→ 194 messages moved to Trashcan

@SevenSidedDie ?

@Gallifreyan The majority of the messages driving that conversation were suspension-worthy. Trashing the whole thing is cleaner than deleting the ~90 offending messages and having a conversation filled with holes and responses to the deleted messages.

@SevenSidedDie but maybe since there many other moderators already involved and the messages were not deleted?

i highly doubt "the majority were suspension worthy"

@Skooba Involved moderators are often encouraged to leave it to other moderators to handle, so that in itself doesn't indicate anything.

@Skooba For reference, verbally abusing fellow chat members can easily be suspension-worthy.

~90 messages of it is definitely suspension worthy.

Well, there's no way to assess that now, is there? I stand with other users n saying that maybe, just maybe, one shouldn't do other mods' jobs for them. It leaves the mods placid, and makes the chatters feel invaded when off-site mods come in and fix stuff. I recognise that your intentions were pure, but in the light of the whole "making chat homey again" schtick, stirring this pond may not have been the best idea. Especially given the factors that got Mos nuked.

@Gallifreyan Remember that the hostility to chat mods — the attitude that we should stay away and not do our jobs in SFFs chatrooms — is explicitly one of the things that management has said is no longer welcome in chat. Management has communicated to us how to do our jobs — you're not management and shouldn't be trying to dictate to mods, especially contrary to management. If chat denizens feel invaded… they need to adjust their attitude to avoid another repeat of Mos and its fate.

aren't all mods chat mods though?

Maybe reconsider what begins a stirring: is it moderators moderating, or is it users pushing back?

Yes we realize at the end of the day "its not our site", but why is there always a "Huh, why are you users upset" reaction when moderators and "management" make unpopular decisions, at time contrary to their own policy

Mods were here and they were moderating. I think it's over_moderating that is stirring. I would like to hear from _our mods, @Randal'Thor and @Null, that those messages were delete-worthy. And I definitely do not want someone I do not know (even a mod) to come over and start doing stuff (even in good faith).

the excuse "management can make and change policy at any time" is just like a kids saying "its my ball and i'm going home"

@Gallifreyan Like it or not, any mod is entitled to moderate any chatroom.

I'm not sure why SSD felt the need to delete a conversation which was already over and had been actively moderated by local mods throughout, but as a blue he's within his rights to do so. Complaining about it is only going to lend weight to the opinion that all of SFF chat is opposed to off-site blues.

and that mods are basically untouchable, above criticism, and can act unilaterally. I can understand CM's being given that authority, but not an elected moderator

Since the 'management" is fond of parenting analogies, I'd like to point out that "parenting" another families children is not a wise thing to do.

if you don't want to be criticized by making questionable actions... maybe think or ask before doing so.

@Gallifreyan don't forget gardening

@Skooba We can act unilaterally. That's part of the powers we get as mods.

We're not untouchable or above criticism, but if you posted on meta asking for the contents of this room to be restored, I doubt the request would get much traction.

and my case is made for me

we really need to stop going on rants in SE chatrooms about the least offensive things mods have "done to us" lately

the deletion of this chat's transcript is entirely fine tbh

the only part of this particular "incident" that's not fine was some of SSD's comments just now being tantamount to "you're not allowed to criticize mods", although I doubt that's how he intended them to come off and it's still small potatoes compared to the stuff that drove us away from SE chat in the first place so I'm not gonna waste everyone's time by flagging them or anything

Entitled or not, having the power or right to moderate doesn't mean one should exercise it right away. Were not not going to remove Slytherincess from ROs? Maybe we weren't. I was totally fine with leaving her, because I think her occasionally dropping in and moderating wouldn't hurt anyone. Was this transcript offensive? Clearly not according to 2 mods who were here.

I don't object to its removal because I think something was lost, I am disheartened by it because it shows a lack of trust in SFF moderators' judgment.

It's not that you're not allowed to criticise mods. But the implication that off-site mods 'interfering' is a bad thing? That's a large part of what's caused the negative attitude towards Mos among mods across the network.

And yeah, like I said, I don't know why SSD felt the need to involve himself when the whole situation had already been handled by local mods. BUT, by saying things like "I definitely do not want someone I do not know (even a mod) to come over and start doing stuff", you're giving more weight to the opinion that SFF chat has this huge problem with not accepting off-site mods' moderation.