts when everyone else still wears long trousers. I'm often self-concious about leaving sweat stains on my chair when sitting "normally" when visiting people ... and I'm not even exagerating about it here — Imus 1 min ago

@Spagirl That's exactly what a trade-off is. I know I'm invading their personal space, and yes I can only guess how hard that is for them, just like they can only guess just how uncomfortable it is for me to take less space. As long as they don't ask me for more space, my best guess is the only thing I can go by to find a balance between what I think their discomfort is for smaller personal space then they like on the one hand and my own issues on the other hand. — Imus 36 secs ago

@Ælis If gender doesn't matter, why does it matter what they're perceived as? Get your head out of your ass, lol. — ell 44 secs ago

Imagine you are next to a person who is even taller, or runs even hotter, and they said to you, "You want your WHOLE seat's worth of leg room? You only care about yourself! The fair compromise would be for me to take only SOME of your space, but not quite as much of it as I would prefer. Everyone has to give a little, here." — Meg 7 mins ago

+1 for the therapist suggestion. I can also see my husband and I in this interaction. If we hadn't sought counseling I don't know if we would still be married. Irritations like this do not die down on their own, they multiply as one irritation leads to another. A professional can help you develop habits and coping strategies that don't push each others' buttons. — Francine DeGrood Taylor 11 mins ago

Is use of "manspreading" necessary here? It's a marginally loaded term (not worth getting into here, but it sets some people off), and the gender component doesn't seem core to the question (as it's currently written). Is this question about people taking up too much space on public transit generally, or is it only about men doing so? — Upper_Case 40 secs ago

@Upper_Case There was a discussion about this in chat that might be helpful for you to read through. — Rainbacon 6 secs ago

TransientEntity brings up a good question, though. How formal is the agreement allowing your child's father to visit? Is it a court-ordered visitation agreement, or an informal arrangement you've both agreed to? And where are you located? The line I granted him the right to visit her daily is confusing me on these questions. — Upper_Case 2 mins ago

@Rainbacon Ah, it's already been discussed. The dangers of temporary comments! — Upper_Case 39 secs ago

@Ælis does it matter? I (male) have asked both men and women on public transit to make room. I've seen my girlfriend ask both men and women to make room. Why do you think there is a gender issue here? — pip install frisbee 1 min ago

@pipinstallfrisbee Gender might not play a role or it might. I don't want to take any risk with my safety — Ælis 52 secs ago

@Ælis If you're worried about your safety asking for room on public transit then trying to make the other person uncomfortable by touching them is almost definitely going to elicit a more negative reaction than "hi, would you mind moving over a bit?" — pip install frisbee 1 min ago

@pipinstallfrisbee It sounds like you have experience dealing with this - consider writing an answer? Comments are really only for requesting clarification or suggesting improvements to the post, not discussion. — Em C ♦ 53 secs ago

@Ælis If you feel that gender may not be an important factor, the question can be edited to be more general. The question is extremely specific about gender, as currently written. — Upper_Case 20 secs ago

@Upper_Case That because I believe that gender is a very important factor (but I might be wrong). Sorry if I wasn't clear. — Ælis 1 min ago

@Ælis No worries. But since pipinstallfrisbee explicitly asked why you feel that way, and your response was equivocal, your position it might be worth explaining a bit further (here in comments or in the question itself; I don't know exactly what pipinstallfrisbee is looking for). — Upper_Case 1 min ago

@Upper_Case I edited my question to try to make things clearer. I hope it's better now. — Ælis 1 min ago

Related: What distinguishes a true, but negative, description from a judgment? Which are acceptable? — scohe001 just now

What exactly do you mean by "manspreading to a woman". That makes it sound like it's a very intentional act that is intended specifically to encroach on someone's space, which is not a way I've heard the term used before. — Rainbacon 22 secs ago

@Rainbacon I don't know how to describe it better. I never saw a man having to face another man manspreading. However, I often see woman having to face a man manspreading. — Ælis 1 min ago

This is easily the most provocative and sexist thing I've seen all year on all the internet, and ironically you are asking how to get people to act more respectful and less sexist. — Raditz_35 1 min ago

@Raditz_35 If this is the most provocative and sexist thing you've seen on the internet lately, can you point me to your frequented sites? It sounds a like a far calmer and kinder place than my experience of the internet... — Meg 1 min ago

@meg or people in general perhaps. I think it's a part of growing older, getting a job and a family and in general less time to waste. You don't have to dig through the comments section of the latest Hillary Clinton vlog actually. — Raditz_35 1 min ago

For the record, I am a man, present clearly as a man, and I have dealt with other passengers (of both genders) spreading into "my" space on public transit. This problem is not as 1-dimensional as the OP's personal experience may suggest. I don't know that that has any bearing on the question, as the asker seems interested in this specific subset of spreading behavior. These details are irrelevant to the situation of people spreading out too much, but the question is about a specific case. — Upper_Case 1 min ago

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because this is a phrasing request. — Kat 1 min ago

I, for one, am very interested in the question posed in the update section. How do we handle askers who are obstinate, for a lack of a better word, on a specific word change? — Lux Claridge 1 min ago

Hi Will, welcome to IPS! Can you explain more why "just tell him / keep telling him" is your recommendation? If it doesn't work the first time and he is a danger, why keep doing the same thing? When could OP tell if it is appropriate/necessary to escalate or change tactics? — Em C ♦ 1 min ago

When I know I won't annoy people, I "manspread", and I don't find this term offensive. My right to take as much as I want of available space stops when someone comes close. Yes, it targets men, but, hey! I've seen too many of us doing that. With no respect. And when women bagspread, it's often because some ***** takes advantage of a crowded bus/metro to "glue" a woman. Is this attitude a matter of gender ? Guess so... Offensive? Not to me. Either way. Just a way to explain/describe a behaviour. — OldPadawan 1 min ago

@Meg Assume you're standing in an overcrowded bus, the larger person will simply use up more space, because they are larger - and that is fine. Seats are an implicit separation of public space into zones. If there is enough space it's totally normal to and respectful to consider these zones to be assigned completely to the person occupying the seat. But if there isn't it's natural to share according to needs. Same reason we let pregnant women and old people have a seat, because they have different biological needs than the rest of us. Same goes for large persons. — Frank Hopkins 1 min ago

@Meg obviously this goes both ways, i.e. making more room as far as possible when someone feels uncomfortable mentally, which is a similar real-world aspect that can mean the person needs more space allocated than average Joe. It's unfortunately (in this situation) not as easy to see / non-verbally communicate. — Frank Hopkins 17 secs ago

@Ælis I share your discomfort with the knee-to-knee touching. Just giving my perspective from buses in USA: those who "manspread" usually do it involuntarily and indiscriminately to passengers of all genders. I'm guessing in France this is very different, because you say you've never seen men's knees touching on public transport, but I see it here all the time. Do the men spread their legs only once you sit next to them, or only just before you sit? — Sam 55 secs ago

@LuxClaridge We remain calm, and chat a bit more, and we might get there eventually. At least in this case we did, which is great :-) — Tinkeringbell ♦ 54 secs ago

@OldPadawan I think the more general question isn't to decide whether manspreading is offensive or not... but more about what to do with questions that use language that generates a lot of people discussing, saying their hurt or that the language isn't hurtful to them... And are basically just shorthand for something that can be described with more neutral words ;) — Tinkeringbell ♦ 1 min ago

@DaveG I readded the gender tag: As OP is perceived as a woman, and they're specifically asking about interacting with men because that makes them most uncomfortable/unsafe, the tag is valid. — Tinkeringbell ♦ 24 secs ago

@Sam I'm not talking just about knee-to-knee touching. If the legs are in parallel I'm fine with that (because there isn't much you can do). I'm more talking of a case where someone is spreading there leg in a "V" shape like that forcing the other passenger to take less place — Ælis 1 min ago

@Tinkeringbell It just feels like this question is being very tightly constrained to fit exactly one person, the OP, when in fact it's a more general question. I've certainly had to deal with other people (men and women) uncomfortably occupying space on public transportation. If I posted pretty much the same question it seems like it would be a duplicate, no? — DaveG 38 secs ago

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it appears to be a phrasing request. As explained in the help center, questions should instead focus on how to generally write or decide what to say. — Em C ♦ 1 min ago

@DaveG I don't feel just taking out the gender tag will generalize this question though: the body is pretty clear about their nervousness speaking to male strangers, and this being an issue for them only with men so far. I feel that adds enough of a gender dynamic here to leave the tag. If an answer works for more than one gender, that's fine, but that doesn't invalidate the tag... — Tinkeringbell ♦ 39 secs ago

@Ælis Is manspreading the force or the position? I.e., if a row of men have parallel legs and knees touching -- where if one man left those adjacent would spread into the open space -- are they all manspreading or none? Depending on your answer, asserting yourself over your legspace combats or eliminates manspreading entirely. — Sam 1 min ago

@Sam I'm sorry, I don't understand your question ^^'. If it can help, I have no issue with people spreading their legs (in V shape or other) when there is no one around — Ælis 18 secs ago

@OldPadawan It's not totally on-topic, but as I've encountered the term "manspreading" is strictly negative, and not something a person can do without infringing on someone else's space. But regardless, my question is about what we should do when people raise concerns over terms that they find offensive. A given user not personally feeling offended by the term doesn't affect that. Someone might describe a particular woman as "a shrill, hysterical shrew", claiming that it's just a thorough description. I think that that phrasing is inflammatory and not good for IPS. — Upper_Case 27 secs ago

@tinkeringbell : clearly understood it that way! To me, the word isn't offensive and could be used without twisting around :) the act as described isn't nice, I agree, but the word?! — OldPadawan 1 min ago

@pipinstallfrisbee Tbh, I don't really feel comfortable with telling my manager anything else than necessary. She is not exactly a trained waiter too and gives enough hard time everyone anyways. — friderik 29 secs ago

@Tinkeringbell ThisIsMe just posted a good solution to it that I might use... Thanks anyway, I really appreciate it! — friderik 1 min ago

OK, Em C. first up, I have not said @gleek should keep doing the same thing if she feels she is in danger. I am saying she should not feel compelled to give any explanation for stating that she cannot be this guy's love interest. That is all she needs to say. If he does not accept this, then clearly he is not her friend. I am suggesting that if he pressures her for an explanation she should not give one. That just prolongs the situation and plays into his hand. Of course, if he insists on getting an explanation then it is time to get away from him. She is not in a relationship with him. — Will Barrows 20 secs ago

Hi and welcome to IPS! Please take a minute to read our citation expectations. Answers on IPS need to include backup in the form of either personal experience or references, rather than guessing at what might happen. Have you actually used this approach before, and if so could you give some context for the setting and outcome? You might find How do I write a good answer? helpful too. — Em C ♦ 1 min ago

Agreed that most likely the person isn’t even aware of the problem. So even just smiling and saying “Hi, mind if sit here?” would get the pint across just fine, probably ? — Alex 24 secs ago

Sorry I think I didn't explain that well. The second-to-last paragraph (and your comment) seem to say "if he doesn't understand / accept your rejection, he can be a danger" - to me that implies "you should only need to say this once". But then the last sentence suggests that if he doesn't accept it, try saying it again, which seems to be a contradiction (or at least, unsafe according to your earlier statement). That said I think the part of your comment about "then it is time to get away from him" is what I was getting after, if you'd like to edit in that info :) — Em C ♦ 11 secs ago

@Kat are you still on the vote? 3 edits have been done since. — ankii 1 min ago

I would like to question the simply smile part first. Is it a good idea for females in public transport to smile before asking and sitting? Things may vary for countries. Also, I assume that Ælis is more concerned about when they're sitting and someone spreads the legs. So this is not applicable when they're already sitting. — ankii 1 min ago

formal beginning <attached is what you requested > thank you or regards, name — ankii 16 secs ago

Hi Em C. Editing my comments would make your comments look awkward. I trust people to read the whole thing and see that I don't advocate staying in a dangrous situation. I certainly don't advocate escalating the situation or playing tactical games. — Will Barrows 1 min ago

We can clean up the comments afterwards, no worries! The important part is to make sure all the relevant information is in the actual post (which is what the "edit" link goes to - comments are meant to be transient and can't be edited after 5 minutes anyways). BTW since I see you're new, you may want to check out the tour and How do I write a good answer? since they explain more about how this site works. — Em C ♦ 32 secs ago